Cork anti-war activist refuses to pay Shannon fine

by CAWC Sat Aug 09, 2003 00:04 corkantiwar at hotmail dot com

The next meeting of the Cork Anti-War Campaign will be held upstairs in O'Donoghue's on Drawbridge Street at 8pm on Monday, 18th August. All welcome! Phone 087 1258325 for details.

by Seáinín Sat Aug 09, 2003 02:26

Well, there's one born every minute. Just imagine if Saddam was still in control in Baghdad and still refusing to cooperate with weapons inspectors ayear from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now.

Some people just don't get it.

by JMcK Sat Aug 09, 2003 09:20

Nice one Mangan, you fool! What idiots some of these judges are. Intoxicated by their own imagined importance. I hope they have a planet all to themselves and they don't seem entitled to live in this country!

Hey Mangan you bollox, while little girls die for want of €1000 operation fucks like you go and blow over €30,000 locking up a man who is no menace to society. I'll bet if we totalled up how much your lifetime of stupid decisions has cost the Irish exchequer it would be a fair bill. How do you sleep? Alcohol?

More power to you Fintan.

by Lone Gunman Sat Aug 09, 2003 13:34

What has a decision in a courtroom to try and convict a criminal got to do with a lousey health service?
Some people really are on another planet with their arguements today.Get over it, an anti war hairy is going down for three months because he isnt going to pay a ligit court fine.By his own admission and choice.

by Anonymous Sat Aug 09, 2003 14:36

Seanin, you say "some" people don't get it. But this some, was & is the vast majority of the people of the world. Most countries over-whelmingly disagreed with the invasion of Iraq, at the time it was done. Even within the US & UK, huge sections of the population disagreed with it, in the UK the majority of the population.

And the world's apprehensions have been proved correct with the non discovery of weapons of mass destruction.

The UN, which the US & UK are part of (and only 2 parts of) - employed weapons inspectors to investigate for weapsons of mass destruction. These inspectors unaminously did not come up with anything and were not even near ready to giving the go ahead.

But this did not suit the US & the UK and they stuck their finger up at the UN/the world, as Bush had doen in the Kyoto enviromental earth summit, and just went ahead and did their own thing, in their relentless pursuit for oil and other economic & political ends.

The UN founded in the aftermath of World War II, formed to try and bring world stability, and not to have another World War (which would inevitably be our last), was rendered useless, and world stability has been severely shaken.

If this pattern, and the way the world is structured at presnet, continues, it will lead to our inevitable doom - unless the "some" you talk about can change this pattern & structure.

Regards.

by Ciaron Sat Aug 09, 2003 19:39

Solidarity Fintan,

You're at large for us, We're on the loose for you!

Any movement that seriously confronts power will find folks in jail. By risking jail you remove it's fear as a sanction in your head.

There appears to be very little legacy of anti-war activism left by the anti-war movement that came and went in Ireland in Feb/March. Appears that certain individuals and groups used the war (the deaths of many people) as a short term marketing opportunity for their profiles & parties.

I couldn't imagine 2 warships, 2 A10's, 2 F 16's coming into New Zealand for example (similar size country) so shortly after this war and there not being major civil unrest. Surely this must be one of the most timid generations Ireland has produced.

Yet another rally is being called for September when Ahern laughed at the largest one in history in February. The only time Ahern and Cowen cringed was when serious nonviolent resistance was taken at Shannon. 3 0f the 4 keynote speakers at the IAWM conference did not utter the word "Shannon" in their presentations. So do the math on priorities there.

In nonviolent resistance we have to maintain the initiative. I think getting tied up in appeals of minor cases is a mistake, leading to a vibe of dissipation and procrastination. A public refusal of noncooperation with the fine is proactive and courageous.
Many thanx & solidarity
Ciaron

by Seáinín Sat Aug 09, 2003 21:56

You think the majority of people in the world was against the removal of the Saddam regime?

Well, only 100,000 marched in Dublin. If you remember, half a million marched in the 80's against PAYE. That's just in Ireland. As for the rest of the world, well never know, it never got past the security council. I do think you "no war ever" people are a tiny minority of misguided souls.

