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My life in the SWP: a memoir
 national |
anti-capitalism |
opinion/analysis
 Thursday April 01, 2004 14:11 by M. K. - None
When I jopined the SWP, the local branch, comprising some half-dozen members, was (rightly) pouring all of its energy into the newly emerged anti-capitalist movement. I made the decision to join quickly after starting my first year at college. Before this author relates the story of his own involvement with the SWP, let him give you one piece of advice: Kids, don't try this at home. As a Dublin high-school student, yours truly was a diligent reader of the left-wing press, both big and small, reliable and zany, thoughtful and dogmatic. As a result, he had honed his skills at being able to tell the real deal from the charlatans, and the committed from the merely cultish. Therefore, he knew what to expect from the Jehovah's Leninists, and joined them only out of curiosity, with plans to get out as soon as possible. The inexperienced and the less wary may be in for an unpleasant surprise, so be forewarned.
So why did I join an insular clique whose methods I found ineffective and often juvenile, and which I knew I would leave at the first opportunity?
To be crudely frank, I was curious. They claimed to advocate that synthesis of all militant movements for social change that socialists at their best have always promoted - a prospect that was, is, and ought to be appealing to many activists. One should never doubt, though, that the SWP's priority is not the support of all militant movements for social change, but rather the use of progressive movements as recruiting grounds for the SWP (a process which the organization's commissars see as ipso facto synonymous with "building the socialist alternative"). The few who stay in the group for more than a few months see the high attrition rate not as a sign that the SWP itself might be doing something wrong, but as proof positive that not everybody is cut out to be part of the would-be Vanguard of the Revolution. The result is the creation of the hardened cadres the group was designed to create.
When I jopined the SWP, the local branch, comprising some half-dozen members, was (rightly) pouring all of its energy into the newly emerged anti-capitalist movement. I made the decision to join quickly after starting my first year at college. It seemed the rational thing to do at the time for several interrelated reasons: most importantly, the minute I showed interest, I was besieged with demands to join. These were fast acquiring the irritating quality of a broken record, and as long as the expedient would do no harm, the simple desire to do what was necessary to shut them up was good enough for me. Second, I had a hunch that being on "the inside" would put me in a better position to do what I could to reign in the damaging tendencies I was sure the Trots possessed. In hindsight, I can't help but conclude that I was more or less correct in making the decision I did. Being a member, and an active one at that, allows you to see the logic behind the SWP's sometimes bizarre behavior.
Most have contact with the SWP only because of one of their vaunted weekly "public meetings"- you know, when they practically bathe their habitat in posters inviting the public to come hear the SWP's take on a particular topic of social, political, or historic interest, and end up invariably offering the same solution: Join The SWP. But beyond these, there are the "cadre meetings," which are members-only events where the apparatchiks see to it that the foot-soldiers are behaving in a manner conducive to "building" the organization. (Incidentally, while use of the verb "to build" is fairly common- especially on the left- in reference to parties and coalitions, the SWP has an inordinate fondness for the word. They build the SWP. They build *Socialist Worker* paper sales. They build "fightbacks." They build meetings. They damn well build near everything. Their use of the idiom has reached a point where it is devoid of content and is little more than a rhetorical device) The meetings are also intended to consolidate members' adherence to the theoretical line of the organization, which- despite the leadership's insistence otherwise- is more or less written in stone. Because the SWP is so small, those who disagree with one aspect of the line or another are not technically unwelcome in the organization, but when members voice these disagreements, the response of the commissars is to say: "Well, we'll have that argument." And they do not lie; the argument follows shortly. The understanding, though, is that those disagreements that do exist will eventually be pounded out of the deviationist, and that said member will eventually recognize the error in his/her thinking.
An arcane but illustrative topic is the SWP position on the Soviet Union. Here, as elsewhere, the group has a set dogma: unadulterated glorification of the early years following the Revolution coupled with unadulterated vilification of the years following the death of Lenin and the eventual expulsion of Trotsky. The position is free of nuance; all of the problems that arose during the early years are blamed on circumstance, and while the SWP admits that the Bolsheviks made "mistakes," they can acknowledge no fundamental problems with Bolshevik theory, practice, or organization.
Similarly, they acknowledge none of the positive effects of the later USSR on world politics (such as the fact that the Soviet Union defeated Hitler, or that its indispensable aid to the African National Congress struggle against apartheid were, on the whole, good things). Personally, I found the SWP position doctrinaire. But in any event, one would think that we could all agree to disagree, as the vast distance in time and the incredible difference in circumstances between Russia in 1917 and Ireland 90 years later would have rendered the entire subject sufficiently unimportant. Not so; anyone who has spent more than five minutes in conversation with an SWP member knows that they have the capacity to talk endlessly about the Russian Revolution and the necessity of accepting their assessment of its history. Granted, no historical event is entirely devoid of lessons for current practice, but no matter what a person's position on what happened in Petrograd in 1917, it should be obvious that Leninist theory and organization hold very little relevance for practice today. Tactics and strategy originally developed for use by a persecuted band of revolutionaries in early-twentieth-century Tsarist Russia would have to be altered unrecognizably to fit the circumstances of the 21st century Ireland. But the SWP does not recognize this fact, and that is the real reason for their obsession with the Defense of October.
