Sinn Féin growth to be found as a republican, left alternative

by CTN Sun Jun 24, 2007 16:48

Fellow bloggers as this article is now in my opinion dated please be aware as I shall not be giving it further attention I will not be able to comment on any replies to my blogs.

Thanx,

CTN

by CTN Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:10

This article featured in today's sindo.

I dunno guys- we're all blogging about their poor performance but did any of us think it was this bad....

"GERRY ADAMS is coming under open criticism from the southern wing of Sinn Fein about the direction of the North-based leadership.

Articles criticising the performance and decision-making of "senior figures" over the dismal Sinn Fein performances in the general election have appeared for two weeks in a row in the Dublin-produced Sinn Fein weekly paper, An Phoblacht.

The party's disastrous performance in Dublin, where their vote fell from 60,895 in the 2004 European election to 34,282 - a drop of 46 per cent - has caused consternation among the mainly young hopefuls, who are blaming the northerners who controlled the campaign.

The party's candidate in Dun Laoghaire, Eoin O Broin, who managed only 1,292 votes, compared to 2,159 in the last general election, said: "The leaders' debate on RTE was just one of a number of interviews, post-ard fheis, in which senior party spokespersons appeared weak and uncomfortable with our policy positions."

He said the pre-election abandonment of the party's tax policies "alienated left-of-centre voters, who chose instead left independents, almost costing Aengus O Snodaigh his seat".

Dublin party organiser Justin Moran said: "To summarily announce, as senior party figures did, that those policies no longer exist, without identifying alternative sources of funding or consulting with the party's members, is both irresponsible and overrides the party's decision-making structures." "

With the turbulence ahead re a new economic policy- these guys could be already melting down.

by CTN Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:14

I wasn't upset - just don't jump to conclusions, it will help you see a clearer picture in the long run as more facts emerge.

Yes, DSF are in serious trouble and if your facts are correct re the local issues then those factors are indeed very serious and we could debate all day whether or not they are as important than the defections/resignations.

I don't take particular delight in the plight of DSF it is more a relief that the Adams myth is finally exploding.

If DSF melt down in '09 me thinks ol grizzler might be on his bike...

by Silversurfer Sat Jun 16, 2007 23:45

Hi CNT,

Sorry if you are upset at me accusing you of being an Eírigí supporter, it just seemed that way. I fully agree with your points regarding the danger SF are now in but we’ll have to agree to disagree about the affect the resignations of the Eírigí people had on the organisation. I think the issues I mentioned earlier were more of a reason for the poor vote.
By the way, my comments on Nicky Keogh being dropped are a statement of fact, not my opinion. This is common knowledge locally and the main reason why so few locals canvassed for Mary Lou. I don’t care how many people claim that Nicky himself told them that it was his decision, its bollocks. He was shafted.

by CTN Sat Jun 16, 2007 18:45

Whilst one keeps an open mind- my honest opinion is that both yourself and James are correct, indeed I stated I believed N.K. resigned before today.

The subsequent unearthing of the alleged scandal and the further alleged connections to former republicans means one must tread carefully when discussing these matters, as we owe a duty of care to suspects even if we dislike them.

I have met people from right across the political spectrum in Dublin but never came across the likes of Dublin Sinn Fein for resignations and defections.

Up until last month it seemed that Adams had kept his goof ups of camera and microphone but now all has changed utterly.

If they melt down in Dublin at the '09 elections he is dust.....

by TMD Sat Jun 16, 2007 18:35

I asked a member of Eirigi, who was formerly in SF in Keogh's area, what the story was--they confirmed that he stepped down voluntarily, in fact apparently at least one Eirigi member was asked to run in Keogh's place before MLMcD was.
This person would know what they are talking about, and I can't see what motivation they would have to lie about it, since they're not in SF anymore.

by CTN Sat Jun 16, 2007 17:44

Spot on Observer, in fact I would say they haven't the presence in Dublin they had just 3 years ago.

James- I didn't disbelieve you and take on board your points, has Tony Smithers left SF altogether or just resigned from the council?

by James - EX SF Sat Jun 16, 2007 17:32

CTN, I know it for a fact. Nicky himself has told me it on a number of occasions. The fact is that Nicky was tired. He didnt want the responsibility of being a TD and all that would go with it if he was elected. There are many issues that I differ strongly with SF on. The so called shafting of Nicky is not one because it never happened. The choice was Nickys

by observer Sat Jun 16, 2007 17:24

The level of activity on the part of DSF is nothing compared to what it was even five years ago. That is the stark reality. Indeed despite having so many Councillors the party has nowhere near the level of visibility it had then. Much of this is due to the fact that it has lost a large number of members and simply does not have the resources to be involved at local level in the same way. It is also clear that the loss of people with electoral experience severely damaged their campaign.

by CTN Sat Jun 16, 2007 17:22

I heard that myself nearly 3 years ago and think it's probably true, but I'm sure you'd agree- no-one can ever be sure about anything regarding DSF...

by James - EX SF Sat Jun 16, 2007 16:57

Look I have major difficulties with SF and no longer am involved for a wide variety of reasons. But the notion that Nicky Keogh was shafted is just pure bull. He wasnt.