Don't kid yourself either about France and Russia, they've lost their lucrative arrangements with Saddam.

by sleepy Sun Aug 10, 2003 01:52

ah seanin, youse know we weren't mentioning france and russia no more. people have to forget about them so the bosses can give them some juicy new tidbits to get em sweet again. youse know the russians were always gonna get the refinery contracts coz they do em cheaper than anyone else plus ther's all the nuke junk they're letting be buried. and the frogs.....

by Eoin Dubsky Sun Aug 10, 2003 17:06

There are a few things in your comment which I'd like to gently respond to here, now that you've made these comments on Indymedia once or twice before (Another Resister? hee heeh):

I'm with you when you say that it seems that some people and groups may have used the war, or at least the anti-war movement to be more fair, as a self-marketing and body-snatching opportunity. But in the sentence before, you appear to be saying that the anti-war movement "came and went in Ireland in Feb/March". I think that the self-marketing and body-snatching came and went in those months, along with much honest and hard work of course. What I'm saying is that it seems strange to complain about the lack of legacy from a period when, if I understand you correctly, you acknowledge that there was quite a bit of selfish crap going on. Body-snatchers never leave a legacy worth talking about! :-)

People have been campaigning against war and Shannon Warport in particular for months before the invasion of Iraq began. Protests at Shannon began the moment people realised troops were passing through there on their way to Afghanistan (in 2001).

From conversations with people in Gluaiseacht and anti-war groups around the country I get the feeling that they're again plotting and scheming (just you wait and see!! heeh heeh heeh). Some alliances are being reviewed, which maybe wasn't possible during the heated period of the tv (anti-)war of Feb/March 2003. And that's good too!

Reading over what I've just said, I guess I'm not far off from where you're coming from. But the way you wrote it just made me think I need to get my 2c in. :-)

I think you already know the facts, so I just don't get what you mean writing: "I couldn't imagine 2 warships, 2 A10's, 2 F 16's coming into New Zealand for example (similar size country) so shortly after this war and there not being major civil unrest. Surely this must be one of the most timid generations Ireland has produced." Firstly, very few people would know about the arrival of these warships and warplanes. Secondly, anyone who saw the aircraft at Shannon Airport also saw that they were guarded by armed police and soldiers. Thirdly, there was a protest at the Galway Salthill Airshow, which is where the planes were on public display.

There's also a whiff of age-ism, as I guess you don't mean the previous generations of people "Ireland has produced". You mean young people, am I right? Which is funny cause the only people in Ireland, polled after the start of the invasion of Iraq by the MRBI/Irish Times, who switched over to support the war were men of your age and older. Young people and women continue to oppose the war.

Finally, I think you're entitled of course to think that a legal appeal, even a presidential pardon (just kidding!), is pointless or counter-productive. I think it would be nice to acknowledge at the same time though that other people may have other reasons than just procrastination for their appeals. I have said right from the start that I wouldn't pay judge Mangan's fine (1,000 euro), but I also think that I deserve a chance in another court to defend myself against the charges. Furthermore, if at Circuit Court level we can get a "lawful excuse" of "I had to try and stop the war..." to work, it will have been worth it surely.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Mon Aug 11, 2003 01:46

Ciaron, Eoin, Fintan . . . You are all fantastic people. Whatever you choose to do against war and militarism and while you continue to do it non-violently, any one of you is worth more to humanity than a thousand million generals.
Keep up the struggle and never lose heart.

by Anonymous Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:14

Ref. Justin Morahan's comments.

Here Here!

Fantastic & Inspirtational work done by all 3.

Keep it up!

by Corkboy Mon Aug 11, 2003 16:48

Heard Fintan on Cork radio today - its all over both stations. Sounded brilliant!! Keep it up.

by curious Mon Aug 11, 2003 21:23

Just ignore them, they have nothing worth replying to anyway and replying just encourages them.

by Seáinín Tue Aug 12, 2003 01:00

An alternative method of ending the impasse in Iraq would be a good reply, but nobody's ever come up with any solution. You people are against everything but have no ideas of your own.

by Yossarian Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:05

Rule No. 1:

If you can't do anything to improve the situation, don't do anything at all!

by lone gunman Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:05

Have YOU anything worth adding to the debate apart from the old "I cant come up with a viable arguement to a differing opinion .So I'll insult my oponent instead".

by Anonymous Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54

I would love if more people with alternative points of views, especially right wing / centre point of views, came on this newswire.