The group makes no secret that its organisation is clearly to be modeled on classic Leninist lines, with an emphasis on the principle of "democratic centralism." This principle states that debate within the organization is to be unrestricted, but that once the entire party votes on a particular question, all members are obligated to defend that position in public as the position of the party. To a degree, this position makes sense; it is argued that at some point action needs to be taken without the group being hamstrung by infighting. But in practice, the result is even more infighting, as orthodox members sow suspicion of those who voice dissident opinions or who seem otherwise insufficiently committed.
And while the Trotskyite movement has always claimed to be a more democratic alternative to Stalinism, Trotskyite organizations have historically been plagued by factionalism to a greater degree than any other "democratic-centralist" movement of similar pretentions. Historically, those who have disagreed with a party line in some way have been expelled or forced to quit (usually with mutual accusations of counter-revolution) and subsequently formed their own organizations, which subsequently split as well, and so on.
"Cadre meetings" are festivals of both Maoist-style "self-criticism" and backstabbing of other left activists, as well as speculation on the loyalties of those members who do not attend them. In the case of suspect activists, without and sometimes within the organization, the term "middle class" and "petty bourgeois" get thrown around a lot. It would be too simple of me to point out the fact- and it is a fact- that those members who come from the most privileged backgrounds are the most likely to use this term as apejorative. The issue is not whether the SWP is itself petty-bourgeois; rather, the SWP is merely *petty*. That is why one shouldn't feel the slightest bit guilty about criticizing them. Granted, left unity is important, and we should never offer encouragement to the red-baiters and witch-hunters of the right. But the SWP has no problem with castigating other progressive groups for alleged inaction, nor does it hesitate to take a piss on any and all activists who do not meet the standards of this self-appointed Vanguard of the Working Class.
Red-baiting is a serious problem which has had disastrous consequences in Ireland, but the SWP belittles this terrible history by dismissing any and all criticism as "red-baiting ." Its members are literally unable to tell the difference between a statement such as "Go back to Russia, you commies" and a statement more along the lines of "Look, I don't want to buy your newspaper, I'm just here to support issue x." Similarly , even though the last thing the Movement needs these days is a lot of senseless infighting over who is or is not a Genuine Prole, the SWP uses the term "middle class" to refer not to a person's class, but to anyone who disagrees with the SWP, which through a dialectical process holds the *real* "working-class" position.
As with all sects, supreme emphasis is placed on the sale of the organization's newspaper. There is little I can say about this newspaper. For the most part, the Irish *Socialist Worker* is made up of exhortation, of exhortation, and of exhortation principally composed of crude slogans.
One of the more surreal moments of my SWP experience surrounded the sale of *Socialist Worker*. At one cadre meeting, we were discussing the reluctance of branch members to sell it. As you can imagine, I was one of the worst offenders: I would carefully hide my copies of the paper under my petition. After asking people to sign the petition, I would merely thank them, and they would generally be on their way. Rarely did I ever bother to make the pitch for the paper, and then only to placate a nearby SWP comrade. In any event, other members were somewhat reluctant as well.
The stories of SWP fanaticism and incompetence could go on, but by now the reader should have a sufficient understanding of the nuttiness of the sect. That does not necessarily solve the problem of how to deal with them, however.
In my personal case, I was the first to jump on a proposal by the SWP leadership that we initiate a broader coalition, Globalise Resistance, to incorporate all who were interested in acting in solidarity with the anti-capiatlist movement.. The SWP intended the group to be a front. The commissar told me flatly: "No, we don't do that," but of course I knew otherwise. I quickly realized the extent of the SWP's disengagement from reality. The SWP repeatedly suggested that "we" had to "give the lead," per their usual habit of thinking themselves the true leaders of the movement. But I left, I just had had enough.
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Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56After 27 years in the SWP Robinson noticed a group of cannibals and decided to try and recruit one of them. They ate him and suffered bouts of constipation for weeks afterwards.
The moral of this story is "Don't swallow the SWP!"
they wouldnt have such a bad reputation as they do..
They are nothing more than a bunch of vultures. They don't realise the concept of "quality rather than quantity"!
Unlike Her Majestys Socialist Party who refer to British Soldiers as workers in uniform. Also the SWP recognise the right of Nations to Self Determination. They dont want to reinstate British rule over Ireland like the SP do in the (CWIs brainchild) Federation of the British Isles.
Thats why the SWP welcomed the British troops into Ireland 'to provide protection to catholics' when the Militant opposed them? Troops out movement my arse. Most of them started out in the Troops In movement! Oh never mind, a few political somersaults later and the SWP are suddenly screaming hysterically to get the troops out!