The leadership, including Adams, went to Nicky on numerous different occasions and begged him to run. Nicky did not want to and could not be convinced otherwise

by CTN Sat Jun 16, 2007 16:17

When organisers leave a party with no replacements it weakens that party- who do you think organises the workers for all of their protests, canvasses, leaflet drops etc?

If you choose to disbelieve me in regard to my alleged bias towards Eírigí fair enough- that is your privilege.

The reason that I mentioned them is because so many other contributors mis-evaluate SF's poor performance, understating the fact that you stated they are not present on the ground.

I feel this was the biggest factor in their poor performance, some of their ex-members predicted a bad showing a long time ago.

All these ex-members haven't joined Eírigi, most have retired in disillusionment regarding at least one of the very controversial areas you have touched on yourself.

I don't know if the Tallaght Chair resigned prior to your allegation re the Anti drugs guy or if Keogh was asked to resign but I think we can both agree that DSF are a complete shambles.

I am not linked to any political grouping- have the manners not to suggest otherwise, especially as I have only commented on how one group's emergence is damaging another.

I have at no time offered any support for any political party's policies other than to state that I voted for many parties in the last election and SF were high in my preferences.

I don't think they will be next time....

by Silversurfer Sat Jun 16, 2007 15:33

Hi CNT,

For someone who hasn’t any bias towards Eírigí you certainly spend a lot of time promoting them. Whoever is doing there publicity isn’t doing them much good, a bit more work on the ground and a bit less hype.
I don’t know who Con is but the fact remains that the core of Eírigí are based around people from the office in Parnell Square and these obviously wouldn’t be local workers on the ground. They wouldn’t have caused the loss of a significant amount of votes. In fact if what Con says is true, the former Chairman of Tallaght Sinn Fein was still a member while the local anti drug activists were shafted.
You are mistaken on Nicky Keogh, he was told to resign and Mary Lou was parachuted into Dublin Central. Keogh was too close to Whelan and would have got caught up in the Griffin case

by CTN Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:36

It was blogged on to my Opinion and Analysis Feature re Eírigí v DSF (page 2 if you are interested)

By "Con" Friday 08/06/07
20:01hrs

"It is my understanding that far from "office staff" the Shinners lost some of their best activists to Éirígí -to name but a few-their national organiser, a Dublin organiser and ironically enough (in the context of Crowe losing his seat) a former Chairman of Tallaght Sinn Fein."

More than just a few lefties Silv....

by CTN Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:08

Hi Silv,

Check the post from "Con" it details the fact that SF have lost the cream of their organisation in Dublin to Eírigí.

Whether Eírigí achieve anything or not, if they are to become an effervescent leftist micro group is neither here nor there when it came to DSF's loss of votes at this latest election.

Let me assure you the defection to Eírigí of very talented, hard working and experienced personnel from DSF did help lower that party's vote.

You misunderstand my analysis and relationship with this group- I knew some of their members whilst they were in DSF but have no bias towards either or.

In fairness to DSF, Nicky Keough resigned his candidature before Mary Lou was selected, however if the other allegations you make against DSF are believed by voters in their respective constituencies then DSF are possibly in terminal decline...

by Tom Paine Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:26

The WSM filled jammed that room with the anarchist bookfair. If a party thats around 100's of years, claims to represent 100,000's of people through its TD's and be the destiny of Ireland incarnated can't fill the hall you are well and truly fucked. The fact you think this is an achievement says this is alot. Its an an anchievement for an organisation of 40 not though one of 1000's

by SilverSurfer Sat Jun 16, 2007 00:45

Hey CTN,
While I’m enjoying the SF discomfort at their election results as much as you, I think your mates in Eírígi will have to do a little more than get arrested by the RUC to be taken seriously as a political force. In fact, with Eírígi doing fuck all except publicising themselves on indymedia, taking the piss out of SF is a bit cheeky.
Much as you would like to believe otherwise, Eírígi leaving SF didn’t affect their vote. The swing to FF simply took their vote back from SF. Adams was shit when faced with any serious questioning and obviously begging to get into coalition. IRA involvement with drug pushing child rapists in the North Inner City, SF in Tallaght shafting the local anti drugs activists and allowing the likes of Callahan to hang around on the fringes of the party, shafting Nicky Keogh in favour of Mary Lou, Dessie Ellis getting a house before more deserving local families, parachuting Joanne Spain in at the expense of the local party etc… were much bigger issues than the resignation of as couple of lefties from Parnell Square. Contrary to popular belief, SF haven’t been doing the work on the ground for the past couple of years, they have begun to take their base for granted. The local elections in 2009 will definitely be the most important elections SF have fought in years.

by CTN Fri Jun 15, 2007 17:34

But c'mon now the Teacher's club is not exactly Croke Park.

