Mark of the Beast Technology to Be Implemented in EU

by Bead Sat Oct 25, 2003 09:32

http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=342713&group=webcast

by Hubbar Mon Oct 27, 2003 01:59

No one can track you with one of these babies, for sure!!!

by Jaque de lad - OWL worshippers anonymous Mon Oct 27, 2003 20:19

they'll combine it with a debit/smart card system so you'll have to have one to buy food, get welfare, borrow a book or pay a bill.

Revelations 13:17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


ever get the feeling that instead of these books being prophetic, that the bad guys just get there ideas from them?

if Orwell hadn't written 1984, would these bastards have thought up big borther CCTV etc by themselves?

do they deliberately do stuff out of revelations just to scare people or pander to their own egos?

still, it will be handy if we all submit to voluntary surveillance. (not counting terrorists of course, who don't use credit cards to buy explosives)

by Bob Mon Oct 27, 2003 20:30

The European Health Insurance Card is intended to end the bureaucratic misery of E111 forms currently used by travellers who fall ill in other EU countries. Eventually it will replace a plethora of other complex forms needed for longer stays.


Oh, my god! the pile of E-111 forms will fall over and crush us all!!!!

We must all get tagged now to prevent this dire event from coming to pass!!!!

hmmm... what was the previous excuse?
social welfare fraud?

Immigration? search for this... Pascal Smet, the head of Belgium's independent asylum review board, and Australian Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock. the proposal to fingerprint entire populations to 'prevent illegal immigration'
But he said the plan could be extended worldwide.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

By the way, if you're flying to the States on Delta, you should be proud that they're investing loads of money on new biometric recognition technology.

by Smiles Tue Oct 28, 2003 09:37

In the staes they can keep you off a plan if you have too many credit card debts. They are also going to track mail.(www.infowars.com) - today Europe is contemplating putting tracker chips in the currency. Where are we headed with all this. I remember the the days when I use to take peaceful walks with God's loving eyes wrapped around me. I had no cellphones, chips, or stereo, but was surrounded by the kool ocean air, and a sense of freedom and peace.

by Simon the pieman Tue Oct 28, 2003 13:05

If you've nothing to hide , you wont have a problem!! This will track rapists murderers and other criminals more efficiently. Whats the big deal. Only people with something to hide have problems with this

by tronman Tue Oct 28, 2003 13:23

I think people who dont understand the capacity and capability of this kind of technology will fear it. Also as simon the pieman says; People who have something to hide will lose out.

Think about the logistics of integration and all the new countries joining next year - this is an efficient way to cut out a lot of the various and complicated bureaucracy between member states

by Joe Tue Oct 28, 2003 14:00

Sure only people with something to hide will fear such a system, those taking a sick day off work but not at home in bed, teenagers around the bonfire, skateboarders outside the bank of Ireland, jaywalkers, drunks, hillwalkers cutting across 'private' land, kids mitching school, bin tax protesters blocking a truck, Travellers pulling in for the night, couples fucking in bushes, kilroy (as in kilroy was here), RTS heads, spliff heads, speeding drivers, cyclists, anyone using (illegal) fireworks this Holloween, asylum seekers ...

But sure big brother loves us

by tronman Tue Oct 28, 2003 14:27

into some paranoid conspiracy movie plot.

yes, scrutinise developments rationally and in context of benefit and loss but dont fall in with the paranoid-clown crowd.

by Jacques de Lad Tue Oct 28, 2003 16:27

Only people with something to hide have problems with this.

ONLY PEOPLE WHO WILL NEVER OPPOSE OR STAND UP TO UNJUST POLICIES WOULD BE SO NAIVE ABOUT CIVIL LIBERTIES.

Well, there's a few obvious things wrong with this proposal.


1. people with something to hide will have NO PROBLEMS with this.
Terrorists will continue to steal other people's cars to carry their bombs and pay CASH for explosives (carried in bags, not taken from the local ATM, and leave no digital or paper trail.)
The people who leave the paper and digital trails are the ordinary citizens.

As for CCTV, it doesn't deter much crime.
most crime in city centres is drink related.
A guy kicking the crap out of you outside McDonalds is too drunk to think or care about CCTV, or the consequences of his acts.


So what is this expensive system for?
What does the CCTV and electronic tagging/tracking system do? And why can't the money be spent on more actual police who can PREVENT the crime rather than simply pick up the pieces of evidence when it's too late?

2. given that most people see this government as corrupt why trust them with a system that they do not need?
Why SHOULD the State /Police have access to my private information?

This type of information can be used to track people, to let them know that they can be tracked, and to intimidate them.

3. Honestly, answer this.
Why is it fine for the state to say we cannot trust the ordinary civilians, but 'mad' for us to say we cannot trust the unaccountable government?

