Nursing students march for entitlements

by EARLY CHILDHOOD STUDIER! Sun Mar 30, 2008 01:33

the one thing that i think nursing students should be entitled to is being involved as much as possible is placement allocations. with regard to social care/ studies ye get to organize ye'r own placement and understandably receive no pay for that. student nurses on the other hand have no choice with regard to their placement. Their names just go up on a notice board and they could be based absolutely anywhere - accommodation, taxi's, food etc.. is quite expensive for them as well as paying their college accommodation at the same time. a few of my friends are student nurses and i just cannot believe how tough it is for them and their classed as 'students'. crazy belief!!!!!!! sorry but no other students in other courses have it as tough. student nurses don't live the life other students do! i feel very sorry for them - ever been to a hospital and actually seen them work until they drop, coz i have and i feel empathy for them! regards.

by Cael - Sinn Fein Poblachtach Thu Mar 27, 2008 17:39

The majority of firms are indeed small outfits. Most of them are really just self employed people. I would not refer to these people as capitalists, as the vast majority do not make a living from renting out the capital they own, but by selling their labour - just as any worker. Indeed, most of these people do not have any capital but have debts instead.

You say that just a few Landlords are making a killing. Well, you are right, they are relatively few - but the killing they are making is so collosal that it drains all the rest of the economy of capital. 1% of the population own 36% of the useable capital, and as I have said, they are not investing it in Ireland - they are shipping what we are forced to pay them for land abroad. The apts and houses that workers are buying abroad is small change compared to what this 1% are spending, but I agree, it is still a problem. The trouble is that they see their "betters" doing this so they want to get in on the act. If it was the thing done to invest in Irish Industry, they would do that as well.

by Sceptic Wed Mar 26, 2008 22:15

Social worker: By definition you cannot be doing the same work as your colleagues unless all of you are doing entirely unskilled work. The whole point is that the more experience a person has the better they are at their job so how can someone on a college placement moan about not getting the same rate as someone with many years of experience? No point either in complaining about the time being in college. These days the returns to education over the long term are massive. The unlucky ones are those not in colleges at all. Moreover your primary degree fees are now abolished. You have little to give out about.

Student: Ditto applies to you The pay goes up rapidly from28K and anyway 28k is not bad for an entry level on an incremental pay scale with very favourable sick pay, maternity and pension arrangements as well as continuing education and development. Within a few years the native nurses feck off to Saudi or the US in any case and earn far more there on their Irish financed training.

Cael: Have a look at the companies office register – the vast majority of firms are very small outfits. Besides being asset rich in land or primary products like oil is not capitalism which is the application of enterprise to other factors of production. If a few landowners are making a killing it is not a reason to overturn the entire economic, political and legal order and replace it a neo communist and half baked “Éire Nua” notion. There are other ways of addressing the price of land issue if the people at large really wanted it. And its not just rich landowners buying property abroad. People of more moderate means do to – even some nurses. And why not – it’s a free country.

by Social Work Student Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:31

As a social work student I'd like to also contribute that social work students are paid nothing for their three month (pretty much full time) placement. On this placement we are doing the same work as out qualified colleagues. We are not paid a penny. On top of that we have essay's and part time jobs.

Social Work student's deserve compensation for the work that they do. It is a masters course and most have already done 3 years of undergrad or more and the masters is two years long. So I can sympathise and agree with the student nurse.

by student!! Wed Mar 26, 2008 00:10

i agree with you Sceptic €35,000 is not a bad wage for starting off! pity nurses don't receive that when they start off, instead a miserable €28,000 a year after a four year degree! one would be better off as care assistant and receive more or less the same rate, less responsibility and more importantly the same thanks! If one did there sums it would work out that being a care assistant would mean you be far better off than a staff nurse, by the time you add up all your expenses from college training.

by Cael - Sinn Fein Poblachtach Tue Mar 25, 2008 21:58

By the way, the typical capitalist in Ireland is not the kind of entrepreneurs you mention, but a few useless louts who have inherited land and are holding the rest of us to ransom with it. Do you imagine Irish Industry would be in such a pathetic state if all the hundreds of billions these parasites have sucked out of the Irish people was put to some good use. No, 1.2 trillion euro of it has been used to buy land and buildings abroad. Their frontmen in Fianna Fail have cleared the way for this massive rip off.

by Cael - Sinn Fein Poblachtach Tue Mar 25, 2008 21:50

Sceptic, 35K is not a bad salary if you dont need to buy a house in Ireland. If you do its sh1t. Drop the price of land and housing if you want us to start looking at 35K like it was something.

by Sceptic Tue Mar 25, 2008 20:41

Firstly 35K is not a bad salary for someone starting out and all are on incremental scales.

