'No to NAMA' Street Protest

by T Thu Aug 20, 2009 15:03

This image surmires the state of this country today and how the public feel. It explains the rapid rise of the above campaign.

Say no the baNAMA republic

by James Kelly Fri Aug 21, 2009 16:21

Well done on this initiative and the September 12 rally, I think it will catch fire. E Kenny can smell the smoke and came out today pledging to vote against the measure.

Does anyone know when the vote is being taken, will it be taken on September 16 ?

If that is the case the planned September 19th rally may be academic.

by Ordinary Joe Soap Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:07

Hi James, they're good points you make. Without disparaging the organisers of both protests; indeed I commend them for organising them; and I Will Be Present At Both Marches; I feel it can be a bit pointless marching to an empty Dáil (i.e. on a Saturday). They won't be there to hear our huge explosion of anger; and they'll just be laughing at us all the way to the bank; to excuse the pun. That's why I have issued a Call-Out For All Of Us To Organise an Anti-NAMA March to the Dáil on Wednesday, September 16th; the day that the Dáil is discussing (Possibly voting on?) the NAMA Legislation (See indymedia.ie article/93657). Of course I think that the Other Two protests Should Still Go Ahead; and I don't think that a March to the front gates of Leinster House on the Wednesday, the 16th will take away from the huge numbers that I think will also attend the two demos on the 12th and the 19th. Plus it will ratchet up the media coverage and interest to have a demo on the same day that NAMA is being debated in Dáil Eireánn.

by no to nama Sun Aug 23, 2009 00:31

There should be marches in all of the major cities, as most people won't be able to make it to Dublin. Plus the point needs to be driven home to the local politicians.

Any word on anyone organising anything on that front?

by Ordinary Joe Soap Sun Aug 23, 2009 07:55

Yes; you're dead right 'by no to nama'! "There should be marches in all of the major cities," but I would go further. Not only should "There should be marches in all of the major cities," there should be marches in all of the major towns in Ireland. For example; during the Irish Ferries National Day of Action a few years ago; not only were there there marches in all of the major cities, there were marches in all of the major towns; even in Rosslare; a fairly small town; where over a thousand people turned out. Unfortunately; 'by no to nama' I don't have any word yet on anybody organising anything on that front; but as soon as I hear anything about Marches outside of Dublin being organised; I will give all the information out here on Indymedia. If anybody else knows of Anti-NAMA protests outside of Dublin being organised please let us know.

by Angry Sun Aug 23, 2009 22:12

Best of luck, everyone with half a brain should turn up

by Bit Cynical Mon Aug 24, 2009 17:52

There are many campaigns and organisations who have been around for years fighting the good fight. Suddenly a guy comes along and is modest enough to call his newly minted group The Irish Peopoes Union!

Please! You would be better off working with the established groups who are trying to build real demonstations rather than engaging in this Walter Mitty style behaviour,

by Ordinary Joe Soap Mon Aug 24, 2009 18:24

The above 'comment' from 'Bit Cynical' is a Fianna Fáilure troll to deliberately disrupt and derail the mounting flood tide of opposition to the setting up of NAMA; who can't even spell properly. There's no such word as "Peopoes" 'Bit Cynical'. Can't you not even spell properly 'Bit Cynical' when you send a troll? I think that instead of being abused and insulted by anonymous (More than likely Fianna Fáilure) trolls; the people who set-up The Irish Peoples Union should be applauded for launching a Campaign Against the setting-up of NAMA and I'm 100% behind them; and I will be at both Anti-NAMA Marches already organised for Saturday, September 12th and Saturday, September 19th; and the one that will hopefully happen when the Dáil debates the NAMA Legislation on Wednesday, September 16th.

by Bit Cynical Tue Aug 25, 2009 19:14

My how you react to a little criticism!

My point is that no one knows who the organisers of this demo are. They (he?) have no track record of fighting against cuts, supporting strikers or supporting the unemployed. If anyone idslikely to be FF hacks then its a group that appears out of nowhere and organises a protest a week before one which is supported by trade unions and progressive organisations.

The IPU protest is likely to be tiny. This will then be seized on by the rightwing media to suggest that there is no real opposition to NAMA or cutbacks in an attempt to damage the GENUINE demos on 16 & 19 September,

Support those who have a track record, not those who have appeared from nowhere and who have the neck to call themselves the Irish Peoples Union.

