Dundrum Marxist Forum on Privatisation

by Anonboy Tue Aug 12, 2003 18:46

Love to go to the Dundrum Marxist Society meeting but, unfortunately, I am busy.

I have to watch paint dry that night.

by woohoo Tue Aug 12, 2003 18:55

sign, join, sell, sign, join, sell, sign, join, sell, sign, join, sell... and so on and so on

by Seáinín Wed Aug 13, 2003 01:15

when the bus companies are rid of those Union hack parasites.

by seainins sexy sister Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:22

or are you out of swp bashing material already?

by Badman Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:03

I'm all for the busworkers and really think that anybody who gives a shit about this country should get fully behind them.

This really is a crucial struggle, if we lose it will be hard to imagine Dublin having any type of a public transport system in the near future. If they can get the transport workers they'll be after everyone else before too long, we have to win this won or we could be facing a long line of defeats. We're fighting against the government, the EU, and global capitalism itself. Unfortunately we're also fighting against the SWP, who have decided to set up another front, or "wholly owned subsidiary". The fuckers have made sure that they 'own' the campaign making it incredibly more difficult for ordinary people and independend leftists to get involved. The SWP will also be, as usual, perfectly happy to sabotage the workers campaign if it doesn't do exactly what they tell it to and will, in effect, prefer to lead our class into another defeat rather than relinquish their vice like grip on the campaign's throat.

Yet, my fellow workers, I counsel you to get involved regardless of these Trotskyite reactionaries, the issue is too important to leave it up to them to fuck it up. Do what ye can, we can not lose.

by Degenerate Wed Aug 13, 2003 17:17

How about the SWP calling a forum to debate:

1. The need to democratise the IAWM.

2. The need to stop setting up dodgy fronts.
(Anti-Privatisation forum being the latest, unless I missed one this week.)

3. The need for the ISF to be the main organiser for the ESF.

by Leon Wed Aug 13, 2003 20:26

No one takes these so-called forums seriously, because they are simply recruitment meetings for the SWP. Of course that is not to say that an SWP organised meeting or forum could not be useful, but for it to be so , it would need to be a real forum where different views were debated in an open way. Thats not to say that you invite Michael Mc Dowel, but why not a range of different progressive/left views. No chance of that because the aim is to sell the simplistic, sloganneering party line.

by Anongirl Thu Aug 14, 2003 00:12

"Hi and em, welcome to tonight’s Marxism forum. We have some real treats in for you all tonight. My name is Tarquin Gore-Symthe and I am the convenor of the Dundrum branch of the SWP, I also am the co-ordinator of the Stepaside Anti War Movement, the Ballinter Anti Bin Tax Campaign, the Goatstown branch of the Anti-Nazi League and the Director designate of the Foxrock Anti Poverty Society. Anyway great of all of you to make it here,… perhaps the two of you would like to make your way to the top of the room, there is plenty of room. Unfortunately tonight’s meeting clashed with the drying of Anonboys new painted wall and as we have a bit more room than expected. Nonetheless, lets crack on.

Firstly up tonight we have A Dublin Bus worker, which we found earlier, he will talk about the privatisation of the public services. If any of you don't understand Dublin, that’s ok, I am well versed with the dialect, can imitate a mean version myself when needs call, and will translate. Following a Dublin Bus Worker, we will have a black person, they will be speaking about racism, and thank you to the black person for coming tonight. Our final speaker tonight is a woman, not just any woman, but one from Sallynoggin, working class if you like, and she will speak about being a woman.

Now before we start I would like to point out a couple of house rules, firstly; please no smoking, the vicarage is over 400 years old and a protected building and secondly I would implore on the guests tonight PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE SPEAKERS - we had a terrible problem last week in Clontarf, with a Bin man eating far too many canapés. He got terribly ill and my organisation was forced to foot the bill for a night in the Blackrock clinic. Much to my amazement the clinic doesn't take medical cards and imagine my further surprise when the Bin man informed myself and Sorcha that he had not availed of one.

Lastly before we start, I would just like to point out that half way through the meetings you will probably notice a small gang of young men and women joining us, don't be alarmed they are my party comrades who were unable to be here on time as they were busy in Rialto tonight, stuffing a meeting about the planned redevelopment of the Fatima Mansions complex. Young Ruairi will be standing for public office in the area and my comrades committed themselves to attend the meeting in Rialto so as to loudly applaud each and every rhetorical statement he had rehearsed. When they arrive don't be surprised if they badger the speakers, constantly disagree with them and rudely sneer at them whilst nodding their heads at anything I say, they are just following orders.

