Another week, another Gaza protest in Cork City

by Bazooka Joe Mon Jan 19, 2009 23:48

It is misleading to give the impression that there is only one small group of Orthodox Jews opposing anti-Zionism. The vast majority of Orthodox Jewry has always opposed the secular Zionists although many remain silent. The collaboration of the Zionists with the Nazi Holocaust although well documented has also been so skillfully concealed that even supporters of Israel appear to be ignorant about the true nature of the evil regime. Here are some books and writings for anyone with a genuine interest in the this history and not some blind adherence to Christian Zionism or a media induced illusion of Israel. Some are available onlin

51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis by lenny Brenner
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/index.htm

A History of Zionism by Walter Laqueur
http://books.google.ie/books?id=NMjh319vnwAC&dq=A+HISTO...15,M1

The Transfer Agreement By Edwin Black
On August 7, 1933, leaders of the Zionist movement concluded a secret and controversial pact with the Third Reich
http://www.transferagreement.com/

Holocaust Victims Accuse, Documents and Testimony on Jewish war Criminals by Reb Moshe Shonfeld. Published in 1977 describing the brutal Zionist role which prevented the rescue of the holocaust victims
http://www.israelversusjudaism.org/holocaust/introducti...n.cfm

A Threat From Within, a Century of Jewish Opposition to Zionism by Yakov M. Rabkin. Available on Amazon

27 Congregational Rabbis of US and Canada condemn the ‘Evil Doers’ of Zionist Israel
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbinicalcourts/crc/...c.pdf

Ben-Gurion's Scandals By Naeim Giladi. Published by Dandelion Books, 2006
ISBN 1893302407, 9781893302402
The story of how Mossad killed Jews and deliberate planted anti-Semitism in Iraqi Jewish communities to force Jews to relocate to Israel.

by Peter Mon Jan 19, 2009 22:45

Fair enough, but burning a flag is hardly anti-democratic.
offensive yes, but not anti-democratic but thats the price of free speech.

by Phil Mon Jan 19, 2009 21:18

The Neturei Karta Orthodox jewish group who oppose Zionism say that Zionists exaggerated the Holocaust. Then they say that Zionists collaborated with Nazis to kill millions of Jews in the Holocaust.

Can't have it both ways guys

by I wouldnt use that pic Mon Jan 19, 2009 19:10

Firstly I cant spell it exactly but the Neutri Karti a group of about a few hundred Ultra Orthodox Jews.In London,New York and guess where most live Jerusalem.
They deny the Holocaust,burn Israeli flags.Yet over 80 per cent of them Live in Israel.

Ask why they hate the state of Israel.Simply because Israel has secualr laws.It believes Israel should be governed by The Torah.And its laws.

These Jews are tiny.A tiny Minority with Ultra Orthodox Judaism.Where most are Lubavitch Ultra Orthodox.

The sad fact is Cork has less than thirty Jews.Yet if there is no anti Semetism.Why is there Garda security outside when there is a religious event outside..Why do visiting Rabbis and Ultra Orthodox boys have to change in Western Clothing.In my entire life I have seen one man in akippah.Who actually got starred at By two Polish Girls working in Centra on Grand Parade.When he laughed they spoke in Polish and pissed themselves laughing.The only Orthodox man I have seen is IN Cork Airport.

The Jewish population in Cork has almost died ouy.But there has been anti semetic signs like Nazi Symbols in Dublin.

And in areas like Toulouse and Paris and London
And Antwerp there has been a massive rise in attacks on Jews and Synagogues.

I ask why did you post a picture and the address of the Synagogue in Cork.Why would you.Did you want to encourage attacks.

by israel lives Mon Jan 19, 2009 17:40

I wouldn't burn the Hamas flag for the simple reason it is an anti-democratic act.

I merely suggested that the pro Palestinian marchers do it as they see nothing wrong with it & claim to be against Hamas violence. it would then prove their honesty on this matter.

by Peter Mon Jan 19, 2009 17:35

Why dont you organise an Israeli march and burn the Hamas flag? Surely that would make more sense?

The marches were pro-Palestine and linking them with Hamas is ridiculous. If the Israelis committed the same atrocities in the West Bank next week would that make the very same marchers pro-Fatah?

by Israel lives Mon Jan 19, 2009 17:16

If you don't support Hamas violence & are opposed to it, then by your own standards you should publically burn the Hamas flag also. This at least would show consistency.

by M Parks Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:42

Bazooka Joe said above "Many good Jewish people also burn that filthy emplem of the supremacist Zionist state. Should we not burn it like the swastika flags of the Nazis, a state that had so much in common with modern Israel? Nazi Germany also believed it's people were selected by God to have a right to exterminate or exile those it considered as less than human."

