French Elections - ISN article

by Apparat - ISN Tue May 08, 2007 19:55

Sorry, only half of that article was on the ISN site for the last few hours. The full version is up now!

by G Timony Sun Aug 19, 2007 15:30

You have to be careful about using the term radical left in a French context as the political party MRG (movemente radicaux de gauche - movement of the left radicals) has traditionally been to the right of the PS (parti socialiste) . This is a historical thing dating to the time before WW2 when French politics was dominated by 'radicals' (read liberal in the French context). of various hues. Hench 'radical-leftists' are simply those who choose to align with Gauche rather Droit following the founding of the 5th republic in the late 50s. Sorry about the nitpicking, but I imagine that French speakers at least might be a bit confused by this article!
Also the article does not sufficiently address the issue of the collapse of the 'trotkyist' vote from 13% in 2002 to around 3% in 2007. This means that parties to the left of the PS (taken as a whole) had pretty much their worst result ever since the 1920s.. (The entire left vote at approx 36% including PS and greens was also the worst since the 'socialist' collapse in 1968)
The high turnout means that many must have switched directly to Sarkozy or the 'centrist' candidate. (Though no doubt there was large abstensions among previous leftist activists for whatever reasons) Were the youth so desperate for jobs that they would vote for the 'McDonaldisation' that Sarkozy's reforms would most likely bring about? This is a key question I think, not to mention a worrying one in what it will mean for workers' rights..

by Fred Johnston Mon Aug 20, 2007 03:08 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

In spite of this one can only speculate as to how many on what might be termed the Left in France voted for Ségo Royale as an 'antidote' to Sarkozy.

by aristotle Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:00

As a summer resident in Brittany I have more than a passing interest in the shake-out which took place here. Brittany, by the way is pretty much a righist fiefdom since the times of the Revolution. I am writing from Le Pen's former constiruency in south Brittany.

Here is my take on what happened:

1. The huge turnout reflected a sense of panic here that France has been adrift, that her competitors (UK and a resurgent Germany) are leaving her behind, and that something had to be done.

2. The various Trotskyite candidates have always been a protest phenomenen rather than a serious vote for serious contenders. The size of the turnout and the paucity of the protest vote is evidence of the seriousness most French people feel about the current state of France. Trots were a luxury the electorate no longer could afford.

3. The French have copped on that the Socialists and the various labour-protection laws only protect France's bloated overpaid and over-priveleged public-service. These laws do less to protect private employees than to discourage employment.

4. The French are determined not to go down the "multicultural" route like the UK. Despite the recent banleu riots Fance, by it's official policy of integration rather than multiculturalism has not spawned the alienation and radicalism evident in the UK Moslem community (Just look at how few Jihadists the huge French Moslem community has produced). The Socialists were seen by the electorate to e backsliding on this issue. Sarkozy's position was rock-solid and widely popular (particularly with young Moslem women)

5. No-one knew what Royal stood for on any particular day.

I would expect a prompt French recovery. Morale is already improving now that the despised Chirac as gone, as is the employment situation. Foreign policy will not change much under Sarkoz. His cozying up to the US is extremely popular as is his determination not to ecome "poodleized" like the UK. Fance has the advantage of a good base on which to go forward. Her infrastructure is Rolls Royce - health-service, telecommunications, transport infrastructure. She ade a precient choice in plumping for nuclear power to generate her electricity and is in a much better shape than most other western nations to meet the challenge of the energy crisis.

France is the best place in the world for people with a job (or retrees like me fein). For the rest, putting more to work is the best remedy. On tha front things are already improving under Sarkozy. The expansive rights of ench public-employees will not put baguettes on the tables of the unemployed.

by gurgle Mon Aug 20, 2007 19:14

It's "allez la France" not "allez France". I think if you find any neighbours in your retirement neck of the woods who speak French they'll confirm that "allez France" is the name of a UK based retirement holiday company who specialise in buying or leasing properties in France cheaply. But it's not the lack of the definite article "la" which has brought me at last with no small delight to have a poke in your eye Dr Aristotle - oh no. It's the utter crap about Le Pen.

Jean Marie Le Pen was born June 20th, 1928, in La Trinité-sur-Mer, Brittany the son of a fisherman who was later to be killed when his craft hit a WW1 sea-mine. He entered politics in the early 1950's & whilst then head of the student union in Toulouse saw that south western constituency as the first he contested but it was not till 1956 that he entered the National Assembly for a Parisien constituency. He has been a resident of Paris for the majority of his life for the good reason that he inherited a castle in the outskirts of that city in St Cloud from the industrialist Hubwert Lambert in 1977- This was five years after he had co-founded the "Front National" in 1972 in Paris - & it was in Paris that he began his campaigning quite without success the FN winning 0.74% of the votes in 1974. After which LePen rather than focussing on a local constituency decided to contest the European Parliament elections and won seats in 1984 and 1999. His stint in the 80's was unremarkable but his stint in the 90's saw him charged with assault of a fellow deputy and stripped of his immunity so as to face German courts for Holocaust denial.

