Left Turn Needed

national | politics / elections | opinion/analysis

Friday June 20, 2003 17:42

by Justin Moran - An Phoblacht

maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

This is an article I wrote for this week's An Phoblacht and appeared with minor changes (Not yet on the net). It is part of an ongoing and open debate about the nature of republicanism taking place in the pages of the Phoblacht in the form of a series of articles and letters to the paper.

Left Turn

One of the questions asked in the aftermath of the last General Election was answered to some extent at Labour’s party conference. Faced with Sinn Féin winning their support in working class areas and the Greens taking the soft radical middle class vote that is Labour’s natural habitat, commentators wondered whether Labour would go back into the working class trenches and try to outflank Sinn Féin on the Left, or try to recapture the Green vote and capitalise on Fine Gael’s misfortune.

In his Leaders address Rabbitte spoke specifically of targeting middle class areas for support and the party’s new found support for private businesses running public services in certain circumstances indicates the party is going to go to the right, scoop up disillusioned Fine Gael voters and try to attract Greens by posing radical and being angry.

During the 2002 election campaign a journalist, on reading the Sinn Féin manifesto, asked Gerry Adams if the party was placing itself to the left of Labour to which Adams replied, half in jest, that doing so wouldn’t be hard. When the only other major political party on the left is Labour, being ideologically on the far left is remarkably easy without any particular effort.

But we’re not making it easy on ourselves. We must critically assess our General Election manifesto and realise that it didn’t add up. The numbers didn’t make sense. We pulled our punches, instead of arguing for redistribution of wealth, for massive tax increases for the better off and business, we called for a review of the tax breaks.

Worthwhile in and of itself, but not exactly radical. A Sinn Féin strategist told me that if we argued for putting up taxes we’d lose votes as the media would portray us as willing to tax everyone. This is simply not true. The success of the Scottish Socialist Party has shown it is possible for a party to argue higher taxes for the rich and lower taxes for working class people and profit from it. It makes sense, especially as numerically there are a lot more working class people than rich ones and frankly, the media is as much part of the establishment as Fianna Fáil. They are going to attack us whatever we do. Better to be attacked for being radical.

But the real hope of some Sinn Féin strategists in the election was to win middle class votes. The breakdown of results from the election campaign shows that middle class votes, of whatever preference, were rare sights in Sinn Féin stacks. It is not in their class interest to vote for us and the stigma stuck to the party by anti-republican elements in the media counts for something. And even if neither of the foregoing were true, they have plenty of other parties to choose from in casting their vote that can better represent them.

The Irish middle and upper classes have an array of choice for people to look after their class interests. In the South, middle class voters can vote for an array of candidates from the PDs, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Labour and the Greens without going against their class interests, which any socialist can tell you is the primary political motivator. The middle ground is quite crowded.

Economically, it does not make sense for middle class people to vote Sinn Féin and the idea of attracting middle class voters in large numbers is a forlorn one except for those who vote for us because of the candidate or work on the ground rather than our policies. The belief that we can win acres of middle class support is possibly given credence within the party because of the success in doing just that in the Six Counties. The difference is that in Northern politics, a Nationalist has two choices, Sinn Féin and the SDLP and with the importance of the constitutional issue we can make gains in middle class areas. That’s just not true in the South.

We need to go back to basics, to being the voice of the Irish working class and those progressive elements in the middle class who have been convinced by our arguments. Too many parties in Ireland claim to be concerned for all the people while actually being really only concerned about working class people at election time. They try to be all things to all people. We need to clearly say that we are working for the poor, the disadvantaged and the working class. The rest, quite frankly, can look after themselves well enough.

Some might argue we need to maximise our vote and the way to do this is to get into middle class areas. Plausible, but I’m not arguing we abandon the idea of getting middle class support merely that we be sure of one simple thing. We cannot change our policies and principles to attract middle class voters, we must convince them of the validity of our policies. So, no more pulling punches on taxation policy.

One element of the vote we have succeeded in bringing out is first time voters, both young people and those disillusioned with the political process. Turnout in areas where the party is strong has increased, often dramatically, in working class areas. Take the South Inner City constituency where Aengus O’Snodaigh was elected as a Sinn Féin TD last time out. The impact that Sinn Féin has had through organising and radicalising working-class communities has been staggering.

