Bush In Ireland, again

by D Wed May 19, 2004 12:18

Sorry, it is also to be circulated amongst all those in the various networks who would be interested, and could mobilise othes for such.

by Public Enemy Wed May 19, 2004 12:30

Be it state hype or swimmie hype.

What happened to those 30,000 that GR predicted? What happened to GR?

by iosaf Wed May 19, 2004 12:47

Between 2001 and 2003, I developed the theory of civil disobedience and outlined the grounds for exercising what I termed "the right to exercise non violent civil disobedience". This theory was passed along to everyone, shared, taken aboard, refined, discussed. I am now working on "the rules of engagement", which shall be a theoretical base for repairing the damage done to the post War geo-political concensus.
As you know that damage has most become visibly done during the Bush 2 regime.

I have to issue to everyone who shall give voice or presence in protest against that regime, a "caveat", a warning.

Between 2001 and 2003, the lessons of civil urban mobilisation learnt in the period 1995-2000 gave us "patterns of engagement" with undoubted influence in the antiWar campaign 2002-2003 of which perhaps Ireland has been amongst those societies to enjoy the least benefits. I would recommend that all sections of what has to be admitted is a "small protester base" put aside their inter-rivalries for any "anti-Bush" "action".

The Theory of civil disobedience as developed by our "very broad band movement" does not as of yet share common ground with the "very narrow minded" Bush Regime nor it's "rules of engagement".

Ceasar is coming with his Praetorian Guard.

For once a "very old fashioned" walk and talk may be the way to go down a very bumpy road, and if that is the "direction" taken by the "very broad band movement", then it would be a very useful display of solidarity and "tranquility" if the Talk Talk @ the end was equally "broad band".

by D Wed May 19, 2004 13:14

I agree iosaf {however hard} that we need to try and put aside {even for a very short time} rivalries in relation to the Bush visit. It would be far better that Irish Citizens send out a loud clear message to the world that Bush is not welcome here.

Yet of course persons have differences but whether one goes to Shannon, marches through Dublin goes to the summit we all have something in common. We oppose Bush's visit, it is that message that we should seek on masse through whatever activities and protest we are involved in to send to the world.

As for the theory and practice of Civil - social dis - obedience I will leave for another time when I have a little more time for in depth discussion and the sharing of ideas. Davy

by Joe Wed May 19, 2004 13:20

It's unfortunate that Davy chooses to repeat the standard SWP line of not challenging the media sterotype of anarchists as 'violent foreigners' . The real story was that thousands did take part in a libertarian march and that the anarchists were neither 'violent' or (with a few exceptions) 'foreign'. Anarchists defended their freedom to protest when the rest of the left remained silent or even backed up such sterotypes. And many ordinary people joined us in doing so.

by d Wed May 19, 2004 13:51

Not sure what you are getting at?

I have said all the frenzy about anarchy was 'hype' by the media and state. I thought that would be self explanatory. Quote

'What the media had hyped up to be possible anarchy on the streets of Dublin as thousands of anarchists made their way to Dublin, was exactly that, - 'hype'.

‘The huge police {and also army} presence {along with the media hype} was in fact in itself a force of intimidation for those seeking to hold a - 'peaceful protest'

Joe also while thousands did take part, the state and media build up as I stated before was forwarded as so {‘understandable repression’ could be used} as has been used many times before.

I think you may need to read what I have actually written Joe, in relation to not challenging the media stereotype as in fact that's exactly in large part what the article is about, but maybe I have just picked you up wrong Joe?

by David Wed May 19, 2004 14:20

Putting aside our differences requires a trust that frankly isn't there anymore.

Why should anarchists trust the SWP to act responsibly when there is nothing to say that they won't act in the same way they've acted in every other interaction we've had with them for the last 3 years and longer?

What can we do to unify the movement that isn't just following orders from the SWP command if their leadership are totally unwilling to co-ordinate with us or to concede that their strategies are counter productive.

