French debate on Left candidate: same story in Ireland

by John Meehan Wed Jun 06, 2007 22:44

This follow-up article on the election of Nicolas Sarkozy as President of France is here :

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?page=print_a...=1276

by John Meehan Tue May 08, 2007 00:47

At this link :

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?page=print_a...=1261

by John Meehan Mon Apr 30, 2007 21:49

Two pieces from Daniel Bensaid of the LCR - one an interview :

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?page=print_a...=1254

by John Meehan Sun Apr 29, 2007 23:48

Murray Smith has written an interesting article :

http://socialistunity.blogspot.com/2007/04/radical-left....html

by D_D Thu Apr 26, 2007 22:09

There is no point continuing to argue with an anonymous correspondent who keeps changing his/her pseudonym, who presumes bad faith on our part, who pounces on minor textual errors, who is impervious to factual points and who cannot be reasoned with. I resign from this correspondence.

Des Derwin.

by Will Thu Apr 26, 2007 17:23

But it's not really just a statement. It's a press release announcing Joans candidature for the forthcoming election. It doesn't mention the CIL, it's selective in which candidates it advocates support for and gives blanket approval to the PBPA. I'd say the press release does exactly what it says on the tin and announces a formal alliance that Joan is in. Either that or the press officer needs sacking for writing a press release extemporaneously.
BTW, you say there are five candidates now for the PBPA, one more than you said last month and who knows how many short of the final figure. I'm sure there will be a couple more before election day.

by D_D - CIL Thu Apr 26, 2007 13:40

Eamonn,

I said that JC's statement was inadvertently short. I.e 'Fair cop, guv!'.

The other statements have a fuller list of anti-coalition candidates. The first statement you quote is one of these, and not the JC statement with the 'omissions'.

Socialist,

1) standing in elections is only a part of building a new workers' party, 2) the ISN are standing a candidate in the election and 3) the Socialist Party are standing four candidates and investing an all-out effort into what they see as a major part of their strategy for building. There IS a general election in May.

by Acro Nym Thu Apr 26, 2007 13:05

Not only that, the 'election launch press release' doesn't even mention the CIL.
I suppose with the CWAG, CIL, PBPA, ILA etc, it might be hard for them to keep up with who Joan is actually running for.

by eamonn Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:45

DD wrote that the JC statement said;

The Campaign for an Independent Left has two very strong candidates: Seamus Healy TD in Tipperary South and Cllr Joan Collins in Dublin South Central. As committed socialists they oppose coalition with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael; and they will take a stand against the war in Iraq. Seamus Healy has extensive support in South Tipp; and knowing that there are about 6000 left / anti bin-tax votes in South Central, we are confident that both can be elected.

We are calling for a No.1 vote for Joan Collins and No.2 Brid Smith in South Central.

There will be four People Before Profit Alliance and one Irish Socialist Network candidate in the Dublin area. Catherine Connolly will be standing as an independent in Galway. Joe Higgins TD and three other candidates are standing for the Socialist Party.

But the statement released by .
Brendan Young (PRO) says;

Calling on ordinary people to support anti-coalition candidates, Collins says:

“Its time for a real alternative that will fight for the needs of ordinary people. That’s why I am standing as a socialist independent and why I refuse to make any coalition deals. I’m asking for a number 1 vote and a number 2 for Brid Smith, who is also standing in South Central. It is with anti-coalition candidates like Seamus Healy, Catherine Connolly, Brid Smith and the People Before Profit Alliance that a real alternative will be put forward.”

The second BY release omits any mention of the SP!

by socialist Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:42

It's now clear why the ISN pulled out of the Campaign for an Independent Left (CIL) coz it seems to have turned completely electoralist. Check out the strategy implicit in the following CIL statement from Joan Collin's website"

The Campaign for an Independent Left regrets that the attempts to form an independent left alliance have failed to produce, in our opinion, sufficient candidates to make a serious impact in the forthcoming general election.