In the previous local elections and in the first nice referendum, turnout in the Cherry Orchard area would have been between 8% and 15%, one of the lowest in the state. In last year’s general election that figure rose to 30% with Sinn Féin taking between 60% and 85% in the ballot boxes. In Ballyfermot as a whole turnout rose from 30% to 50%, with Sinn Féin topping the poll in at least one-third of boxes opened.

In short, rather than change the party to attract middle class voters who have much more attractive options than Sinn Féin, the party would be better off spending its time concentrating on getting working class voters to the polls and radicalizing that support.

And to radicalise them, we need a radical political agenda. Reading through our various policy documents, especially the recently approved and excellent education document, the thought comes that we have excellent ideas about how to spend money. We’re just a little shy of saying where we will get it from.

So where do we go from here? Well we can begin by taking steps to address the party’s drift, both in policy and in rhetoric, to the centre. First off, we need to push the Ard Comhairle to ensure the Ard Fhéis motion from Dublin Sinn Féin calling for a new policy document setting out our alternative socialist economic agenda for Ireland to be presented at the next Ard Fhéis, is acted on. Simply passing a motion at Ard Fhéis level calling on the party leadership to do something, is no guarantee it will be done.

Next we need to look at our attitude to the Trade Union movement. We need to accept that the leadership of the Trade Union movement and the Labour party are by and large one and the same. The ICTU and SIPTU officials might not all have Labour membership cards in their pockets but it is clear with whom their sympathies lie. We’re not going to win them over. Let’s accept it, and move on.

So do we ignore the Trade Union movement? Absolutely not, we cannot ignore the largest mass organisation of the Irish working class and we can and must work with the Trade Union leadership. The revitalisation of the Trade Union Department is one of the most important things this party is currently doing, even if we’re not aware of it. Peace Process impasses come and go but comrades, Trade Unions are forever.

But we need to take a socialist perspective on it. We need to push for greater democratisation of the Trade Union Movement and specifically, we need, as a matter of principle, to oppose the Social Partnership process which has done more to damage the Irish Trade Union movement and less to advance Irish workers than anything William Martin Murphy could have hoped for. Our failure to pass a motion doing just that at the Ard Fhéis was a setback for socialist thinking in Sinn Féin.

Ográ have a part to play as well in this. They have to be let off the leash. Let Ográ go mad, let them get dirty, let them be aggressive and active. Let them formulate their own policy discussion documents. Give them their independence and if every now and again they embarrass the party leadership what harm? An occasional paint bomb at Government buildings or row with the cops does no-one any harm.

We also need to get the theory right too. We need to clearly, very, very clearly, say we are a socialist political party. We need to define exactly what that is. This is not a call for having interminable debates on the multitude of interpretations one can make of the writings of a bunch of dead Russian political theorists, but a call for us to assess exactly who we are. What is Sinn Féin’s policy on State ownership? What is our policy on the democratisation of industry? And don’t even get me started on the right of women to control their own bodies, something we’re still opposed to. Well done there, comrades.

Are we socialists? If so, lets start saying we are instead of using an array of rhetorical gymnastics to avoid using the ‘s’ word. We don’t want an Irish socialist republic anymore, we want an Ireland of equals. Ask, and you’ll be told an ‘Ireland of equals’ is code for an Irish socialist republic. Fair enough….why do we need a code again? Why do we describe ourselves as a republican labour party, and not a republican socialist party? More code? A cunning plan to attract Labour number twos? If our party leadership find it difficult to say the word ‘socialist’, would some-one explain to me how we plan to implement socialist policies when, not if, we are in power?

And this brings us neatly to the debacle of our party’s role in the implementation of the PFI agenda in the Six Counties. In fairness, we didn’t have a choice, but we failed to make that clear. In the South, a Government has a multitude of ways of raising the money to build schools and hospitals. In the North our Ministers were told they could have schools through PFI or they could have no schools at all.

They made the right decision, and it was a hard one to make, but we didn’t do as well as we might have done in making it clear we were doing this because the Brits weren’t allowing us any alternative. We didn’t vigorously make the case against PFI, we should have been howling at the moon in anger and frustration and calling on any person and any party, regardless of what community they’re from to join us in fighting it.

Our mistake wasn’t in implementing PFI, we didn’t have much choice in that, our mistake was in acquiescing so mildly.