The organisers of the demos on 16 & 19 September should make it clear that they have nothing to do with the self styled Irish Peoples Union.

by No to NAMA Wed Aug 26, 2009 01:11

Bit Cynical you wrote that "The IPU protest is likely to be tiny." I beg to disagree Bit Cynical. Judging from the feedback I'm getting the Anti NAMA March on September 12th is going to be massive as indeed are the two other Anti Nama Marches on September 16th and September 19th and I am actively encoraging everybody that I know to attend all three Marches and I will be on all three Marches myself. I don't know anybody involved with the Irish Peoples Union but it seems to me that they are ordinary men women and children otherwise known as 'the silent majority' who are not currently involved in any polticial organisations or parties but for whom the NAMA legislation is the final straw. It's great that these people are becoming politicised and they should be applauded and encoraged not discouraged just because they aren't members of any politicial party or organisation. If we were to start adopting that approach we would go nowhere and it would be the same boring couple of thousand people turning up for the same boring old March from A to B on the same boring old Saturday Marching to a building which is closed because it is a Saturday which makes the same old boring March on the same old boring Saturday pointless and irrelevant. Well I and many others have had enough of this dead end approach and we now know and realise that is time for a new approach and for fresh ideas.

by Jerry Cornelius Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:14

I have to admit that I'm not convinced about this. This "group" seem to have no experience of organising anything yet they call a demonstration when other demonstrations have already been organised. Surely it is best to work with other groups rather than to think that you have come down from the mountain with tablets of stone?

What if DCTU, WSM, SWP, SP, SF, Eirigi, CP, WP had all organised different demonstrations? People would say that it was crazy.

Well its equally crazy for the IPU, an organisation just set up, to call a seperate demonstration. I think its a case of hubris on the part of the founder.

by peadar oceallaigh Thu Aug 27, 2009 02:07

IRISH TIMES 26.8.2009

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0826....html

what can you say, its a con costing €90 billion, it will commit Ireland to unpayable debt for ever our children and childrens children, and in a recession (when there is no money ? ) with mass unemployment, no schools for special needs, and cuts everywhere including vital cancer services..... there is €90 billion for a "bad bank" to get rid of debts the banks caused ? Its a huge con which the media is coaxing people to accept.

by Ordinary Joe Soap Thu Aug 27, 2009 16:16

Jerry, did you not even bother to read the very wise and sensible comments from No to NAMA above? I happen to think that they are speaking commonsense and they echo the views of the vast majority of people; especially those who are not yet politicised or members of campaigning groups or politicial parties; and I agree 100% with what No to NAMA says. I also agree with No to NAMA about the folly and uselessness that Marching to a building that's closed because it is a Saturday can sometimes be. I notice that you said nothing about that Jerry Cornelius. Do I take it that you agree Jerry about always having Marches on a Saturday; which be pointless at times because the offices are closed? That's not to knock the two Anti-NAMA Marches happening on Saturday the 12th and 19th of September; Both of which will be huge; and which I will be supporting; as well as whatever March occurs on the Wednesday; the 16th of September.

by JC Thu Aug 27, 2009 17:45

Obviously you did not read my comments.

To recap:

The "IPU" has no track record in organising protests nor has anyone publically associated with it.

Why did a group which appeared out of nowhere call a demo? Wasnt that a little arrogant? Wasnt it also arrogant for their founder to adopt such a title?

If the WSM, SP, SWP, SF, WP, DCTU all called seperate demos wouldnt that be regarded as an act of folly? Isnt it equally stupid for an organisation with no record to do so?

I have seen no evidence of the "IPU" being capable of doing somthing "different" on a a Saturday.

I think this is a case of arrogance that will be shown to be hubris on the part of the "IPUs" founder.

by Blacbloc Fri Aug 28, 2009 20:33

What the hell is this stupid group doing organising another march so close to the main one? It is utterly confusing for people. Im in no doubt that there are only two possibilities here: that the organisers are so arrogant and stupid that they don't see what they are doing or they are deliberately trying to confuse. I'm opting for the latter explanation: IPU are spreading their confusion elsewhere.

Anyone who is interested in protesting against NAMA should first and foremost attend the march on the 12th September, 2pm Garden of Remembrance. A lot of effort has gone into organising it.

by T Fri Sep 11, 2009 09:17

It is vital that people realize what a millstone around our necks that NAMA will be for at least the next 30 years. What is happening is the equivalent of the way undeveloped countries were saddled with massive debt during the 1980s and from which many of them never really recovered.

We have seen the massive cuts already made, with 3.5 billion euro in the last round and yet this same amount was then headed over to Anglo Irish Bank to help get them out of their tight spot, even though we know this is nowhere nearly enough. Between them the banks during the boom lent approximately 100 billion euro to property developers and this is a figure derived by Prof. Morgan Kelly who was one of the first to call the whole thing a bubble during those years. So if 3.5 billion caused so much pain, then people ought to really wake up and realize that NAMA dwarfs this. The money that needs to be ultimately extracted from taxpayers and social services is not even 30 billion or 60 billion, but as high as 90 billion!

If we go down this road, there will be utter devastation. The government last year was saying NAMA could cost 90 billion and maybe with us for 15 to 30 years. When you consider that at the start of the various tribunals we were told that they were only gojng to cost a few million instead of 100s of millions and last a few years instead of a decade, then if these were the figures the government was initally quoting about NAMA, then the true figure is a lot higher.