I heard recently from several ex-IAWM steering committee members, that the two members who were expelled were referred to as having "mental problems" by one of the SWP sc members. I personally think these two expelled people can be major liabilities in the anti-war movement, having witnessed their behaviour on the 31st and at other times. However resorting to an attempt to discredit people by saying they have "mental problems" is going very low indeed. This happened in Stalinist Russia, where dissidents were neutralised by incarceration in psychiatric hospitals and accusations of insanity. So none of what's written above surprises me.
Speaking as a former member of the SWP myself, I found the description of the cadre meetings interesting. In the past, the branch met as a single unit, but during the last few years the branch meetings have become glorified public meetings intended to attract non-members, whilst the cadres meet in private session on a second night of the week. Membership, it seems, is now open to anyone who so much as shows a passing interest in the party. This practise is one of many imports from the British SWP – in fact, nearly everything the 300-strong Irish SWP does is in imitation of the 6,000-strong British SWP. The party perspective is constantly changing in line with the changing procedures of the British SWP, rather than in response to changed circumstances in Ireland as one would expect. Consequently, the Irish SWP is really little more than a pale imitation of its big brother (oops, sister, as the party likes to call it). In fact, all international off-shoots of the British SWP are subordinate to its wishes, a position kept secure by its large membership, infrastructure and the “tradition” of being the lead group – a “principle” established by the “tendency’s founder, Tony Cliff, fifty years ago. (The same is true of the Socialist Party, established in Britain by Ted Grant, now disgraced and expelled.)
The party, having “opened the doors”, doesn’t unduly worry about dilution of the doctrine. Cadres use force of argument and personality to ensure the leadership’s position on everything is upheld. An entirely top-down structure allows for the decisions of Kieran, Kevin, Willie, etc. to be communicated without argument to the membership (McCann, being in Derry, is out of the loop; the likes of Richard, Aoife, etc. are not taken as seriously as they think). Dissent exists in the party, but there’s no mechanism for expressing it so that everyone can hear; so, Kieran and Paul will argue their positions with one another, but those beyond the leadership will never get to hear of it or be able to judge the various merits of the argument. Similarly, you can have a difference in Galway, for instance, but there’s no way of getting your view known in Dublin. In practise, then, dissent is silenced by a structure that doesn’t allow for it to be effectively aired.
They made a mistake about the troops and quickly rectified it. They didnt refer too British troops as workers in uniform as the SP/Militant did all thru the war. Not so long ago SY members were still saying that if British soldiers left there would be a bloodbath, dont deny it, its on indy.
there is no way the swp in ireland has 300 members, more like 100 . i don't know about the north, but here in the republic you always see the same faces.
These accounts are so factually incorrect its laughable!
this sounds like GG?
The Swp should be renamed the SWPPP..= Socialist Workers Poster & Paper Party... thats all they fucking do, stick posters up & force their poxy tabloid paper on people!
Swathes of South American Rainforests are being cut down for them to produce their ridiculous propaganda.. all for what?.. 1 new member very 10,000 leaflets & posters?
How many times do they have to reasess the russian revolution? The working class dont want to fucking know about the rhetoric of the past,,, SWp are a pack of marx bible bashing, soap box orating fanatics,that further alienate the working class with their idiotic approach .
Oh yeah, dont question the 150 year doctrines of marx and dont even suggest that they should be modified for the 21st century as such forward thinking ideas are not looked upon favourably... non compliants to the gulags with ye...
Give it up people, the revolution is over.
Dont insult peoples intelligence any longer by impling that yis can change the world by empowering the masses, when yous know that the only way the masses will be empowered is through concerted violence and yis also are well aware that the only way your banditii would control such a diverse world would be to control with violence or such like...
Put an end to your pseudo-long out dated- radicalism and and use the forward thinking rational part of yer brains......
This post did not mean to resort to old fashioned red baiting as the writer her self is socialist but of much different persuasion that the above mentioned...
The writer herself above of course is a socialist but of much different persuasion that the above mentioned, she's obviously sits on the net all day- cyber socialism...I'd suggest you go back to playing dungeons and dragons
Is it possible that current members of the SWP might respond to some of the serious criticisms above without depending on well-worn cliches about "cyber-socialism" and "life beyond Indymedia". After all, it's self-evident SWP people are not above the occasional dip into Indymedia themselves.
to address some of the issues in this post instead of avoiding and engaging in pointless slander i think it would be helpful to refrain from entirely subjective points of view (although there is the argument that all points of view are to an extent subjective but that kind of infantile relatavism will leave us lost in the maze of the world as is without the possibility to change it)...anyway for every horror story re the swp there is one of praise (i notice the above article had no name attached to it)...the material world as is is riven with a contradiction we live under the thumb of a ruling class akin to a blind chessman, themselves the personification of the market (and no i dont mean that in a purely economic determinist way) but this economy is based on the exploitation of wage labour by capital and the process of competition, this dynamic has not changed since the russian revolution (although russia was a country still mainly feudal but on a world scale the dynamic of the 'process' is the same) the forms have changed and as these forms (neoliberalism/state capitalism/ hindu fundamentalist govt/etc) do have an effect and cant be examined in a formal manner there are still obviously changes to be made in revolutionary praxis from the historical process. sorry dont want to take up to much room on this link so will conclude by saying that i am a member of the swp and i truly do believe that they are a party of genuine activists and that these charicatures serve no purpose, why does the author not suggest an alternative theary and practice? does the author agree with dialectics as a philosophy? does the author feel that selling a paper in order to support the printing of posters flyers etc and to communicate ones ideas to a layer of people outside the party is wrong? etc etc.
anyway ciao, hope your all still aware of debate as a way to advance positions and move forward....;-)
SWP James - thanks for proving the point that the SWP are irrelevant. I won't waste any more space on this, as even this debateis just giving this shower of freaks the attention that they so obviously crave.