You are arguing on the basis of relativity – some other crowd have some concession therefore you must have it too. That does not establish a right or "entitlement" to such payments for yourself – it might constitute a basis for a claim which is different but it does not establish either the merits of such a claim or that the others having more should be having it.

Very few capitalist earn figures of the order mentioned. Most are small business owners with an asset like a van, or a shop or a taxi. Very successful business people have equity that can grow exponentially if a business is particularly successful. This is why Richard Branson and Michael O'Leary and their likes amass such wealth. These people have a rare talent like very successful sportspeople or rock stars. If one dislikes that one could abolish capitalism and institute a communist dictatorship as per the Bolsheviks but that idea has been road tested and found wanting. Incidentally many nurses go into business as pharma reps or nursing home owners or as self-employed agency nurses. Under normal career progression in the public sector a nurse at the rank of assistant director can easily earn 60k plus as well as unbeatable pension and sick pay benefits. They cash in well. They may do worthy work but their talents are much more commonplace than the Beckams of this world. Its reality.

by James - WSM Tue Mar 25, 2008 16:26

Sceptic:Greed is not confined to certain capitalists or landlords – unions can be greedy too and hold vulnerable people to ransom.

Yep, because workers earning around €35,000 are exactly comparable to capitalists who make tens, if not hundreds, of millions every year.

And of course nurses on an ordinary wage doing work that must be done are dentical to landlords who own dozens of apartments and whose daily slog is sadly unacknowledged by the the ungrateful public.

http://www.wsm.ie/public_newswire_1?topic=health

by An Banaltra Tue Mar 25, 2008 16:16

well then Sceptic could you explain why all other students are getting paid even though it is part of their training also? even med students get rent relief when they go on placement! its just us nursing students who get nothing and get sent to any part of the country for placement!!! business studies students, even Art's students get payment for placement. ..... need i continue?

cant wait to hear your response to this one Sceptic!!

by Sceptic Tue Mar 25, 2008 13:33

Are you now saying this is an equality issue? Anyway the other students should not be paid either if it’s just on the job training.

Cael: “nurses, who give their all for the benefit of man kind.”

This is a starry eyed view of nursing which nobody did more to undermine than nurses leaders themselves who insisted they were a “profession” not a “vocation”. Nurses are well remunerated public s sector employees – they exchange their labour for a salary like everyone else. It’s different if people are working for no payment in difficult circumstances or as a religious. No union has more avarice than the INO – they are always looking of more pay, shorter hours, going on strike ,working to rule and the like. Greed is not confined to certain capitalists or landlords – unions can be greedy too and hold vulnerable people to ransom.

by An Banaltra!! - none. Tue Mar 25, 2008 00:09

what good is any career without clinical placement. Just take students studying nutritional science - when they go on their clinical placement they receive payment! not much but it is much better then what us student nurses are getting!... The system is very unfair, why some courses receive payment and why others don't can be much debated!

by Cael Sun Mar 16, 2008 15:21

Sceptic, greed and opportunism are good words for the Landlord class in Ireland and their front organisations in Leinster House. They are not good words for nurses, who give their all for the benefit of man kind.

by Sceptic Sun Mar 16, 2008 15:02

University or IT its all third level. The issue of expenses and consultation as regards placements is a separate one from the payment of salaries for placements which is what is being “demanded”. Nursing is a good an often lucrative career and the State is already hugely subsiding the fortunate nursing students. A nursing qualification without clinical experience would be worthless. It is just greed and opportunism to be looking for salaries for what is not unpaid labour – its necessary on the job training.