We have made, along with others, a serious effort to develop such an alliance over the past year. What we mean by an independent alliance is to bring together, initially on a fairly loose basis, left candidates who take a principled position of no support, either in government or from outside, for Fianna Fail, Fine Gael or the PDs, but commit themselves to working to build a real alternative for working people.

Early last summer we met with the Socialist Party to discuss these issues. Unfortunately, the SP have, in our opinion. no interest in working with others on the left. We agree with the SP that there is not a conscious movement by any section of workers towards the idea of a new party. There is a low level of class struggle, especially in the trade unions and in the workplace. But even in a more favourable circumstances of heightened class struggle, building a new party will be a process, with initial steps - and inevitably small beginnings.

This however, is only one side of the situation. Over the last fifteen years, there has been the emergence of a working class or anti Fianna Fail, Fine Gael or PD vote. We believe this indicates a desire for a political alternative; and a class consciousness that endures, despite the setbacks and the boom. This consciousness is expressed in the anger at the huge inequality and relative poverty in what is claimed to be one of the richest countries in the world; and in anger about unaffordable housing, the two tier health care system, lack of funding in education, childcare, public transport and developer and speculator led planning.

"A genuine left alternative could mobilise mass working class support with a radical programme of change in these areas, amongst others. If the SP, through the authority gained by Joe Higgins were to take part in an initiative along the lines we proposed, it would now be possible to go into the general election with a left alternative group of candidates capable of winning four or five seats in the Dail.

Around such a focal point in the Dail, we could seek to build working class campaign groups in all the main cities and bigger towns. The local elections could be targeted to win council seats well into double figures. A serious campaign could be run to get someone like Joe Higgins elected to a Euro seat in Dublin. In other words, the work could be begun, to build a small but significant working class party over a period of years. "

Build through electionalism? Uh huh.

by D_D - CIL Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:25

Those who have been asking, 'well, what happened to the election alliance?' might be interested in the 'Indepependent Left' No 4 page on Joan's site, in particular the second item, the CIL statement on the general election.

by D_D - CIL Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:00

The anti-coalition 'list' in Joan's launch statement is inadvertently short. Joan was speaking ex tempore.

If you read through to the CIL statement submitted to The Village, adapted from a piece in our current bulletin ('Independent Left') you will find the following:

"So for those who want a genuine alternative to Tweedledum and Tweedledee, voting and campaigning for the anti-coalition left is a way forward.

The Campaign for an Independent Left has two very strong candidates: Seamus Healy TD in Tipperary South and Cllr Joan Collins in Dublin South Central. As committed socialists they oppose coalition with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael; and they will take a stand against the war in Iraq. Seamus Healy has extensive support in South Tipp; and knowing that there are about 6000 left / anti bin-tax votes in South Central, we are confident that both can be elected.

We are calling for a No.1 vote for Joan Collins and No.2 Brid Smith in South Central.

There will be four People Before Profit Alliance and one Irish Socialist Network candidate in the Dublin area. Catherine Connolly will be standing as an independent in Galway. Joe Higgins TD and three other candidates are standing for the Socialist Party.

We urge support and votes for all these anti-coalition candidates – the start of a real alternative to Fianna Fail."

Regrets for any misunderstanding caused. (And actually there are five PBPA candidates)

by socialist Wed Apr 25, 2007 23:49

Interesting the anti-coalition candidates named and the unconditional endorsement of all PBPA candidates.
Even more interesting the anti-coalition candidates not named. You'd wonder why Joan didn't join the PBPA.

by John Meehan - Campaign for an Independent Left Wed Apr 25, 2007 22:39

The site is here :

http://www.joancollins.ie/index.html

by John Meehan Mon Apr 23, 2007 23:22

Olivier Besancenot's statement is at this link :

