Irish Army To Buy Pilotless Spy Drones From Israel

by Nodin Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:42

..but not in the least suprising. Presumably we'll be buying batons and 'electrical equipment' from the Burmese next...

by Mike Novack Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:44

I wasn't aware that batons and other "electrical equipment" from Burma were so much superior to those made by other possible sources.

Like DUH ----- one question is to whether to buy these drones in the first place. If the answer to that one is "no" the question of "from the Israelis" doesn't arise. If the answer is "yes", then second question.

From the Israelis? Well just how many other countries offer drones that work? I think the list is rather short. I think if the question is phrased "how many OTHER countries offer drones that work as well or nearly as well" the list might be very short -- like empty. In other words, IF you have decided to buy drones, you might not have a sensible alternative.

Ireland isn't a technologically backward country. You could try "rolling your own". See how well their performance stacks up agaisnt the Israeli models.

by Nodin Thu Aug 02, 2007 13:13

The question is not one of quality but of source, which I would have thought to be obvious. And please spare me the details of what components of what were developed in Israel. Wherever possible products that are identifiably from there should be boycotted, for the same reasons as one from Burma.

by Just me Thu Aug 02, 2007 15:40

Why shouldnt buy things off Isreal? unlike Iran, Syria, Jordan etc it is:
A Democracy
A supporter of western Ideals
An opponent of terrorism

We should be proud to do business with Isreal

by G Timony Thu Aug 02, 2007 17:19

Ho, ho, ho, what fantasy land are you living in? though, perhaps I am mistaken and the previous commenter is engaging in some extreme black-humour.
For the record:
Isreal has violated more UN resolutions than any other country, trained death squads in Latin America, supported apartheid South Africa 'security forces', not to mention it's habit of bombing and shelling refugee camps, its use of tanks and bulldozers in the 'punishment' demolition of civilian housing, the continuing ethnic cleansing + killings of palestinians, etc, etc , ad nauseum. Supporter of freedom and democracy? I don't think so...

by croookstown Thu Aug 02, 2007 17:25

Theres a good biography of prozionist writer Eoghan Harris in ANSWERS.COM

by HMMMM Thu Aug 02, 2007 20:24

Not like they could be used by the Irish army in support of their troops in peace keeping operations i know it must be more fun walking into an ambush without knowing about it. I guess you prefer dead Irish soldiers instead.

by iosaf Fri Aug 03, 2007 13:00

I recall adding "make-your-own" links to my report complete with photo of the Pakistani army downing what they alledged was a PRChina device when they were uncharacteristically far north a while back. http://indymedia.ie/article/71976
All the defence forces in Europe are getting them, at the annual military parade in Spain earlier this year a variety of drone acquisitions were displayed. You can get little ones that look like toys and you can get massive ones that look like gliders or even stealth and detract fire. You can solar-powered ones that spend most of their lives really high off the ground and out of detection range and then come down at night. Well now they're the ferrarri models of the drone world. But you can't buy them on the open arms market yet. I'm still curious to know what type the one which was shot down in Somalia in February 2007 it caused quite a stir because the locals were convinced it was a "spacecraft" and then they put the ufo-heads on alert worldwide that a disc was downed and then as these things work out - they put the competing salvage teams on scramble.-

So little tip 9mm willy o Dea - don't go wasting our money on the top range toys especially if they're still in development. If one fails the competition between salvage companies can get quite messy. Ask dermot Aherne - you're not allowed goto Somalia are you? No you're not.

make your own drone :-
http://indymedia.ie/article/71976

by Poster Sat Aug 04, 2007 06:23

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/myratsareintune/IL...e.gif

by A10 Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:09

Sorry,Ireland IS technically backward on building anything vaugely military.We might produce dual use chips or modify APC for export.But thats all.Building somthing like a drone from scratch costs time,R&D and millions.Not to mind personel trained in the various fields.Look ,we dont even have an indigenous industry to attempt to build a CAR not to mind somthing like this.So buying it from somone who has built,R&D,and flown it in combat conditions makes sense.We cant buy from the evil USA[too expensive and not for sale].The UK is still building one,which no doubt the wings will fall off or crash on its first run.So Isreal got the deal, no big logic there.