Anarchists are willing to do both, build for a mass movement as well as pursue more intensive civil disobedience. There are proposals from members of the Grassroots and AWI to have demonstrations against Bush in the Week before his arrival to mobilise for Shannon and to highlight our oppisition in a way that will have a real effect, but the IAWM refuse to even talk to us or even talk to their own members about their plans.

I have not seen a single call for participation in an IAWM planning meeting for Bush. There have been some publit meetings, but these are all of the same format, speeches and about 10 minutes for questions to the table with no chance for members (if three are any left) to input into the decisions that are made.

by Badman Wed May 19, 2004 14:34

The tales of 'anarchy' on the streets was NOT HYPE. There was anarchy on the streets of Dublin - they were reclaimed by a leaderless group.

All of the SWP defences of Mayday have dismissed all reports of anarchists as 'hype' Now of course we know that the figures were way overblown in advance of the day, but you trots always neglect to mention that there were anarchists organising on Mayday, that there were foreign anarchists in Dublin, that it was not just hype. The SWP of course, would have us believe that anarchism is just hype.

by d Wed May 19, 2004 15:08

David thanks for some of the info will take it onboard

Badman in my view there was not anarchy on the streets but anarchists on the streets. You may hold a different view so we can differ on that.

So of course anarchists where on the streets as there where many others. I have never said otherwise as I had not forget to mention to others that anarchists where organising on Mayday as where others.

In fact when contacted by papers in the North I told of all events organsied as I will do {and have already done} in relation to the Bush Protests as I had already stated. I would do

Good to see {so far} that discussion is held in a decent way dispite our differences. Davy

by iosaf Wed May 19, 2004 17:06

I sort of reckon there will be more chance of scones and rice crispy cakes all round if we do less of the ci-vil-dis-ob-e-di-ence thing that day.
I have to applaud you on the new code by the way, it reminds me of how my mother used to spell words out at length when I had but four years, so I wouldn't un-der-stand what she was talking about.
If this re-vol-u-tion-a-ry new ruse doesn't get the better of that Bush and his Prae-tor-i-an guard, then I don't know what will.
There's a thought! Don't try and get the better of that Prae-tor-i-an guard. We trust you to keep your bolsheviks in order, Davy.

by depp Wed May 19, 2004 19:47

If SWP/ anarchists/ bolsheviks, whatever, can never work together, what hope is there that a coherent mass movement can ever arise and remove the elites from power?

What hope is there in Ireland if the usual suspects who go to demonstrate, who take action, who go to meetings are split so badly that violence between them is constantly threatened (here on theses pages for a start)?

If people can only work together with those who hold almost exactly the same beliefs as them, then this world is ssurely almost at the state of being a 'failed planet.'

Maybe what's needed is a new method of people engaging with one another, not just who's shouting the loudest, who's trying to be the cleverest.

What is wrong with groups and organisations here?

Why does the visit of Bush cause arguments and division?

The bigger picture, the longer term strategy demands that people work together not just during his visit, but long long after it.

by That was quick Thu May 20, 2004 13:51

The full article is in the Irish news today

by Anonymous Thu May 20, 2004 15:52

I have been arguing your point for a long time on this web site depp but not everyone agrees with it.

I believe one particular group have caused a lot of this disharmony but I don't wish to go naming specific groups. But this group I believe needs to do a huge amount of soul searching and self-examination. However I do not believe it ends with this group and all of us need to try and do more to work with one another where possible.

Nevertheless from what I know Ireland Anti-War and the Irish Anti-War Movement will work together to some degree. I certainly know that some of the main people behind the Ireland Anti-War Movement agree with the priciple of working together that you talk about.

by devil's advocate Thu May 20, 2004 16:22

"If SWP/ anarchists/ bolsheviks, whatever, can never work together, what hope is there that a coherent mass movement can ever arise and remove the elites from power?"