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?page=print_a...=1252

by iosaf Sun Apr 22, 2007 22:11

Political updates :
all small left candidates have asked their voters to vote for Royal in the 2nd round. This was what was expected - you could also be pretty confident of giving Royal half of Bayrou's "3rd way vote". For his part le Pen has not made any decision on who he wants his 11% to vote for next time nor has the marginal 1.3% Fred Nihous. But lePen's well aware that Sarkozy's win today has come with the lowest vote or endorsement for the FN since the early 1970's. Sarkozy has picked up north Corsica despite his avowed opposition to Royal's plans for more devolution which would include the Corse. Whereas Bayrou picked up his home constituency which by the way is where the French Basque is located.
In short no-one would deny that the Left mobilised a vote - and between their candidates have equalled the vote for le Pen. It's now really a question of who the Bayrou voters will vote for second time out - and whether Sarkozy's very fine lead will hold - he can't be too sure it will, his results today were short of his target and reflect a downward trend of the last two weeks. Though all candidates squawked at the record participation (it makes them feel really good about themselves) such a participation has not brought Sarkozy to outright majority (the nightmare) or a Sarkozy v. Bayrou or Sarkozy v. lePen (very disturbed sleep and night sweats).

a 33 year old socialist activist of the very old school Trot variety has got over 4% of the vote. Over 1.5 million people chose his recipe of Che quotes and protest. I think that's a lesson for everyone.

by John Meehan Sun Apr 22, 2007 21:36

Detailed results are here :

http://www.lexpress.fr/info/france/elysee_2007/elys07_r...r.asp

it's addictive!

by John Meehan Sun Apr 22, 2007 21:14

Details Here :

http://www.marxsite.com/Firstresults.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_presidential_electi..._2007

by John Meehan Fri Apr 20, 2007 23:47

Story at this link :
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?page=print_a...=1250

by D_D Sat Apr 14, 2007 20:40

The French 'unity candidature' was to include the possibilty of coalition with the (onetime governing) Socialist Party.

The Irish slate was to exclude coaliton with conservative parties.

In Ireland the radical left opposes the support of social democracy (Labour, etc.) for conservatism or neo-liberalism (putting Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael into power), the support of the centre-left for the right. In France the - majority of - the far left opposes a coalition or parliamentary bloc of the revolutionary and anti-liberal left with the centre-left, “subordination to social democracy (and/or social-liberalism)” [Francois Duval, cf. the article linked to in the original report above].

by Sue Dunom Sat Apr 14, 2007 19:03

Same story in Ireland.
Interesting that John posts a story that rightfully shows up the stupidity of the SWP who are a platform of a left political party in France yet were trying to build 'left unity' around Bove.
It could be worse I suppose, imagine trying to build left unity around Declan Bree, Caterine Connolly and the WP.

by John Meehan Fri Apr 13, 2007 23:58

See stories at these links :

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,47688....html

http://www.marxsite.com/SWP-Besancenot.html

by Dub Sun Mar 04, 2007 23:37

"If either Seat were lost however, there would be little to show out of having a TD for 10 years or more. "

With language like that you're not doing your best for left-unity. I think Water charges, bin tax battle, GAMA workers, strong opposition to FF/PD government on a day-today basis in the Dáil, and much much more is not 'little to show'. I also think you characterise the SP position. I've been to a few SP public meetings and they have mentioned the need for new workers parties. I remember a while ago Joe Higgins was in media for calling for building a new party at his Party Conference. I read through Brendan's commentry. Lot of it I agree with. Social Democrats should be exposed and debated with. But Brendan under-estimates where many working class people are at politically. While there won't be a revolution tomorrow or anything! there is a significant minority drawing anti-establishment and anti-capitalist conclusions and are open to socialism. That's why it is important for people like Joan/CIL, ISN, SP & SWP to promote their socialism as an alternative.

by another dub Sun Mar 04, 2007 23:07

See Gerry Adams has joined Trevor Sargent and Pat Rabbit in the race to enter Goverment.

by CWAG - Community & Workers Action Group Thu Mar 01, 2007 22:39

To answer the questions raised by Dub regarding Joan Collins, coalition,Gregory deals etc. the following quotes are taken directly from Joan's pre election leaflet which has recently being distributed to over 20,000 homes in Dublin South Central.