While yer countin-

1. How many resigned from Dublin in the last 3 years?
2. How many defected to Eírígi?
3. How many votes did you drop in Dublin 2002 - 2007?

After McGuinness claiming you would elect 10 + TDs lets hope SF members have learnt to keep their feet on the ground when it comes to numbers.....

by counter Fri Jun 15, 2007 16:10

"Fact is that Dublin SF has few members and fewer still who have experience of the type of work that led to electoral success in the past. "

How many members has DSF then? How many have lleft in the past five years? And where are you getting your figures?

Here's a fact for you- A meeting for DSF activists in the Teachers Club the other night had to be moved to the biggest room, because there were far too many people there to fit intoo the room that had been booked.

Has that ever happened to your party?

by CTN Fri Jun 15, 2007 15:32

To be fair they have worked on an anti-racist platform which is good, but their potential vote market contains many with strong nationalist/xenophobic tendencies.

Another problematic left/right schism that they as a broad based republican and socialist movement has to negotiate.

by 5 cent Fri Jun 15, 2007 14:05

"DSF has also neglected the concerns that people have over the effects of mass immigration,"

What do you mean by this? Are you talking about EU migration as allowed by a EU treaty that the Irish people voted for?

by CTN Fri Jun 15, 2007 13:54

In fairness they are tapped into those concerns outlined in heart, but as you have stated their membership is vastly reduced.

This is very good news for other parties as SF looked unstoppable when they had dozens of activists working on the ground for mere candidates.

In constituencies were they have or had TDs and councilors elected, these same activists have resigned or defected instead of building on their successes .

Adams and McGuinness are truly appalling team builders for DSF- the election is testament beyond dispute to that fact.

by observer Fri Jun 15, 2007 13:10

No harm to her but if she thinks that the level of SF community involvment is the same as it was in 2002 she doesn't know her own party very well. Fact is that Dublin SF has few members and fewer still who have experience of the type of work that led to electoral success in the past.

DSF has also neglected the concerns that people have over the effects of mass immigration, apartments being built on every availalbe site and the ongoing problem of anti social crime. It is no longer tapped in the same way into the concerns of Dublin working class communities.

by Bob Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:10

[I think it is interesting who replied to Ó Broin's article. I'm sure Eirigi do to.]

Joanne Spain's response to Eoin Ó Broin
It’s the nature of republicans to be overly critical of our struggle. We are often slow to praise success and quick to criticise.

As an unsuccessful candidate, I will be the first to admit that we did not have a good election. We expected to double our Leinster House representation on a bad day, triple it on a good day. I was probably number eleven or twelve on the list – so I was hoping for a good day. When I got the call that morning to say we weren’t doing as well as we’d hoped, I was gutted. But nowhere near as gutted as I felt when I heard that we weren’t doing well in Donegal, Dublin Central, Dublin North East or Dublin North West. The absolute kick in the stomach was the news that Seán Crowe’s seat was in trouble. After an election like that, we do need to put our heads together and figure out what went wrong. We need to constructively criticise – but we should be careful not to start picking away at our strategy because of one bad election.

One of Eoin’s arguments is that our success lies in slow, gradual grassroots campaigning and community work and cites our inability to win a seat in Dublin Central as an example of how we have deviated from that. Can anyone say that Larry O’Toole, Dessie Ellis or Seán Crowe ever stopped community-based campaigning? They are the consummate Sinn Féin candidates and we still did not win our much-deserved seats in those areas.

We ran many new area candidates in this election, including Mary Lou McDonald, myself, Shaun Treacy, Anna Prior and Eoin – his first time in his constituency – just to name a few. Running new candidates is a part of elections. If a representative retires, or does not want to run, somebody has to be put in their place and so Mary Lou McDonald ran in Dublin Central. She was new to the constituency, and didn’t have the same history in it as Larry or Dessie in theirs, but this was not the reason we didn’t take the seat there. The organisation behind her had worked the constituency for many years. She ran a solid campaign. She is well-known and liked by the public, as evidenced by her European election. Her selection in that constituency was not a deviation from what has worked for Sinn Féin in the past. Mary Lou as a candidate has succeeded for us before and will do so again.

