link between animal cruelty, later violence

by David Tue Mar 02, 2004 20:25

Wanton cruelty to living creatures can only be caused by truly disturbed people.
I'm not sure if this has much relevance to the institutional cruelty of modern farming practises, do many intensive farmers or slaughterhouse employees have a history of personal violence? that would be a worthwhile study perhaps?

by Lone Gunman Tue Mar 02, 2004 23:39

A study done by two animal rights activitists.The report wouldnt be slanted a wee bit in their arguments favour?
Sort of like asking the tabacco industry to bring out a report on the non harmful effects of tabacco.
Would be better toget an indepandant research group to do this "study"

One of the biggest mass murdrers in history was an animal lover and vegetarian Adolf Hitler.

Stalin was also very fond of animals,he offed 18 million of his own people.

Charles Mansons "family "after offing Sharon Tate and friends made sure her dogs were fed and looked after.As cruelty to animals was not "cool"

I'm sure there are plenty of animal lovers that were complete psychos too.

by JMcK Wed Mar 03, 2004 09:01

Funny thing;

Hitler was a big animal lover from a young age. He was especially fond of his German Shepard .

Mousselini loved all animals and kept rabbits as a child.

Pol Pot also loved animals in the wilds of Cambodia and studied various forms of fauna as an amateur .

I wouldn't be surprised if Jeffrey Dammer was cruel to everthing from a kitten to his rendition of Danny Boy but I would hardly go around looking for psychopaths based on this Psychiatric yardstick or his actions.

Did judge Moran kill kittens as a child? Did Michael McDowell beat puppies? We know G.W. Bush was involved in anti-semitic attacks as a student but was he cruel to animals? Lenny (Shankill Butcher) Murphy loved his animals and would "pull you head off" for mistreating an animal.

So how do we spot Real psychopaths?

by tintin Wed Mar 03, 2004 09:12

And what about King Leopold of the Belgians ?
It's estimated that he was responsible for the deaths of somewhere between five to fifteen million natives in the Congo duing the time that it was his own personal fiefdom.
(By the way this means that he should be considered PERSONALLY responsible - not responsible in his capacity as head of state).
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/leopold.html

How come he never features on the usual lists of mass murderers ?
Perhaps because he was a good old fashioned imperialist-capitalist untainted by "right" or "left" wing ideologies ......

He probably loved his pet dogs too .....

by Raymond McInerney Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:00

Download the following from sciencedirect.com (subscription)

In 1985, Kellert and Felthous obtained retrospective data from 152 adult males in an attempt to clarify the relationship between childhood animal cruelty and violence toward people. The authors examined three groups of adult males: aggressive criminals, nonaggressive criminals, and noncriminals. Assignment to the aggressive or nonaggressive criminal groups was based on ratings from prison counselors regarding inmates' behaviors while incarcerated rather than on historical factors or the reason for imprisonment. Each subject was interviewed by the authors as to childhood behavior toward animals. The authors found that 25% of aggressive criminals reported a history of five or more acts of cruelty to animals, while less than 6% of the nonaggressive criminals and 0% of the noncriminals reported such a history. In addition, severity of animal cruelty acts was rated significantly higher within the aggressive criminal group than in the other two groups.

by iggyj Wed Mar 03, 2004 15:30

Dia dhoibh
I never heard about these anti semitic attacks of old Georgie's. Could you elaborate please JmcK?

I think the point this book is trying to make is not that all violent people are also cruel to animals, or that if somebody is violent that they will be also cruel to animals.

I haven't read the book, but I think they mean that if somebody purposefully inflicts pain on animals for their own enjoyment then there is a higher than usual chance that that person will also show disregard for the feelings humans, to what ever degree.

As all beings are part of the same Spirit, intentional cruelty to any of them is reprehensible (in my view).

Anyway, tog go bog e, slan libh

by No 6 Wed Mar 03, 2004 16:16

JmcK is James Mc Kenna one of the nutter inhabitants of the site. Re his opinions on tibet here

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61172&search_text=tibet

Apparently in his world China liberated Tibet from the tyrannical rule of oppressive Buddhists.

Take everything he says with a grain of salt.

by roddy Wed Mar 03, 2004 16:27

Lone Gunman -I've heard that claim about Hitler being a vegetarian before . Do you know of any sources that can verify it?

by David Wed Mar 03, 2004 17:16

From the November 1996 issue of "The Animals' Agenda", attributed to Roberta Kalechofsky



Biographical material about Hitler suggests a contradictoriness in reports about his diet. He is often described as a vegetarian who nevertheless had a special fondness for sausages and caviar, and sometimes ham. One of his biographers, Robert Payne ("The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler) took exception to the view of Hitler as an ascetic, and said it was deliberately fostered by the Nazis to project an image of Hitler as pure and dedicated.

Wrote Payne: "Hitler's asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he have anything to do with women.

