Israel says Klling of Civilians is Legal

by sickened Thu Dec 20, 2007 16:11

Genuine peace makers either the Palestinians who want to end the extremist madness that is prolonging Palestinian midery and Israelis who want to begin genuine negotiations rather than continuing the occupation and retaliatory attacks are both sidelined without a voice in the international community.
At the height of the Intifada Palestinians were blowing up innocent Israeli civilians on a weekly basis without a word of complaint from so-called anti-war and peace campaigners.
Palestinian terrorists like Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Chairman Yassir Arafat were mourned by the so-called anti-war and peace campaigners as heroes as if their campaigns of terror and murder never existed.
When Israeli troops entered Jenin camp or entered Southern Lebanon or attacked Palestinian terrorists who were firing rockets from Gaza or took out the Palestinian terrorist leaders who were directing the suicide bombings that were killing innocent Israeli citizens the so-called anti-war and peace campaigners called it war crimes.
If Israelis and Palestinians are ever going to live in peace and security they can do without the so-called anti-war and peace movement which appears to be cheering on Palestinians extremists who murder innocent Israelis as glorious "freedom fighters".

by Sceptic Fri Dec 21, 2007 15:55

"ISRAEL SAYS KILLING OF CIVILIANS IS LEGAL" - Joe

This headline is a sneaky and malicious spin on the press story. “Israel” has said no such thing. The Israeli Attorney General has given an opinion that international law was not broken in the incident in question. The position in international law, applicable to all States, is that the deliberate killing of non-combatants by a State’s armed forces in war would be a breach of the Geneva codes. However this is not what occurred in this instance.

by Shane Fri Dec 21, 2007 17:54

I don't think the anti-war movement is encouraging or condoning the murder of innocent people. They are opposed to the illegal occupation of Palestine, The 60 year struggle against Apartheid, genocide...... Do you expect people living in Palestine to accept the fact that a US backed army control every aspect of their livelihood. The rights repetitious one liner argument is “Palestinian extremists who murder innocent Israelis”. Take your schnout out the fox news nose bag for five mins there lads and do some proper research into why these 'crazy' men blow themselves and others to pieces

Slan

Shane

by Sceptic Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:03

There is a tendency to hyperbole and linguistic manipulation. Apartheid was a doctrine based on racial differences and a prohibition on racial mingling which is not in any way paralleled in the Israeli Palestinian situation. Furthermore Israel has not committed genocide, indeed it was born out of the genocide against Jewish people. This does not stop opponents of Israel liberally throwing in the words genocide and apartheid to their language about Israel in recent times. The main objection was the twisting of this story into the headline “ Israel says killing civilians is legal” which was a travesty. You could as easily say that killing of civilians by the Gardai, the defence forces or by private citizens in Ireland in “not illegal.” The fact is it depends on the circumstances. No State would regard innocent causalities in war as a war crime provided that the causalities were inadvertent and that reasonable steps were taken to avoid causalities. It is not just an Israeli position. It has nothing to do with Fox news which I have never seen.

by Nodin Mon Dec 24, 2007 20:02

"Apartheid was a doctrine based on racial differences and a prohibition on racial mingling which is not in any way paralleled in the Israeli Palestinian situation."

'in no way'? The decision re the land committee whereby it may legally discriminate against Arabs? The two tier system of 'justice' in the OT? The "settler only" roads? Thats three for starters.

by JohnHM Mon Dec 24, 2007 20:42

GIVE ONE EXAMPLE OF A SETTLER ONLY ROAD

Meanwhile NO JEWS are being allowed on to the TEMPLE MOUNT but Hamas is

and NO Jews are being allowed in to BETHLEHEM not even coach drivers [ who have to be Muslim or Christian Arabs ] carrying Christians

-just like 2000 years ago is nt it ?.

by Sceptic Wed Dec 26, 2007 21:07

What you are saying is that there is discrimination or that it can be argued that there is. However discrimination in itself does not equate to apartheid. The doctrine of racial separation is another thing altogether from discrimination. This is not mere semantics. Apartheid has definitive meaning and it ill serves any objective analysis of the Israel Palestine issue to describe it as such.

