Taoiseach Challenged Over Bin Tax & Waste Management

by Unaccountable editor - Indymedia Ireland Fri Oct 24, 2003 18:01

Before they accuse us of being all sorts of nasty things? Generally articles on the newswire have to contain a certain amount of information. Questions and unsubstantiated opinions belong as comments. If, on the other hand, you do have some material on the DCTU stance on the issue, we'd love to see it.

by Joe Fri Oct 24, 2003 17:46

I agree with Pat, it would be stupid to allow people to post comments to the newswire because it would clog it up in no time. It's not hard to write an article that makes the point you want to make but that also informs people.

by pat c Fri Oct 24, 2003 17:36

Whats happening is that some people are posting short pieces which are really comments. These are then moved to an appropriate thread.

Someone posting a 2 liner that in their opinion the DCTU are not going to do anything more to support the campaign is jus t that - an opinion. Its not imparting any new knowledge and imho does not deserve to be left up as an article in its own right.

by Rank and file trade unionist Fri Oct 24, 2003 17:31

Especially those criticising the Dublin Council of Trade Unions inaction on the bin tax campaign
Is this a new policy by Indymedia Ireland? If so it sucks. I wonder how long this post will stay up before it's deleted by an Indymedia editor/s with an over itchy finger placed on the delete button. A reply ftom one of the unaccountable dictators in Indymedia Ireland would be much appreciated but very unlikely to happen.

by more dail 'debating' Thu Oct 23, 2003 16:24

Mr. J. Higgins: I have come from Mountjoy Prison. I visited some of the 11 ordinary working people incarcerated there and in Cloverhill for peaceful community protest against the brutal policy of the Government of threatening to leave uncollected the refuse bins of tens of thousands of householders and compliant taxpayers because of their boycott of the bin tax which they correctly believe they have paid through general and other taxation. Working men and women, fathers, mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers have been carted off to jail within days of peaceful community protests. They had no recourse except to protest in this way.
It is six years since the massive tax evasion scam by the Ansbacher criminals came to light. Ansbacher man has never darkened the doorway of a courthouse let alone found himself behind prison walls. It is many years since councillors were revealed as being up to their necks in corruption with speculators. Not one has darkened the doorway of a courthouse on that account let alone been jailed for it. The chairman of the Revenue Commissioners now says that the amount stolen from the tax fund by the largest tax evasion racket ever seen in the history of the State and probably of the European Union which was organised by some of the largest banks and financial institutions is moving towards €1 billion. Not a single board member has been in front of a court let alone in jail for this monstrous theft.
Does the nauseating double standards of the Government and of the economic, political and judicial establishment in the State cause the Tánaiste even the slightest embarrassment? Does it ever strike her as being even a little unjust that the small people, the working class men and women and compliant PAYE taxpayers and pensioners, are carted off to jail for peaceful protest while the millionaire tax evaders and the boardrooms of banks and financial institutions that organised scams on a massive scale are untouchable? Does the Tánaiste agree that the Government is exposed-----

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy's two minutes has concluded.

Mr. J. Higgins: -----as monstrously hypocritical for allowing this to happen? What will she do to stop it?

The Tánaiste: No one is in jail because he or she engaged in peaceful protest, as the Deputy is well aware. People are in jail because they defied a High Court order. I understand that some of the individuals to whom he referred do not have to pay these charges because they have waivers.
As Deputy Joe Higgins knows, we have an independent Judiciary. The revenue authorities are independent and have the power to prosecute in these circumstances. We also have an independent Director of Public Prosecutions. The Deputy must also be aware that 90% of the people in the area he represents have paid their charges and are entitled to have the service for which they have paid without that being interfered with.

Mr. J. Higgins: The Tánaiste should answer the question.

The Tánaiste: I have.

Mr. J. Higgins: It is incredible. The Tánaiste has evaded the question of the monstrous hypocrisy and double standards of the Government and the establishment. Where are the instances of High Court judges bringing the boardrooms of banks - the real criminals - in front of them and sending them to prison instead of decent working class people? The Tánaiste is completely dishonest. Will she suspend-----

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should withdraw the remark that the Tánaiste is dishonest.

Mr. J. Higgins: Will the Government suspend the brutal-----

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should withdraw the remark.

Mr. J. Higgins: She is politically dishonest.

An Ceann Comhairle: Will the Deputy withdraw the remark unequivocally?

Mr. J. Higgins: The Tánaiste refused to answer my question.

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Joe Higgins should withdraw the remark and he can then continue.

Mr. J. Higgins: I accused her of political dishonesty.

An Ceann Comhairle: Will the Deputy withdraw the remark, please?

Mr. J. Higgins: What remark?

An Ceann Comhairle: That the Tánaiste is dishonest.

Mr. Quinn: When did this arise?

Mr. J. Higgins: I said she is politically dishonest. She would not answer the question and I will leave it at that.
Will the Government suspend the brutal policy of the non-collection of the bins of compliant taxpayers and allow the debate on the bin tax and the substantive environmental issues that arise to continue? Is the Tánaiste prepared to see Mountjoy Prison become a Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats gulag for hundreds of workers and pensioners over the next few months, because that is what will happen? Does she have any idea of the anger of ordinary taxpayers at the monstrous double standards over which she presides - the stealth taxes, the increase in house prices which will rob the young for the rest of their lives and the new tier of local taxation-----

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy's minute is concluded.

Mr. J. Higgins: -----that the Government is attempting to apply, shortly to be joined by water charges of up to €1,000 per family? I warn the Tánaiste that the determination is huge. Will she answer the question I posed at the beginning? Is she embarrassed by the double standards of the system and the establishment?

The Tánaiste: The Government will not let 100 or 150 supporters of the Deputy halt the refuse collection service for compliant taxpayers in Dublin. Some 90% of the people in the Fingal area have either a waiver or have paid their charges, as the Deputy knows.

Mr. J. Higgins: That is not so.

The Tánaiste: That is a fact.

Mr. J. Higgins: The Government has intimidated them.

Mr. D. Ahern: The Deputy should allow the Tánaiste to answer.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has had his chance.

The Tánaiste: It is a fact, and many more have paid in the past month than was the case before that. Recent events have encouraged people to pay. The Government believes that such compliant citizens should have their service restored and should be allowed to have their bins collected. The only ones preventing them from doing so are a small group of protesters.

Mr. J. Higgins: That is not true. The Tánaiste did not answer my question.

by Jonah Thu Oct 23, 2003 13:30

Bertie said last week that one of the reasons roads weren't being built was because people were protesting about the threat to snails and swans. Then he flung some abuse at Trevor Sargent.

Pat, who likes a 'witty' bon mot in the Dáil chamber almost as much as boozing with sycophantic journalists, is much amused by this and like that annoying half-smart kid in class, keeps referring to it.

Pat is the leader of the Irish Labour movement and yes, it is deeply depressing that he is more concerned with smartarse remarks than, well, anything else.

by ipsi Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:32

I imagine that involved some clenching of the fist around your notes or on the back of the seat in front of you till your nailbeds went white with the pressure. I suppose if you had said "Fuck you Bertie and all your kind!" you would have got suspended from the Daíl, but you said it well, and we'll do the "FUCK YOU BERTIE AND ALL YOUR KIND!" on your behalf.

I prefer hearing Deputy Joe in the Dail than not hearing Deputy Joe coz he was in prison.

by seyton Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:53

Fair play to you joe, you're really putting it up to them.

I found Pat Rabbitte's contirubtion bizarre. It seems that his orientation is towards the private jokes and the milieu of the Dáil and not the local communities that are being hauled before the courts.