by iosaf gurgling Sun Aug 05, 2007 20:35

In fact it could be a cross-border project. Hooking up Raytheon in Derry with Airmotive on the Naas Road. Then once the department of R&D "maybe they make kettles" in Dublin could have weekly meetings with his or her counterpart in the six counties and we could take pride in making our own Irish drone surveillance crafts, our own Ulster surveillance crafts and (this is the good bit) we take pride in all Ireland protests against the Arms trade which will come over as fluffy coz drones are useful for stopping marijuana plantations which as we know is a terrible problem out in Donegal and Offally.

yes it is.

I am curious at how many people are buying the Israeli model. going like hotcakes.
so i'll plug the arms trade lobby -
http://www.caat.org.uk/

by avi15 Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:34

The Irish army and police use a lot of Israeli stuff. I once had a conversation with a special branch guy at a road block in Clare, in which I pointed out to him things on his ancient Uzi he didn't know about. They buy this stuff because it works and offers the best value. By the way, I don't think it's right just to get into a blind hate trip about Israel. Israel has a lot of good things going for it, if you are prepared to keep an open mind. It has faults, but hey, newsflash: so does Ireland.

by rooster Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:44

A good purchase by the Irish Army, if they are to be deployed to any of the Worlds trouble spots for example in support of the UN then they are likely to be there in smaller numbers than the local combatants and are likely to be lightly armed in comparison. This piece of kit will give them surveillance of a wide area and will help monitor ceasefires and give better warnings of imminent attacks. All in all a lifesaver.

by Caobhin Thu Aug 09, 2007 14:32

I hope the UN uses such technology give better warnings of imminent attacks to the citizens of Afghanistan, Palestine,Lebanon, Iraq and help prevent Israeli/Septic/Brit terrorism.

by Seán Thu Aug 09, 2007 15:40

"hope the UN uses such technology give better warnings of imminent attacks to the citizens of Afghanistan, Palestine,Lebanon, Iraq and help prevent Israeli/Septic/Brit terrorism"

There's no such thing as Palestinian, Lebanese or Iraqi terrorism?

Do me a favour.

by gurgle Thu Aug 09, 2007 21:18

There can be no doubt that drone technology has developed by leaps and bounds and offers both military planners and opponents new challenges. The recent launch of skylab the main military satelite geostationary orbit over-view system has seen interest throughout NATO partners and their exchange networks in alternative space based surveillance and logistic suppoer technology to more old-fashioned & perhaps glitzy missile shield options. However, any new technology is bound to be plagued by doubts & prove in no so short time the now clichéd line "'tis only as good as its operator". Thus keen arms-trade activists could little wrong in going along to such fun events as the recent "flying disk" or "frisbie" handling day in Herbert's park. http://ie.indymedia.org/article/83518 Learn how the little machine dips and pitches & the limitations as well as advantages it offers for real-time monitoring of missile positions and combatent movements just over the drumlin hill. But alas, this new technology will spawn its own little arms-race. Drone aircraft are in many tactical ways a logical succesor to the drone land-reconaisance craft which for most people stirs images of either a mars-robot rover or a bomb disposal droid depending on their own particular cultural background.

gurgle.

Rather than talking about how well our boys and girls in the forces abroad may be served by new technology or sun-tan lotion or ray-ban sunglasses or recalling the shameful behaviour in our Liberian mission - it may be better to have a really chunky and sincere discussion on where we send them & what we expect them to do. We must by now have realised that they use pretty much the same crockery and are trained in much the same way as the various forces of the NATO/OTAN alliance with whom our prosperity and EU development have been tied. So - at brass-tacks the recently ordered drone craft might plausibily been of value during our UNIFIL time (mission in Lebanon) but at present considering our non-presence there and the war which since saw so many thousands of surface to surface missile hits - it may seem a bit of retrospective wishful thinking.