Eoin also mentions the leaders’ debate. One of the myths that has been propagated by the establishment media is that Gerry somehow managed to lose us the election because of his performance on RTÉ that night. I don’t think Gerry was at his absolute best during the debate. We’ve had a long year. He had just come out of another election, a historic decision on policing and the Assembly negotiations. But it’s a reflection of how much of an asset the Sinn Féin president is that he was criticised in that debate for not being exceptional, while the Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny was forgiven for “holding his head above water” in his own debate. I expect the media to talk things like this up. I’m disappointed when republicans do the same. Fianna Fáil may have made a virtue of winning elections based on their leader, but Sinn Féin is more than one member. However our leadership performed in the media – and there were some excellent performances, including Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin on several occasions – our campaigns on the ground did not rely on their telly appearances to win seats.

Eoin also makes a point about us not defending our left-wing policies and changing them mid-campaign. He says that the centre ground in Irish politics is too crowded and that Sinn Féin does not belong there. He mentions voters in Dublin South Central turning to Bríd Smith and Joan Collins. I agree that we seemed to lose consistency on taxation mid-campaign. We need to work extensively on our economic policy for future elections. But I take offence at Eoin’s brush-stroke remarks that we failed to defend our left-wing policies.

The fact is that we have many, many left-wing policies that never saw the light of day in the campaign thanks to the continued censorship of our biased media. I hosted the press conference in which we laid out our extremely radical health policies, for example. RTÉ didn’t even mention Sinn Féin that day. Throughout the campaign, the policies we were putting out were either ignored or marginalised for not being costed to the last cent.

As republicans, we should have always been ready for some sort of hostile media onslaught during this campaign. Previously they had the War; now they have our policies. Why was anybody surprised? How can Eoin quote “the media” as an authority on us “evading” taxation answers? Does Eoin consider what “the media” thinks as gospel?

Ultimately, apart from taxation, what radical republican policies can we be accused of departing from during the campaign? Did we stop talking about social housing? Free public health care? The equality agenda? Did we revise our position on the IRA? No. None of this happened. We messed up on taxation – nothing else. This was not a departure from left politics as we know it. Incidentally, I met both Bríd Smith and Joan Collins in a radio debate during the campaign. When I brought up the Hunger Strikers and the presenter – as they are wont to do – subsequently brought up Jerry McCabe, both women turned on me. If they are an example of the candidates that left voters turned to then I think we need to question our education of voters, not our policies. Look, there are a lot of reasons why it didn’t happen for us in this election.

The Left isn’t doing so well throughout Europe at the moment. And Ireland’s economy is thriving. People may not be entirely happy, but they are content. We as a party may feel that our policies are the only sane way of moving forward in this country, but that does not mean every voter agrees. We had high expectations arising from our recent successes in the North. Perhaps we should have considered two things: first, that the North working out may have taken us off the agenda somewhat and second, that talking up the Assembly - a small parliament and something we consider not so important in the scale of our all-Ireland goal – may have been slightly naïve.

Perhaps the main mistake we made in this election was that we expected society to move with us before it was ready to accept the progress that Sinn Féin has made and the new left alternative available. Yes, we could have done more to increase our vote, but let’s not tear up our strategy figuring out where we went wrong. Let’s be a little bit fatalistic and accept the facts – this was an election about who was going to make up the Government and we didn’t feature as strongly in it as we would have liked. More importantly, it was simply not our time.

We’re the same party. We’re getting stronger. Let’s accept our loss and move on.

by realist Fri Jun 15, 2007 07:39

Credibility is a major problem SF face, particularly given moves to the centre that were readily exposed as opportunistic.

The alternatives of (a) same leadership move more to centre, or, (b) same leadership move back to left, are not credible.

(a) SF will lose more disaffected activists as has been highlighted by many already, and will suffer further in the centre as this election has demonstrated.

(b) Again it will be exposed as opportunistic.

Only changes at the top can achieve a move back to left with credibilty. This is how it is accomplished in normal democratic political parties.

The changes are best accomplished by resignation as, given SF's elected positions in the Assembly and Executive held by leadership figures, implementation would have enough difficulties.

by CTN Tue Jun 12, 2007 14:05

After his party's Special Ard Fhies re policing, Adams automatically announced the shinners would be in coalition- this was an enormous shift in rhetoric and aspirational policy as they had previously stated that a coalition would only be determinable by a special Ard Fheis of its own.

Gleeful with his massive majority to back the PSNI - blind that those opposed to such had resigned, a deluded Adams had taken his members and the electorate for granted.

The turbulence within SF must now be unimaginable as a blame game is fought out amongst further disillusionment, a re-selection of candidates for the coming locals after such a disaster and a polemic economics debate re. creating a new, credible policy.