Let me get this right; you joined a group you had no time for in order to ridicule their organisation and methods , which you had already decided where worth ridiculing.
You then post your experience on a web site ,noted for its vitriolic hostility to that organisation.
What exactly is the point of your exsistence?
I know many SWPers. most are decent hard working socialists, many are among the finest most committed trade unionists I know. Most are entirely committed to the idea of the need for a centrally organised party to take on Capitalism.(I personally have my doubts if its possible or desirable anymore.)( have also met a numer of tossers but unless I am mistaken that is the nature of any organisation?)
As to your warning to others. ..I would encourage anyone to join Any socialist org fighting to challenge Capitalism and make their own minds up in the struggle.You have already made yours.You sound like a smug know it all laughing at those trying to make a difference.
Fair play James- they ask for a reply from the SWP- you give them one and they are still not satisfied. I agree with phillip's analysis above..make your own mind up-
James, your reply is surreal - do you expect anyone to understand anything you wrote?
//...the material world as is is riven with a contradiction we live under the thumb of a ruling class akin to a blind chessman, themselves the personification of the market (and no i dont mean that in a purely economic determinist way) but this economy is based on the exploitation of wage labour by capital and the process of competition//
WTF?!
The SWP always use the lack of any other political alternative as a justification or reason for the existance of or to join their party. The fact of the matter is that the Traditional socialism that they willfully espouse serves as a very reliable vector for human abuse of power (never mind the preconditioned greed argument) . The SWP actually cash in on peoples disillusionment with the world and thusforth try and succeed to mould many activists into theoretically righteous marxists thus distracting them form lateral or new lines of thought. 'This is the way & the only way' is an unquoted maxim, yet it seems to be a part of their central dogma.
The lack of imagination in formulating a viable political alternative( part of the by product of capitalist control in the world) is no reason to support a tried, tested & failed alternative that imposes power in the form of one state rule. A traditional socialist world is a uniform world that like the present , would have the exact same problems in dealing with cultural, religous & intellectual diversity... trying to claim that a workers democracy is unflawed is ludicris and further ignores one of the side effects of present democracy, that of a remaining repressed & voicless minority of which the SWPers and such like are similar to at present. The inversion of power from one bad ruler to another is in no way adequate as an alternative world order, thus the SWP and co. are content to cash in on( no pun intented) our human/sheepish mentality and show us that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
A friend of mine once idealistically suggested that we cast away our traditional politcal baggage, unite ourselves against the common enemy and when the war/ revolution is over we can set about a creating a political alternative. His point was that if we remain so divided by our divergent politics in the meantime we will achieve nothing and that by us continously trying to imagine hypothetically what the world will be like before & after the revolution we further alienate ourselves from the sponataneity nessecary for efeective change. personally i half agree and i have no doubt that the SWP have an 1848 roadmap to revolution and utopia that will lead us into horrible abyss much comparable to our present world!
the "forms have changed........ and as these forms do have an effect and cant be examined in a formal manner there are still obviously changes to be made in revolutionary praxis from the historical process"
James,
if you'd bothered with full stops and commas, the above might have been understandable. I suspect that it is meaningless, or it expresses a meaning which you didn't intend.
Simple question: Why isn't it possible to examine or anayse these new forms (neo-liberalism etc) of society and exploitation? Isn't that why we bother with theory at all?
We need to be clear about the nature of the beast, i.e Capitalism, which we are fighting. So I wouldn't dismiss theory as you seem to suggest. Could you clarify your intended meaning?....... so we can follow your train of thought.
Jim,
Do you see ANY problem(s) with the Swp??
Why is that SO MANY groups felt they had to leave the IAWM becuase of the Swp?
Why is that NOT ONE group received a response from the Swp/IAWM (with all these groups gone you might as well call it the Swp)?? Rather each group was just deleted from the mailing list and the IAWM/Swp moved on as before.
Best regards,
Perhaps when some people grow up they will realise that it's not the individual soldiers on the ground making the policy and deciding that they're going to continue to occupy the north. I bet a lot of them would rather be somewhere else like at home with their families or doing a proper job. The fact is that not every one of them is there voluntarily. There are some parts of the UK where the problem of unemployment is so bad that there isn't much of an alternative to joining the army.
I come from a part of Donegal where the nearest large town is in Tyrone, and over the years when every car going across was checked, you could always tell the difference between the regiments who were there at various times.