That said, you never know, they just might not make it as Rialto is some distance off the, what you may call, beaten track and I think that Simon, for one, was somewhat confused as he text'd me earlier looking for the mobile of the Rialtoese Ambassador, claiming his “auld man knew everyone needed to be know in Dublin.”

During the speeches tonight I will be circulating in the audience selling copies of our paper, the Socialist Worker, but given I have no change and you are both new I sure two copies won't go amiss.

So without further adieu please welcome to the podium...... A Dublin Bus Worker.

by Dundrum SWP Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:15 dundrumswp at yahoo dot com

..been reading thought some of these replies..interesting certainly but this idea of "tokenism" is a laugh. Actually there are 2 speakers at this forum,

Owen McCormack of the Bus Workers Action Group and NBRU member.

Deirdre Cronin a well known anti-water charges and bin charges activist in the Dundrum/Ballinteer area.

So I dont know why people have to resort to stereotypes about meetings in South Dublin, certainly a socially diverse area if that is what the last posting is referring to or whatever. For anyone who cares, we want to discuss the linkages both local and global in this privatisation agenda the government has set out on and what resistance can be build etc.

thanks

by citizen smith Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:53

what kind of loser are you if you are obsessing about typing up a skit just to have a go at the swp,why dont ya piss off and start your own group and try and so some good instead of wasting time having a go at the swp eh?

by Anonymous Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:16

.

by conor (wsm personal) Thu Aug 14, 2003 13:12

I'll be so glad
by Seáinín Wednesday, Aug 13 2003, 12:15am


>when the bus companies are rid of those Union >hack parasites.


Yes the buses should shoot along without actual drivers

- seáinin your perceptive analysis has, as always, moved us deeply

krossie

by Leon Thu Aug 14, 2003 14:47

Now come on Dundrum SWP, you're only proving the point. Why did'nt you just say that Owen and Deirdre are also members of the SWP. Now theres nothing inherently wrong with that, but why always the pretence that its a broad meeting with different viewpoints being aired. No insult to Owen, who is a decent and respected activist, but why not have a busworker who's not a member of the SWP? It all goes to prove that these are not really discussion forums, these are recruitment meetings. And that, Dundrum SWP, is why your Forums only attract phonebox size audiences.

by Dundrum SWP Thu Aug 14, 2003 15:34

I think you've got it wrong here. These forum meetings openly organised by the SWP and the posters put up in whatever area have that stated on them. Both are members of the SWP.

by sanchez Thu Aug 14, 2003 15:57

Ah sure are'nt yis just great ! gonna save Dublin Bus and the rest of Ireland's public bodies, but where do you think the campaign will gain momentum ??? surely there are other ways to advance the struggle than in a small room in Dundrum. Dublin Bus will continue their strike and force the government to U-turn, if they dont it will just continue. And low and behold the SWP will take immense credit for that huge turnout in Dundrum !!!
Just as they did with the Anti war rally when 100,000 marched the streets of Dublin, all answering the calls of the SWP who are PANA ??? mmmm I wonder if they sold newspapers at their rally's. Just a Thought.....

by Dera Thu Aug 14, 2003 16:23

A piss take post is written, Dundrum SWP reply, in a typical dismissive, snide, dour and aloof manner, scolding the author for reverting to stereotypes.

And then low and fucking behold, one of the main stereotypes known to all of the SWP, that of fronting all sorts of "organisations" is confirmed.

The "Tarquin" character announces he is a member of a variety of different organisations. And in a reflection of real life the actual meeting is going to be addressed two members of the SWP, pretending to be neutral, but informed, citizens!!

Like Fianna Fail the SWP is concerned withonly itself and its pursuit of power and influence. There lack of transparency (the greatest example e.g what is their address of their head office), their lack of honesty (e.g the anti war movement) and their lack of scruples (e.g latest attempts to dominate the ISF meeting in October) and utter ruthlessness (the way they deal with party deviants) means that they have proven, even in their micro state that they would be utterly corrupt if ever given the chance.

Just like Fianna Fail.

by Sean - Ind S Thu Aug 14, 2003 16:40

Like who?

by SWIMY Thu Aug 14, 2003 17:13

Ray: I've deleted the article that was cut-and-pasted here. Anyone interested can read it at
http://www.marxists.de/religion/rose/jesus.htm

by MARY F Thu Aug 14, 2003 17:17

So get your asses down to dundrum to hesr more
and by the way theirs a newspaper for everyone in the audience LOL

by Anonymous Thu Aug 14, 2003 18:58

Dera,

I am a supporter of the Swp and many/all other left wing parties, groups & individuals.