Unionism is looking on in mirth and young radicals are looking elsewhere for an apprenticeship in revolutionary's politics.

Now Adams supposed greatness as both a strategist and leader will be tested to the max.

Yes he can admit personal contribution to the fiasco- earning respect from those who feel failed and begin rebuilding in Dublin anew for those crucial elections in '09.

Were DSF to lose Mary Lou, and/or council seats they be leaving O'Snodaigh on Death row, reducing them to a peace process phenomena, fading as quickly as they arrived .....

by Eamon Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:33

Or no principles at all. The arguments of Sinn fein supporters are really quite remarkable. 'Rule nothing out' seems to be the mantra. That is simply another way of stating that you have no real or definable bottom line and that absolutely everything you stand for is negotiable. Look at Adams a while back speaking at a meeting of the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, reassring them of how Sinn Fein would be 'realistic' if they got into office in a coalition--in other words, don't worry boys, we'll make sure that your interests will be well served in any government we are in. As for the view that somehow the sinn Fein view on coalitions is predicated on a belief that there might be some kind of coalition of the Left--that is downright dishonest. Sinn Fein'esleaders made it clear that they would have entered coalition with....any and every party that would have them. There is no strategy in Sinn Fein for developing links with the Left, or even with the other parties outside of FF and FG. No strategy, except a pathetic, bleating spineless opportunism, and willingness to abandon everything that they stand for in order to get their hands on some of the levers of power.

It is hard to believe that this is the same movement that once stood up to the might of British Imperialism and produced people such as Bobby Sands. They are totally bankrupt politically and shameless in their opportunism

by CTN Tue Jun 12, 2007 00:26

Ans= Yes.

This is an SF instigated thread, catch my drift- old bean.

What would you like me to comment on- The French Riviera?

by Pers cap Mon Jun 11, 2007 17:28

Many people would contend that there will not be a government formed in the foreseeable future in the 26 counties that does not include either Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael.

Others surmise that there may be a possible realignment in Irish politics in the future, with the right wing parties on one side, and a rainbow of left wing parties of various hues on the other. Some say it would be possible for all the left and left-leaning parties to someday form a government without the big two.

Foir a small party, to rule out coalition under any circumstances is to rule out any hope you might have of being in government.

Whatever happens in the future though, it was certain that the government formed after the 2007 election would contain either one or the other of the two right-wing parties.

Sinn Féin's stance was to rule out nothing, since the party saw that the next Dáil was going to be unstable, with the possibility of power in the hands of small parties and independents who were willing to coalesce.

However, it's unlikely that either of the two right-wing parties would be able to fit a programme of government around Sinn Féin's policies. SF has given unequivical support to the campaign to re route the M3, the Rossport campaign, the issue of Shannon and Ireland's support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, and many other specific issues which both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael would have severe problems accommodating. Sinn Féin's attitude to tax, health, transport, infrasture, education and training, drugs, law and order, and many other issues would also be at odds with the received wisdom of the conservative parties.

However, as the Green party is no doubt finding out, it's better not to rule anything out when negotiating with the big parties.

Fianna Fáil, particularly, have a track record of radically changing their policies to retain power.

So it may someday be possible to reach agreements on some of the above.

In the Irish STV electoral system, ruling out coalition can have the effect of losing transfers from others parties, and although the power of transfers is overrated, for a party like Sinn Féin, whether Fianna Fáil voters give your candidates their number 2 and 3 preference votes can sometimes have a dramatic effect.

So ruling out coalition would be poor politics.

Various people are putting forward their hindsight reasoning for why Sinn Féin did not make expected gains in the election, but it's important to try and use clear reasoning, and try not get into the whole "why didn' t they listen to me?" litany, which often comes from those who did absolutely nothing to improve the party's chances, and in many cases did their best to damage Sinn Féin.

Their views, in my opinion, should not be given as much weight as those who, like Eoin Ó Broin, did their best to work for electoral success.

by bored Mon Jun 11, 2007 17:15

Why are you so obsessed with Sinn Fein? Do you ever post about anything else?

by CTN Mon Jun 11, 2007 16:33

Quite so Eammon, because they've all been purged or resigned in disgust....