So are we socialists? Are you a socialist? If not, what are we, what are we? Another anaemic social democrat party with a lingering cordite induced odour of revolution? Democratic Left with a nationalist edge? Where are we going? How are we going to get there? What is it exactly we’re going to build on the ruins of the Six Counties and this ridiculously pretentious Free State of theirs? Simple questions, complex answers. It’s past time to find them.

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Comments (25 of 25)

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Sinn Fein are not left wing

by Mark

Fri Jun 20, 2003 18:22

Sinn Féin are not a party of the left. There are plenty of reasons why but here are just a few:

1) Provisional Sinn Féin broke away from Official Sinn Féin because Fianna Fáil and Southern big business interests refused to fund them and supply them with arms unless they broke away from the Marxists that remained in Official Sinn Féin. How can a party formed out of ditching their left wing comrades to get money from Fianna Failers and Southern business interests possibly claim to be left wing?

2) Sinn Féin does not stand up for minorities. Take for example the ex prisoners association which tried to buy a house for a few ex-prisoners in Drumcondra a couple of years back. While Joe Costello backed the right of ex prisoners to have somewhere to live, quite ironically Sinn Fein and Nicky Kehoe (himself a former convict!) led the charge against the purchase. Just to be clear we were talking about the purchase on ONE entire house in an estate.

3) Sinn Féin was formed out of destroying the genuine working class unity that existed in the late sixties in the six counties. The various left wing parties and labour parties which had widespread support from Protestant and Catholic working class voters The provos abandoned the civil rights campaign in favour of murdering Protestant working class people. Would any real socialist party try and build class unity in this way?

4) Sinn Féin voted for Berie Ahern to be Taoiseach in 1997. They actually supported the formation of the right wing FF/PD government! What kind of socialist would do this?

There's plenty of other reasons. People should add their own.

Query

by Seán

Fri Jun 20, 2003 18:41

Would you rather Sinn Féin were Left or Right Wing?
If your animosity to Sinn Féin has clouded your judgement so much that you believe that the cause of workers in Ireland would be bettered by Sinn Féin moving to the right then by all means continue and add criticisms.

There was a discussion a while ago on the release of a statement by Seamus Healy TD calling for a Left Wing alliance. In the debate that followed many people called on the socialists within Sinn Féin to organise a left-wing opposition within Sinn Féin.

The article above is not calling for that but rather addressing our faults and trying to win over the whole party to see that it is in Sinn Féin´s interest to be Socialist, in creating Socialist economic policies, in implementing those policies and in stating how Sinn Féin intends to implement Socialist policies.

Shinners are left

by Janus

Fri Jun 20, 2003 18:45

A couple of the points you make are true, the rest sounds like you have been a frequent reader of Workers Party material over the years.

The bit about them voting for Bertie in 97 is a good point and one they've never really addressed. I was still a party member at the time and I remember being surprised about it. I was leaving anyway, but it didn't help me stay.

I don't know about the Drumcondra thing and would want further details before making a judgement one way or the other but it certainly sounds bad.

The other two points are just nonsense. I doubt anyone other than Tomas MacGiolla really believes FF 'set up' the provies to destroy Goulding & Co. There's never been as much as a shred of credible evidence. It's nonsense.

And the 'RA didn't murder working class Protestant people, it was engaged in armed struggle for national liberation. Shooting a soldier is not murder. And yes, civilians died as a result of IRA actions. Civilians die in war, even in revolutions. The IRA minimised them as much as possible and the proportion of people killed by the IRA who were civilians is a lot smaller than the proportion killed by State forces.

One of the key things that annoys me about the Left in Ireland, and kept me in Sinn Fein for longer probably than I would have stayed, is their complete blindness to the fact that a militant anti-imperialist struggle was being waged ninety miles up the road from them.

In fairness, some comrades, especially in the SWP, were quite supportive at times but generally republicans were abandoned. As an anti-imperialist while I might have disagreed with some of Sinn Fein's policies, I joined the party because it was the only one in Ireland actually engaged day to day in anti-imperialist struggle.

It's drifted to the right since and I've left for a variety of reasons including that drift but there are a lot of good people and a lot of committed socialists in it.

On the article itself, I'm always impressed when articles critical of the leadership of a party is published in a party publication. More of this I say. I look forward to an SWP exclusive on 'Trotsky: He was a bit mad really" and a piece in Workers Solidarity entitled "Anarchism, why it can't work"

well done justin

by billy oh!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 19:21

nice to see someone actually being honest about their politics, i can't remember the last time someone from a party actually critisised the way things were going. I still wouldn't be a fan of the shinners [i'd rather be smashing the state:)]but fair play to ya
it sure beats the way the trots all parrot the exact same line on issues
whats the betting it all gets thrown back at you on this.....