"Only the first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages, and kept a mistress... "His asceticism was a fiction invented by (Nazi propagandist Joseph) Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self-control, the distance that separated him from other men..." Biographer John Toland ("Adolf Hitler"), describes Hitler's early student diet as consisting of "milk, sausage, and bread."
Moreover, Hitler never promoted vegetarianism as a public policy for either health or moral reasons. His lack of policies and public support for vegetarianism is significant in a leader who rigorously enforced other health policies, such as anti-smoking and anti-pollution legislation, and pregnancy and birthing measures for women.

The rumor that the Nazis passed an anti-vivisection law is also filled with contradictions. No such law was passed, although the Nazis reported that such a law existed. The Nazis allegedly passed an anti-vivisection bill in 1933.

"Lancet," the prestigious British medical journal, reviewed the Nazis' law in 1934 and warned anti-vivisectionists not to celebrate because the Nazis' law was no different, in effect, from the British law that had been passed in 1876, which restricted some animal research, but hardly eliminated it. An enormous amount of research on animals continued to be carried out by Nazi doctors.

The evidence of Nazi experiments on animals is overwhelming. In "The Dark Face of Science," author John Vyvyan summed it up correctly:

"The experiments made on prisoners were many and diverse, but they had one thing in common: all were in continuation of or complementary to, experiments on animals. "In every instance, this antecedent scientific literature is mentioned in the evidence, and at Buchenvald and Auschwitz concentration camps, human and animal experiments were carried out simultaneously as parts of a single programme."
It is important that the facts be known so that the myths about Hitler and the Nazis cannot be used against the animal rights and vegetarian movements.

Animal rights advocates should not let these false claims appear in the media unchallenged. The record must be set straight.


It is also worth noting that Hitler was full of contradictions. He was a Dark Haired brown eyed Austrian violently homophobic Homesexual (probably) with one testicle who saught to build a Third Reich for an Arian Blonde haired blue eyed race of pure bred Germans who used to be best friends with a jew before he decided on the 'final solution'
He was clearly insane

by JMcK Wed Mar 03, 2004 19:28

The best source for Hitler's occult and esoteric beliefs and practices described is Nigel Pennicks "Hitler's secret services". He and other SS menbers explored the occult, geomancy, holy grail myth, vegetarianisn and much more in their efforts to understand the true Germanic zeitgeist (?). There is a fine line between White Magic and Black Magick just as there is a fine line between the electricity in an electric chair and an incubator.
Same science, people applying it differently.

Some quotes from the demonic murderer:


"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian."

"The only thing of which I shall be incapable is to share the sheiks' mutton with them. I'm a vegetarian, and they must spare me from their meat."

"At the time when I ate meat, I used to sweat a lot. I used to drink four pots of beer and six bottles of water during a meeting. … When I became a vegetarian, a mouthful of water was enough."

"I am no admirer of the poacher, particularly as I am a vegetarian."

"Above all, don't go believing that I'll issue a decree forbidding the Navy to eat meat! Supposing the prohibition of meat had been an article of faith for National Socialism, it's certain our movement wouldn't have succeeded."

"Personally, I cannot see what possible pleasure can be derived from shooting. … I have never fired at a hare in my life. I am neither poacher nor sportsman. …[But] if I excluded poachers from the Party, we should lose the support of entire districts."

On Martin Bormann's instructions, the secret conversations at Hitler's headquarters, from July 1941 to November 1944, were all recorded. These extracts are from the book, "Hitler's table talk ,1941-1944."


Animal lovers are acutely sensitive to the horrific suffering that humankind routinely inflicts on animals. Therefore, it is only logical that some animal lovers would develop an extremely hard-hearted attitude toward humans. In their minds, any suffering imposed on humankind might be seen as appropriate karmic payback on behalf of animals. For example, in order to justify his persecution of the Jews, Hitler used graphic films of how Jews slaughter animals.*

by No 6 Wed Mar 03, 2004 19:35

James you ain't backed up your "bush was involved in antisemitic attacks" comment.

Apparently "we" all knew about it.

Making accusations without supporting them makes this site and us look bad...

by The New No.2 Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:18

"Making accusations without supporting them makes this site and us look bad..."

like......

"link between animal cruelty, later violence"


Looks like there is plenty of evidence to prove that the worst butchers and psychopaths in history have had an unbelievable love for animals considering their ass murders.

So what not for psychotherapy , psychiatry and psychology, based on such proven false cliches?

The "proof" in the above article is based on two named American nutters and the so-called results of a study carried out by two American psychologists on a bunch of criminals in South Florida.

South Fla, with it's cocaine fuelled society (1 ounce = €250) , is hardly typical of the world. Such studies are the pillars of a pseudo science that is as bogus as a $2 bill!

Change the subject to Bush if you want to avoid responsibility for such a misleading study/article.

by Dave Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:56

The $2 bill is in circulation and is legal tender. Get YOUR facts right.