Bazooka what you have written is tripe. The majority of the leadership of the Nazis were either atheists or had broken with the church. The Nazis antisemitism and its form of fascist rule had nothing to do with religion.

I would be interested in your explanation of what Israel has in common with Nazi Germany.
Maybe it is some of the following:
A lack of democracy and discrimination against people of a different nationality. There is a lack of democracy in Zimbabwe and it also discriminates against ethnic minorities, so is it like Nazi Germany? Russia is a country in which there are serious questions over how its so-called democracy functions. The Russian government is involved in major discrimination against minorities and other nationalities including two wars in recent years. Is it like Nazi Germany?

Maybe its the ferocity of its oppression of the Palestinians? What the US has done in Iraq and Afghanistan is significantly worse. It occupies both countries, denies the Iraqi and Afghan people democracy and freedom and in the case of Iraq is responsible for the death of one million people. Do this mean that the US is a state similar to Nazi Germany?

Is it because it is a state within which the majority of the people, but also the political establishment and therefore the government come from one religion and govern at the expense and oppression of others. If that is what you mean then what do you think about Iran. A country which is politically dominated by the Shia clerics and discriminates against all others. Does this mean that in fact Iran and Israel are actually very similar and according to your logic like Nazi Germany?

The answer to all of these questions is no. None of the countries I have mentioned including Israel are fascist states. None of them are like Nazi Germany at all except that they are capitalist countries. Bazooka Joe and the others on many threads throughout this site who are continually trying to compare Israel to Nazi Germany obviously no nothing about fascism and even less about history.

Some of the people making these claims are undoubtedly fascists and or antisemitic and are using these threads to encourage anti-Jewish sentiment. Others are just ignorant and throwing about abusive terms in a way that is dangerous.

If you genuinely support the cause of the Palestinian people then you are doing them no favours by making such ridiculous claims.

by John - Cork Shell to Sea Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:13

I took part in the protest on Sat and it was me wearing the Shell to Sea jacket. I did wonder before putting it on but it was a very wet day and it is my only rain jacket at the moment and I take a holistic view of these events and see war in Gaza, Shell's attempted exploitation of Erris and indeed all oppression as being connected.
Dealing with them effectively requires seeing and understanding these connections and coming up with strategies for dealing with their root causes rather than treating them as single issues. I too have spent a lot of money on candles in that shop and I intend to go back and speak with the woman at a more peaceful moment. An excited protest is not always the best time to get subtle and complex points across.

by Paul Mon Jan 19, 2009 09:31

Marching against the brutal actions of the Israeli governement does not mean you support Hamas. Its the same twisted logic that equates disgust at Israeli government actions with anti-Semitic behaviour and an accusation which has now been debunked in the media. By your logic all those TD's, senators, coucillors and MEP's are Hamas supporters which I sincerely doubt.

Thousands of demonstrators, anywhere from 20-100,000 according to estimates turned up at the Madrid rally in support of the Palestinians. And this in a city that has suffered from extreme Islamic terrorism. Ditto with London.
In Madrid, a rally in support of Israel only managed a turnout of 1,000.

The Dublin pro-Israeli march consisted of just 50(!) people compared to the few thousand in Palestinian solidarity marches around the country.

by Israel lives Mon Jan 19, 2009 09:02

Have any of he protestors read the Hamas Charter? Article 7 calls for the killing of Jews. This is anti-Semetic & exposes where the Hamas ideology comes from.

This is you side with!

by gazasympathiser Mon Jan 19, 2009 09:00

1. Israel prison guards went into the Gaza internment camp and butchered 100 Palestinians for every Israeli killed in brutal reprisals.