They have begun to backtrack on these figures because they realize how frightening they are, but at the same time, the consensus up to recently that they governement would be paying only a 30% "haircut" on the price of the NAMA properties. That means they would pay 70c for every Euro of every over bit of priced land or half finished apartment block. And it ought to be remembered that about one third of the property is abroad in places like London.

However the recent High Court case involving Liam Carroll has begun to get people focused and has resulted in some debate and what has come to light is that prices of these NAMA properties have already plunged 70% but the government. But since the government seemed to be going on the basis of only a 30% fall, then we are paying way over the odds.

Indeed recent reports, suggest the main Irish banks will buy out the property loans of ACC Bank of Liam Carroll and that way it will go on the NAMA banks. The reason is because, if there is a fire sale now, the banks will lose 70% of their loan value, but by taking it over and handing it to NAMA, they hope to only lose 30%. That represents a huge saving. If ACC Bank force a fire-sale of the properties and the other Irish banks don't buy the ACC portion, they will be forced to dispose of their own part of those same properties at market values today. -i.e. 70% down.

And yet that is not even the bottom of the market, because land speculation happened all over the countries and in some of the smaller towns in Ireland, the plunge in land prices on the edges of town for various developement, as effectively sunk to zero!

When we get to the NAMA bill itself, we find there is little transparency and it is exempt from the Freedom of Information act. Yes, that rights, we will NOT get to hear anything about its dealing. It also allows the minister to intervene on any matter.

So imagine, just a few years down the road, and the minister is allowed make decisions about what price to pay for NAMA property. And remember all the dealings are automatically get secret. Given the record of corruption in this country, we can be sure that friends of the minister or his party (whether it be FF or FG in power), will get "preferential" deals that are very favourable to them. Then a few years later if things ever pick up again, the same properties will be disposed off and just like before, those in the Golden Circle -although it will be slightly changed from earlier years -will get to buy the most promising properties at bargain prices and we can be sure that very shortly thereafter they will be resold for a hansome profit.

This scenario exactly planned out numerous times already in Irish society in earlier years, with the famous Johnston Mooney and O'Brien site being one famous example where it was sold by the government for a low sum to a group of "investors" who sold it a few days later for a profit of several million.

So the question is, if you have an entity like NAMA with massive sums involved, a vast amount of land and property and there is almost zero oversight, all its dealings and reports are automatically secret and exempt from FoI requests, then how could you not have corruption on a massive scale?

I think people would have to agree, this monster will destroy this country. The only reason that nobody entertains this idea or considers it might happen, is because it is simply much to frightening and awful to contemplate, but the evidence suggests its a near certainty.

And if anyone is still in doubt, please remember that only 2 to 3 years ago, we were told that there is no property bubble and those saying otherwise were begrudders and that there would be a soft landing. If people had looked at the facts rationally and fought against the media blitz telling us otherwise and refused to buy property on a mass scale they would have saved themselves and the country an awful lot of money, because there are people today who have paid anything from 100,000 to 300,000 over and above what they should have paid for their houses. How long will it take for them to pay off just the surlpus and that in a situation where their wages are falling and jobs threatened?

See link below for some interesting NAMA discussion

by attendee Sat Sep 12, 2009 19:24

For legislation that supposedly has the country 'up in arms in anger', there was a pretty poor attendance today at this protest.

People care enough to call Joe Duffy about it, but beyond that... the system remains intact.

by Jerry Cornelius Sat Sep 12, 2009 19:34

I told you this demo would be tiny. It was organised by a guy with delusions of grandeur, he even called his "organisation" the Irish Peoples Union. So humble.

Next Saturday, 19 September will be the real demo. Its organised by people who knw what they are doing and who have a track record of involvement in fighting cutbacks.

Always beware of people who emerge from nowhere and decide that they are The Messiah who have come to lead the people.

by certain? Sat Sep 12, 2009 21:49

"Dave Browne, founder of the site, will be promoting his site and the protest in a media blitz."

by Jerry Cornelius Mon Sep 14, 2009 16:41

they claim that 400 people attended the protest. A lot of the comments read as if they were written by the same person. There seems to be a mood for emigration amongst "posters" (where to I wonder). Also one woman was annoyed when a TD called her a racist. But she might be the same person that posts: "The irish are a stupid shower of lazy cu*ts ".

How dare you not turn up for their demo!

by Fred Johnston Mon Sep 14, 2009 19:40

It's clear that some big developers are holding out by all means at their disposal until NAMA kicks in and that the banks, equally slyly, are hoping that NAMA will not take long about it. Meanwhile John O'Donoghue gives a mealy statement on his expenses to the Dáil and a former FÁS head gets four and a half months tacked on to his service by FF's Mary Coughlan so that he can draw down a massive pension. No apologies anywhere, lads. 'Sheanie' Fitzpatrick . . . .remember him? Remember Anglo-Irish? The country's rotten and instead of fixing it the government cuts child welfare.