Lastly the results of both the presidential and national assembly elections in the region of Brittany showed a majority for the centrist candidate except for the north coastal area of Brest where Segolene Royal won comfortably.

So utter bollox to you Dr Aristotle.
alas, you don't really deserve the pseudonom you have used to troll various threads on this site.

by aristotle Tue Aug 21, 2007 14:37

Allez France is a cliche (rather like yourself). Go to a footie match.

Here in Locmariaquer Le Pen is considered a local (but not much loved) son here. Had I googled his political career I could have been just as much a pedantic ass as you. However, I hadn't much considered that my blog would have been of such interest to someone with Junior Cert French and up his own ass.

Beyrou is from the right in spite of his (ill-fated) attempt to portray himself as occupying the political ground 'between' Sarkozy and Royal. You should have Googled him too.

Brest, Lorient and one or two other connurbations (ask daddy to explain the word) are exceptions to the general conservatism of Brittany.

When you finish your leaving cert get back and you discuss the substantive issues you completely ignored

by Fred Johnston Tue Aug 21, 2007 17:25

'Aristotle' is hard to take seriously. On top of which, he rather douses his argument by being unable to spell Royale. He leaves out the 'e'. France already is a 'multi-cultural' country, so what's he on about? He seems to be transporting an insular mind-set to the Hexagon. Ségo was defeated, in my view, because Sarko played on some old primal fears prominent amongst the bourgoisie and ordinary French people and by resurrecting a version of 'France - c'est moi!' (The original, before you correct me, was 'L'état - c'est moi!') This does not mean that parties supporting the workers are necessarily made invisible. There are real fears too amongst the young, second generation poor French that they are in the State but not of it. Sarko has no antidote for that.

by Fred Johnston Tue Aug 21, 2007 17:28

I was in your region, in the rain, a few weeks ago. Lovely area, but distinctly 'comfortable.' By the way, the word, much abused, is not 'substantive', but 'substantial'.

by aristotle Tue Aug 21, 2007 18:39

Dear Fred,

Oh that the Lord would gi'e us.........

Segolene Royal (without the 'e') was the Socialist Party candidate. Thankfully, hubris has it's own reward.

Also for the benefit of all your fellow pedants, I make no apologies for my typos (in whatever language they appear - and they are many - the typos, I mean. Life is too short to edit and re-edit)

Grey day again in Locmariaquer. Breezy too. The area is certainly comfortable in a middle-class family-holiday sort of way. The downside is the traffic to the peninsula in the summer months. La Trinite itself is a dump unless you are into yacht-racing. BTW, the nicest place hereabouts (or anywhere in France) is Belle Isle. The island is a 40 min hop on the ferry from Quiberon (Aer Arann to Lorient, train via Auray to Quiberon). Beautiful walks and cycl-paths, little traffic, amazing towns and hamlets, Vauban's magnificant fortifications for those interested in history. Nicest hostel in France.

Isn't it amazing how the neo-con take on the banlieu riots is so similar to that of the fringe-left! They both see it as an Islamic phenomonen for diferent reasons. The former see it as evidence of an Islamic take-over of Europe. The latter see it as evidence of a failure to embrace multiculturalism. In fact, while the reasons why depressed suburbs may be prone to riots is political, the riots themselves were not politically or ethnically motivated or organized. Sarkozy did rather well in many of these neighbourhoods where the majority see the solution is his prescription of equalizing opportunity and insisting on law and order. I also stick with my general analysis as to why the French voted as they did.

Finally: English is an evolving language. In my humble opinion (unlike youself, I am capable of error) current usage of the word 'substantial' is to connote a large proportion of, or something proportionately large. The word 'substantive' is used to describe the central or root issue as distinct from procedural or peripheral issues.

Thank you for your lecture 'ex cathedra' (pardon my latin)

by gurgle Tue Aug 21, 2007 22:00

& all you can do is taunt me with "junior cert French"? Oh well, of the seven languages I regularly use French is one of my favourites & since taking part in the 1997 mobilisation in Strassbourg to stop the extension of the FN - I've taken "a passing interest" in LePen. Indeed I've written in reasonably French for a few of the French indymedia collectives & throughout our material on French politics you will find links I provided to the commercial and activist media of that state in their language.

