Buddhists for Peace

by Ron Mon Jul 30, 2007 13:18

I think you will find that agreement means agreement. Why don´t you ask them?
Only seven people currently involved with the Dublin Centre have been on the four month retreat.
Neither of them were married, nor are they Christians.
Sometimes people with different beliefs believe different things.

by Eve Sun Jul 29, 2007 21:59

For the record, I do not have concerns as a parent so please do not implicate me in above if you are referring to the FWBO where there actually can be four month Ordination retreats. From my experience, these are always based on joint discussion and consent if there are children involved. Everyone's experience is different and some families have parents who work away for long periods of time. It's all about adjustment and understanding and you cannnot assume there is 'dysfunction'. For instance, my little girl is fine and her Dad is a practising Buddhist and she has grown up with that. The end of your piece is particularly scary. No thanks.
Sincerely,
Eve

by Mike Garde - Director of Dialogue Ireland Sun Jul 29, 2007 19:58 info at dialogueireland dot org

I was interested in Vajrashura's comments about the Gerry Ryan programme as I often contribute cult related stories to it. What is remarkable is that no group was mentioned and within minutes I received a request for help from a woman whose husband is totally under the influence of the Jesus Christians, a fundamentalist group that suggests that the family and marriage can be abandoned for this group. In other words the issues associated with family, young children being unable to cope with long breaks. Four months for a child is like four centuries. Also the notion of consent. "My partner agrees." What does agree mean in this context? The confusion between a person pursuing a vocation of a family and and the same time living as if single. The total confusion this produces in the partner and the child is just unimaginable. Ron says this only takes place once in a life time, that is not the issue, but the internal contradiction for the man when he returns and for those who are left with a pattern of unbalanced parenthood is hard to believe especially for one who accepts a feminist view of reality. It must lead to relationship melt down.

However, I later got emails asking me as I made a contribution to the programme whether the FWBO were involved and Rigpa? In other words the programme addressed certain cultist traits which can be found in any group. If the cap fits!
Why did I get requests to ask me whether the Jesus Christians, FWBO or Rigpa were involved unless those who heard the programme recognised the presence of the traits in their own group?

Rather than trying to find out what group was being mentioned recognise that it happens in every group, GAA club, family, Fianna Fail, Sinn Fein/IRA FWBO1/FWBO2/WBO, Rigpa, Scientology, Catholicism, Protestantism- DUP. Don't rationalise, reflect on your emotions and how the cycle of addiction has taken you to resolve your problems by getting hooked on this or that star, system or meditation process.

The reality is you can't be in a relationship with a person and commit adultery by doing your own thing for 4 months. That is toxic Buddhism and if you wish to become a monk, repent for bringing a child into the world that you leave on a lotus leaf as you commit family suicide. I have great respect for monks and nuns who forsake all for the spirit. But someone who is in relationship with a person as St Paul says becomes one flesh with them. This is not a commodity and the child is not product.

Metanoia is needed before it is too late- See first the kingdom of heaven and all will be added to you.

by Laurence Cox - Dublin Buddhist Centre - affiliated Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:37 lcox at iol dot ie

Hi,

Strange to see so much comment on a post which is actually an events notice. The first article ("Before anyone goes to meditation for peace in Dublin Buddhist Centre") was written nearly a month *after* the event in question happened. I've only just been told of all these comments piling up in the months subsequently...

Anyway, for anyone who is reading this with an open mind, there are a range of links to general discussion on the FWBO available via the UK movement's main website at http://www.fwbo.org/fwbo/response.html and http://response.fwbo.org/, including responses to the Guardian article cited in the first post.

More general information on new religious movements is available via http://www.inform.ac/infmain.html, a UK-based organisation founded by Prof. Eileen Barker with the support of the British Home Office and the mainstream Christian churches. Their material is considerably more sober and less alarmist than much of what is said about "cults" on talk radio.