Mark, Ever Hear Of Glasshouses?

by Durutti

Fri Jun 20, 2003 19:50

SP are not left:

1. They support Loyalists 'right' to parade through Catholic areas.

2. They condemned Direct Action at Shannon.

3. They took the side of the airport cops at Shannon. No one in the SP has yet to condemn Domnic Haughs remarks in support of the cops.

4. Joe Higgins called GNAW virtual warriors at the very moment ten of them were being arrested by the cops.

5. The SP refused to support an anti war lobby of an ICTU conference in case it uopset their union boss friends.

6. The SP took the side of the cops at Evian. In the latest Voice, Mini Mao Michael O'Brien praises the restraint of the State. Amnesty International condemned the cops.

Go Away Durutti

by Fed up

Fri Jun 20, 2003 20:28

People have had enough with the obsession. Go get a life or psychiatric help, whichever is more appropriate.

Connolly, Costello, Devlin-McAliskey... MORAN?!?!?!?!

by Tom Shelley

Sat Jun 21, 2003 09:25

Boulder, CO USA

Justin- This is amazing. I hope the leadership reads it. I also saw your letters in AP/RN and the Irish Times (that was you, wasn't it?). I'm tempted to just marvel at your brillance, but there are a couple comments I'd like to make.

A few points about your article:

1. I know I might sound like a broken record, but SF also needs to be more consistent with their principles when they deal with the U.S. Meeting Bush at Hillsborough was wrong and I believe did more damage to SF's goals than would have been done if they had boycotted the meeting. If they want to be taken seriously as proponents of GLBT liberation, they should also boycott the NY City St. Patrick's Day Parade. I'm not saying SF should cut off all contact with American conservatives, but they should be careful not to compromise their values in doing so.

Also, changing their approach to America will stop Joe Higgins from saying SF is "right-wing in America." I'm not saying it's important to appease the SP, but acting like socialists in America should probably get you some more votes in Ireland. And it will broaden your support base in the U.S. to include people who, in post-9/11 America, will support you and won't be nearly as turned off by alleged connections to the FARC.

2. Although obviously developing a SF brand of socialism is for you all to determine, I might send you a few thoughts I have on the topic. Whatever theory you settle on, I think that's a good idea, as it will help shape your strategy, recruiting, and relationships with other groups.

3. I hope they do let Ogra off the leash. Youth wings should be autonomous from their parent orgs, and Ogra could, I think, develop a mass struggle in the North to replace the armed struggle. They can energize the party and the nationalist community even more than they already are.

4. I hope you're wrong about Labour. Although I'm not very familiar with their record, I used to be a member of their American sister org and am not ready to write them off. Besides, if you and/or Labour can yank the bulk of workers away from voting FF, there should be plenty of votes for both.

A RESPONSE TO ANOTHER COMMENT:

This is my understanding of the Official-Provisonal split. The founders of the PIRA were mostly driven away by the socialist drift. But there also the softening of opposition to the Northern state and the abandonement of weapons. I believe that these initial founders were in touch with FF businessmen, but were not influenced by them, and the contact didn't last more than 1-2 years.

I have also gotten the impression that after August 1969 the vast bulk of recruits were motivated by the events of that month and saw OIRA as having failed them and PIRA as offering them a chance to defend their communities and get the Brits out. And I have a feeling that many of those young recruits were radicals of some sort. Remember that People's Democracy also supported the Provos in the early 1970s.

Tom

A debate that needs to take place

by Joe Mac

Sat Jun 21, 2003 14:27

As someone who worked closely with Justin during the last general election I would like to commend his honesty in attempting to map a way forward for the party. Too often our activists parrot the line that certain decisions taken at leadership level need to seen in the context of pushing forward the Peace Process. There is rarely a debate about pushing forward a socialist agenda.

However, the party is in the difficult position of developing a number of strategies which tend to create tension amongst leadership and the activist base. On the one hand the northern leaderhip are involved in ongoing intense and senstive negotiations with the Brits, Dublin and the US. That is their focus. Because of this there is a danger that they become removed from what is happening on the ground in the south. In the south we are attempting to build a radical left wing activist based party that should, as Justin said, be the voice of the working class.