by Eamon Mon Jun 11, 2007 16:04

Eoin O Broin can write all the long-winded, and vacuous, articles he wants to about how radical Sinn Fein are etc, but unless he is willing to criticise the chronic opportunism that lies at the heart of his party leadership's strategy, it will count for nothing. The truth is that the republican leadership during this election showed that they were desperate to get into bed with Fianna Fail, despite the fact that that party are not only neo-liberal in their economic and social policy, but would have dwarfed Sinn fein in any coalition. How can you expect your radicalism to be taken seriously when your leaders are kow-towing to reactionaries and making it clear that they will jump through hoops to get into power with them? The Adams strategy and all that underpins it has to be rejected completely, but there is more chance of Hell freezing over than anyone ever challenging Gerry in Sinn Fein, the radical Eoin included

by Rev Malcolm X - Church of Marx Mon Jun 11, 2007 13:47

one of these corrupt individuals was out canvassing for SF in Dublin
I have to say the interview which councillor Christy Burke, did with Paul Williams on Joe Duffy. was a insult to peoples intelligence. we all know Williams, agenda. his past political links to the Pds. the articles which were written by MIck Caffery, Sunday Tribune, Jim Cusack, Sunday Indo. ever so intelligent, Mr Williams are very serious. which have not been addressed by SF leader-ship in Dublin.

by Red midget Sun Jun 10, 2007 19:02

Eoin ran himself in Dun Laoghaire where Sinn Feins vote was nearly halved not by Fianna Fail but RBB, his analysis recognises where Sinn Fein went drastically wrong using his own elections as a perfect example which he fails to admit. Does that mean Eoin is goin to get the finger out now and walk the walk instead of talkin the talk?

Fintan O Toole put it well recently when he said "Sinn Fein is a party of protest that doesnt protest enough"

by CTN Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:12

Tom,

A point of clarification, I omitted to state my synopsis was pertaining to Dublin only.

The points listed are not reasons people stopped voting for SF but are reasons that SF's membership has declined.

Dennis Donaldson was a high profile and influential SF member- to have been working for MI5 for 22 years undetected by the party leadership added to the lack of confidence wavering members had regarding their party's direction and in turn confidence in their leadership itself.

Those factors stacked up were reasons people gave for leaving SF, they were obviously under quite a strain pre-resigning.

by Otegi Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:54

Pearse Doherty, Joe Reilly, Daithi Doolain, David Cullinane etc. are now three time losers. They have probably reached the end of the road as credible candidates and SF has probably blown close to a million euro on wages and offices for these candidates. The problem is not with candidates or campaigning. It is what SF has become. People are rational beings and if offered the choice between FF and and SF offering FF policies and shouting about how much they woul like to be in government with them- they took the rational decision and voted for the real deal.
The future is clear- more policies will be dumped and personnell and publicaions which are not on message will be side lined. It is time for progressive republican activists to leave SF. The party leadership has always rubbished the alternatives but involvement in the myriad of community groups, youth groups, sporting organisations, other parties, single issue campaigns or solidarity groups mean there are plenty of alternatives. What is clear is that nothing progressive can be achieved by continuing inside SF.

by tom paine Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:05

1. Corrupt individuals achieved seniority within the IRA in Dublin and this went unpunished for years.
2. They feel shortchanged by IRA disbandment for a Paisley led govt.
3. The Donaldson & Steaknife/Scappitici scandals.
4. Adams made a ninny out of himself on Prime time- their most vital hour on TV to promulgate.
5. Defections to Eirigi- the new republican force in Dublin, led by energetic and talented ex DSFers

the first one i'm not sure what exactly your referring to.
i'm not sure the donaldson/stakeknife issues affected the vote. Sinn Fein told donaldson to get a lawyer and its almost certain that the PIRA collectively had nothing to do with his death so allin all I think they came out appearing as if they had actually changed.
The disbandment of the provos from a voter perspective regardless what you mighht think of this move probably did nothing to damage the vote. They could appeal to a more middle class constituency and also its teh first step to showing they are well and truly buying into capitalism.
Adams may have not done well but I don't think he was that bad
Eirigi's departure can not explain why golden boy O Doherty did not get it or Dessie Ellis didn't get it
either

The main reason is not these. Most of these are symptoms or teh same desease - th emove to the centreor not it and teh co option of a radical movement (like it represents teh radical tardition in Ireland). the IRA were disbanded because this was not acceptable to the business classes in the state north or south of the border. The adams performance was because he fell between the stoolsof appealing to the working clas and teh middle class. The departure of Eirgi is obvious.

Its quite interesting that there is open criticism of the hierarchy in a public forum though, I'm personally not sure an organisation as authoriatrian could reform to be more democratic without destroying itself. The structure and organisation forms around the idea behind it.

by CTN Sat Jun 09, 2007 02:26

They lost because.

Their membership are retiring in disillusionment as,

1. Corrupt individuals achieved seniority within the IRA in Dublin and this went unpunished for years.
2. They feel shortchanged by IRA disbandment for a Paisley led govt.
3. The Donaldson & Steaknife/Scappitici scandals.
4. Adams made a ninny out of himself on Prime time- their most vital hour on TV to promulgate.
5. Defections to Eirigi- the new republican force in Dublin, led by energetic and talented ex DSFers.