Obviously there were sadistic bastards like the Black Watch and the paras who got some kind of sick pleasure out of pissing people off, provoking and humiliating people. But there were also ones where you could clearly see that they had no interest whatsoever in that kind of thing. This was particularly the case when Welsh regiments were on duty. This being the late 80s/ early 90s, most people will understand why so many young men in Wales at that time were forced to look for different jobs, and the choice wasn't exactly generous.
Apart from this, the factis that a lot of people all over the world, I would say a substantial majority, have a viewpoint on international issues which is biased towards the view of their own government. This is due to meida coverage to that effect, as well as the "patriotic" element to the "national" identity people are brought up with in many cases. This is an explanation, not an excuse, for their behaviour. The internationalist perspective that is taken for granted by those who deal exclusively with other left activists is not as widespread in the general population as a lot of us here, including myself, would like it to be.
The fact that people still let themselves be influenced by "patriotic" propaganda is obviously a bad thing, but it doesn't make them evil people. Given the right circumstances, they can recognise that the interests of their government are not their own interests, and resist being used as pawns by their rulers.
This is what happened in the Vietnam war, when a lot of recruits in the US army became disillusioned and deserted, mutinied, or started attacking their officers and commanders. This shows the childish simplicity of the arguement that every soldier is a willing instrument of militarism and imperialism. It's a completely undifferentiated view of a heterogenous group of people.
the best thing those on the left to do when organising is just take SP and SWP with a pinch of salt, everyone outside the remits of these religions knows how ridiculous they are and fail to see how those involved cannot wake up from their Bolshevist dream like state. Parasites they are but they do get up on the morning of a rainy day when shit has to be done so you have to give them some credit. But hopfully over the coming years Ireland will develop like the rest of Europe and the likes of SP and SWP will filter out of the political limelight.
"But hopfully over the coming years Ireland will develop like the rest of Europe and the likes of SP and SWP will filter out of the political limelight"
If Ireland does go like the rest of Europe it will see a huge increase in workers struggle and a commensurate rise in left wing groups like the SP.
I found the above comments about RBB perceptive. In my day he was a decent enough fella, pretty naive and would have jumped off a cliff (no pun intended!) for K Allen and co. I still get the impression he is naive. Are Paul O'B, Willie etc still players in the party leadership? Would have taught the old iron broom of KA and co would have swept away these moderates long ago...
I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm not saying this in defense of the SWP (although I like them in relation to the North and I greatly admire McCann, in general I don't like them).
The original post is almost word for word the exact same as something I read about the American International Socialist Organization, the SWP's American sister org. Unfortunately it is no longer on the web, but it was at http://www.radio4all.org/anarchy/iso.html
If there's one I hate it's the manipulation of information. Someone probably saw the ISO piece and chnaged a few words here and there (do you even have "high schools" in Ireland?) and said it was the SWP. Just because they are sister orgs and very similar doesn't mean it's right to take one person's personal acount (I assume the original is real) and pass it off as that of someone in Ireland.
Tom Shelley
yeah i should have puntuated me remarks above in a much clearer fashion... basically i was saying that the fundamental dynamic of the 'system' i.e. exploitation of wage labour and competition, hasn't changed and such things as the nature of the state under capitalism as a tool for the promotion of the interests of the dominant class and organised violence to be directed at opponents or to grab resources etc but what i was saying was that this content is contained in different forms now (eg-neoliberalism) and that of course these forms have to analysed in their interaction with the content. anyway getting sidetracked from the debate. i think i made the above comment to illustrate that the swp is not full of dogmatic robots, the swp contains (along with many groups) a layer of commited and serious activists, i mean sometimes you'd think that we are not supposed to recruit to make people happy, that's ludicrous!
anyway- here ye are a member of the swp willing to debate....have to go eat some children, indoctrinate a badger and shoot some dissidents..oh yeah and maybe report my mother to the secret police...;-)
My life in the International Bolshevik Current is really great. Splitting from the IBT after splitting from the ICL was the best thing we ever did. We practice free love which essentially means all 6 of us meet up for an international conference once a year and have an orgy.
'State out of our crotches now!'
We pitty the likes of the SP and the SWP who only engage in monogomous relationships. They will never adapt to life under communism. We are ready. When the revolutionary masses stir, they will want to enjoy the carnal pleasures that only we can teach. They will swing (literally) behind us, the vangaurd of the revolutionary free loving proletariat!
'Break with monogomous opportunism! Forge a Bolshevik Party to lead the Proletarian Sexual Revolution!'
James,
No reply from Jim Mackintosh, so I'll redirect my question to you if I may.
First of all, nice one for being willing to debate this on Indymedia. There are hardly any Swp members who will debate on this website and sign their name.
I would also like to say that I agree with you that their are a layer (along with groups) of serious and committed activisists in the Swp. I know several of these activists.
I greatly admire and appreciate all the work that the Swp put in for the left.
However, I would prefer, and I'm sure others would to, if you not go into the socialist doctrine of it all, fundamenatl dynamics, capitalist & neo-liberal ideology, the philosophy of the dialectic etc.
