DITSU; A Union In Name Only.

by mius Mon Mar 08, 2004 17:57

Is it true about vote rigging?

by Eoin Dubsky Mon Mar 08, 2004 18:35

I've heard that similar carry-on by some members of the DCU SU exec - interfering, conflict of interest stuff - will be reported in the next issue of DCU student newspaper 'The College View'.

by antrophe Mon Mar 08, 2004 19:13

maybe if you get your hands on a copy of that paper you could scan in the text about the conflict of interest to here??? Thatd be really good.

by Earlsfort Terrace Student - UCDSU/USI Mon Mar 08, 2004 19:33

Under the USI Constitution all Constituent Organisations' Constitutions have to be ratified if they are to be/remain members of USI. This is there so that if any Union adopts policy or practices that are repulsive to the USI then they should be 'expelled' from the organisation.

I think that DITSU are a repulsive organisation. I think that they are not a Union, they are a business. Last time I checked it's the Union of Students, not a Chamer of Commerce. At the next available opportunity their constituation should not be accepted.

I'm sure Will Priestley & co. have not got the balls to say this to DITSU as they are a large Union that pays USI Officers' wages!

by DITSU Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:44

Only the SWP or their fellow ilk would go on this site and complain about a referendum that has been won by this level of support. The fact of the matter is that while student Unions such as UCD have been off complaining about irrelevant issues that don’t affect Irish students, Ditsu have been involved in real campaigning and real changes at all levels. Last Year during the fees crisis, and earlier this year, Ditsu brought thousands on to the streets, while UCD, which have supposedly politicised their students, had about fifty. I now find it rich that a Union, which has so patently lost touch with its membership, as have UCD, should turn on DITSU. Well done Brian and Hugh for the great work you are doing.
P.S. Do any of you know that the SWP only get a few hundred votes in this city? You don’t represent anybody so fuck off.

by Earlsfort Terrace student - UCDSU/USI Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:24

"irrelevant issues that don’t affect Irish students"

Yes irrelevant issues like library hours being cut back. Irrelevant issues like a massive 10% cut in the College budget. Irrelevant issues like the BTEA cut back. Irrelevant issues like the disgraceful campus accommodation situation.....

While UCDSU have been doing this DITSU have been turning into a commercial operation. You put more attention into selling merchandise than campaigning on issues. Your unprincipled new constitution is disgusting.

BTW There is only 1 member of the SWP on the UCDSU Council (which has about 100 members). The Socialist Party and the Labour Party would have far more people involved in UCDSU and these parties hold sabbatical positions.

by Dr. Schzmund Fraud Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:26

Dear DITSU,

From a brief reading of your above rant, I can see that you are an individual in the grips of delusional paranoia, shitting your pants in fear that two serperate entities are chasing after you and trying to bring about your ineveitably destruction. These entities are UCD SU and the SWP.

Waking up every mornign and checking if these are under your bed? Turning the light on and off fifty times just so you can sleep sound in the knowledge that there are no Socialist Worker selling goons or UCD types lurching in the dark ready to rip your jacket off come morning? Yes, my friend what you are suffering from is a dose of the new unionism which is akin to severe schizophrenia with a bout of Dissociative Identity Disorder. Essentially as you juggle being a student union with not an ounce of democracy left and falter back and forth from being a business the situation will worsen. Deary deary me, what is the good doctor to recommend.......

......a bullet in the head, ya paranoid fool. To think that NOBODY in DITSU can cop what the fuck you lot are up to, Hitlers enabling act was voted in by a majority of the fucking Reichstag too, but we all know what the democratic atmosphere was like there.

Stop screaming witch at those offering an alternative point of view......