The clearest symbol of this tension was evidenced during the visit of George Bush to Belfast. Dublin activists were appalled at the prospect of Adams meeting Bush. At a leadership level it was felt that the party had to meet Bush in the context of the Peace Process negotiations which were at a sensitive stage. In Dublin members were incredulous that this could happen without reference to how it might impact on the party and it's base in the south.

The party has not yet developed a clear strategy in the south. The Peace Process still takes precedence. The views of Dublin activists were not really taken into account when the party leadership decided to go ahead and meet Bush. Whilst most could understand the reasoning behind it the reverse wasn't the case in that the leadership didn't seem to understand why there was such a huge level of anger amongst party activists.

There are however, a number of developments that offer encouragement. The work of Martina Anderson on the All Ireland agenda will offer a strategy that marries the Peace Process with the development of an all Ireland socialist republic. Whilst this will take time to develop it is the clearest sign yet that the party recognises there is a gap in strategic thinking. A Peace Process strategy cannot operate in isolation to the work the party needs to conduct in the south. Whilst the party leadership negotiates Britains withrawal from Ireland we must also keep our eye to the ultimate goal of an all Ireland socialist republic.

I do believe that as long as the party has activists such as Justin pushing forward this view (and despite what others on the left might think there are many) the struggle to create the Republic envisaged by Connolly that would act as a beacon for oppressed nations throughout the world will be safe. Keep up the good work comrade.

Well done Justin - SF & Everyone, do not sacrifice your principles

by Anonymous

Sat Jun 21, 2003 15:21

Well done Justin. Good article. Enough of political, tactical, meanderings. Sinn Fein should know clearly and precisely what they stand for and what kind of society they would like to see exist in Ireland.

There is a converse relationship between the knowledge of what ones stand's for and the degree of political meanderings in order to obtain votes. I.e. the more you know what you stand for the less you will shift your politics in order to obtain votes, and vice versa.

The reason FG have had two major inquisitions into what they stand for in the last decade alone, is because they were so desperate to obtain votes in the shade of declining popularity that they adjusted their politics to whatever would obtain them more votes. In their desperate attempts to save themselves, they killed themselves by losing their identity and scarifying their principles.

DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR PRINCILPES AND WHAT YOU BELEIVE IN FOR THE SAKE OF GAINING POWER.

How can one look at oneself in the mirror in the morning, or contemplate the hour of their death, if one succumbs to this?

Socialism in the South connected to anti-imperialism in the North

Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:21

I think it might be a mistake to see these two as seperate. I understand that republicans in the North have invested a lot in the peace process and their communities depend on it's outcome, and thus it is understandable they might be a little more concerned about that than the horrible health-care system in the South, or even privitisation in the North. As the saying goes, when you're draining a sawmp full of alligators, it's easy to forget about draining the swamp.

But there are a lot of reasons why the concerns of southern republican socialists are not incompatible with those of northerners (most of whom are also socialist, but a bit more concerned about the alligators).

I believe, and I'm pretty sure the SF leadership believe this also, that having a strong voice in southern politics helps the peace process, as well as helping get more people elected in the North. There is no doubt that SF gets votes in the South largely because of it's left-wing platform, but they'll lose votes if they're inconsistent.

Similarily, outside the U.S., most current and potential SF supporters are leftists; and in the U.S. there are huge progresive movements that should be supporting SF, and will be more likely to if SF is consistently leftist. If Adams had refused to meet Bush, it would have totally embarrassed him, it would have gotten wide coverage, and the anti-war movement globally would have loved SF for it.

I could be wrong, but I think it might also have a positive effect on republicans and the nationalist community in the North. If socialism were clearly, articuately, and consistently included in the goals of republicanism, it would probably inject more energy into the struggle.

I also imagine it might improve the chances of attracting working-class/progressive Protestants to the struggle, as happened briefly in the 1930s.

And in a capitalist 32-County Ireland, reconciliation between nationalists and unionists will be dificult as they will likely have to compete with each other for jobs and scarce public services (housing, etc.). So building a socialist economy in the South, and of course the movements and political power involved in that task, will be beneficial to the unification of Ireland.

Just some things to consider.

Tom

Gobsmacked!