Laurence Cox

by Eve Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:20

This morning I received a phonecall from a guy who was previously involved with the FWBO directing me to this site. I am glad he did because I am a bit taken aback by some of the information submitted to this site . I now feel urged to submit my experience to what seems like an on-going discussion revolving around the FWBO in Ireland particularly when I feel that I am being implicated.
I was in a relationship with someone who went to Spain this year on the four month retreat. I felt sad and upset and all the emotions a person feels when a separation in about to happen but I certainly did not contact any media organisation to try to highlight any FWBO issues. I think the FWBO can be a source of support and friendship for many people. I also think that there are most definitely thorny issues from the past that do need to be dealt with which are seemingly causing concern to this day. I actually recognise some of what Vajrashura is saying about the radio interview because I went through the archives shortly afterwards to find the interview. I have a few guesses about where the information came from. From what I can gather, some of it seems to pertain to me and to concerns I have expressed privately and other parts of it certainly do not relate to me at all nor to my family.
In the past, I have received a couple of emails and phone calls from relatives of two people involved with the FWBO and these are people I would know to some degree. They both expressed some worry about the FWBO and we talked about it for a while and then the communication waned and that was it.
I have attended the Dublin Buddhist Centre on occasion and have also attended a retreat at Taraloka in England. I remain in positive email contact with Sanghaghivni who has been a wonderful support to me in the last four months and I deeply appreciate that. Karundhaka is also a good and sincere person with whom I have shared some private concerns. He also invited us to his wedding which was a beautiful day !
I don't know what else to say except I felt urged to write given what I've read.
Sincerely,
Eve

by Vajrashura Fri Jul 27, 2007 22:40

No worries J, glad to be of help.

Vajrashura.

by jay Fri Jul 27, 2007 08:49

Hi
Thanks for your honest reply-I was only asking because it seemed relevant. Thank you for your honest reply. I wish you well.

by Vajrashura Thu Jul 26, 2007 22:36

Hi Jay.

Not sure if you're asking me or someone else, but I'll assume that you're asking me. I have to say that I'm not crazy about such a personal question and the spirit in which I suspect you're asking it BUT......

Actually, I don't have a partner at the moment! I should have perhaps made this more clear in my above post but I have never been married, and have been pretty much single for over a year now. And for the record again - I was also single when I got into meditation and Buddhism, and since then none of my (not many!) romantic partners ever have seemed to have experienced or expressed any problems with my Buddhist practice or my involvement in the FWBO.

And this is why this radio interview is so interesting... So what's going on there then?

Much love,
Vajrashura.

by Ron Thu Jul 26, 2007 21:14

With a red faced apology for my lack of arithmetic, I need to correct my earlier post by saying that the Centre only teaches about 500 new people every year. It does not change the sense of my post as it still amounts to many thousands of people over the years. So I am sorry for making that mistake.

Incidentally, you only go on the four month ordination course once in your life, not every year,

by Ron Thu Jul 26, 2007 20:54

Oh its fine Jay, How is your relationship with yours?

by jay Thu Jul 26, 2007 20:21

How is your relationship with your partner?

by Vajrashura Thu Jul 26, 2007 16:58

Hi L.

To respond to your enquiry - I did listen to the interview on Gerry Ryan's show as I found it on the archives of the rte website (it's not there any more, as far as I know - I listened to it the day after it was broadcast). The interview was, according to Gerry Ryan, pre-recorded, her name was changed, and the voice was distorted.

The main claims made by the woman was her husband of many years who was based in Ireland with the Dublin centre was about to go off to get ordained in Spain for four months, and that his mother was 'beside herself with worry' and his family all thought that they were loosing him to the religion. The centre wasn't explicitely named, but from the details it was clear it was the FWBO.

This took place at the end of March 2007. In the last three/four years there has only been one person who headed off to Spain, and that was me. Nobody else is scheduled to head off for a similar retreat for the foreseeable future for Dublin and Ireland.

I headed off at the end of March, the day after the interview was broadcast, and have just returned in the last few days, so there is no-body else that the interview could be referring to other than me. Some of the details were quite accurate, for example: my father dying in the last year after a long illness, my age, etc.