However when people like Seanin come up with consistent comments such as "it was a blessing that Britain conquered Ireland and civilized us natives" - I find myself agreeing with "curious", that it is not worth responding to people like that on this newswire.

Regards.

by Eanna Dowling Tue Aug 12, 2003 15:21

Full respect to the good doctor for his position. May your heart stay strong and your head stay clear,
Eanna

by Bard - respect to Dr. Lane Tue Aug 12, 2003 15:46

There's a grumpy old judge called Joe Mangan
Who would love the return of the hangman
he's an old alcoholic *
and a cranky old bollix
He'll have to make do with a Clare ban

Now, some folk might think it unfair
To be banned from the county of Clare
But this rude little sod
In his court, thinks he's God
So be careful my friends, what you wear

You'd better not voice an opinion
While sitting in Mangan's dominion
and speak not of Hussein
for it drives him insane
You'll be set upon by Garda minions

Just to prove he's an absolute spanner
He will confsiscate anti-war banners
then he'll bellow and roar
and he'll show you the door
and complain about YOUR lack of manners!


*Nothing against alcoholics - but they should not be judges, pilots, surgeons or presidents unless they are getting some sort of help with it.
The judges shouldn't be drunk, hungover or asleep at the bench.

by Anonymous Tue Aug 12, 2003 17:08

.

by Anon Tue Aug 12, 2003 19:12

This story was reported in todays Irish Independent and The Star and a small bit in the Irish Examiner. Not a mention in the Irish Times!! So much for our so-called "liberal" paper of record!

by Anthony Thu Aug 14, 2003 21:30

Regarding Irish resistance against war, the people I regard the most are those who put their actions into words, hold true to their principles, refuse to pay fines and don't admit to being guilty when they don't consider themselves to be.

I have the utmost respect for those such as Fintan, Eoin, Mary Kelly, and CW who have put their liberty on the line and put their thoughts and words into action. I'd also include Tim Hourigan who may as well have done time for all the hard work he's done and for the huge amount of personal free time that he's given up.

I myself wouldn't be able to make that kind of sacrifice and I respect those who do. Naturally, I wouldn't criticise anyone who does pay their fine or pleads guilty to an offence so that they get a lighter fine as I've no idea what I'd do in the situation.

I also really appreciate Fintan's reasons for not complying with the justice system. Only yesterday I said to a friend that there isn't really a tradition of activism in Ireland. She disagreed, saying that there just isn't a tradition of *non-violent* action. It was disappointing that the numbers on the streests on February 15th didn't translate into a significant percentage of people willing to take action.

I myself would be very reluctant to be arrested unless I thought that there was a good possibility of something changing for the better. For me, a symbolic action wouldn't be worth the consequences of being arrested. I couldn't afford to either pay a hefty fine or to do time in jail.

Trespassing at Shannon on March 1st when the US were so worried about the security of Shannon was (so far) the one time I made an exception. At the time many of us were of the opinion that war would start in the first week or two of March and it was going to be our last real chance of a mass action that would have any chance of stopping Ireland's participation in the war.

Respect and best wishes,
Anthony

by BlackPope Fri Aug 15, 2003 01:26 BlackPope at operamail dot com

More input to Poetry Corner

*******************************

Bold Mary had an hefty axe
the blade of gleaming steel
and every time she buried it
warmonger's face would squeal

She axt'ed-up a plane one night
embarassed mercenary fools
who had the bombers tanking there
despite judicial rules

The Irish People, sore abused
by governmental mystery
were thankful of this cunning ruse
reminder of their history

Now she's heading for a trial
ask 12 jurors what they thunk
if people with a human heart
may hack murd'rous trash to junk

Though proxy-imperialism's pimps
have clamoured for her hide
still true men like you men
recall her deed with pride

*******************************

by The Bard of Ennis (Barred from Ennis) Fri Aug 15, 2003 17:27

I'm sure we'll have a public recital soon via the BP sound system.