Sun Jun 22, 2003 16:07

So the SP can make attacks on whoever they want, but you are not even allowed to ask questions in return! Anyone who questions of the SP is in need of psychiatric help?

Now that sounds familiar. Of corse! Dissidents in the USSR were sent to psychiatric hospitals for questioning THE PARTY.

Durutti

by Fed Up

Sun Jun 22, 2003 17:47

Why do you assume that I am a member of the SP. In fact I doubt very much if anyone from the SP is bothering to use indymedia anymore. The problem is there are a lot of others not using it either because of your antics. Do you reallly think that it is only the SP that you are pissing off with your petty obsession?

Idiots like Durrutti are fucking up Indymedia

by David Cockrell - none

Sun Jun 22, 2003 20:04

Idiots like Durrutti are fucking up Indymedia with their childish obsessive crap. Why don't you try to contribute to indymedia constructivly by having reasoned comments and posting news instead of your relentless drivel.

I'm sick of it, I think we should give serious consideration to automatically adding all Durruttis comments to the hidden list.

Repetitive Posting Can Be Boring

by pat c

Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:23

But its worth bearing in mind that 'Durutti' was responding to a SP member, Mark, who posts as prolifically as 'Durutti'. If the SP are going to distort history in their attempts to smear Republicans it is inevitable there will be a payback. Or are there really non-SP members out there who believe that the SP is above criticism?

It would have helped if Durutti had stuck to the North and related issues in his questions to the SP. Using the scattergun approach leaves him open to valid criticism. Suggesting that someone is mad because they query the SP vision of reality is not genuine analysis or any sort of political criticism. It is a Stalinist tactic that is used all too often by SP members and their lackeys.

SF not left

by ron - sp

Mon Jun 23, 2003 16:29

limerick

look at the policies sinn fein ministers have pursued in the northern executive: accepting the "need" to close hospitals, almost viciously opposing term-time workers' campaign for proper working conditions/contracts (to pick just two).
SF MLAs don't seem too upset about implementing New Labour's Old Tory policies (whenever the Assembly isn't suspended)!

then there's the shenanigans that went on in sligo: SF councillors dropped opposition to bin charges in return for the mayoralty because they were in a voting pact with FF!!!

some people have very romantic notions about the "armed struggle" (or "long war", or whatever you want to call it); what it was, where it was coming from and where it was leading, and what it has achieved.

questions people should ask themselves:
what is anti-imperialism? (what is imperialsm?)
what is socialism? (what is capitalism?)

i wish there were some more people here who were interested in having discussions, instead of merely trying to character-assassinate contributors with false charges, or at the very best by debating through "absolutisms".

The Same Old Story

by Hebe

Mon Jun 23, 2003 18:01

The SP answer none of the points put to them but continue their attacks on SF.

Well SP member, are you proud to be a member of a party which thinks the Orange Order has the right to march down the Garvaghy Road? Does that make you feel more of a socialist.

The SP have dragged the name of Connolly into the gutter.

Ron

Mon Jun 23, 2003 18:05

Its the SP who need a wake up call regarding Imperialism - and Totskys writings on Ireland:

"The British Socialist who fails to support by all positive means the uprising in Ireland, Egypt and India against the London plutocracy - such a Socialist deserves to be branded with infamy if not with a bullet, but in no case merits either a mandate or the confidence of the proletariat."

Leon Trotsky 7 August 1920.

"The revolutionary tradition of the national struggle is a precious good."

Leon Trotsky, 6 June 1936. (From his letter to Nora Connolly O'Brien.)

False Charges?

Mon Jun 23, 2003 18:08

Ron, why dont you idetify which of the charges made against the SP are false?

and while your at it ron

by Killian

Tue Jun 24, 2003 02:01

and Ron could you add to the list of capitalist 'crimes' that SF committed in the 6 counties assembly. You say in your piece "to name but two" but like the sligo bin charges bit, these two mentioned are always the same and more interestingly always are reduced to tabloid type headlines which distort the truth.

Pat C, Thanks for the quotes - will come in handy not doubt :)

and while the subject of dead russians, well done Justin on a honest, insightful and (shock horror) easily readable piece of socialism. In particular I liked your usage of humor and fact to get home your points. If all on the left could try to write in your style we might all actually end up learning something about each other and ourselves.

As a test I tried to wade through the post about the SSP being accused of being bad socialists for not wanting to nationalise Tescos . I actually finished the post and am amazed that people in serious political parties go to the lenghts they do to have a public divisive argument over esssentailly a nothing comment. And the dullness of the argument...well (shrug).