“ Joan will be standing as an independent ,socialist candidate for the Dublin South Central Constituency in this years general election. Joan says “I believe the only way real change can come about is when ordinary working people get organised and demand and fight for it. Empty promises from politicians are useless. We need elected representatives that will use their position to help people get organised and then stand by them in the fight for real change”

“ Joan Collins is standing in this election as an independent socialist candidate. Since her election to the Council, Joan has helped set up Community and Workers Action Group. We have branches that meet monthly in Drimnagh and Crumlin and are involved in a wide range of campaigning on community issues and workers rights. We initiated the campaign that forced Dunnes stores to re-employ a young shop steward they had sacked for wearing a union badge. We need to build a real alternative to Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and the PDs. If elected Joan Collins will not vote for either Aherne/Mc Dowell or Kenny/Rabbitte because there is no difference between them. She will work with other socialists and like minded independents to build a real opposition ,both in the Dail and outside it”

The leaflet also carries articles on the Economy, Health Cisies, Bin Tax, Affordable and Social Housing, Developers Greed, and the threatened closure of Crumlin Children's Hospital.

Also highlighted in the leaflet is the following statement

“Joan Collins is pleased to be contesting this election alongside Brid Smith, who is standing as a People Before Profit Alliance candidate. Brid, a well know community and Trade Union activist,is the Anti Bin Tax campaign organiser in Ballyfermot / Bluebell and Inchicore. Use your vote to the maximum effect. Vote No 1 for Joan Collins and No 2 Brid Smith”

We hope that the above direct quotes answers the questions raised.

Any body interested in helping in Joans election campaign can contact her @ 086 3888 151 or e-mail dermotjoan@utvinternet.com

by D_D Thu Mar 01, 2007 22:02

Mark P draws attention to a real distinction between the coalition debates in France and Ireland, a distinction that is subdued in Brendan’s comparison of the two (February 25th). However, while the distinction is real it is now a FORMAL distinction and Mark P himself points to the essential similarity of the choices in both cases when he says, “A more analogous question would be whether or not the socialist left in Ireland should be looking towards parties like Labour, Sinn Fein and the Greens… the socialist left should have no illusions in the "left" character of such parties and should not be looking to ally with them”.

In Ireland the demand of radical socialists is that parties of the left (the Labour Party, Sinn Fein, etc.) and left Independents stay out of a coalition government with right-wing conservative parties. In France the demand (on one side of the debate anyway) is that the parties of the left should stay out of coalition not only with unambiguously conservative parties but also with the Socialist Party. [The Socialist Party in France is of course the equivalent of the British New Labour Party and has no connection with the Socialist Party in Ireland or it’s parent in England and Wales].

The demand ITSELF, in Ireland, that the Labour Party, and other nominally left forces, should stay out of coalition, put forward by the radical left as a minimum indicator/test of the principle of a party, implies that an independent Labour Party that shunned coalition, would be supportable. And that a coalition of the Labour Party and other left forces might be acceptable for support. Indeed such an alternative coalition (Labour, Sinn Féin, Greens, Socialist Party, left Independents) is put forward in varying strengths within the anti-coalition left. It is propounded by Michael O’Reilly of the ATGWU (and is ATGWU policy) and even, on occasion, by Seamus Healy of CIL (though Seamus is out in front for a new left, to the left of Labour, with no intention of waiting for Billy Bunter to give up the sweets.).

In Ireland the radical left opposes the support of social democracy (Labour, etc.) for conservatism or neo-liberalism (putting Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael into power), the support of the centre-left for the right. In France the - majority of - the far left opposes a coalition or parliamentary bloc of the revolutionary and anti-liberal left with the centre-left, “subordination to social democracy (and/or social-liberalism)” [Francois Duval, cf. the article linked to in the original report above].

