Bin Charges and Protecting the Environment

by Worried Sat Jun 14, 2003 18:36

Your beard is a threat to the environment.

by Gregor Kerr Sat Jun 14, 2003 13:49 gregorkerr at eircom dot net

Thanks Justin for clarifying the SF position. It is now clear that SF haven't got either the bottle or the balls for the fight on this issue. You and I both know that the only way the bin tax will be abolished is through mass non-payment. Put simply - if people don't pay, it can't be collected. This is not about criticising those who are intimidated into paying. It _is_ about putting forward strong cogent arguments which will convince people to join the boycott (up to 70% have already done so) and about building a strong campaign which will defend non-payers when the Council takes them to court or refuses to collect their bins.
It is clear from your answer Justin that the SF position is a long way from this.

by An Phoblacht Sat Jun 14, 2003 00:26

Justin asks the same question in this weeks issue of An Phoblacht, check it out yourself.

by Sean Heffernan - Sp Fri Jun 13, 2003 14:22

I am a member of the South Dublin Campaign against the refuse charges. I have recently been elected as Co-ordinator for the Tallaght area. (If fact Justin spoke to me by phone, to confirm that Sean Crowe will be attending a public meeting on the issue on the 23rd, so he has some idea of who I am). Sean Crowe attented the founding meeting of the campaign againt Refuse charges. This meeting took place in the abberley Court Hotel, in December 2001. The meeting was attended by many individuals who had been active in the Water Charges campaign. (I did no0t play a part in the Water Charges campign, as I was only a youngfella at the time they were introduced!)
At this meeting the formation of an overseeing committee was motted, and accepted by those rpesent. Many individuals signed up to work on the committee, which would meet once a month. When asked if he wou,d join the committee and play an active role in it, Sean Crowe declinhed the offer, citing lack of time due to an increasing workload, as his reason for doing so. He did, however, promise that at least 1 member of his party would be mandadted to join the newly established co-ordinating committee and actively work alongside the other members, to fight for the abolition of this charge. Every month since that founding meeting, the Co=ordinatiing committee has met to discuss the relevant issues, and plot the next course of action etc. Not one member of Sinn Fein has ever attended a meeting of this group.

The Secretary of the campign Mick Murphy (Socialist Party public Rep for Dublin South West), has written to sean crowe on 2 OCCASIONS to ask that he, and his organistion publicly call for mass non-payment, and to play an active role in the campaign. We are still waiting for them, to fulfuil both requirements.

The only 'campaigning' Sinn Fein have done on this issue in the area, is to simply raise their hand in the Council Chamber, and vote 'no' to the charge, and print short articles in 'The Fenian' which is delivered to all houses in the area.

I could go off and do up a website on this issue and simply drop a leaflet around the doors saying I disagree with the charge - but that alone would never build a campaign, or be bqle to give people the determination to refuse to pay the charge, knowing a strong campaign has been built. This weekend I will be dropping off leaflets to various people in the Parish I live in, so they cna elafter their road etc, on this issue. The elaflet is to inform people of developments to date, and about the publin meeting on the 23rd of June. I only know of 1 Sinn Fein supporter in my area (I'm sure there are a lot more), this person used to leaflet his area during the Water charges campaign, but now refuses to leaflet his area for the Refuse Charges campaign. I would sincerely love to work with both Sinn Fein and Labour on this issue, and would co-operate to the fullest with any member of their organisations who got directly involved with the campaign. Even if it was a FF or FG member -so long as they were determined to see the abolishment of this double tax, and would work as best they could in playing their part to acheive this aim.

one last point - am I correct in now reading it, that Sinn Fein are NOT calling for mass non payment of the Refuse charges, then??

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Fri Jun 13, 2003 09:57 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

The Bill will be passed because the votes are there to pass it on the right. What might be possible is that anti-Bin Tax TDs can delay the thing so that it is not passed before the end of the Dáil term, giving campaigners the summer to crank up the protests. Whether this is possible or not we're not sure, we're trying, but Government TDs want to cut debate short for the very same reason.

In answer to Gregor, Seán Crowe has not paid his Bin Tax, nor do we believe that our opposition to the Bin Tax needs the vindication of other people to be valid. Sinn Fein's position, or rather the position of our elected reps is very simple. They're not paying the Bin Tax, here's why, the decision is up to you. We're not going to criticise people who pay the Charges simply because they were intimidated to do so.

As for Tallaght, Sinn Fein speakers have addressed any meeting they have been invited to and will be addressing other meetings in the area soon. Ask your questions of them.

by Stephen Fri Jun 13, 2003 01:27

One size fits all bin tax is bad policy, but bin tax as an idea is fair- if you are going to produce rubbish, you should pay to dipose of it. The "polluter pays" argument goes as much for consumer as for producer.
Instead of giving out the dead elephant fitting wheelie bins, councils could charge according to size of bin- there is more incentive that way for householders to recycle, and more incentive for consumers to pressure manufacturers to reduce packaging waste. For this to be effective, of course, councils need to provide proper recycling arrangements, not just pay lipservice to the concept.
The other comment I have about bin tax is that local councils have to start imposing some form of rates, like it or not. They are too dependent on central funding at the moment.
What alternatives do the anti-bin tax people have to the bin tax? I'd like to hear something more realistic than "increase corporate taxes." This may be the fairest form of taxation, but it is unrealistic to believe that it will happen to any great extent given our current politics economy.

by Gregor Kerr Thu Jun 12, 2003 21:40 gregorkerr at eircom dot net

Justin
Will SF for once and for all come out and publicly support the 'Don't Pay' position? In Tallaght the lack of involvement by SF in building the campaign has been obvious, and Sean Crowe has not publicly endorsed the call to refuse to pay. Why??

by Terry Thu Jun 12, 2003 19:06

Is it a forgone conclusion that all the FFs, PDs and FGers will pass this Bill?

Indeed it is certainly another attack on our democratic rights. It seems as soon as the
public finds any method to oppose their political masters, they then outlaw that method.