For the record, the last time I checked I was not married, and so the woman could not have been my wife! Also while my mother wasn't exactly crazy about me being on retreat and out of contact with me for four months, she took it all quite within her stride. And my relationships with my siblings are very good at the moment, probably at the best they've been in many years.

So the question I'd like to pose is: who did this interview? Why did they lie about me on national radio? Why did she feel a need to give a false name and have her voice changed? Ultimately I'm unlikely to ever know the answers to this, and that's quite unfortunate. I have my suspicions about who is behind it and the particular person they're out to get but without any hard proof to get involved in mud-slinging is something I'm extremely unwilling to do.

But I would ask people to read whatever they read on the web with a grain of salt, or at least objectivity. I have been involved in the FWBO for many years and now am a member of the WBO and it's a difficult organisation to understand. And it's also very easy to slander people and organisations online without backing up what you're saying with hard evidence.

My experience of the (wider) internet is that I'm very wary of unsubstantiated websites and reports on people/organisations/etc. People have axes to grind, unfortunately, and will publish information online with no evidence to back them up. The report on the Dialogue Ireland website, for example, contains many quotes, repeated my times, which are completely unsubstantiated. Also many of them appear to be from the above mentioned radio show.

My own experience of the FWBO and the WBO is very positive. I've found it a very worthwhile place to practice on the whole, and I'm very happy with my situation there. It's flawed, of couse, but a quick search on the internet will reveal allegations about almost all Buddhist groups, to say nothing of other religions!

So a plea for some objectivity, some clarity about source material on the web, and above all some compassionate interest in dialogue!

Much love,
Vajrashura.

by Ron Thu Jul 26, 2007 16:37

OK, 'L' missed the beginning of the programme where RTE announced that they were using voice distortion and yes, the caller's main point was 'families' and no, no one's relative died in the Dublin Centre.

I think that families can sometimes be emotionally fraught environments even at the best of times. But when a man or woman developes a new involvement in, a religious Group, their spouse tends to blame that organisation for their fraught emotion.

Speak to any Marriage Guidance Counsellor and they will tell you the same thing.

Sadly, it can indeed be the case that he or she really does want to spend less time with his or her spouse. Can anything be done about this?

Most of us learn during our schooldays that when your best friend has somebody else in their life, it might be cousins visiting or perhaps they have a new sport or a new girlfriend/boyfriend, then they have less time for us. Look at the Maths. There are only so many hours in a day and as a consequence we simply see less of each other. Yes, that is painful. However we need to gradually accept it otherwise adulthood will not dawn.

That radio programme engendered only one letter of response. So where are all the other letters? That rogramme is the most listened to primetime radio show in the country.

Fwbo Ireland has been teaching five-week courses to over 2500 new people every year for more than 15 years. Why are we not hearing from these many thousands of wronged people?

From the start of the radio show they repeatedly advertised that that they were going to do an expose on a dangerous cult but they only got around to doing their worst in the last 10 minutes. By that time we can only speculate as to how many sensation seeking tale barers were tuned in to their radios nationwide.

This forum was opened fully four months ago by the reporting of that utterly fabricated phonecall to that radio show and in all these months this forum has engendered what seems to be only one genuine contribution from someone who was not even taught at the Dublin Centre and who lives in a foriegn country. It reported events from overseas and (perhaps understandably) speculated about what might or might not be the case in fwbo Ireland.

Why is it that a cynical hatchet job on RTE's primetime flagship presentation only engendered one response? Let's remember that even those who do not listen to that well known show still get to hear about it. I did.