2. Burning flags is a common form of protest worldwide against ANY nation that behaves brutally.

by Bazooka Joe Mon Jan 19, 2009 01:48

This is one of the Jewish goups who oppose Israel and burn it's filthy flag.

http://www.nkusa.org/

Here they protest against the murder in Gaza
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0haybEo-Tx4
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae10ZrQd344&feature=related

How they are treated on US media
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uUpmWCQRui0

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3dSHl3C9kgY

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUTRjQSihk&NR=1

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9GHPj8TaBAM&feature=related

The only 'anti-semitic' incident in Cork in 120 years, according to Fred Rosehill, was the leaving of a pair of childrens shoes outside the synagogue at 10 South Terrace with the word 'Qana' written on them: a reference to the South Lebanese town attacked by the Zionist army in 2006.

http://www.village.ie/Society/Fragments/Fragments_2006-...8-24/

Cork Synagogue on South Terrace - No Protest

by Miriam Mon Jan 19, 2009 00:59

This is not about Jews and Judaism. It is about the actions of the Israeli state which CLAIMS to be acting as a matter of political and religious conviction.

There are many Jewish groups who support these protests both within and without Israel. So you needn't get worked up about something that isn't actually happening.

How Israel is thwarting genuine Palestinian attempts to negotiate:

http://heathlander.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/a-temporary...fire/

End the occupation and the siege - respect international law. Israel as a state is an out of control thug. It needs to earn respect by decent behaviour. It will NEVER do so by violently imposing its will on others.

by Bazooka Joe Mon Jan 19, 2009 00:54

Many good Jewish people also burn that filthy emplem of the supremacist Zionist state. Should we not burn it like the swastika flags of the Nazis, a state that had so much in common with modern Israel? Nazi Germany also believed it's people were selected by God to have a right to exterminate or exile those it considered as less than human. Israel has not only shown distain and disrespect for the international community and the UN in particular but it has acted in a perversely evil manner towards women, children, policemen and civic workers (terming the latter two 'terrorists'). Burning the flag of the Zionist state should be applauded since it shows our utter rejection of Israel and their evil deeds.

The way Israel preceeded all it murder with it's classic 'Hamas are hiding behind the civilians' lie is just what it did previously when it demolised the West Bank and also in the 2006 war in Lebanon. They are very practiced in their cynical murder of civilians and their lies around it. Do they expect the Hamas fighers to come out into the middle of an open field, point their rifles skyward and see who wins in a shoot out with an F16 or and Apache helicopter? Otherwise they are 'terrorists' right?

And the claims that protests against Israel are 'antisemitic'? Utter rubbish. There are many Jews and Jewish Rabbis who have denounced the criminal state of Israel while burning it's flag. If the protestors wanted to target Jewish people in Cork surely they would protest at the Synagogue on South Terrace and not at the stores facilitating the Zionist economy.

http://www.nkusa.org/Activities/statements/031703flagbu...n.cfm

Orthodox Jews burn the reviled Flag

by Norm An Sun Jan 18, 2009 20:46

gazasympathiser do your maths......the Israeli 1,000 eyes for an eye approach is obscene but the US are responsible for the deaths of One million Iraqis and there are many other conflicts/wars that have far bigger death tolls that the Palestine/Israel conflict since world war two, Vietnam, Cambodia, Rwanda.....

Why have so many people on indy compared what the Israeli government is doing to the Nazis. These type of comments reek of something that would be said by the BNP or other fascist groups. The systematic industrialised extermination of six million people by the Nazis is not comparable to what is happening in Gaza.

It is bad enough whats happen in gaza without your hysterical exaggerations. This type of comment damages the Palestinian cause.

by gazasympathiser Sun Jan 18, 2009 20:15

That's more than can be said for the 1300+ Gazans killed and 5 times that number gravely injured by the Israeli butchers.

Killing 100 Palestinians for every Israeli killed is obscene and beggars belief for a state which proclaims itself the only "democracy" in the middle East.

The last time there were reprisals butchering civilians on this kind of scale was in WWII carried out by you-know-who.

