Pro Choice Action

by 80/20 Wed Mar 07, 2007 00:39

A sentence like this might be more effective if it was written in English. "For example they claimed that one such potential side was that women are more liking to abuse future children if they have an abortion."|

Guessing at its meaning -that this advice clinic is telling people that there is evidence that those who have had abortions are more likely to abuse children in the future- then it should be noted that if this is a completely unsubstantiated claim it is reckless and juvenile to post it here.

If it can be substantiated then it should be, and serious measures should be taken against the clinic concerned.

by me Wed Mar 07, 2007 06:39

It's not an unsubstanciated claim, it has been thoroughly researched.
What's juvenile is picking out one typo and basing your opinion of an event on it.

by tactics Wed Mar 07, 2007 08:19

Is there such a lack of self belief in the pro-choice arguement that there is the need to use Bush propeganda language ? Remember the use of the term "rouge states" . It was depressing to hear the Labour Party member Ivana Besik also using this neo-con term. If people have a problem with abortion they are entitled to it and to pass on their concerns to others and they most certainly are not "rouge" anything.

by C Murray Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:28

I would like to know how the State cannot be aware that this type of agency is operating?
There are rules in counselling.
Check them out.

-The counsellor is not allowed to direct a client.
-Counsellors must be accredited professionally.

If the spirit of the 'X' judgement had been adhered to, then there would be limited
abortion in safe surroundings for women in danger of suicide/death/ or being forced
to carry on with a pregnancy and birth in the event of death in utero of the foetus.

It is a further example of the record of the state in relation to an absolute refusal
to confront with any maturity the issues around the 'X ' case.

Abortions- both therapeutic/medical and in the case of suicide must be provided
freely, safely and legally within the health care system of ths country.

If the health care system is privatised, these practices will continue to
injure vulnerable women and girls. The issue of regulation needs addressing.

by Rebecca Wed Mar 07, 2007 13:11

First of all your claim that therapeutic abortions should be available in this country needs to be questioned. Please give me an instance of when abortion has ever been therapeutic. Secondly abortion has many many side and after effects which women must be informed of if they are considering aborion. So called non directive agencies in this country do not give women all the info they should know before going for an abortion. Another thing there is absolutely no regulation on counselling of any kind in this country, few counsellors actually have a third level qualification, including "counsellors" in high profile pro choice agencies. So technically, these are "rogue" agencies too. These "counsellors" who are openly pro choice, are directing women towards abortion, yet they do not help them to make an informed choice. Women in crisis pregnancies need real advice and a real solution to their problems.
Please note the hypocracy of the plan to picket this agency. The pro choice movement if it is to be consistent, needs to act against every agency which does not give all the info on abortion.

Another thing, if abortion were to be made so called "safe and legal" in just some cases here in Ireland, it would become wholesale. Its the thin end of the wedge. Take the US and Russia for example. In both these countries abortion was brought in for similar reasons. Since Roe V Wade in 1973 there have been over 50 million abortions, this generation has lost a third of its young people to abortion. In Russia, The population has dropped dramatically. Half of all pregnancies there end in abortion. Each year the birth rate is cut in half.

Plus the fact that recently we saw a tiny baby born at 21 weeks no bigger than the size of a pen and survived!
Does this not make you question the morality of abortion? We are seeing the viability age of the unborn child decrease continually with improved neo natal medical care. We must continually question our stance on issues as grave as this one.

by Emma Wed Mar 07, 2007 13:35

I've always been on the 'pro choice' side of the abortion debate. Now at 32 i'm 20 weeks pregnant. Last week I had a routine scan to check the fetus and came home from the hospital with an amazing 3D video of my baby looking very real and alive AT ONLY 19 WEEKS PREGNANT. In an hour my bump went from it/fetus to baby in my mind. I don't think I'd have the heart to protest outside of that 'rogue' clinic place. Maybe they know something I haven't known until recently!!!

by C Murray Wed Mar 07, 2007 13:42

there is a shop on Molesworth Street called The Government Publications shop.
Within it you will find a report, indeed a set of reports on abortion that define the
issues relating to therapeutic abortions in ireland.
They are the result of long and exhaustive consultation on the issues of :

Death in utero- you may like to access the Deirdre De Barra case.
Genetic isolation of foetal anomaly. (and diagnosis)
Suicide.
cancer.

You may also like to speak to the families and survivors of these issues
who are numerous and organised into lobby groups, or the social workers
and doctors who deal on daily basis with the breakdown of family in grief
situations who have not been provided with the necessary information and
support.

The professional counsellors association have an ethos of not directing
or isolating a patient/client but allowing them to speak their grief and or
problem.

As to the emotive issue of the baby who survived at 21 weeks, when a baby
does not survive at 21 weeks the medical termnology for the miscarriage
is a medical abortion.

we can also examine the issue of pregnancy, breast-feeding, abortion, trauma
and shock in war- and how many countries who support a pro-life agenda
also support aggressive war and destruction in other countries. including
Ireland.

by H - Pro-choice Wed Mar 07, 2007 14:20

I think things haven't been explained very clearly- this is not a debate about pro-choice versus anti-choice, we are picketing the agency because it is a rogue agency. This is the term for an agency that poses itself as pro-choice, but is really pro-life/anti-choice.

The reason for the protest is that this agency poses in the phone book under two names: 'British Alternatives Pregnancy Service' and 'A Choice for Women'. When you ring for an appointment, and state that you are planning to have an abortion, they go along with this, and tell you they will give you all the information you need. The major problem is that you would deliberately choose this agency because you think you are choosing a pro-choice agency, an agency that will give you all of your options. The agency does not offer you all of your options, as it says it will. It pushes an anti-choice agenda on women who are in an extremely vulnerable position.

If I were to choose a clinic such as 'Life', I would know that they don't offer the option of information on abortion. They are very upfront about this. What defines a rogue agency is that it pretends to be pro-choice, lures people in, and then emotionally traumatises them with medically incorrect information and emotional blackmail.

This agency gives out medical information that is incorrect. Upon going to your appointment, you will be told that it is impossible to have an abortion before two months into the pregnancy (Lie: this is told to delay the abortion for as long as possible- particularly because after two months you must have a surgical abortion, instead of a medical abortion (involving pills), and this would be a lot more traumatic for women). You will be told that your chances of developing breast cancer after an abortion will be QUADRUPLED (Lie). You will be told that you will be depressed, which will open up your family genetically (!) to depression (Lie). You will be told that this is your only chance to ever have a child (Lie).

You will then be sent to get a hospital appointment for an ultrasound. This is a delaying tactic, as an appointment won't be available for at least a fortnight, and costs 120 Euro. This is completely unnecessary- if you were to have an abortion, the ultrasound is carried out in the clinic just before you have it.

I think that women going to have an abortion should definitely be aware of all the risks involved. What I object to is false medical information being given out, especially to a group of such vulnerable people. This needs to be regulated.

We are holding a protest to object to the false medical information this agency gives out, and to the false premise that it advertises as a pro-choice clinic, when it is anti-choice. This is unacceptable deception, and it need to be highlighted, with action taken against such rogue agencies.