Swp/bolshevics are elitist, they seek to be the new, better power elite, so there's not much chance of working with them to "remove the elites from power". They simply want to replace one elite with another, while anarchists seek to destroy all elites. Obviously those two are incompatable. (see how many times i managed to say "elite" in two sentences? dedicated to lovers of bad English everywhere)

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for diversity of opinion but there's no point hoping we can come together when our beliefs are so fundamentally different. In relation to Bush, it's a good opportunity to work together, unfortunately though, as David has already pointed out, it doesn't look like that's gonna happen

by hustings with the winkies Thu May 20, 2004 16:53

come on we _have to_ work on this together.
The Bolsheviks have the printing facilities.
The magpies are getting the rafts together, and the oil and stuff, and the greens are doing the geiger counters for the civil inspection of the "BOAT".
meanwhile, you've got to get it together.
WE live in the time of psy-ops.

Ireland Unite For Bush!
A vote for Bush
is a vote For PEACE!
and withdrawl. he told Bertie so.
and José Maria.

by dunk - fuspey Fri May 21, 2004 13:20

fri 25th
vigil on lahinch beach,
a celebration of life
where earth meets water, next stop US/ bushville
playing with fire to spell out "bush not welcome"
dawn @ 6.00am when first rays of sun come up we depart, leave the water and follow the sun
20+ mile walk, lahinch to as close as possible to mister bush, front line of police.
stop and die in, arrive @ midday;
1 person for each casualty in iraq due to illegal war with black (body) bag over them- numbers and statistics dont convey true feeling- a road full of people in bags will- images are important

all can participate, hopefully all will
most will probably join in in ennis and walk the last few miles

it is celebrational
it is focusing on the fact that we are alive on this planet and things have to be done to keep it that way
we would like if mister bush changed US energy policy and supported the kyoto agreement

by Anonymous Fri May 21, 2004 16:06

Excellent idea Dunk! I think even David C. might give the thumbs up to this one! : )

Is 6 am the exact time ye intend on gathering? A road full of black body bags from Lahinch to Bush will have a huge visual impact. I love my statistics but as you say without visual and audio accompliment, statistics on their own are near meaningless.

Get onto all media sources about this.

Have you been onto Anti-War Ireland and the IAWM about this??

Any chance of fleshing this out a bit more and adding to it and turning it into a full article??

Regards,

by David Fri May 21, 2004 20:55

...

by Michelle Clarke - In search of Social Justice Fri May 21, 2004 23:45 michelle at eircom dot net Data merged with other Indymedia Message none

----- Original Message -----
From: michelle clarke
To: Justin Moran ; Aras anUachtarain
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:46 AM
Subject: Emailing: newswire



Michelle says Hello

This is a matter we on the Island of Ireland ought to take seriously, most particularly given the planned visit of President Bush to Ireland and his stay at Dromoland Castle on 26th June 2004.

People are alarmed.....The flights are one issue but also we must ask about the computer parts etc. used in the so called 'War against Terror', sourced in Ireland. Ratheon, based in Derry, is a worldwide producer of missiles etc.

We the people of Ireland, seek Peace on this Island, but must take account of what is happening to innocent people and children in Iraq contrary to the Rule of Law and the Geneva Convention.


A peaceful resolution is the way forward.....the process to achieve this requires action now.


Michelle Clarke




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printable version
with comments

SHANNON the TRUTH
by Tim Hourigan Friday, Jan 31 2003, 12:43pm
national / miscellaneous / news report

When, what and where to... US military flights.