by JKG Sun Jan 18, 2009 18:02

Caitlin
I think that you could do with investigating the history of how apartheid was overthrown. Apartheid in South Africa was not overthrown because of a boycott of South African goods or sports. The boycott played a very very minimal role. It was ineffective. A majority of people didn't boycott South African goods. Countries and big business also continued to trade with South Africa, even when it was supposedly illegal they found ways. The boycott campaign had virtually no impact on the white South African capitalists.
Apartheid was overthrown because of the mass struggle of the black working class. The Israeli state and its right wing racist leaders will not be stopped by a boycott, in part because the boycott will never get big enough support. The only way that the Israeli state and ruling class can be stopped is again like in South Africa by a mass struggle of the Israeli working class against their own rulers and by the Palestinian working class against the Israeli state. The Palestinians also need to get rid of Fatah who are guilty of huge corruption and of oppressing the Palestinian people - Fatah are like prison guards for Israel. Hamas are not much better, their security forces are also guilty of using violence and repression against those Palestinians in Gaza who are opposed to them. Palestinian public sector workers took part in a six month long strike against the Hamas government. Hamas even shot some of the workers who went on strike!
Boycotts may allow people in the West to think they are doing something to help the Gazans but it is false to pretend it is going to stop the Israeli state. It also allows the Israeli political establishment to use the boycott as a propaganda weapon to convince ordinary Israelis that those who are calling for boycott are anti-Israel, anti-Jewish and support the smashing of Israel, as a way to maintain support for their governments and their oppression of the Palestinians.
At the height of the brutal war on the people of Gaza that we have witnessed in the last dew weeks, the majority of people in Ireland are still without even thinking about it buying Israeli goods. This will continue. If the ceasefires hold and evolve into a new so-called "peace process" which is possible, the number of people in Ireland and around the world who will boycott Israeli goods will be miniscule. The liberation of the Palestinian people will come about through mass struggle not a consumer boycott.

by Miriam Sun Jan 18, 2009 17:08

Jewish groups who support the boycott

"Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD) “a multi-tiered campaign of sanctions against Israel until the Occupation ends" (Jeff Halper, An Israeli in Palestine), the US based Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), European Jews for a Just Peace (a coalition of 16 Jewish groups from eight European countries), New Profile (Israel), Not in My Name (US), Matzpun (Israel/International), Jews Against the Occupation (NYC chapter), The petition of South African government minister Ronnie Kasrils and legislator Max Ozinski, which has gathered more than 500 signatories from South African Jews, Jewish Voices Against the Occupation, Jewish Women for Justice in Israel and Palestine (US), Gush Shalom, Jews for Global Justice (US), Visions of Peace With Justice (US), among others, Neturei Karta.

For more information, see http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org/

Related Link: http://www.bdsmovement.net/?q=node/9 "

Galway protest article in full: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/90694

by on behalf of H Sun Jan 18, 2009 15:07

.

by Biker Sun Jan 18, 2009 14:28

It's only a piece of cloth at the end of the day. What the Israelis have done is a babaric war crime which has left 1,100 people dead (one third of them children). In the absence of any action by our government other than meaningless condemnation burning the Israeli flag is a symbolic action by individuals. It physically hurts nobody and if it causes indivviduals pangs of concern then so be it - it might open their eyes and ears to what their country is doing in their name. Burn Away!

by gazasympathiser Sun Jan 18, 2009 13:47

Boycotts are democratic and they will most definitely have an effect on the behaviour of Israel as well as its capability to rain death on Palestinian men, women and children.

As for flag burning we burned plenty of Union Jacks in this country over the years and we burned down the British Embassy for much less than what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians over 60 years.

by Miriam Sun Jan 18, 2009 01:20

Two pictures from second march and one more from today's

Jim tells crowd that Arthur Leahy is to be released

Ciaran Lynch addresses march

Second march setting off

by Miriam Sun Jan 18, 2009 00:58

Three protests have been held in Cork so far - these pictures are from the first march. More from today's march to follow.

Burning of Israeli Flag

Jim Bowen, addresses crowd

Marching in Patrick Street

Parnell Place

Back in Daunt Square

by Protestor Sun Jan 18, 2009 00:25

It seems simple : A rich and aggressive country invades another and murders over a 1,000 people, and those of us many miles away with little power to stop it do the two things we can: protest publicly and choose not to buy goods from that country - join us next week

Marks and Spencer boycott in Cork

Tesco Boycott in Cork

by Paul Sat Jan 17, 2009 23:21

I dont see how buying Irish instead of Israeli potatoes will jepordize any Irish jobs.
Ditto with oranges. It just means more Spanish ones will be imported rather than Israel's.

The protest didnt stop anybody exercising their right to choose about what to buy. You can still support a racist state if you wish.