UCDSU and the SWP aren't at the source of your worries. The erosion of democracy and turning our union into a business is.....

by chris - sp/sy Wed Mar 10, 2004 13:51

sad to hear what happened in ditsu. the students union im a member of in bifhe in belfast has 40000 members (yes really 40000) and the union does sweet fa! the elections for site representative had just 200-300 members voting. in my campus college square in belfast city centre, we have a tuck shop and 2 pool tables provided by the union, owe to be amember of a students union!

our site epresentative paddy dorian has alsso left bifhe, but there has been no re-election or recall. the meetings that run the union have just 4 elected members on them and people paid for by bifhe (ie not the union) sit in on the meetings.

ive tried going along to a few meetings to try and get motions passed, but half the time our site representative wasn't even told about meetings, or was told the next day how one had taken place the day before!

all across britain and ireland i think its probably correct to conclude that students unions are used for liitle more than sprucing up cv's for nice little right wing hacks.

thankfully il be leaving bifhe soon and won't have to put up with a farce for a union.
la lutta continua

by OK - SP Wed Mar 10, 2004 14:21

I agree with the thrust of your posting Chris. SUs around the country are pretty bad, full of careerists and right-wing hacks. However I don't think it would be right to conclude that all SUs and all those involved are completely rotten.

It is my experience that when problems arise in Colleges and Universities students will look to the SU for assistance. Yes, there may be some seriously rotten apples, but the task is to get those people out. It also has to be said that many getting involved in the SUs will do so for good intentions. In the fight against budget cuts and fees it is a great assistance to get the resources of an SU.

by chris - sp/sy Wed Mar 10, 2004 16:39

yeah i didnt really mean to blanket all students unions like that, just feel a bitpessimistic because of situation in bifhe. we weren't even allowed to actually look at the ballot papers or results, we were presented with a fait accompli at our siterepresentative election.

definitely students unions are looked to as a basis of support and help. but one of the things about bifhe is that 40000 people are a member of the union and you'd be hard on pressed to find 100 people there who even knew that they were a member of a students union! for fighting democratic student unions, i'll second that.

la lutta continua

by Aoife Fri Mar 12, 2004 17:55

"This now gives Hugh O Reilly Brian Whitney and co. their life Dream of being Sabbats forever as they themselves are going to apply for the new jobs of CEO and unelected executives of DIT the business. "

Please, if you're writing an article, do some research. This is only one of the many mistakes and blatant misrepresentations in your article.

The current DITSU exectutive are all, but one, leaving the Union this year. O'Reilly, Whitney and the like are going back to college, getting other jobs. Leaving the union.

Yes, the majority of the staff of the union will be employed professionals. But the three main positions, the ones that make the decisions, will be elected by the student body next week.

It is ineveitable that Student Union structures have to change around the country. UCD et al have to wake up and face these changes. Or else they'll get a scare.

by Earlsfort Terrace Student Fri Mar 12, 2004 18:01

"UCD et al have to wake up and face these changes. Or else they'll get a scare"

What changes are inevitable? Commercialise your Union? Stop reprenting students and start seeing students as a source of cash. DITSU are a bunch of fools. They honestly think Unions are about commerce and money. Idiots.

I'm ashamed to share the same city with you gombeens.

by Interested Observer Sat Mar 13, 2004 14:43

DITSU have only got to look to USI to see what happens with the finances when you let managers run things

by Eóin Kearney - DITSU Tue Mar 16, 2004 14:24 welfare1 at ditsu dot ie

Overall Welfare Officer Replys
I am writing in relation to an article posted Monday, March 8th titled: “DITSU; A Union In Name Only”.
I would firstly like to know were Jordanista, got his/her information from, as it is not very accurate. In fact one of the only pieces of information given that is correct is that of the referendum dates.


“After the close of polls the sabbatical officers (conflict of interest?) counted the votes only to find that they were below quorum. What was the solution of the motley crew of DIT sabbats.- just reopen the polls and let the voting to continue until they reached their quorum”

I will not the deny the fact that two out of the four ballot counters were sabbatical officers, I in fact being one of them. Even if there was a conflict of interest I don’t see how the ballots could have been rigged with such a huge margin as we were in full view of students and also under the observation of our Chief Returning Officer. The ballot cards are there if you wish to count them your self.