Oh yep - you can really put the shite up natives using these things. They think they're UFO's. Any of our "forces experts" want to opine on why we would need such devices in our current UN missions rather than say detonation inhibitors or more heavily armoured transport? Or are we really talking about other types of surveillance?

by Caobhin Fri Aug 10, 2007 14:35

There's no such thing as Palestinian, Lebanese or Iraqi terrorism?

Do me a favour.

And where exactly was that stated my septic lovin friend? Still good to see you do not deny your heroes are terrorists.

by Barry - 32 csm Sat Aug 11, 2007 13:52

these craft will be used primarily to spy on Irish citizens . The British have been using them for many years to spy on Irish citizens and regularly sent these craft accross the border , well into the south . Ive witnessed them do this twice over the years and heard a number of other accounts . Last year I also noticed a pilotless drone being used to spy on shoppers at Jonesboro market on the border , as well as to scour the roads throughout the area . That had nothing at all to do with terrorism .and its quite likely that these free state drones will be used in a similar manner , a further invasion of peoples privacy and another weapon in the states arsenal for use against its own citizens .
Hope they crash and burn.

by gremlin Sat Aug 11, 2007 17:29

The most basic remains under wireless control and to relay data in real time must maintain a wireless or other link. Put basically that means it's radio operated and reliant on radio masts for position and worth. Take out the radio waves - and you take out the drone. The most sophisticated are preset in their flight path and fly in radio darkness and thus are only worthwhile if they can land at an appointed place and their data be retreived or if they can open a channel with either land or space based communication systems. You could think of them as a sophisticated mobile telephone with camera & wings...All you really have to do is batter the chips out of a satelite if you find one or keep a keen ear open for unusual radio activity on wavelengths you don't normally use, you'd also be looking at unusual radio masts for that. Indeed the home made varieties linked to in the comments above and other article which explained how the Pakistanis found a Chinese model illustrate how easy it is to attach a webcam from a computer to a flying device. But what is probably worth more than the little gizmos themselves is the log of information they can gather over a period of time such as the last Israeli war on Lebanon. You could think of those thousands of hours of footage as a sort of military planner's dream. I'm sure NATO or other powers would pay handsomely for the opportunity to analyse that stuff.
If you're keen on organising a garage sale or second hand counterfeit perfume bazaar with your neighbours, my advice would be to invest in very strong fishing line and attached to blimp style helium balloons suspend a counter drone drag net over your location ensuring you enmesh the covering with radiomagnetic disruption chemicals. Alas, you'll also down a few birds but for the most part these are edible and if not (don't go munching a crow, seagull or vulture in damp weather like this)- you can still make a head-dress for yourself or fancy-dress costumes for the kiddies.

by Wolfe Tone Sun Aug 12, 2007 21:33

didnt the Irish Army use SMLE rifles made in Britain?

Vickers guns, Bren guns, Sten guns made in the UK?

German Helmets during the 1930's?

Hypocritical to whinge now about the Sources of Irish Arms

by martin Mon Aug 13, 2007 01:49

The irish army are also buying eleven thousand helmets from the israelis along with the drones, they must be made of stern material, guess they would have to be if your an israeli soldier entering the west bank or gaza strip or south lebanon.

by Donal Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:37

"Last year I also noticed a pilotless drone being used to spy on shoppers at Jonesboro market on the border , as well as to scour the roads throughout the area . That had nothing at all to do with terrorism"

You're right, Barry. They were spying on the people of Jonesboro to see what they were buying. It's a marketing tool!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING IN!!!!!!!!!