These are not the central problems people have with the Swp. Rather from what I know, peoples problems with the Swp center around issues of:-
- Democracy
- Openess & Transparency
- Honesty & Trustworthyness
- Centrality
- Inclusiveness
- Dogmatism
In all these areas, and more, the Swp seem to have failed miserably. These are very serious issues and something which people like yourself and the Swp, I think, need to have a complete examination of. To publicly admit their have been failings and publicly demonstate how you intend to rectify these failings. Without such an admission you will find it hard to restore trust in your hard working organization.
The problems with your party seem to have been perfectly examplified in the splitting up of the IAWM. But the IAWM seems to be only one example amony many of the problems with the Swp.
In specific with the IAWM:-
Why is that SO MANY groups felt they had to leave the IAWM becuase of the Swp?
Why is that NOT ONE group received a response from the Swp/IAWM (with all these groups gone you might as well call it the Swp)?? Rather each group was just deleted from the mailing list and the IAWM/Swp moved on as before.
None of us like to think, nevermind admit, we have weaknesses and failings and to say we were wrong. But I urge you and the Swp not to undo all the good work that you are doing because you will not face up to these failings.
The ways you are going about to achieve your ends I think are obviously wrong both morally and practically.
Means must be equally as imporant as Ends.
Best regards,
Well spotted, Tom. The reference to "high school" should have set off the alarm bells. This article is indeed a cut and paste job. After a bit of research I found the original at http://www.infoshop.org/texts/iso_sects.html
This version has merely omitted or edited various sections and references that would only make sense in the context of an organisation based in the US.
I thought it was quite badly written myself but here at Indymedia we try to encourage original writing where the author has made at least some effort to write something coherent and newsworthy. We obviously could have investigated it a little better but we're all volunteers here with limited time on our hands.
As the original post is basically a cut-and-paste, it's in breach of our editorial guidelines and will be removed later this evening. I thought I'd just post this notice so that those who have contributed to the article know why it's being hidden. It's a pity as we've had some decent commentary from an SWP member - something quite rare on this site.
Anthony: if you and the Indymedia editorial collective remove this piece for your stated reasons, you’re worse bureaucrats than the SWP. So what if it’s a cut and paste job - the discussion which has ensued is worthwhile. Why not insert a piece at the beginning, explaining the problem. Otherwise, you’re censoring all the subsequent discussion.
Or Davy Carlin? Remember Davy, nobody else in the world writes like that. Most people make some sense.
And to the SWP muppet-trolls above.
1) it wasn't badman who posted this article - Badman writes his own stuff ( badman even thinks for himself - now there's something you should try)
2) How is the Grassroots Gathering like the SWP, ex-member? You are pretty clearly lying here since GG is not a membership organisation, and anybody who knows the first thing about it would know that.
3) Whoever posted this is pretty damned dishonest. The way to beat the SWP is NOT to get sneakier than them, it is to offer real democratic alternatives.
"First of all, nice one for being willing to debate this on Indymedia. There are hardly any Swp members who will debate on this website and sign their name."
It doesn't just say something about willing members of that organisation to debate on an internet website but the declining membership of that party. Why have there recently been so many posting under the name 'Ex-SWP' and so on?
So the SWP admire Lenin's work for Russia then? Anyone who knows their history is familiar with Lenin's policy of War Communism, which redirected civilian food supplies to the military and led to the deaths from starvation of roughly 2 million Russian citizens.
if i am being asked to further this debate by answering questions which directly relate to democratic centralism as a policy well then i cant really answer specifics without getting into some theory?....as for the iawm split, christ knows the swp genuinely tried to make the antiwar movement as broad as possible and i for one know that i did a hell of alot of work for the movement not just for the party, anyway if everyone (well some of you!) are willing to admit that the swp DOES contain a layer of commited activists well then what you're saying is that we're all 'duped' or brainwashed by kieran or something?? that's ridiculous!! the 'leadership' is elected democratically once yearly and according to merit and obviously on a net site i am not going to go into specifics but just to say i am not a 'robot' and i am not uncritical enough to accept a 'method' (for marxism is NOT a creed it's a method despite the fact that individuals may forget this!) without a lot of formative thought and review, anyway isn't it dogmatic to state as a general law of the universe ' swp = evil'...anyway off to offer some children to the alter of lenin maybe read some machiavelli later and then tomorrow finish my list of candidates for my own personal gulag and garden pond...by the way that last bit aint true or is it? din din din...
more of the same from indymedia. since this is a forgery, or borrowed from some other site, why don't you reveal the name of the person who sent it, or at least his or her e-mail address? why would indymedia, confronted with an upcoming visit by bush, think it necessary/important to post a rant that only attacks a party on the left? get off the swp's back for fuck sake if the'yre so irrelevant why do you wankers spend so much of your energy and waking hours worrying about them. anti-leninist? fine, organize something better. super-revolutionary? fine, build an organization of like-minded people who can mobilize the irish peoiple to give bush what he deserves. otherwise fuck off.