2 Note Fact Sheet

The $2 denomination enjoys a rich tradition in American history. It first originated on June 25, 1776, when the Continental Congress authorized issuance of $2 denominations in "bills of credit for the defense of America." Under this authority, 49,000 bills of the $2 denomination were issued.

In 1928, the present size U.S. Note with the portrait of Thomas Jefferson, third U.S. President and author of the Declaration of Independence, was issued.

The Series 1963A note bore Jefferson on its face and Monticello on the reverse. The Series 1976 note features a portrait of Thomas Jefferson painted in the early 1800's by Gilbert Stuart and the back design is a vignette based on an engraved reduction of the painting, "The Signing of the Declaration of Independence," by John Trumbull. The Series 1976 note was printed to celebrate the U.S. Bicentennial - 590,720,000 Series 1976 $2 notes were printed.

On September 12, 1996, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin was presented with a new series $2 bill. The 1995 series notes were printed at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing¹s Western Currency Facility and bear the seal of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta. These notes carry the signatures of Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin and U.S. Treasurer Mary Ellen Withrow.

by JMcK Fri Mar 05, 2004 20:10

Too true Tintin.

"King" Leopold of the Belgians has escaped much scrutiny for the estimated 10 million Africans that died in the course of Europes expolitation of Congolese ivory and rubber resources between 1891 and 1911. Despite the fact that over 10,000 scholarly studies have been done on the nazi holocaust the first and only study of Leopolds mass murder is Adam Hochschilds , "King Leopold's Ghost" published on Houghton-Mifflin in 1998.

by Three Euro coin Sat Mar 06, 2004 19:56

Anyone else seen a $2 bill or is it just Jade?

Hard up for a heckle there aren't you kid?

Your as genuine as a $2 bill yourself ....idiot!

by daddy wharbucks Sun Mar 07, 2004 01:12

No it really does exist:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/denominations.html#q5

Sports a mug-shot of Thomas Jefferson.

http://www.moneyfactory.com/document.cfm/5/43/150

http://taco.com/reb/2bill.html

by Lone gunman Sun Mar 07, 2004 16:49

As phoney as a THREE Dollar bill.
In reference to the two dollar bill which was and is accepted currency.

by idiots - idiots Mon Mar 08, 2004 13:57 idiots

IDIOTS,
I have nothing else to say, except that i have already lowered myself far enough in just replying to this infantile drivelling nonsense.

delete at will.

by animal liberation front Wed Jun 16, 2004 02:53 alfireland at wildmail dot com

Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:24 AM
> Subject: alf hit irish circuses.
>
>
> > The Vegas Circus in County Meath had an unexpected visit from the Animal
> > Liberation Front last night. Before their performances even started all
of
> > their promotional and directional signs were removed and destroyed.These
> > signs were mostly on main roads , some being over eight foot long.
> >
> > This action was carried out because Circus Vegas use animals in their
> > performances, wild animals should not be forced to carry out unnatrural
> > tricks and actions for entertainment, animals belong in their natural
> > habitat and not in wagons or cages, The cruelty in circuses takes place
in
> > secret during the training of the animals. The small spaces allowed to
the
> > animals is cruel and inhumane.
> > There is no reason why circusers should need animals unless they are
void
> of
> > enough human talent to attract visitors.
> >
> > The ALF will continue to target Circuses with animal acts. ...until all
> are
> > free.
> > Press officer ALF ; Robin Webb.00 44 7752 1075 15.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
>

by a.k.a. Wed Jun 16, 2004 21:20

aren't you lot still listed as terrorists or something?
doh.

by Monique Rodriguez Sun Oct 10, 2004 22:37

I think that the everyday violence that slaughterhouse employees and "intense farmers" are encountered with greatly influences thier personal lives.
The serial killer G. J. Schaffer wrote stories about his experience at a packing plant. His job was to knock the pigs over the head with a sledge hammer before cutting thier throats.
Not long after taking this job did Schaffer begin to brutally rape and murder wemen.
This homocide spree was undoubtably influenced by his earlier occupation as an everyday pig slaughterer.
M.R.

by Archbishop Hynes Sun Oct 10, 2004 23:34

Yes it makes sense thta if a person is used to killing animals it would be easier for him to be a violent killer. I can understand that.

If I had to kill an animal I would not be bale to eat meat.

by Lone gunman Mon Oct 11, 2004 00:19

why the terroistic thugs can decapitate their victims with impunity in iraq.Ever seen a hallal killing??Under the koran and the torah the animal must be bled for the meat to be clean or kosher.Its throat is slit and blood aplenty is all over the place.
No wonder the Al saqawi terrorist scan do this no problem.they have witnessed and proably done it all their lives.Yeah, kill animals makes good terrorist training to be able to slit westerners throats.

Apart from the fact that animal libber propaganda has been debunked years ago.

by dolly Thu Mar 17, 2005 09:23

Hitler was a speed freak, no wonder he had no appetite and was a wee bit paranoid.