I do not like to try and drag down the work that all the above are doing to try and tackle capitalism/neo-liberalism.

Yet I'm sure no group or individual is perfect - so if things can be done to improve groups or individuals then I think these steps should be taken.

Regarding the transparency example you use for the Swp - "the greatest example e.g what is their address of their head office".

Have you actually tried contacting the Swp to find out what their address is and why it is they do not post it on their website and literature? Rather than just venting your critisizms on this website in a total abhorent fasion on a group that has done an infinite amount of work to counter capitalism both in this country and in the world?

I am assuming you are a left wing person. I find this abhorent critisizm self-defeating for the left movement in Ireland. If you were coming from a right-wing perspective I could totally understand such abhorent critisizm.

Best regards.

by Dera Thu Aug 14, 2003 19:15

Anonymous said

"Have you actually tried contacting the Swp to find out what their address is and why it is they do not post it on their website and literature?"

Ok you convinced me - now what's the address of the SWP, so I can pop into their offices and talk to them about joining?

Dera

by Anonymous Thu Aug 14, 2003 19:25

Ahh Dera, I wouldn't like to deprive you of the excitement of trying to find out their address.

So I take it you ain't gonna investigate this then?

But thanks for the laugh with the website :)

by Riddler Thu Aug 14, 2003 20:37

It says in graffiti in large letters on the wall opposite the office "fuck the SWP".

by Dera Thu Aug 14, 2003 23:53

But Anonymous, you are not depriving me of any excitement. I have a question for you or any swper who may read this.

For what warped reason do you keep your address secret?

Do you think that having a secret address makes your organisation quasi-underground, in effect like Fianna Fail a 'slightly constitutional' party?

I expect an answer on this question.

by citizen smith Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:11

018722682


or email them swp@clubi.ie

or write to them=swp po box1648 dublin 8?

by john Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:48

Just been reading the last few threads and have noticed that Dera is correct not even on the SWP website could I find a single address for any of their branches.
Why ??
No head office address either, why ???

The days of the cold war are gone people,
you know your allowed be a socilaist these days !!!

It's not against the law !!!
or maybe you havnt noticed, maybe ill stick to voting for a party i know i can drop into and see without all this tension of having to keep their offices secret

grow the fuck up !!!!

by Anonymous Fri Aug 15, 2003 14:06

Expect an answer ehh!!

As I said earlier Dera, I am a supporter (not a member) of the Swp, and pretty much all other left wing organizations and individuals.

So I have no idea why they do not publicise their exact address. I do not think it is for sinister reasons as you and others here would like to think, but like yourself I would like to find out the reason for this and will be making attempts to do so.

Ayi

by Ray Fri Aug 15, 2003 14:58

I don't think so.
Perhaps an exagerrated sense of their own importance and a cultivated siege mentality. The same reasons why Tony Cliff (ex SWP guru) and Ted Grant (ex SP guru) didn't use their real names. When you're that important to the cause of revolution, you get a code name.

by confused Fri Aug 15, 2003 15:33

Revolution me arse ! what revolution ? u think a few street protests and some crappy looking posters is a revolution Cop on ! Go read some Irish history if you want to learn about revolution. Theres been one going on in the six counties for 30 yrs while u stand idly by whinging about problems all across the world yet. You havnt got the balls to start any revolution Arsehole !!

by Archive-browser Tue Aug 19, 2003 18:47

Both Ted Grant (Isaac Blank) and Tony Cliff (Ygael Gluckstein) were immigrants to Britain before the second world war. They used psuedonyms because they were in a very real danger of victimisation and even deportation. This may surprise you but revolutionary socialists were not high on the British government's list of welcome arrivals.

As I understand it, despite taking the rather elementary precaution of changing his name, Cliff was in fact deported to Ireland during the second world war.

Sneering about activists not using their "real" names under such circumstances isn't very edifying, Ray. As for why the SWP don't make their address public, I have no idea.

by simon Tue Aug 19, 2003 20:16

can any one of you SWP people give me one, just one would do, example of how you have 'countered - capitalism'.

Jumping on any issue that suits your agenda isnt a revolution.

by archive delver Wed Aug 20, 2003 02:29

Both Tony and Ted also chose to keep their real names secret into the 1990s, when any threat of them being in danger had lifted decades ago.

I'd guess that the SWP live in a wierd mental universe where they are an imminent threat to the state and secret police dog their every step.

by Ray Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:27

Using a false name to avoid deportation is fair enough.
Continuing to use that false name, 50 years after the threat of deportation has disappeared, is posturing.