by Mr Magoo Mon Aug 13, 2007 22:52

'Martin' uses a lovely pun when he says the helmets must be made of 'stern' material. Geddit? Geddit? The notorious Stern Gang, operated by the Israelis, terrorists to a man, and later politicians in the Israeli government. Nice one, Martin.

by Sceptic Mon Aug 13, 2007 23:29

Stern was an independent and autonomous "NGO" terrorist faction if you like. It is inaccurate to say it was “operated” by the Israelis. Only a small number were later politically active. Terrorists mutating into democratic politicians is a phenomena we are not unfamiliar with in this country. Sauce for the goose and all that.

by Fred Johnston Tue Aug 14, 2007 01:18

If the Israelis did not benefit from the terror of the Stern Gang, then who did?

by Sceptic Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:21

That's a separate issue and a separate debate. One could argue in some sense that the SDLP benefited from the Provo campaign as it might have made it more urgent to offer moderate opinion concessions in around 1985 but this does not implicate them in it in any way. Similar parallels could be drawn with 1916.

by Regular Jonesboro Shopper - N/A Sat Sep 01, 2007 02:41

I have compiled a list of alternate possibilities about the drones seen over Jonesboro market. Notwithstanding that Jim Corr occassionally flies his helicopter over Jonesboro enroute to Dundalk. I am reliably informed that a local building developer who recently came into a bit of money has bought a tiny helicopter and anyone not used to seeing helicopters this small might actually think it was a drone, or indeed one of the remote control helicopters which you can buy at the market. The most common belief however is that he buzzes the market in his helicopter in the same way that the Brititsh Army did in Jonesboro markets hayday. However, I feel it is more likely that the drone is an adapted remote control machine sent down to Jonesboro by a jealous husbands following the women to the adult toys stall. Word is that the on board camera is strong enough to detect the rampant rabbits in neighbouring fields. ;-)

by We the People Sat Sep 01, 2007 09:25

The Irish 'free' State took over where the Brits left off. The 'free' State Army even adopted the same uniform and Sam Brown Belt.
I do not know why the Irish Defence forces march at Easter past the G.P.O. to commemorate 1916 , as these would be the very same People who would be detailed to execute the 1916 Leaders.

Collins got his Weapons from the Brits to kill his own People in the War of ..eh ......independence. He used Cannons and .303 Bolt action Lee Enfields and whatever else he could get.

The Brits folded their arms and watched their divide and conquer show.

The Gards we formed by the Blueshirts and have infested Fianna Fail and the Courts.

We're a FXXXXX up State.

But more importantly , we are still a Nation. There is a big difference.
We are a Constituted Soverign Republic.

A State , will always spy on IT'S Citizens.

by Nimbus Mon Oct 01, 2007 05:09

I'm a startup UAV developer (Irish) - what I'll say to these threads is that actually there are developers capable of building systems such as the orbiter in Ireland; this is not a very advanced system; a tech savy hobbyist could build similar given a year or two; it comes down to the putting together at least two high capacity LIPO batteries, a high quality brushless drive system, a camera, (pref zoom type), with 1 watt transmitter and a high quality autopilot system with carbon/kevlar composite airframe of reflex profile flying wing variety; I'd add an augmented suite of telemetry sensors to complement the autopilot, if the autopilot has sufficient bandwith to it, the augmented flight telemetry data could simply be relayed to the ground station using the datalink - two laptops needed - one for GPS mapping & control etc, the other for flight telemetry data display. I guess that reasonably the cost would be ~ 40k euro which gives you an indication of what is involved.

by Nimbus Mon Oct 01, 2007 05:38

There is a similar system produced in spain called aerovision costing about 100k / drone - also a flying wing with small 2-stroke petrol motor. These drones are not that complex; the difficulty is more to do with regulatory complications around flight testing which needs to be exhaustive - in europe this is a complex area making it very difficult to develop such systems.
One other addition - an autopilot will allow programming of a lost communication flight plan - if you take away the radio waves the drone still functions and so long as you program the recovery / landing at 'home' you still get the data.