ESSENTIALLY this is the same question, as Mark P recognises (“A more analogous question…etc). But in France, and throughout most of Western Europe, social democracy has been THE government and has ACTED there in line with the route already taken (indeed pioneered) by the perennially minority Irish Labour Party. Social democracy has become social liberalism: privatisation, deregulation, market supremacy, war, etc.

In Ireland the French debate is reflected in the difference within the anti-coalition left between those who hold out for a Labour-led coalition and those who break from Labour now to seek a new alternative anti-coalition left. Both sides of the anti-coalition left can combine behind the single call for no coalition with the (traditional) right because things have not developed in Ireland as far as (or in the same way as) elsewhere in Europe.

Here the call for no coalition with the right is really a call against social liberalism too because the Labour Party (and others) would HAVE TO CHANGE ITS NATURE to actually break from the coalition option (which is the equivalent for Irish social democracy and reformism of the option of power and the administration of the system in France, Britain, Germany, Spain, etc.). A Labour-led left coalition (in Ireland) will never be possible because Labour has no interest in or capacity for it. The call in Ireland for no coalition with the right is effectively and essentially the same as the call in France for no coalition with the centre-left IN POWER and for the construction, in Ireland and in France, of a new alternative to the left AND OUTSIDE of the Labour Party.

by Brendan Young Thu Mar 01, 2007 21:40 youngbren at eircom dot net

I think that a discussion with people who are unwilling to say who they are is of limited value. But anybody who wishes to participate in or support Joan Collins’ campaign can contact her on 086 388 8151. And please, leave the red-baiting to our opponents.

That said, I will clarify a number of points. Joan is steadfastly anti-coalition. She is against doing any type of Gregory deal. But as far as I am aware she is and would be willing to work with Tony and other leftwing Independents on specific issues. That is also my own position.

Joan and the CIL are willing to co-operate with serious anti-coalition left-wing candidates in the coming election. We favour a slate of such candidates, if that can be agreed.

As to the more general points, I will briefly explain my positions. I would also say that while I think there would be agreement within the CIL on much of what follows, these are my views and this is not a document of the CIL.

The key issue regarding a ‘unity’ candidate in France is this: neither the French CP nor Jose Bove will give a clear commitment not to support / participate in a Socialist Party (PSF) government – which will be a Blairite government. Thus the LCR will not support their candidatures and is standing its own candidate, Olivier Besancenot (there are other issues as well – but this is the deal-breaker).

So in France the question is whether the socialist and anti-neoliberal left should support a PSF government. And here there are two related questions: should the socialist and anti-neoliberal left support a government of the Right (FF/FG/PDs) – ie, do a Gregory deal; and should the parties of the left (broadly defined!) participate in a government of the Right – coalition with FF/FG/PDs? Coalitionism with parties of the Right, versus the building of a genuine anti-neoliberal alternative, is the question in both cases.

In France the social-liberal PSF may form the next government, possibly with the support of the Communist Party (PCF) – as in the past (with disastrous consequences for the left). In Ireland the parties with a social-democratic politics - the Labour Party, Sinn Fein, the Greens and some Independents (although the Labour and Green leaderships are becoming increasingly social-liberal: favouring some state provision of services and infrastructure, but increasingly pro-market and accepting of neoliberalism) are not in a position to take power alone. Rather they must go into coalition with the Right to get into government.

The Labour Party, Sinn Fein, the Greens and the Independents account for up to 35% of the popular vote. Analysis of the transfer patterns of these voters indicates that up to 30% of the popular vote is a ‘left’ vote. By ‘left’ I mean social-democratic - in the sense that they want access to decent health and education services, publicly provided; they also want state provision of social housing, decent public transport, care of the elderly, environmental protection and unemployment benefit; and they are not keen on privileges for the wealthy, nor Irish support for the war in Iraq.

But these people are not revolutionary socialists. By this I mean that the vast majority of left voters and supporters of these parties (including SP voters) do not see the need to end the system of private ownership and the profit motive (capitalism) to get such services. They want a more benign capitalism, not its overthrow. And they regard the existing state as a means to ameliorate the excesses of capitalism, and provide for the social needs of the many.