Most of these are confirmed military flights, others need investigation. The number of flights is way over what the Government admits. and don't be put off by claims of "it's only going to Italy" A well worn flight path for the middle east war zone includes refuelling at Gander, Newfoundland, Shannon, Ireland, Sigonella (US Naval Air Station) in Siciliy, and then the Middle East... see Kuwait or Bahrain. Read this then ask more questions from the people who have misled you.
DATE ETD CARRIER DESTINATION
09/01/03 02:30 ATA Maryland, USA
09/01/03 02:40 ATA Cyprus
09/01/03 05:00 ATA Indianapolis, USA
09/01/03 11:30 N800PS Newfoundland
09/01/03 14:00 WORLD Cyprus
09/01/03 15:30 WORLD Georgia, USA
09/01/03 16:00 Evergreen Budapest
09/01/03 20:00 WORLD Georgia, USA
09/01/03 22:00 Evergreen Budapest
10/01/03 01:40 ATA Maryland, USA
10/01/03 09:00 N6015 Italy
10/01/03 12:00 VVRU740 Bahrain
10/01/03 13:00 Evergreen Budapest
10/01/03 15:30 WORLD Georgia, USA
10/01/03 17:30 WORLD Cyprus
11/01/03 01:30 WORLD Cyprus
11/01/03 06:00 Evergreen Hungary
11/01/03 09:00 NA1781 Maine, USA
11/01/03 10:30 N331P Parnu, Estonia
11/01/03 10:40 ATA Cyprus
11/01/03 15:00 JT940 Newfoundland
11/01/03 15:05 ATA Cyprus
11/01/03 17:00 N818LS White Plains, New York, USA
11/01/03 17:30 WORLD Georgia, USA
11/01/03 17:45 N601S Farmingdale
11/01/03 20:00 Evergreen CHARLESTON AIR FORCE BASE, South Carolina, USA
12/01/03 07:45 ATA Cyprus
12/01/03 14:00 Miami Air Greece
12/01/03 15:35 ATA Maine, USA
12/01/03 16:00 WORLD Cyprus
12/01/03 16:30 Evergreen KUWAIT
12/01/03 19:55 PA7198 KUWAIT
12/01/03 20:00 N80L Slovakia
12/01/03 20:00 ATA Maine, USA
13/01/03 01:30 Miami Air Greece
13/01/03 01:30 WORLD Cyprus
13/01/03 06:40 ATA Cyprus
13/01/03 07:55 PA7308 Newfoundland
13/01/03 09:00 N512C Luxor, Egypt
13/01/03 10:00 Evergreen Hungary
13/01/03 13:40 ATA Maryland, USA
13/01/03 14:20 Miami Air Maine, USA
13/01/03 18:05 WORLD Maryland, USA
15/01/03 02:15 ATA Maryland, USA
15/01/03 04:10 ATA Indianapolis, USA
15/01/03 07:00 N601DW Maine, USA
15/01/03 08:40 ATA Cyprus
15/01/03 09:50 WORLD KUWAIT
15/01/03 12:15 N888DH Maine, USA
15/01/03 13:00 ATA Maryland, USA
15/01/03 16:20 N1275R Teterboro, New Jersey
15/01/03 19:00 N2PG Budapest
16/01/03 00:45 ATA Cyprus
16/01/03 09:15 N110HA Maine, USA
16/01/03 11:00 WORLD Georgia, USA
16/01/03 11:15 ATA Indianapolis, USA
16/01/03 15:00 N765BC Keflavik Naval Air Station, Iceland
16/01/03 18:40 ATA Cyprus
16/01/03 19:30 EXS 6525 Germany
17/01/03 01:00 ATA Cyprus
17/01/03 08:30 ATA Maryland, USA
17/01/03 11:00 ATA Cyprus
17/01/03 11:25 Miami Air Maine, USA
17/01/03 13:00 NAVY 692 Brunswick NAVAL AIR STATION, MAINE
17/01/03 13:00 N376QA Newfoundland
17/01/03 13:00 N379QA Newfoundland
17/01/03 14:10 DOBOY 99 RAMSTEIN Airforce Base GERMANY USAF European HQ
17/01/03 17:00 PA7318 ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, MARYLAND, USA
17/01/03 18:00 N80L Slovakia
18/01/03 02:00 VDA 954 Gander, Newfoundland
18/01/03 03:05 N334JC Ben Gurion, Israel
18/01/03 04:45 N404AC Cairo, Egypt
18/01/03 07:25 SPAR 29 OFFUT AIR FORCE BASE NEBRASKA (Strategic Air Command HQ)
18/01/03 08:00 N604 Washington DC, USA
18/01/03 10:00 AMX 7201 Indianapolis, USA
18/01/03 12:30 N379P Washington DC, USA
18/01/03 14:45 N765BC Keflavik Naval Air Station, Iceland
18/01/03 15:00 AMX 7227 ILLINOIS USA
18/01/03 15:25 AMX 4115 Cyprus
18/01/03 20:00 AFGHAN AIR Turkey
18/01/03 22:30 AMX 4013 Maine, USA
19/01/03 02:30 ATA Maryland, USA
19/01/03 08:30 N765BC Keflavik Naval Air Station, Iceland
19/01/03 09:00 Miami Air Gander, Newfoundland
19/01/03 10:00 LOB001 Gander, Newfoundland
19/01/03 10:00 GOST580 Capodichino, Italy
19/01/03 10:45 ATA Indianapolis, USA
19/01/03 16:00 "National" Washington DC, USA
19/01/03 16:35 ATA Cyprus
19/01/03 17:00 ATA Maryland, USA
19/01/03 20:00 WORLD KUWAIT
19/01/03 22:45 ATA Cyprus
19/01/03 23:30 WORLD Cyprus