As my Lawyer put it: The non-response to the radio piece totally vindicates the Dublin fwbo and comprehensively clears its name in a way that would be hard to imagine, by any other means.
Thanks to RTE, a truly vast proportion of the population have tacitly declared that there is no case for fwbo Ireland to answer.

by L Thu Jul 26, 2007 09:23

I came in on the tail end of the discussion on the radio. it was interesting. i tried to find the recording on archives but didn;t. if it is the same discussion you are referring to. there was not voice distortion. i don;t remember violence being the issue. it seemed to be about the girl's concerns about the fwbo although i don't think they named it. i thought it was the girl's brother she was referring to not her boyfriend. i tuned in to the same station the following morning and a letter had been sent in from a guy who had had what sounded like a terrible experience at the centre in dublin. i think he lost a family member during his time there. it sounded fairly rough.

by Moksananda Thu Jul 26, 2007 09:07

Amy,

Could you clarify for me exactly what you read when you say "I have just read Moksananda's discussion about Ordination and Guhyaloka (2006/2007). How he praises the abuser in it too ! Quite frightening - and sickening."

Thanks

by Ron Wed Jul 25, 2007 23:54

Yesterday I read the first post on this site above from March which says; "...family members of people involved in the Centre on Leeson St. (Dublin) have been on RTE radio a few times this week..."

This is completely untrue.
When you listen to the RTE archive for the week You will hear that
one (Irish) woman phoned the radio station once. She said she was the girlfriend of a man who had just gone off to get ordained. She was not. No one knows who she was.

She said she was using a false name and voice distortion for fear of violence. That seems deeply odd. Why all the fabrication? Just who was this person? And why the utter nonsense about fear of violence? This is her talking about her boyfriend's religious Group remember! Does that make sense to anyone? It is most certainly a Police matter. One would have thought that a new boyfriend was the answer and that, in the meantime, the Police should be called. I don't expect she will be getting in touch with this site. But then again, perhaps she already has been on this site somewhere above?

by Gambhiradaka Wed Jul 25, 2007 22:08

Hi. I am in Cambridge so maybe have no place on this site. I am one of these ordained people. I am engaged and my preceptor is very supportive of my relationship. I have many other ordained friends in relationships and families in fact there have been a number of very enjoyable and uplifting weddings in our local Buddhist center. My partner did'nt have a great experience of the fwbo and avoids it whenever she can. Difficult when engaged to an ordained bloke? Not really. It's easy to be scared by big organisations, the truth is though, you only ever meet people and they are increadibly varied. Some you get on with, others you don't.

Love Gdk

by Amy Wed Jul 25, 2007 20:08

Hi Ron,

Thank you for your reply.

It is not 'somebody' or 'somebodies' as separate entities that are opposed to family situations.. the anti-family 'thought crime' as it were is a brainwashing by cults such as the fwbo and this gradual and subtle brainwashing is inherited from the founder - the founding 'father' (ha ha).. I can't even look at his picture any more - which is plastered all over fwbo sites - it is too annoying and irritating. I heard at a centre in the UK that there is someone at the dublin centre who apparently had a vasectomy in his twenties in order to ensure he would never have children - and this was praised !
I have also heard members and aspiring members discuss the 'lowly' state of family love and relationships. Fact.

Yes, I will write to the outspoken fwbo order member racist. He is aggressive and a disgrace.

Regards,

Amy

by Ron Wed Jul 25, 2007 14:44

Mmmm, Food for thought Amy,
Yes it has been rough in the UK at times and you have left me wondering about Ireland. But what can be done? Especially if most of us are in committed loving relationships and on good terms with our families?

I take it that when you say Midlands you mean Midlands UK rather than Midlands Ireland?
You will see from the beginning of this thread that it is supposed to be about fwbo Ireland rather than the fwbo overseas where none of us live and would hardly feel qualified to comment on. But obviously the fwbo in the UK would need a name otherwise how can they talk to the person? What can they say to you? They might be willing to speak to you on behalf of un-named others but I don't see how that could work.

I hope that myself and another Order member speaking out on this public forum prove that repercussions do not happen to dissenters? So tell your UK friends to speak out vigourously.

If somebody is anti-relationships or anti-family then surely that is up to them is it not? Surely you would not have us impose views on people or punish them for 'Thought Crime'. And why should we let them impose their views on us or allow ourselves to become the passive victims of their veiws?