by Sean D Fri Dec 28, 2007 04:41

Getting back to the story; international law has always said that civilians cannot be killed deliberately. 'Deliberate' as defined by the Israeli AG appears to mean to act on a direct order. If the Israeli cabinet say 'do your best not to hit civilians' to the army, then they're in the clear according to the AG. If the army thinks that if they do hit civilians it won't be investigated seriously or it'll get blamed on faulty intelligence, then they will hardly take the geneva conventions in the spirit according to which they were drafted, as they may interfere with the waging of war.
I doubt Hezbollah pay too much attention to the Geneva conventions either, but they do look to the modern replacement, public opinion. That's why the war was seen as a loss for Israel; they were the hi-tech bully boys, levelling swathes of a poorer neighbour, and not even doing a very good job of militarily defeating them. My sympathies to the Israeli AG for the unwarranted, underhanded, and, yes, devestating attack from this website.

by JohnHM Sat Dec 29, 2007 19:37

JPost.com » Israel » Article

Dec 29, 2007 11:48 | Updated Dec 29, 2007 17:43
Pilgrims stranded in standoff with Egypt
By JPOST STAFF AND AP

Nearly two thousand Palestinian pilgrims returning from Mecca were stranded in the Red Sea on Saturday after refusing to sign an agreement with Egyptian authorities to re-enter the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom Crossing.

Egyptian riot police officers stand guard as Palestinian Muslim pilgrims wait at Rafah prior to traveling to Mecca.
Photo: AP
Among the pilgrims were senior Hamas operatives, several of whom are wanted by Israel, Israel Radio reported. Fearing arrest once they arrived at the Israeli-controlled Kerem Shalom Crossing, the Hamas members insisted on returning to Gaza via Rafah Crossing, which is not under Israel's control.

The pilgrims had sailed to the port city of Nuweiba on the Sinai Peninsula from Jordan's Aqaba Port but the Egyptians were stopping them from disembarking.

Hamas said there were a total of 1,900 pilgrims who had been waiting since Friday in the Red Sea.

The Palestinians were refusing to accept food or medicines until they received permission to use Rafah and some even threatened to set the ferries on fire.

Israel filed a complaint with Cairo after Egypt allowed the Palestinians to pass through Rafah on their way to Mecca and after Defense Minister Ehud Barak's recent visit to Egypt, Israeli officials said the Egyptians agreed to have the pilgrims use Kerem Shalom Crossing on there way back to Gaza.

IDF intelligence estimates released on December 5 indicated that up to a couple of dozen Hamas terrorists were among the so-called pilgrims Egypt allowed out of the Gaza Strip.

In recent years, hundreds of Hamas terrorists have travelled abroad to Iran and Lebanon for military training, and officials said it was possible that these terrorists would do the same.

The IDF also fears that if the pilgrims are allowed to return to Gaza through Rafah they might smuggle millions of dollars to Hamas.

Senior Palestinian officials dismissed Israel's concerns, saying the Egyptians could search the pilgrims for smuggled cash.

"Israelis raise trivial issues and complicate things to cover up criticism over continued construction of settlements," said Mohammed Sobeih, the Arab League's undersecretary general.

The standoff angered Hamas, who said Egypt has a responsibility to bring the pilgrims back to Gaza as quickly as possible.

Some 5,000 people waving Palestinian and Hamas flags gathered on the Gaza side of the border with Egypt on Saturday and demanded the pilgrims be allowed to enter.

"We won't accept any excuse for preventing the pilgrims from returning," read a banner carried by one of the protesters.

Egyptian riot police arrived and mounted a machine gun on a building overlooking the corridor separating Egypt from Gaza. Hamas security positioned themselves between the protesters and the border gate.

In Gaza late Friday, angry Hamas loyalists fired their guns in the air and lobbed sound bombs in protest of Egypt's actions.
The rioting was quickly quelled by Hamas security.

Hamas government spokesman Taher Nunu said Saturday that 1,900 pilgrims are caught in limbo at sea and urged Egypt "to urgently end their plight."

"We in the government and the people refuse to use (the Israeli) crossing. The pilgrims have the right to return the same way they exited," he said.

Hamas lawmaker Yehia Moussa said Egypt has a moral obligation to bring the pilgrims back home.

"We demand an immediate end to the situation before we get to popular reactions with undesired consequences," he said.

Moussa said it was not a threat, but "the public has the right to protest and revolt against the closure."