Most ‘left’ (social-democratic) voters and activists see no alternative other than to vote for the parties that are willing to take power in the existing state – and that claim to represent the interests of ordinary people and propose some social reforms (LP/SF/Greens). And they are right: there is no state-wide alternative. The representatives and full-time staff of these parties have a different view however: they have careers to look after and have an interest in maintaining the status-quo.

The majority of socialists however, would regard the existing state as the defender of capitalism; and would wish to see it overthrown in order to bring a socially just and environmentally sustainable economic and social system into existence. We also want all of the services etc. the social-democrats want – it’s just that we don’t think they are available in a capitalist society. We see war as an integral part of the capitalist system: the use of military force to ensure domination of peoples and control of resources by the dominant imperialist states.

We also think there is a fundamental conflict of interest between the working class and the capitalist class – capitalist profits come from the exploitation of workers – and there can be no common ground between them. Social-democrats do not hold this view – thus the support by social-democratic leaders and others for (social) partnership between the bosses organisations and the workers movement (unions).

But unless we are to just talk to ourselves, socialists must relate to and work with sincere social-democrats. As well as genuine participation in campaigns, this means publicly engaging in debate with representatives and supporters of the LP/SF/Greens and explaining that the issues they want to see resolved cannot be achieved by support for / coalition with FF/FG/PDs (not to mention the DUP) – which prioritise the needs of big business/big farmers/multinational capital/the international politics of the big capitalist states. Part of such a debate includes saying that the parties which promise social reforms (LP/SF/Greens) should not go into coalition with the Right: serious reforms cannot come from these coalitions – they are undermined by the general right-wing thrust of the government and they come at the price of supporting the other right-wing policies of the majority party. And the gains from coalition deals can usually be obtained by serious campaigning, at local and national level.

Socialists have every right to stand their own candidates. And we should also expose betrayals and capitulations by social-democratic leaders. But self-righteous denunciations will not win supporters of the LP/SF/Greens away from coalitionist politics. Rather we should expose the fallacy of coalitionism around concrete issues.

So I am not saying that the socialist left should ally with social-democratic parties. Rather we should demand – in front of their members and voters – that they deliver on their promises, which cannot be done in coalition with the Right.

We should however, demand and be willing to participate in genuine united-fronts that advance the interests of working people and the oppressed. Recent examples of this were the alliance between socialists, the women’s movement, the LP and SF on the abortion referendum; and between socialists and SF in opposition to the EU Constitution.

This brings us to the question of alternatives to social-democratic parties. If we say to genuine social-democrats that they should break from parties that are willing to go into office with the Right, what alternative can we offer? At present there is no serious alternative.

The CIL is of the view that a new party of working people is necessary – the existing social-democratic parties accept the fundamentals of the status quo and cannot be reformed. My view is that the political starting point for a new workers’ party is that it should take the side of working people and the oppressed in any conflict with the bosses or the state. How this is done would have to be discussed and agreed, as part of a process rather than an a-priori set of assumptions. A program of more detailed policies can be built up over time – the Scottish Socialist Party is a good example of how this has been done. Such a party would involve the existing socialist left if it is willing to participate in a democratic fashion. But it must also include some of the existing supporters of the LP/SF/Greens and Independents – otherwise it will be marginal. Serious joint work between anti-coalition candidates – who come not only from the existing socialist left – would be a step in the right direction.

But this begs the question: what about the approach of the existing socialist left? The SP is unwilling to work for a new party ‘at present’; and it is reluctant to enter into co-operation with other anti-coalition candidates in the coming election. Joe Higgins is an exemplary socialist TD. And Clare Daly, if elected, will also be excellent. If either Seat were lost however, there would be little to show out of having a TD for 10 years or more. The SWP is more flexible in this matter; and while not in favour of a new party, is seeking to include a variety of campaigns in the PBPA. But many activists are wary of the methods of the SWP.