Yes, I do indeed know very well who you are talking about and his recent piece in Shabda. He is a senior and respected Order member who I believe is really quite nuts.
Of course people were shocked and hurt. But what can be done? We all just need to get on with it as best we can. Why not write to him objecting? Many Order members have.
Shabda is not a 'secret cult magazine' by the way it is a letter from each Order member to every other Order member. As such it is the same as your own personal private mail which is not public either.

by Amy - private Wed Jul 25, 2007 13:27

Dear Ron,

I am in the UK although I have on-going contact with people connected to the centre in Dublin as well as obviously to centres in the UK.

I have spoken to a lot of people who share my views and have had terrible experiences - and you want to know more - they are ex members in the UK (one who regrets to this day that he did not do more once he learned of the founders alleged activities) - people who were actively involved for a long period of time (some who had requested ordination) as well as the partners and close family members of other fwbo followers - and they are both in England and Ireland. Apparently there is a counsellor in the midlands who devotes a lot of time to counselling people previously involved in cults - and she said the most frequent clients in this category are ex-fwbo people who have been 'psychologically damaged' by this group. These people can be slow to talk but it does not mean they do not exist or that we are talking small because we are not and I am not going to name names and add further to their pain.

Ron, some people are slow to speak out because they fear reactions and repurcusions and have friends within the order who even share shabda with them - and yes, you probably know very well who I am talking about in relation to the terribly racist article that appeared in a fairly recent shabda submission. I cannot believe it was published nor can I believe that the reaction to it was so small. I am certain it shocked fellow members - and i am certain it deeply hurt others. and yes, there are plenty of anti-relationship and anti-family comments in there too. I know that members are now starting to marry and have families but when the founder remains held in high esteem (and PLEASE don't tell me he is not) there is a huge contradiction embedded within the group - perhaps that is why there are so many confused people - I have met lots of UK order members with this deep 'fear' of family and this is something that one of the ex-ordainees commented on to.

I am obviously not going to tell you on this site who the above people are. One of the ex-order members left just before the New Year (07) because he felt that his need for family support was dis-credited. He was there until RECENTLY. He still has one or two friends within the group and has said that he has much sympathy for them because in his opinion it is dangerous and continues to degrade the family, very subtly of course. 'I do not know why any woman is involved' - a direct quote from an ordainee's wife.

Amy

by Ron Tue Jul 24, 2007 23:33

I have just read the contributions by Sarah G. above and want to say that I think Subhuti's book 'Women Men and Angels' is a load of nonsense and I do not know any Order member who does not think so. It was withdrawn from publication many years ago and Subhuti has apologised for writing it. It did not even sell out it's first print run and most committed fwbo people simply refused to buy it.

Yes, like many Gay men, but not all, Sangharakshita is no fan of women or 'The Family'. But most of us pay very little attention to him on these topics as Marriage is very much on a massively unprecedented increase in the Order.

It would be good to hear the names of all these; 'SO many families which have been destroyed' by the fwbo in Ireland. That is a very grave allegation, otherwise we are simply in the juvenile realms of gossip, hearsay and anadmissible evidence, according to my Lawyer. Obviously he would have to see addresses and telephone numbers forthcoming too (confidentially) to ascertain them as being non-bogus. Your allegation is very grave and let's remember that Brimstone's allegations have been withdrawn.

Perhaps those; 'SO many families' could write in with their stories?

by Ron Tue Jul 24, 2007 21:11

Dear Amy,
Please say more.
I have never encountered 'a wierd anti-family vibe' here in the fwbo in Ireland where most order members are married and are very much not wholesale believers in all that Sanghakshita taught about men and women. Nor is every overseas Order member. But he always seemed to lack experience in the area of women and relationships.