There are some other flights omitted that are still under more investigation...



add your comments

COMMENTS

show latest comments first show full comment text
# Title Author Date
1 a few explanations. Tim Fri, Jan 31 2003, 1:12pm
2 Aircraft @ Shannon Chcuk Yeager Mon, Feb 3 2003, 6:08pm
3 Couldnt have put it better Y Tue, Feb 4 2003, 11:13pm
4 American liberation Dead Shuttle Astronaut Wed, Feb 5 2003, 3:05am
5 Full of Shit johnway Wed, Feb 5 2003, 4:14pm
6 Full of Shit Johnway Wed, Feb 5 2003, 4:16pm
7 Ask G.W.Bush full of truth Mon, Mar 24 2003, 8:36pm
8 Airplane N379P Lasse Mon, May 17 2004, 10:15pm
9 Not only in Sweden, Lasse! Try Karachi too. Same plane, my friend! C Tue, May 18 2004, 2:10pm






printable version
with comments
> ]

by Bush Admirer Sat May 22, 2004 12:35

I'm a big fan of his, I think he's been a fantastic President. I especially like the way he angers so many lefty sandal wearing lesf-eaters. It will give me huge satisfaction to see him win by 57% this November.

I can't wait !!!!

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice Sat May 22, 2004 23:20 michelle at eircom dot net RESPONSE: Time to Say No to Bush Visit. Time to Ask Government to hear the voice of the people

Thanks for the reply.

I totally accept your choice within a democratic society!!!! but it must be democratic.

My voice is that it is time to question the behaviour of those who hold power in the US in relation to people who are vulnerable. It is time to stop plundering the resources of countries in the name of what is just.

I hope President Bush remains in office until November so that you can exercise your vote.

Going by the Cannes Film Festival outcome today and Michael Moore - you may just be out of luck!!!!!!

Quote from the The Little Book of Rebels -
New International

Appropriately my random choice turned out to be HOPE

'To be truly radical is to make hope possible rather than despair'

(Raymond Williams 1921-1989, Welsh Novelist, critic and founder of 'cultural materialism' approach)

How approrpriate, even if I say so myself!!!

by Kevin Walsh (Shitzu) - Social Justice Sun May 23, 2004 23:33 michelle33 at eircom dot net No to Bush Visit to Dromoland.

Hello to all decent Irish people out there

Many years ago I went to the US and worked as an Architect in New York, San Diego and Boston.

San Diego was unique - sunshine practically every day. I was asked to teach Irish history by a friend of mine, downtown San Diego. It wasn't long after the hostage affair in Iran when Jimmy Carter was President. I remember asking a question to a bunch of eleven/twelve year olds: What was their view on the Persian Gulf? One boy at the back looked at me and said: Is that a MacDonald's cheeseburger, Sir!

It was then I realised the perception of the American people. Anything outside of America is practically non existent in 80% of the populations mentality. But then the Twin Towers came (sadly). Instead of asking questions to their Government on Foreign Policy which created a monster like Bin Laden, they took the doctrine of Bush and Rumsfeld, of the Global Witch-hunt with Blair as the the poodle lagging behind.

Iraq is a modern day tragedy but this tragedy lies at the heart of the Pentagon and London. Now the truth is starting to hurt but sadly it also hurts Spain when over 200 people lost their lives and over 1500 were seriously injured and a change of Government took place in seven days.