The Adams purge of critics and rival intellectuals has also shrunk their activist base.

Despite increasing councilors in the '04 locals with 3 years constituency work SF's vote is down on '02.

Stop avoiding their problems with jabberwocky and address them for their situation to ameliorate......

by Jolly Red Giant - Socialist Party/CWI Fri Jun 08, 2007 22:16

YES

by Tourish reader Fri Jun 08, 2007 22:05

"Anyone who considers themselves a socialist and is a member of SF is more than welcome to discuss with the SP areas of common ground and their application for membership of the SP would be welcomed."

Has anyone ever left Sinn Féin and joined the SP? I know there are former SF members in a few different parties, but have never heard of anyone joining either of the cult parties. Has it ever actually occured?

by Jolly Red Giant - Socialist Party/CWI Fri Jun 08, 2007 21:47

does the SP say they want to unite the 32 counties with Britain?

the SP advocates a socialist Ireland as part of a free and voluntary socialist federation of Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales

The SP are internationalist and support joint action by workers against capitalism no matter where they live.

As for Sinn Fein - they appear to be quite happy to do deals with:

Bertie Ahern
Tony Blair
George Mitchell
Bill Clinton
George W Bush
Ian Paisley & co.
etc.

I would unite with the english/welsh/scottish working class anyday in preference to doing deals with these individuals and what they represent.

by JN Fri Jun 08, 2007 21:32

Why would any Sinn Féin supporter, socialist or otherwise, want to join a party that advocates union of the 32 counties with Britain?

by JD Fri Jun 08, 2007 21:13

I like Eoins analysis and have often wondered why someone so articulate and genuinely political is so gung ho about SFs left wing credentials. Its been my experience that SF developed well as a grassroots opposition party who didnt need any policies as most of their political power came from rhetoric and solidarity on the one hand and violence and victimhood on the other. That was a pretty heady mix and was more than enough to make up for the fleeting nature of their actual policies. A look back over the last couple of decades indicates that SF have vascilated from notional left to conservative positions on any number of issues; choice, taxation, partition, PPP etc but for whatever reason failed quite seriously to develop a foundation of critical policies and positions that could give the party an identity beyond the slow dance in the north. This has caught up with them as is evidenced by the results of this election. They have a number of very serious problems preventing them from expanding from their current position and I expect that they will fail in the future to overcome them.

Expectations for this election were a misreading of the reasons for SFs electoral success in the south up to this point. SF recieved middle class votes as an endorsement of the peace process which is essentially a rejection of militant repubicanism. Mary lous euro success is a real indication of this as is her failure this time round. For both the party and the voters she symbolises a kind of detente, she got votes for having nothing to do with the north. At its base SF is a conservative coalition with a minority left element seemingly without influence. The scary thing for them is that the 'war leadership' of Adams Mcg etc have little or no traction in the south and are utterly out of touch. They are an easy mark for FF and the rest cos now that they are partners of the British in administering the north much of their rhetorical identitiy has been vaporised. That leaves them as a bunch of outsiders who sound amateurish and shallow. Eoins characterisation of SF as a leftwing alternative is based more on aspiration and projectin than on reality, SF are tempramentally and politically much closer to the 'socialism' of FF than any other set of ideas their members might wish on them.

by Jolly Red Giant - Socialist Party/CWI Fri Jun 08, 2007 20:55

Firstly I don't know if it is actually worth the effort to reply to this piece. The reason being is that this is not the first time that Eoin O Broin has posted an article on here and then chosen to absolutely ignore the following commentary. If individuals post here then they should be prepared to come back on and defend the position that they have taken.

Anyway I have a little time so here goes -

This article is primarily a rehash of a previous one posted in April
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/81961

with a little more left rhetoric and criticism of the leadership thrown in.

In terms of election analysis:
'Labour, the Greens and Sinn Féin simply remained stagnant'.

While Labour and the GP did by and large remain stagnant, SF did go backwards. SF lost one seat, came very close to losing another and in the majority of the constituencies where they stood in 2002 their vote actually dropped. The overall vote increased because they stood in a number of extra constituencies.

I think it is an overestimation of the threat that FF felt was posed by SF to suggest that their strategy was based on 'taking out' the SF threat. The group FF successfully targetted were the undecided voters and they targetted them against all the other parties.

Criticism of the SF leadership:
'Our dramatic failure to poll well in Dublin Central, let alone win a seat, should be a lesson to us for the future not to deviate from what has worked in the past.'

This is clearly a swipe at the parachuting in of Mary Lou McDonald.