1 This thread started from a cut and paste forgery.
2 The origional writer admitts that he entered the swp to undermine it so he was never a genuine swp member.
don't accept this sort of shit, ignore spin.
James,
Unfortunately James "Chirst (does not know) that the swp genuinely tried to make the antiwar movement as broad as possible". From all that has happened it seems that the Swp tired to dominate the movement and was not willing to be just one participant among many participants on an EQUAL and democratic footing.
The simple question is, is that do you know why so many groups felt that they had to leave the IAWM??
How do you personally feel about not one of these groups receiving a response from the IAWM after their departure?? Does this follow in the nature of "genuinely trying to create a broad movement"??
If the Swp is to try and form a broad coalition in the future, I feel that it must learn to take a back seat, even if it puts in the majority of the work in setting up the coalition in the first place. If there is to be another coalition, in whatever area, the chairperson must not come from the Swp, and at most it must just hold only ONE (ONE PARTY - ONE VOTE) vote where nominations and decisions are concerned.
Do you feel that the above should be considered in relation to democracy, re-builiding trust, and in a genuine attempt to build broad coalitions??
Best regards,
I think in future there should be a federal structure where each group/party has an equal vote at meetings and local groups should be vetted by a committee (which no party should be allowed dominate) so that phantom groups can't be manufactured so as to 'pack' a meeting. Elections to the steering committee should also be done with a PR electoral system any votes on electing chairs shoudl have a qualified majority. This would curtail the undemocratic tendencies of the SWP and would facilitate more groups to join and participate in the IAWM.
Do people think this would be enough?
The only way to stop them would be just to ban the SWP from joining any future organisation. It should be that explicit, it should be put in the organisations constitution, "Membership of the SWP shall be incompatable with membership of XYZ as they are an undemocratic organisation that has a tendency to take over and dominate broader groups"
So the members of the SWP are pariahs now? They are bigger than all the other micro left groups put together.
If you ban SWP members would you also ban SF, SP, FF, lab FG etc.
Funny carry on for a 'democrat'
Leon, the SWP are different, they are an undemocratic organisation that has a tendency to take over and kill any groups they set up or join. There is not one broad group they have not doen this to. Look at the Socialist Alliance in Britain, the IAWM, Globalise Resistance, Another Europe......
what you say is true; but to some extent they just try to set up fronts and work through them rather than take over existing organisations.
On single issue stuff there is no point turning anyone away.
"what you say is true; but to some extent they just try to set up fronts and work through them rather than take over existing organisations."
Socialist Alliance in Britain???
The SA was also set up by the SWP, its just like the IAWM in that other groups were involved and they took its independance seriously. But when they tried to implement stuff SWP control resulted in them being sidelined.
I'm inclined to agree with Leon. People are falling into the trap of imagining the SWP are to blame for all the problems. In reality there are only one of a large number of current and historical leninist groups that have engaged in this sort of behaviour.
The SWP are the local problem because they dedicate the most resources to these sort of campaigns. But if they were not around someone else would fill that space if it was left open.
The real issue is for those involved in struggling around an issue to take the way they organise themselves almost as seriously as the issue itself. The SWP and others have been able to use the 'their is not time to talk about this, we must act' brigade to avoid such discussions again and again.
"The SWP are the local problem because they dedicate the most resources to these sort of campaigns. But if they were not around someone else would fill that space if it was left open."
I think that is an assumption Joe that someone else would do all the work they do if that was left open. There is nothing stopping other groups doing their own campaingning etc. right now. However, the Swp are an orgnaized group, publish a regular paper, have finance and have full time staff. Not many other groups can claim to have all this.
With all the above, I believe the Swp are an asset to the left, put a lot of hard work in, often which goes unrecognized - but they could be achieveing so much more for the left if they would just open up and democratize.
Regards,
By Joe
"The SA was also set up by the SWP, its just like the IAWM in that other groups were involved and they took its independance seriously. But when they tried to implement stuff SWP control resulted in them being sidelined."
The Socialist Alliance in Britain was actually set up as a result of a number of local alliances coming together. These groups had been prominent in a number of local areas and were built by local left activists including members of the Socialist Party in England and Wales. In fact the first national chairperson was Dave Nellist, SP councillor in Coventry. The SWP ignored the SA until it actually started to make sum gains in local areas and never ones to miss an opportunity they hopped on the bandwagon and took over the SA. The SP left the SA in Britain after the SWP forced a constitution through a conference that placed the SA under direct SWP control. Since then they have systematically removed or forced out any opposition that existed until it finished up with the SWP and their sidekicks the AWL. In recent weeks the SA has basically been abandoned as the SWP throw all their resources into the Respect Unity Coalition (RUC) of George Galloway.
The Socialist Workers Party (UK) has recently ditched the Socialist Alliance in favour of the George Galloway-led Respect, an electoral front gearing up for the June elections in Britain (local, Euro, London mayoral). At the recent national meeting of the Socialist Alliance, the SWP argued it should be dissolved, but resistance to the move led to a final decision being deferred for a couple of months.