Now I ask the people of Ireland, PLEASE WAKE UP. WE KNOW OUR HISTORY UNLIKE THE AMERICANS. WE KNOW ABOUT INJUSTICE. WE HAD OVER 700 YEARS OF IT.

My questions tonight are:

President McAleese is meeting President Bush in June. I ask on whose behalf - not mine I can assure you nor my family or friends. Do we not realise we are now a potential target because of the arrogance and stupidity of this twin government?

Another question:
Who actually is the Taoiseach of Ireland now. I know on paper it is Bertie - but the 'rothweiller' McDowell makes him look more like a 'poodle'. I ask this because in the last 6 weeks when Bertie makes a comment on the Peace Process, McDowell contradicts him, in Killarney and in Limerick.

I know Sinn Fein are not 'Pussy Cats'. If McDowell has nobody in court pre June 11th based on his allegations on IRA alleged fundraising for Sinn Fein and alleged smuggling, shouldn't the people of Ireland ask the 'Rothweiler' McDowell - Was this another PD ethical stunt pre the Election in June?

It amazes me how the PD's with 6 per cent of the vote, at Cabinet meetings, make Bertie look like a mouse going to a Cat's convention. Maybe now with Cecilia back and the Cobbler from Castleknock allegedly receiving post romantic counselling, Bertie will remind the Rothweiller who is the Taoiseach?

Now back to more serious business, as I write this contribution to Indymedia tonight, the Gardai and some members of the American secret service are visiting houses in a 5 mile radius of Dromoland Castle giving the residents instructions as to what they can and cannot do and taking all their personal details. Now I ask the question - Does this not remind you of Germany in the 1930's? In my humble opinion, McDowell, Bush, and Rumsfeld would not look out of place sitting beside Himmler and Mary Harner. Can people not see what is happening to our so called democracy? What is wrong with the Irish people - Apathy but sadly, we have lost our sense of outrage to the injustice in Iraq of the American War Machine, supported through Shannon. NOT IN MY NAME.

One more question: My friend Bengy, the Shitzu has asked me - Can somebody ask our President McAleese - On what agenda or mandate she is meeting President Bush on?

Some weeks ago on an RTE documentary I saw her husband (dentist) meeting Loyalists who since the cease-fire have committed between them 12 murders in the North of Ireland - On what mandate was Mr. McAleese meeting these people on. Was it regarding their detures? This country needs to wake up very soon.

Accountability, Justice, Equality, Humanity, - Where is the Disability Bill for our own people - the vulnerable. Let's not be fooled by Bertie and McDowell's smoke screens.

If you have read my contribution Thank You and Goodnight.

PS: Today myself and my partner Michelle went to Speakers Corner in Temple Bar. I am surprised the 'Rothweiller' McDowell hadn't the water canons there. We both really enjoyed it. MAY FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION FLOURISH IN IRELAND AND PLEASE SUPPORT TEMPLE BAR (2-4 P.M)

Kevin Walsh


Quotation: Little Rebels book
Ivan Illich (1926) Austrian born philosopher, theologian author of Limits to Medicine

Consumming Passions
'In a consumer society there are invevitably two kinds of slaves; the prisoners of addiction and the prisoners of envy'

by Northern Eye Mon May 24, 2004 00:09

It was twelve people they killed alone last year, not just since the ceasefires.

by Kevin Walsh (Shitzu) Mon May 24, 2004 14:38 mchelle33 at eircom dot net No to Bush Visit to Dromoland Castle 26th June

Well Done. 12 people 'Not since Ceasefire' but last year............refer Kevin Walsh article

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Mon May 24, 2004 23:14 michelle33 at eircom dot net

Michelle says hello

This time I am going to start with a quote which becomes a question to the reader!!!

'When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist'

Don Helder Camara (1909-99), radical Brazilian Catholic priest and Liberation Theologian.