A noteworthy contrast to the methods of the socialist left in Ireland is the French LCR. Within the LCR a minority is allowed to organise around its position of support for a ‘unity’ candidate in the forthcoming presidential elections (against the position of the majority); and this minority has been able to present its position publicly in Rouge, the paper of the LCR. This method – tolerance of tactical and sometimes strategic differences – underpins the LCR’s ability to work in mass campaigns and build political trust.

So far the SP is not willing to participate in discussions about an anti-coalition slate. The SWP is in favour of such a slate. But neither the SP nor the SWP are accustomed to working with or as minorities in a non-factional way inside a political organisation where they are not the dominant current.

Does this matter? I would say yes. The ‘we-are-the-alternative’ approach of the SP weakens the opposition to the Right, to coalitionism with the Right, and is ultimately self-defeating. More generally, if an anti-coalition slate is put together prior to the coming election, its ability to involve those outside the existing socialist left will be influenced by the way it functions. Democratic functioning and accountability will be paramount. And should some of the candidates be elected, the same will apply after this election; and from there into the local elections in the coming years. There is a lot to play for.

by Dub Thu Mar 01, 2007 15:45

Tracey, some would say that about Joan herself! In seriousness, why are you trying to sneer Joan with red-scare terms like 'trot'. What is wrong with any person lending support to a left wing candidate? It's not as if she's getting big corporate donations! I would imagine that Brendan will be giving active support to Joan, Joe Higgins, Clare Daly, etc. as he want to build the movement. stop trying to slur him and others.

Also, any answer to my questions above?

by Tracy from Ballyer Tue Feb 27, 2007 09:51

joan's a good woman who makes a tangible difference in the working class community she was elected to represent. with this in mind i question the wisdom of aligning herself with elderly trots who have no record of community activism. surely this will do her election campaign more harm than good?

by Séamus Tue Feb 27, 2007 01:21

I would disagree that there is only a hunger for power within Sinn Féin. There is a relatively strong trend within the party that is opposed to coalition with the Right, as was seen as last year's Ard Fheis. It will be interesting to see what happens at their Ard Fheis this year, with the general elections just a few months away.

by Dub Mon Feb 26, 2007 16:49

Brendan asks questions but doesn't seem to give many answers. I think he mis-analyses Frnace and Ireland. In Ireland there are not people in Labour, SF and Greens that reject coalitionism. In Labour there are about 5% of membership that are opposed to coalitions with the Right, overall they are happy with Rabbitte's policy. In Greens and SF there is only hunger for power. They don't see the world through Left-Right divides. Brendan, interesting to hear about Joan's campaign. I think she is a decent left candidate. Does she have a clear policy on coalition and/or doing deals with Government? Would Joan do a deal Gregory style if she held balance of power in next Dáil? Will Campaign for Independent Left be working with other candidates from SWP/Pb4P, ISN, SP?

by Mark P - Socialist Party (personal capacity) Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:11

Brendan tells us above that: In France the question is: should a united-left (anti-neoliberal) candidate support or be part of a government led by the Socialist Party (which will be a social-liberal or Blairite government)? In Ireland the question is similar: should the non-right-wing parties (Labour, Greens, Sinn Fein) be part of a government of the Right (FF, FG, PDs)? And should Independent TDs support a government of the Right?.

This seems to me to be missing the central point.

The French socialist left, that is principally Lutte Ouvriere and the Ligue Communiste Revolutionaire, are opposed not just to allying with the traditional parties of the right, but with the Partie Socialiste. Yet strangely the question Brendan derives from this in Ireland is about whether the Labour Party, the Irish equivalent of the Partie Socialiste, should ally with Fianna Fail and Fine Gael. A more analogous question would be whether or not the socialist left in Ireland should be looking towards parties like Labour, Sinn Fein and the Greens. And while I have many political disagreements with LO and the LCR, on this question at least they are broadly speaking correct: the socialist left should have no illusions in the "left" character of such parties and should not be looking to ally with them.