The problem with all of this is two-fold:
1. The dominance of the SWP within the Socialist Alliance has allowed them to treat it as their plaything; its attempt to close it down in the face of opposition from most of its other left components is hardly indicative of a genuine attempt to build a left alliance in Britain, and should serve as a warning to the non-SWP left in Ireland.
2. The SWP's lurch from the Socialist Alliance into Respect smacks of opportunism (as did its involvement in the Socialist Alliance and virtually every other campaign -- or "united front", as it has taken to calling campaigns). Respect sprung pretty much fully formed from the brain of George Galloway, the disgraced Labour MP. Though Galloway was undoubtedly fitted up because of his anti-war stance, his disgrace is fully deserved because of his fawning audiences with Sadam Hussein and his dodgy business dealings in the Middle East. This is not a man any left alliance should want as its leader. Yet the SWP have thrown themselves into Respect and are singing the praises of Galloway (the Irish SWP, of course, are in on the act, treating Galloway as a hero during the tour they recently arranged for him). All very unedifying, and blatant opportunism by both parties (the UK version and its Irish poodle), but no more than we've come to expect from organisations desperate for an electoral breakthrough (at any price!).
This thread began about the SWP. But it could apply to many leftist organisations, who share the Leninist inspired vision of a democratic centralist party leading the working class to power. This or that downfall or spiral into sectarian fragmentation might be due to the personal faults of a particular leader or exceptional circumstances. But the fact is that such has been the fate of every single party founded on such lines since the time of the Russian revolution, and certainly since the 1930s. Decades of experience, and thousands of attempts to build such parties - and all we have are a multitude of irrelevant, warring sects, who are of more danger to their own members than they are to capitalism. Is there a lesson in there somewhere?
It therefore strikes me as more useful to suggest that, rather than focus just on the SWP, the SP or whatever, a wholescale reappraisal of an elitest, failed model of party building, and an open minded consideration of different approaches, might be useful.
However, to the closed minded, such suggestions are unacceptable. The result will therefore be - further sectarian irrelevance and greater disintegration.
Others might chose to decide that its better to refuse to repeat the mistakes already well made in the past.
There are many on the radical left in ireland who have learnt the lessons and ditched cultism-leninism without lurching to the right. Contrary to the impression given by some on this thread the SP/SWP are a minority on the left and are far outnumbered by socialists who are not members of either party. Many of these are former members of the SP/SWP. Also it should be noted that there are a number of small left groups in existence which specifically reject Leninism and have a democratic internal structure including the Workers Solidarity Movement, Irish Socialist Network and Socialist Alternative. These groups also have a good record of activism on the ground.
First up - George Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party. He's not - and hasn't been for some time - a Labour MP.
And "disgraced"? I assume you're not referring to the Saddam bribe allegations, since Galloway has just received a substantial libel payment from the US paper that launched the smear.
"Disgraced"? For opposing the war? For sticking two fingers up at Blair? For calling on British troops to cease occupying someone else's country? For doing more - I would guess - than any other single individual to build the anti-war movement in the UK? This is all pretty bad in the eyes of the Labour leadership; bad enough to get him expelled from the party he was in for most of his life. But hardly things the Indymedia crowd would suggest are matters for condemnation.
The truth is that Respect currently looks like doing something no left-of-Labour organisation has done in the UK for eighty years: cracking open the base of Labour's support and presenting a credible electoral alternative. That it should do it on a strongly anti-imperialist platform is doubly significant. It's quite a slur on those involved to suggest this is just Galloway's opportunist bandwagon: a slur, for example, on candidates like Janet Alder, sister of Christopher Alder, killed by a racist police force; or Anas Altikrit, former President of the Muslim Association of Britain, who resigned that post to stand as a Respect candidate. These people would not be involved if this was simply Galloway plus a few Trot misfits (as implied). The ideal proof, I suppose, waits on the Euro-elections; I'm confident Respect will make a mark.
“You, sir, are indefatigable": George Galloway to Sadam Hussein, as seen on TV – wouldn't you call that disgraceful? As regards Respect, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but etc. etc. It’s what Galloway and the SWP does in July (after the elections) that will prove or disprove allegations of opportunism. I predict a poor electoral showing followed by the departure of Galloway and the SWP in search of pastures new.
George Galloway said the saddest day of his life was the fall of the Berlin Wall (collapse of Soviet Communism, etc).
What a nice guy!
Aye such a great day for freedom and democracy.
We will never know what the 'eastern bloc' could have achieved or developed into but for the capitalist strangle hold and its intention to wreck the socialist project.
What has been the outcome of this wonderful day? Poverty, hunger mass exodus to the 'free world' and a life of poverty, hardship and prostitution therein. The mafia now run Russia, Bulgaria and many other former 'soviet block' states. The more frightening outcome has been the unregulated hegemony of the USA and its military, industrial, dominance of our world.
I Dont care really about gorgeous george but I would love to know how anyone with any semblance of reality could be all romantic about the Wall coming down.
Stop saying dialectic!