And the protestors are perfectly ordinary people with the same worries about their own jobs as everybody else in this country at the minute.
Congrats to the councilors, TDs, Senators and MEPs who've turned out the last few weeks to support the protests.

by aarthur Sat Jan 17, 2009 23:10

Not much to say, other than the world can now look out, especially the elderly, as the killing of the children in Gaza is seemingly not a crime. We have seen what happened in this country over the medical cards for the elderly so if they can deny what’s happening in Gaza there shouldn’t be too much fuss about getting rid of the unproductive members of society as well.
Why can we not expect the peculiar people in authority throughout the world to stand up for the little ones in Gaza, the modern day Warsaw Ghetto? We have seen the greatest nation on earth, accompanied by other nations trample on human rights, the US intelligent military goons wheeling their fellow man about in barrows or types of medieval carts reflecting their mindset, in Camp Delta and all kinds of torture now exposed. The facts are now clear for all to see, this crisis is not about a few rockets fired at Israel, as these could be brought down by modern technology. Somebody is fronting for a bigger war to justify the stimulation of the now faltering western economies. If the enfeebled Pratts in power aren’t ejected soon they will reduce the world to an unsustainable mess on all fronts.
I applaud those who did what they could including any politician, to say, we are not buying into this debauchery and those that cannot need to put something between their ears before it’s to late. I don’t know much, other than to say, most of the Irish and other nature people of these islands would rather be pulling a cart than accept the killing of other peoples children as a means to an end.
Finally there is and old saying “you can have a reputation for 50 years and lose it in a split second” I think Israel’s split second has arrived in the negative sense.

by Marcy Dunne Sat Jan 17, 2009 21:39

As good old Tesco say every little helps that is why we support the Israeli fruit veg and other products.

by Cork Libertarian Sat Jan 17, 2009 21:34

I takes hundreds of thousands of Euro to build hiuses for the elderly too, yet we still give it to share! why? because all the little bits add up!

by Moira Cunningham Sat Jan 17, 2009 21:29

While we have a choice we will make it without interference from protesters advising us what to buy or not to buy.

Do you think we need you on the streets and annoying us in our shopping centres to remind us what is going on in the world.

We see and hear it on the news and read it in our papers so we are intelligent enough to make up our own minds as to what we decide to do about it ourselves.

We don't as I said need the interference of angry annoying agressive protesters disrupting us in our shops and on the streets so give it up let us alone to do as we wish with our money.

It would take trillions of bananas to make a profit to buy a tank so do your sums again.

by Cork Libertarian Sat Jan 17, 2009 21:19

The tax revenues to the Israeli state from people buying these products is rapidly exchanged for attack helicopters,M16's and tanks. These are the weapons which hve killed 1000 + people in Gaza. I think it is very practical to boycott israeli goods.

by caitlin Sat Jan 17, 2009 21:18

get real?
What do you think helped to end the Apartheid regime in South Africa? it most certainly wasn't ended by buying South African products!

by Cork Libertarian Sat Jan 17, 2009 21:15

In response to the contributor whose had concerns about freedom of consumer choice. The people of Gaza do not have ANY goods to choose between due to Israelii embargos! Furthermore, if our protest highlights the attrocities committed by the state of Israel on the people of Gaza, and people decide not to buy israelii goods, then they are making a free choice. A choice between products from a state which has turned Gaza into a bloody, open prison or, perfectly good alternatives from less brutal states.

by Anti Protestor Sat Jan 17, 2009 21:10

Do not support mass murder but the business people of Israel as not the military firing the ammunition so do not deserve your protests to stop them selling their goods.

Do you think firing the unwanted fruit back at the tanks can stop a war.

Get real.

by Eh Sat Jan 17, 2009 20:56

What are ya on about?
Do you support mass murder?

by Anti Professional Protestors Sat Jan 17, 2009 19:51

As this report shows some are just professional protestors still wearing t shirts from their last protest and will jump on the bandwagon for anything.

What will it be next week.

As others commented in trying to put Israeli businesses out of business what you are doing is helping Irish staff in these stores to lose their jobs too.

Get wise and go home. It is a free country here in Ireland not a dictatorship and we can make up our minds what we buy and what we spend our hard earned money on. Nobody has a right to tell us what to buy or not to buy so how dare you.

by Paul Sat Jan 17, 2009 19:30

Good to see so many turn out despite the atrocious weather conditions.
I was accosted outside tescos about putting the staffs jobs at risk. Pointed out that we were asking people not to buy israeli products. Theres plenty of alternatives available from other countries if you want to buy oranges, potatoes or herbs. She said she'd support that no prob but not a boycott of tesco, took a leaflet outlining Israeli products and left.

by Miriam Sat Jan 17, 2009 18:50

Same time, same place. 1.00pm Daunt Square, Cork.