“Then after the quorum was reached the sabbats recounted the votes and the referendum passed Saddam style with 96%”

I’m intrigued to know were Jordanista managed to get such accurate information considering that there was no way possible we could of reopened polls after we had counted the ballots and also just for the recorded the referendum was passed with 92.8% of the vote not the 96% as previously stated.



“After a report carried out by Deloitte and Touche, it seems Dublin Institute of Technology SU has found that the best way to increase the participation of students in their organisation is to write students out of the constitution!”


In fact the new constitution puts the power back in to the hands of the
students! Our last constitution was actually written by Sabbatical Officers for Sabbatical officers, conflict of Interest!?!?!?!?!?! The new Constitution has been written for the Students! Sabbatical Officers will now be more accountable for there actions. If they fail to deliver what they supposed to the students can take proper action!



“The referendum effectively ends the notion of DITSU the student Union and creates DITSU the business. The new executive is dominated by unelected staff Surely someone will appeal this farce”


I will not argue the new structure may seem more business like than that of a Students’ Union. But in practicality that is not the case, although there will be professionals staffed in the union the people who will over see them will be elected sabbatical officers. At the moment we the Student Representatives are unable to represent our students properly due to the excess work we are bombarded with!
My fellow Welfare Officer and myself sat on a committee that reviewed our position. We found that most of our time was taken up with accommodation, employment and grant issues. These three areas are extremely detailed and require somebody with proper skills and knowledge. If a student comes to me with an accommodation problem I have to refer them to another organisation, because I am not qualified to give them legal advice. Why not have somebody qualified in-house to be able to deal with his or her problem there and then. Another position will be Director of Student and Academic Affairs. I ask how many of you have had to have an exam appeal? How many of you have had to represent a student in an exam appeal? This year I have represented students and although successful in the appeals at the end of the day I should not be the person there representing them. I do not have the training or the proper expertise to do so. Who would you rather represent you in what could determine the rest of your college education? A student rep, who was sitting were you are this time last year, or somebody with the proper background that can deliver you an efficient and effective service! I know which I’d choose.




DITSU has been through the wars over the years, I have to commend the staff and execs over the last two years, to take on such a task as reforming the union in a bid to make it better for their students. I think a lot of people forget that we were students and most of us will be students again next year. Although you do get officers in it for them self’s you forget about the officers who come in early, who stay late, who go through the stress and sometimes negative atmosphere to try and deliver a union there students deserve.
To be honest if everyone loved us it would be no fun, all I ask is next time your going to try slate us please do some proper research, try get both sides of the story and get hard proof not just hear say, I mean referendum results are they really that hard to find out?

by Jarlath Molloy - - Mon Mar 22, 2004 16:55

The Independent Media Centre has a reputation for quality journalism which makes a valuable contribution to society. Indeed its own website proclaims its conception “for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth”.

The recent “DITSU; A Union In Name Only” article by “jordanista” is a poor reflection on the journalist, the editorial standard and the gap between the original aspirational aims of the IMC and where it is presently.

The article at best could be described as unbalanced and lacking objectivity, or at worst as an un researched gripe furthering someone’s hidden agenda on the back of an otherwise reputable forum.

The bulk of the article is based on the recent independent strategic review and internal review carried out by the DIT Students’ Union and its ratification by its student members.

There are too many fundamentally incorrect statements, false facts and scurrilous allegations to rebuff individually.

However while I am not going to rebut each inaccuracy, it is worth noting that the aforementioned process was set up by the student representatives of the DIT Student’s Union at the SU Governing Council. There was considerable consultation throughout the process and approval of the SU Governing Council was given before proceeding to referendum. The ratification process was overseen by an independent Chief Returning Officer and no formal complaints were made following the results. Therefore the new structure and constitution was adopted by the Students’ Union and ‘rubber-stamped’ by the SU Governing Council following the referendum outcome.

True open democracy in every sense before, during and after the process.

The author would have done well to research their article beforehand, as their poor attempt at journalism says more about their own standing than their attempted sensationalist piece of tabloid journalism.

There is more to the phrase “There are two sides to every story” than just cliché.