What is happening in our two tier world? When do people begin to take responsibility for themselves and those who are vulnerable? When do we enforce that our politicians conform to Social Justice and Ethics, as a right to each human being on the Island of Ireland. They can't even yet guarantee 'rights' to people with disabilities.....the cannot commit to the promises made within the Belfast Agreement.

The Pat Kenny hour discussed a.m. non geographic imperialism and the US. In the light of the web, technology, organised education systems, this is a real probability......it is known as corporatism and who best but those in the arms and arms related industry to comprehend this methodology and also control it. It is interesting to note the shareholding portfolios of those in Governments.

I would suggest a little personal research never goes amiss. Raytheon, which is supposed to be the largest missile base, has its operations in Derry, Island of Ireland. The website is worth a look. It makes a human being feel very intellectually impoverished. Note: they give the information they choose, the users interaction is limited by their computer people's ability.

This weeks Big Issue has a good article by Ryan Cairns, title 'Too High a Price'. Ryan writes about the famous whistle blower, Modechai Vananu who walked out of prison after 18 years. We need people who make a stand for humanity, social justice, ethics etc. I suppose Mr. Gogarty and Mr. Gilmartin are the Irish Whistleblowers, that started the role....Well done to their respective conscience.

Ireland must make a stand and say to No to this visit by President Bush. Times are two uncertain presently as witnessed by the bombings in Spain and the Twin Towers.

I refer back to Kevin Walsh's Article and comments about President McAleese.......and Mr. McAleese. Has anybody a comment about this?


Michelle Clarke

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue May 25, 2004 02:31 micherlle33 at eircom dot net The Iraque War. The Implications in Ireland if President Bush visits in Ireland

We need neriously to promote an interest in what will happen Europer in the light of War Against Terror.

Ireland is vulnerable. We need foreign investment, and this can have a price i.e. the production of parts of military supplies and more importqantly the costs involveed in the flights over shannon.

Please note the Poughares Four Court case this week. They dismembered a plane ...... outcome arrest ........snf vhsthrd got

The views of the people count.

Let us work towards embracing peace and in an inclusvvive way.


Michelle Clarke

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue May 25, 2004 02:31 micherlle33 at eircom dot net The Iraque War. The Implications in Ireland if President Bush visits in Ireland

We need neriously to promote an interest in what will happen Europer in the light of War Against Terror.

Ireland is vulnerable. We need foreign investment, and this can have a price i.e. the production of parts of military supplies and more importqantly the costs involveed in the flights over shannon.

Please note the Poughares Four Court case this week. They dismembered a plane ...... outcome arrest ........snf vhsthrd got

The views of the people count.

Let us work towards embracing peace and in an inclusvvive way.


Michelle Clarke

by Michael - a citizen Fri Jun 18, 2004 17:47 mich_1967 at hotmail dot com

Bush is a hero of western civilisation. So far Bush has liberated millions from tyranny in Afghanistan and Iraq. Still the protests give me hope as the Irish left went bananas when Reagan came to Tipperary and then he won the cold war, simply by pointing out the moral paucity of socialism (that and outspending the soviets' pathetic economy). Does it never depress you that every argument you have, every position you take, is so easily defeated.

by Pamela Sat Jun 19, 2004 16:28

Reagan and the Bushes have managed to pull off the stunning victories of our times, defeating 'evil' empires and evil men, before heroically charging on to tackle the very concept of 'evil' itself!

But why, then, are so many Americans getting their heads sawn off?

'are you right there, Michael, are you right?' (do you think that you'll be home before the night?)

by Conor McGreevey Sat Jun 19, 2004 20:55

It's important that people kow that many, many people in Ireland support America in their struggle to bring democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan. In all fairness, the whole region needs a good kickstart, their religion is keeping them stuck in the dark ages.

by michael Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:13 michael.fagan1 at ntlworld dot com

this is probably not the right place for this request but does anybody know of any pro Bush demos? Somewhere we can go to show our support for the establishment of democracy in Middle east and afghanistan.

by michael Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:52 michael.fagan1 at ntlworld dot com

Population of the United States 293,027,571 (July 2004 est.). Number of US citizens executed by beheading by terrorist fanatics 3.