On a simple statistical basis - which group has a higher percentage of criminals?
If the GENERAL POPULATION had the same incidence of tax dodgers, crooks, drink drivers, wife beaters and arms dealers/ smugglers as DAIL EIREANN has seen, then the courts and jails would collapse under a huge backlog. - would anyone care to contradict that FACT?

Who should be watching whom here?

by tronman Tue Oct 28, 2003 17:20

do you really think that people are looking at YOU or really have time or give a shit about YOU. You may flip your lid if you were to know how many databases your personal information is likely to be on already....

you also might flip your lid if you knew the trail your IP address leaves etc....

by jacques the lad Wed Oct 29, 2003 15:04

that's the beauty of it.
They don't have to watch you anymore.
They're not listening in on everyone's conversations, or reading everyone's e-mails.

but the minute they want to arrest you for protesting or for offending the puppet masters, well then, they can check your phone records, e-mails, credit card bills, where you used your ATM card last.

Of course, this can only be used to intimidate you and get to your friends if you are worried about them knowing this information.

I've had the cops tell me my my brother's bank balance, and other details - just to let me know that they knew.
Didn't intimidate me a bit, but they've no right to that information unless it's relevant to a crime.

but if THEY'VE got nothing to hide, why did the Gardai stonewall the inquiries into Abbeylara, the Morris Tribunal, RTS, etc...

Why does the government not allow US to see the full details of weapons sales from this country to cruel regimes?

Why are the public so complacent about keeping an eye on those crooks?

by erm Wed Oct 29, 2003 16:57

there is no 'beauty' in it at all. All that tracing can be done now if need be. If you want the 'privacy' you cherish you will have to drop-off from society = no home, no banks, no internet, no credit cards, no job, no vote, no insurance, no phone, no passport, no sports clubs etc. etc. etc.

by Jacques de Lad Thu Oct 30, 2003 17:11

--All that tracing can be done now if need be.--

Actually, no it can't.

The old methods of tracking dissidents was to send a branch type to follow them, which took up time manhours and money and was usually very obvious.No state in the world can READ everyone's e-mail in real time, or even trickier ACTUAL POST, listen to all the phone calls.
But the advent of huge databases and digital phone technology means they don't HAVE to do this. They can let computers search mail for certain words.
They can retrieve old e-mails or phone records AFTER the fact.
They don't have the people to do all this, but, they can pick people out, and it is this invisible hand that instils the fear, and the control in others.

You don't have to drop out of society.
You just have to be a bit more careful.
They're not as good as they'd like us to think they are...

by Jacques de Lad Thu Oct 30, 2003 17:32

If you try to go all Ted Kazinsky, then what type of life will you live? and who will you reach?

Nah, just realise, there's loads of people sending anti-war e-mails, too many for them to read. And most of us are not discussing blowing up the white house, so if they throw a print out of an old e-mail at you, look it over, realise that they will try to bluff about it, and then ask for a copy of the legal authority they used to get it.

Don't bother encrypting your mail, that only draws attention to you.
Live your life, do your stuff, but remember...
If you want something to be very confidential... then say it face to face.
They're not magicians or psychics, and the old methods of communication still work.

Look at the waste of money spent by arms companies infiltrating the Campaign Against the Arms Trade... they learnt nothing, because CAAT is an open organisation that does not hide what it is doing.
Whereas CAAT learned loads about BAe, which is secretive.

The main power of having trackable compulsory cards is to put it in your head that if you don't like their policy and try to organise against it, then they will know EVERYTHING about you. -which they won't, unless your entire life story can be told by your ATM receipts, phone records and how many times you went to the doctor.

That being said, the bastards have no right to the info in the first place, and the reasons for wanting it are bogus.

Hwo will a EU wide health card stop rapists and murderers? Who said that and what planet do you live on?

by barry Thu Oct 30, 2003 18:52

what are you hiding tronman? what do you fear? why don't you think you're innocent?

or is it that you just don't want us to know your name?

by tronman Thu Oct 30, 2003 19:36

and if you do are they registered? You know it possible to trace your present location from your phone etc.

anywayz I dont fear anything from the large amount of databases that store my personal info. I have nothing to hide and any activism I do i stand by 100%

I imagine the EU health card thing is a way to harmonise the beaurocracy between countries to further simplify the movement of people between member states. that being one of the stated purposes of the EU. I also imagine there is a slight necessity to bring this about at a time when the EU is increasing so massively. It has taken a long time (decades)to bring the EU to where it is now and its going to almost double in 1 year. etc etc.

by Haji Kuzataka (Jr.) Sat Nov 01, 2003 22:14

a swipe card is one thing,
one which stores biometric data is a whole different story.

but then again. If you want to do something dodgy,
do it in slow steps... most people won't notice.