You are a troll Aristotle. I think it would be in the best interest of many to see your ISP blocked, you have constantly filled the comments on some very sensitive issues and difficult threads for the latest generation in Ireland with misleading sophistry. & this final crap about France, her politics and LePen is but the icing on the cake. I could go on - France has no EU constituency, Ireland is one of the few states where you can say a MEP represents a constituency, of the many areas of France the most ethnically homogenous are Brittany, the area of the French Basque and some isolated parts of the Massif Central. In the last presidential elections those regions were key indications to the attitude of the French to the further decentralisation proposed by Royal, it thus very significant that those region saw support for the Centrist candidate. But who am I writing for? someone who dismisses the labour conditions of the French as "mcdonaldism"? someone who uses slogans and references more suiting to a far right site than any indymedia? someone whose understanding of France is seen from the windows of a holiday home in a region which still is recovering from the ecodisaster of the Erika and suffering amongst the highest unemployment in the state? or our readership . Aristotle your contributions over the last while to those threads and topics I call "sensitive" has been anything but "sensitive" or in keeping with the debate we hold amongst "our readership" and "our contributors". It doesn't even reflect society has seen by either the main trade unions in France or Brittany or the youth or left mobilisations before or after the elections in France or Brittany. So if you've nothing to contribute nor can offer any factually correct information - then I suggest you stop.

by aristotle Tue Aug 21, 2007 22:56

Well, Mr. Junior Cert.

Far from "still recovering from the Erika disaster" there is not the slightest trace left on this coastline of the Erica spillage. Nor has there been any trace for upward of two years. This writer was in Peneton that Christmas and witnessed the clean-up over the ensuing weeks. I frequently walk the cliff-paths on the western side of Belle Isle - geographically the closest place downwind of where the Erica foundered and the place worst effected by the spillage. I have not seen a trace of oil or tar in recent years and the bird observatory at Les Poulains is of the opinion that the wildlife, and shorelife have fully recovered long ago.

Your knowlege of the reality of life here is about equal to your grasp of seven languages at Junior Cert or any other level. No wonder you have such confidence in the cogency of your arguments that you want to censor people who say things you dont like.

It's you, not the Breton seashore that seems to be in a sticky mess.

by G timony Wed Aug 22, 2007 17:42

Your quote; "someone who dismisses the labour conditions of the French as "mcdonaldism"?".
My quote; "Were the youth so desperate for jobs that they would vote for the 'McDonaldisation' that Sarkozy's reforms would most likely bring about?"

Thanks for putting words in my mouth yet again. My intention was not to dismiss the he labour conditions of the French, but to make a (perhaps not to clear) point about the 'globalisation' and de-unionisation currently going on in France (and the rest of the 'western' world for that matter). And why in hell are people actually voting for it! I personally for example have never even had an opportunity to join a union in over 20 years of my working life! I was hoping to get some sort of 'intelligent' debate going on what might be done to reverse this process. Instead we are getting this increasingly rabid slagging match going nowhere.

by gurgle Wed Aug 22, 2007 21:04

Quite right the oil was removed. Within two years the incidents of skin cancer resulting from exposure to the contaminants the volunteers who cleaned the beaches had astounded both health professionals & led to a class action suit against the government which is yet to be settled. Many of those who now suffer cancer and other conditions live in Brittanny - your holiday home neighbours.

yet again you are exposed as an utter bullshitter. but in any case here is the link to the trial process of 2007 resulting from the disaster - oh yep it's in french "your holiday language" http://www.coordmareenoire.net/rubrique.php3?id_rubriqu...e=422

Now to my knowledge of life in Brittany or more to the point France - well, I have lived on the continent for more years than I care to remember, I work in a multi-lingual environment side by side with French citizens & yep - I weekend across the Pyrennes in France. Now aristotle - neither you and I ever sat the Junior Cert - so leave off the miserable attempt at insult & give us some factual information. Why don't you use your professional expertise and write us a report on the dermetological consequences of the Erika & true to the spirit of this website explain how the experiences of volunteers who were not offered protective clothing influenced the next comparative disaster in Europe -that of the Prestige in Galicia.

you are a troll Aristotle - no matter what sockpuppet name you use.

by gurgle Wed Jan 16, 2008 13:17

This update goes here because the comments above exposed the ignorance of one commentator to our newswire who under the name "aristotle" used quite happily troll away claiming a special knowledge of all things french & breton.

The court has accepted that the Erika disaster in which an oil tanker sank with a resultant slick of 20,000 tons on 400 km of Breton coastline has left lasting ecological damage, incurable diseases & was the result of negligent disaster management by the French state. But for the moment the devil appears to be Total Oil.

