North City Marxist Forum

by Richard X Tue Aug 05, 2003 15:32

Since when is there going to be a debate???

by Marxist Tue Aug 05, 2003 15:50

That title for the debate is absolutely aweful. What's wrong with Connolly's fight for a socialist Ireland?

Another example of SWP's attempt to dissolve themselves and their politics into one large liberal mass?

Lets make it clear: Connolly was not just fighting for a 'better' Ireland. He was fighting for a Socialist Ireland and more importantly a Socialist World. Connolly was on the left of the workers' movement at the time alongside Lenin, Trotsky, Luxembourg, Liebnicht etc.

by Che Tue Aug 05, 2003 16:42

I was in the SWP very briefly, a few years ago. I hadn't been sectarianised by arguing on U75 at that time (didn't have a computer), so I was open to all ideas, along as they were anti-capitalism. I read anarchist, Trot, communist, green papers and leaflets with gusto, nodding my head righteously. I bought the Morning Star every day, having it ordered for me at the newsagents. I went to anti-war meetings (the Yugoslavia war) and bought books at Bookmarks. I even got my little loyalty card stamped a few times.

Then I fell for the classic Front Group tactic. I helped out with the new London Socialist Alliance, seemed like a good idea at the time. Did the leaflet drops, nice sunny day to do it, even drove M*rk St**l around in his car while he spoke through the loudspeakers around Croydon. Nice bloke, if rather posh.

Then old Nineham (even posher) signed me up for the SWP. Caught me while I was gasping for a pint, and there I was. A fully fledged member of the 'revolution'. A glossy pile of bumf came through the letterbox within a week, so professional it could have come from the HSBC. I was asked to do, yes, indeed, a paper sale in Croydon. Erm, okay. What a waste of time - and what a fucking embarrassment. Trying to hide my face in case anyone I knew saw me and thought I was a Moonie or summat. Again, the bloke I did the sale with was a decent chap, but his 'thousand-yard-stare- unnerved me somewhat.

So no more paper sales for me. The old 1571 screened most calls from complete strangers telling me about meetings they were doing and workshops and crap like that. I was getting very wary of the whole scenario - they were doing such an efficient job of putting people off Socialism that I had half a mind they were a state-run operation.

The nail in the coffin was some article in the hallowed SW which claimed that schools in London were inherently racist because black kids were getting lower exam results than any other group. Fucking cheeky bastards - I sent them a letter, which got published, telling them to concentrate on Class not Race, and was patronised by their ghost-writers for the next two weeks.

A quick phone call to the bank and that was the end of my brief, inactive, bemused daliiance with the Cliffites. They keep sending me stuff so I presume that I am still counted as a member.

Anyone else?

by Anti-capitalist Tue Aug 05, 2003 17:45

I never joined the SWP, but went to a few of their meetings. I thought well they say they are anti-capitalists, so I'll go along to hear what they have to say. Man, I did regret that. The meetings were crap. They have a lot of nerve to call that 'debate'. But the worst comes after the meeting. If they spot you and you are not a party member, the leaders come to tell you that you 'should get involved' (of course they assume, or pretend to assume, that if you are not a member of the SWP you are not 'involved'!). If you refuse, the emotional blackmailing starts: they say that you are not really committed, you don't care about socialism and they go on and on. It can be funny though. You can even get people like Rich Boy Barrett giving you lessons about commitment to the working class. All in all, though, it's a very depressing experience: it can put you off anti-capitalist politics for a long time.

by bitch - i hate the swp Tue Aug 05, 2003 21:38

i hate the swp too,yeah!!!dowm with the swp boo hiss!bitch,whine,!!

by Fergus - anti-bolshevik communist Wed Aug 06, 2003 01:56

when I was young. I went to one of their meetings in a pub. I was too eager to please and gormless at that age to say no when they applied the strong arm tactics. At the time I had just read some left communist stuff and started asking a few of the members about it. They assured me that they agreed with all the same stuff and that there was basically no difference between my ('infantile') point of view and theirs. I went on a paper sale once and hated it. I went on a couple of demos too. Eventually I just got frustrated with the evasive and condescending ways that people dealt with me and resolved not to go back. I was harrassed for months on the phone and a few poor souls were even sent out to my house. I wish I'd joined the scientologists instead - at least I could have sued something out of those bastards for the trauma.

No, i don't hate the swp. I hate anybody who behaves like that.

by Shiney Mc Shine Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:19

And back Left wing "terrorists"

Shameful: all Talk , no action

by James O'Toole - SWP Wed Aug 06, 2003 13:07 aortal2002 at yahoo dot co dot uk

It's amazing all i wanted to do was let those who were interested know about a meeting.
And the response?
As usual the vulgar screeches of the witch-hunt.
This is McCarthyism!
Stamp out the 'Reds'....I am sure the Right find this all SO amusing.
Anyway if you want to come to the meeting fine, if you don't then don't...no problem.
But less of the 'purge' please.

by Anyi-capitalist Wed Aug 06, 2003 13:35

Some people want to report their experience in the SWP, and what do we get? The SWP cadre screams about purges! Why don't you engage in the discussion and answer the points that have been made? Are the reports untrue? You think that they don't provide a fair representation of SWP practice and internal life. Then reply to the points that have been made. The real McCarthyism is your condescending attitude, your systematic refusal to engage with people. That's exactly the point some of the posters were trying to make. Maybe you don't really get it.

by PABLO MONTANA - INDIE SOCIALIST Wed Aug 06, 2003 14:10

If you give them your number you are expressing an interest in the SWP. You know what they do, you know that you will have to sell papers, you know they can be a bit annoying. Its your fault lads.

I was once a member of the SWP too and left but it was for political reasons not because 'shock horror' they expect you to help out if you join!

by Cliff Slaughter - trot watchers will know Sun Aug 10, 2003 01:23

Someone went on a paper sale and hated it??
Well here's some news, building a serious revolutionary force might not always be particularly fun! (Not that I think the SWP are doing that, but I think that to hate the SWP for asking you to do activity is fairly ridiculous)