by grá agam ar banaltraí Sun Mar 16, 2008 00:10

Sin mar bhí sé ag go leor de na boicht, nó gur cuireadh na banaltraí amach ar fud na tíre, ... Na banaltraí atá sa tír seo, tá siad lánoilte ar gach saghas.
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0040/D.0040.193111130004.html
Seosamh O Mongáin uttered those historic words in Dail Eireann in November 1931 back when only women were nurses & only nuns were bosses. Your profession has moved on, your vocation quite probably tickles the same bits of conscience & brain chemistry that ensure you keep at it. But in most other respects nothing much as changed. I like how you stretched the latest comment page with that long line of full stops...........................................................................................................................

that's stamina.
or speed. if you afford it on your wages. You're definitely not getting top whack Shannon charlie.

by student nurse!!! Sat Mar 15, 2008 23:19

i never implied that nursing was a university status. i am in an institute of technology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the apprenticeships was just a prime example i utilized. students studying arts, business studies various other courses receive payment.

we'r not looking for payment but maybe recognition! we have a duty to carry out and we as students are depended upon so much by other staff as every ward appears under staffed! this year for instance i arrived to college in September - had to pay my accommodation for the year €2450 to find out that my 7 weeks placement was in a different town whereby i had to get a b&b for 7 weeks costing me an additional €420, plus living expenses i.e. food, credit etc. for semester two placement i was also in a different town for 4 weeks of it costing me an additional €250.. all the taxis, buses etc still have to be included! between college, placement one needs to sign their 8 month contract or else have no accommodation for college. as supernumerary students i think we should be much involved in our placement as possible but we are not allowed as an allocation officer is employed to do so! but the one thing that stands out is that we are not appreciated at all! it costs us money to get up out of bed for work (not placement coz we are worked!) buy our breakfast dinner and tea there! one needs to have a substantial dinner to get them through a 12 hour day!

i will still admit that nursing is a vocation a career im glad i picked but it is quite clear why a lot of people are not staying in it because by year four i believe there will be some people sick of it! at this stage things can only get better for us students!!

by Cael - Sinn Fein Poblachtach Sat Mar 15, 2008 20:04

But Student Nurse, dont you know that we have handed over hundreds of billions of euro to a few landowners in the last few years? These landowners have sent that money abroad to buy foreign property to the sum of 1200 billion euro. Now, be realistic, a chara, how can we give all these billions to a few landowners and still pay you for looking after sick people?

by Sceptic Sat Mar 15, 2008 19:09

Apprentices are not university students unlike student nurses. “Student nurses” are not “nurses” as such but students of nursing with some clinical practice thrown in which is an essential part of the training. Student nurses used to work almost full time in hospitals until the nurses union demanded degree status for nursing. You cannot have it both ways – to be university students ands still be paid as if trainee nurses full time in a hospital. Also to be paid for a clinical placement is not an entitlement – it is a demand. An entitlement is a right – no right to such payments have been established.

Finally the UCD Students Union “represents” the 21,000 students at UCD in a very loose sense only. There is no right to opt out of union as I understand it. There is a core of activists and paid officers and a relatively small group of enthusiasts and student politics buffs around them. The majority of students are indifferent to their goings on.

by student nurse! Sat Mar 15, 2008 14:20

hi i am a nursing student attending a college in Munster. i am also of the opinion that nursing students are completely exploited. how come students doing other course get paid for their practical and theoretical study i.e. apprenticeships. even though student nurses do alot more placement then any other course. i think this needs to b be highlighted to the public. i believe that some Irish citizens are still of the opinion that nursing students are getting paid as they are not aware how much the system has changed i.e from old school to new school. And the health department are wondering why statistics show that there is a reduced number of newly qualified nurses working in their field!

i am only aware after reading this press article that students are going on strike. Are all other nursing students from other colleges going to be informed?

by Gideon Sun Apr 18, 2004 15:29

From experience it is usually the ones who continually need to emphasise their 'working class activist' credentials are the very ones who did things like attend a posh middle class school outside of their working class area or who become committee members of elite college debating societies when in first year.

by corrector Sun Apr 18, 2004 02:38

Reread what 'Dell' said.

"free hands kitt" should have read "hands free kit". Look at the order of the words

by ucd student Sat Apr 17, 2004 17:49

" hands free kitt" is a quote you gobshite and the press release is fine . It was in every paper, stuck up prick.

by Dell Thu Apr 15, 2004 16:58

"free hands kitt"
Aidan yu mean a 'hands free kit' *just one T*

The grammer on that press release is a disgrace, who ever wrote it up or approved it could do with a few English lessons.