.........."On Dec.12, 1999, an oil tanker named Erika, headed for Saint-Nazaire, a port city in northern France, was wrecked at sea just hours after sending out a distress signal. The ship’s crew made a narrow escape, and was rescued by helicopter. In less than 10 days, shoreline residents witnessed oil spills that spread over more than 400 km of France’s eastern coast – from Brittany to the central Charente-Maritime region. In all, Erika lost more than 19,000 tons of heavy fuel - more than half the vessel’s cargo. The economic loss was accompanied by an unprecedented ecological disaster. More than 150,000 seabirds died due to the contamination. “We have been touched to the flesh,” said Jean-Yves Le Drian, chief minister of the Brittany region, during the 2007 trial. “We live in constant fear of a new disaster.” Seven years of administrative wrangling followed the incident, culminating in a lengthy trial last year, in which 110 local authorities represented the prosecution. The battle, however, is nearing its end – the Paris High Court is finally expected to rule on the Erika Wednesday.A billion euros for “ecological prejudice”? A 375,000 euro fine for pollution due to negligence has been claimed from the Total group, the French energy giant that chartered Erika. Fines have also been claimed from Erika’s Italian ship-owner, from the vessel’s management company and from its Indian captain, who was absent from the trial. However, the affair is being followed less for the sanctions than for the precedent the ruling could set in French law. The Paris High Court may well set a legal precedent titled “ecological prejudice”. The notion, so far non-existent in French law, goes a step further than simply claiming expenses borne to clean up the spillage. Under this new legal concept, a financial estimate of environmental damage in the areas concerned is also included. “The time for pretty speeches is over,” said Gwenael Wasse of the environmental group, Friends of the Earth. “Total should now prove that it is a responsible company by claiming full responsibility, and by accepting the serious impact of its activities from which it reaps monumental profits.” The Economic Research Institute (INRA) has estimated the value of the ecological damage at 350 million euros. The prosecution, including the French state, claims a billon euros. If such a concept is legally approved, it will reinforce the dictum of “he who pollutes, pays.” Most environmentalists are hoping for the new ruling, which could dramatically change the way maritime transporters function– and perhaps avoid another case of history repeating itself.

french links
http://info.france2.fr/france/38403209-fr.php
http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/france/justice/0,,3683014,00-er....html
http://www.europe1.fr/informations/articles/789411/nauf....html

english links
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/080115-er...ll-mc
http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSL141...80114
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Meanwhile, more in keeping with this thread - Nicolas Sarkozy has for the second time in 2008 recorded negative popular support, but for the first time the majority of French citizens are expressing dis-satisfaction. http://www.challenges.fr/actualites/business/20080115.C....html

http://www.francebourse.com/fiche_news_22290.fb This of course is related to his relationship with former super model Carla Bruni, but there are other factors worth considering too. Today's "Liberation" finds itself worrying about the amount of references to the christian roots of France which have been clocked up by Sarko since he called on Ratzinger last December 20th (deftly avoiding the Blair conversion) http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/societe/304213.FR.php
Though it is worth remembering that public opinion (be it negative or positive) is not really a factor which will speed the end of either Sarko or Ratzi.

So rather than worrying about Carla Bruni, the measures which are imminent to prevent journalistic investigation of the Sarkozy menage, the reported threats to his son yesterday or the legal measures taken by his ex-wife to stop publication of revelations - it might be time to look at what Sarko is really doing behind all the fluffy lurve.

Yesterday he signed a deal for the first French military base in the Persian gulf. His visit to the region co-inciding with that of GW Bush's tour. "............France and the United Arab Emirates signed deals during a visit by French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday for Paris to set up a military base in the UAE and help it develop civilian nuclear energy. A defence agreement inked during the visit to Abu Dhabi calls for 400 to 500 French army, navy and air force personnel to be stationed at the base, said vice admiral Jacques Mazars, who negotiated the deal for France. "The base will be permanent. It will be the first such French base in the Gulf and it will face the Strait of Hormuz," the strategic waterway through which much of the world's oil supplies pass, a French presidential source said. Edouard Guillaud, a military aide of Sarkozy, said the military facility will be established in Abu Dhabi, the wealthiest and largest of the UAE's seven emirates, and become operational in 2009........." http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jJL1uuD04yQ7bg3LRh7...5hEzw http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/01/15/afx4....html

Sarko thus not only becomes a military expansionist president, (the first in France's post war history) he is also quickly becoming the Nuke president. His support for French nuclear power contractors showing financial opportunities & possible ecological or geo-political security problems in the Gulf just when Brown's government of the UK has given him a green light to redevelop the nuclear power industry in Britian.

this week's 2 most unpopular catholics in Europe. 1 does Latin the other does Nukes.