Second swipe
'Our attempt to avoid the issue of taxation was seen by the media for what it was: an exercise in evasion. The pre-election abandonment of our policies on corporation tax, capital gains tax and a 50% upper band made us appear inconsistent to many, irrespective of their actual view on the policy.'

The abandonment of these limited demands did not make SF appear inconsistant - it made SF appear what they actually were - no different from the rest.

Third swipe
'The centre ground is a crowded political place. Sinn Féin does not belong there and should not be in the business of trading fundamental redistributive policies in the hope of short-term electoral gain. That’s a kind of politics that we should leave to Fianna Fáil.'

Well Eoin - the reality is that this is where SF has been when participating in the Northern Executive for the past few years - and for 'centre ground' read 'right-wing neo-liberal'

Now explanation please:
'More importantly, it also alienated left-of-centre voters, who chose instead left independents such as Brid Smyth and Joan Collins, almost costing Aengus Ó Snodaigh his seat.'

Who did these alienated left-of-centre voters choose in Dublin SW, in Dublin NW and in Dublin SE for example?

O'Broin talks about the parties of the left being LP, GP and SF. At least he has dropped the inclusion of 'progressive forces' in Fianna Fail.

This comment says more about the political position that O'Broin is presenting than anything else.
The GP are not left -wing. Sargent made a point during the leaders debate that the GP are in government with a party like the PD's in the Czech Republic in order to counter-act the claim from McDowell that they were the 'left-overs'. There policies are green/liberal at best. They support water charges, bin tax, carbon taxes etc - all of which have a greater impact on working class people than anyone else.
The LP had a left component up until the 1980's, not since - and again support water charges, bin tax, tax amnesties for the rich, privatisation etc. They are a party of the right.
As for Sinn Fein - when it is expedient they also support these exact same policies.
So there is common ground with the LP and GP but that common ground is not on the left, just as in the North the common ground with the DUP is not on the left.

Platitudes like 'an Ireland of equals' are meaningless and in the last election voters recognised them as such.

to state:
'The absence of a clear and meaningful alternative was Fine Gael and Labour’s weakness. That is the space where Sinn Féin belongs and where our future growth is to be found.'

shows where O'Broin sees SF positioned - in the same spot as FG, LP, GP - just sounding a bit more radical.

The poor performance of SF in the recent election was precisely because SF was, is and sounded exactly the same as the rest. And furthremore is incapable of moving from this position. I expect the use more left rhetoric in the future but in terms of politics the shift in a rightward direction will win out. Anyone who considers themselves a socialist and is a member of SF is more than welcome to discuss with the SP areas of common ground and their application for membership of the SP would be welcomed.

by Dapper Tandy Fri Jun 08, 2007 18:46

A Chara, you got it exactly right when you state that across the country Fianna Fail's percentage increases almost matched Sinn Fein's decrease.
Sinn Fein is the Fianna Fail of the North. There is no need for one here in the South: we already have a Fianna Fail.
Plus Sinn Fein announced publicly before the election not just their willingness to enter a coalition with Fianna Fail, but stated that such a coalition was a certainty.
Sinn Fein might as well merge with Fianna Fail: There is just no room for two constitutional republican parties.

by Jed Fri Jun 08, 2007 18:31

"Sinn Féin should continue to develop and defend our platform as a radical, left-wing republican party"
Maybe your buddys in the North should have thought about that before climbing into bed with Tony, Ian and all the rest of the big nobs in the Brit government.

by Rev Malcolm X - Church of Marx Fri Jun 08, 2007 16:32

yes the right rev Malcolm X. read Eoins Personal analysis

I disagree with Eoin that Brid Smith or Joan Collins. could have lost Aengus seat.

I also disagreed with Gerry taking part in studio debate with the arrogant obnoxious Mc Dowell. Gerry
should have torn Mc Dowell apart politically. when Mc Dowell comments towards Sinn Fein, that they had posters accusing Mc Dowell of been a rascist. outside his constituency office, during the racist referendum2004. let us not forget Mc Dowell comments about been at Dublin aiport,at immigration. that people coming off planes seeking asylum, in Ireland with their cock and bull stories. that he would send them back on their first flight of origin. may I say I was fuming with Gerry comments toMc Dowell. no Michael you are not a racist

Mc Dowell remarks about Gerrys house in Donegal. Gerry should have told Mc Dowell about his home been built in Roscommon, without planning permission.

the bull about 25 million from Colombia. I would have laughted and said prove it have you forgotten about ex lord mayor, of Dublin Michael keating PDS

the left Comrade Eoin which I agree with you has to be on the ground with left political class analysis. not afraid of working class empowerment

letu's celebrate at the smashing of the PDS during this election
working class people haven't gone away

Aengus oSnodaigh, comment when he deafted Eric Byrne, Labour by 69 votes is interesting.