Killian

Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:28

I'll get you some more qoutes. "The Communists and the Irish Revolution", edited by Rayner Lysaght, is a great source for comments from Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky and the COMINTERN. Stuff that the SP usually hide from their members.

Sinn Fein's Left Wing Policies Mean Nothing - Just Like the Labour Party

by John Meehan

Tue Jun 24, 2003 18:49

Sinn Fein's left wing policies mean nothing - because, like Pat Rabbitte's Labour Party, the organisation headed by Gerry Adams leaves the door open to coalition with right wing parties.

Leaving to one side this or that detail about what the party did or did not do in the recent past - this is the essential principled point people should focus on.

Sinn Féin had to leave all their left wing policies behind them when the party went into coalition with the right wing parties in the 6 Counties - Trimble and Paisley's Unionists, the SDLP - exactly the same as the Labour Party has always done in the 26 Counties when in coalition with either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil.

It is a spectacle of "talk left, act right".

It was because Sinn Féin needed to get back the Stormont Assembly it had to sacrifice its policy of opposing the USA invasion of Iraq, and give Geroge Bush some public relations cover both in the White House and in Hillsborough Castle; and don't be surprised if Bush contemptuously tramples on Irish politicians again, if it suits his public relations needs.

What we need is a recomposed left that means what it says in regard to elections - the most important non-negotiable part of the platform should be very simple - no coalition under any circumstances with the right, and vote on each issue on its merits in the parliament.

Follow the example, in this regard, of the Scottish Socialist Party. And allow for differences to be freely and honestly debated.

An additional element is necessary in regard to any future Stormont Elections - candidates should refuse to be designated "Nationalist" or "Unionist", and in this way register a principled opposition to this system of institutionalised sectarianism. Let us look forward to a growing band of "dissenters" who will oppose at every turn the dismal sectarianism, and in-built class collaborationism, of the Stormont Assembly.

Without that, we can foresee the following farcical epilogue to the Official/Provisional split of the republican movement in 1969/70 : after the 2007 election in the 26 Counties : one wing (the Officials)is in alliance with Fine Gael and others (maybe the Greens); the other (the Provisionals) is linked to Fianna Fáil and possible others (maybe the Progressive Democrats).

Can it be prevented? Yes. Time for the rest of the sincere left to put secondary differences aside and get together with a coherent alternative.

it is now time to see who is a diplomat and who is a street fighter.

by 23

Fri Nov 28, 2003 18:07

John Fee, of the SDLP, made his feelings about the electorate pretty clear as he faced defeat in Newry and Armagh last night.

"They have put street fighters in instead of diplomats and peacemakers," he said at the count centre in Banbridge.

from update section Belfast Telegraph.

Thing is since the 1974 Monty Python debut of Ian Paisley many irish who never saw fit to countenance "strenghthening of the police forces" did become diplomats and street fighters, if the SDLP have lost, they have lost only becuase they were so myopic, the world has changed. Even the DUP saw fit to put a road sign in their propaganda.

Where's Justin?

by Concerned

Fri Nov 28, 2003 18:12

I thought this was an interesting article but wtf is Justin.
Not another one of the disappeared.

hee hee hee.

by .where's Justin?

Fri Nov 28, 2003 18:16

where's Justin??
we demand our usual SF commentary and analysis.
How does it feel when the Irish Independent write "tiocfaidh ár lá" has been fulfilled?
How does it feel when the Belfast Telgraph call you street fighters and not diplomats?

Now we haven't ever called you a diplomat Justin, but you're trustworthy, and you're "very clear".

where's the response?

he's in the pub.

by in the pub.

Fri Nov 28, 2003 20:19

with Matt and the party elders. allow them their hours. please.
Paisley won thirty years of comedy value and recognition from Monty Python in 1974. series 60. I always found him interesting, patriarch isn't he? Preacher man and daddy, business man and toupee wearing Monty Python protesting protestant. Most of Ireland feel they know "just where they are" with Ian.
But then time changed.
The DUP have just won an election, with Stormont place of their culture, and Carson icon of their culture on their party political literature. And a traffic sign.

Now neither Justin nor Ian gave you that traffic sign.
& neither Justin nor Ian are in the position or will be soon to offer anyone a "road map".

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