I do not question your word but forgive me for enquiring; was this in Ireland or overseas? It would just surprise me if it was here thats all. And please accept my apology if it was indeed in Ireland and my rueful acceptance that I must have idealised things here in that regard.
Yours Ron

by Amy - personal Tue Jul 24, 2007 20:28

I came upon the FWBO about three years ago and even went on a weekend retreat. There is most definitely a weird anti-family vibe. The entire weekend was very bizarre and I know I am not the only one to have thought this. Certainly some of the attendees were quite emotionally fragile; others (who had been involved for a while) seemed very emotionally disturbed while others never developed respect for the organisation and would not return. I cannot believe that the founder is still respected and revered by fwbo people. A friend sent me on copies of Shabda (the secret internal newletter) and it is astonishing how he is spoken of so highly by a lot of these fwbo ordainees. I also read a frighteningly racist piece by one of the contributors. I cannot believe it was printed (autumn 2006). I still have it to show people because it is so shocking and offensive. Sangharakshita is a person with apparently little respect for women or families and who apparently sexually abused vulnerable young men (published literature). I mean, come on ... how long does it take for the penny to drop ! People are being duped, fooled, coerced and made to feel they 'belong' while their families outside of the order suffer while an effort is underway to detach young recruits from the apparently mundane idea of family and children ...I have just read Moksananda's discussion about Ordination and Guhyaloka (2006/2007). How he praises the abuser in it too ! Quite frightening - and sickening.

by Ron Tue Jul 24, 2007 18:56

I have no intention of defending Sangharakshita. He is a controversial figure who was always committed
to tearing down the stuffy Buddhist establishment.
You can take that or leave that or drop him a line:

sangharakshita@fwbo.org

I was given the name 'Sanghapala' at Ordination into the Western Buddhist Order in 1983.

Sadly, there are a number of untrue quotes on this website and on 'Dialogue
Ireland' which are presented as though they came from 3 or 4 seperate
individuals when in fact they all come from the same man complaining about the fwbo and
complaining about me.
This man is my partner's ex of 16 years ago.

Like him, she too, is not a member of the fwbo and never was. I did not
meet her at an fwbo class, I met her long before I started fwbo classes and
years before there was any fwbo Centre here. I met her as her student at her yoga class
and after their relationship had finished. I am only writing because both she and
the children are quite upset about seeing this stuff about them on the web.

I officially resigned from the fwbo in January 2000. I am still a member of the Western
Buddhist Order. These are two seperate entities: The fwbo is a Business, however the Western
Buddhist Order is a spiritual community with no legal existence whatsoever.

Every member of the fwbo, past and present will attest that I have never taught
any of the questionable material outlined in the Dialogue Ireland website and alluded to on
this one. Nor have I ever heard this material taught in Ireland by any Order member.

Chastity and celibacy form no part of ordination into the WBO. The overwhelming majority
of Order members have committed partners, most of these are married, many of them have children.
Some of them become monks for a period, most do not
Myself and my current partner initially met 16 years ago then parted for over a decade.
While we were apart I initially had other partners and I then spent seven years as a monk
practising total chastity of body speech and mind. This came to an end three years ago when
I once again became involved with my former partner.

A decade ago, when questions were raised about sexual behaviour at a UK fwbo Centre
Some UK members naturally wondered, back then, if it had happened in Dublin. A
reasonable concern for any Group one would have thought. They found it had not happened in
Dublin.

However, although I was aware that I was maligned in the so called 'fwbo files' in early 1998
we all felt that it sounded pretty laughable at the time, especially the Gay eyewash.
I was well
known to be living in a monastic community. When you live under the same roof with
monastic rules and curriculum then people know all about your comings and goings. All of
these people are still involved to some extent in the fwbo. Why not ask them?

'The fwbo files' is an anti-fwbo diatribe, largely from an ex-lover of Sangharakshita.
When you click on 'fwbo' in Google you end up getting immediately into 'The fwbo files'
This has been the case 24 hours per day for nearly a decade. Can you imagine just how
many people have seen this stuff by now? It includes all those who ever wanted to find out
about the fwbo. It also includes all the Centre staff and people attending the Centre.
It also includes all their friends and relatives and people from other Buddhist groups.
It includes everyone who is ill-disposed towards the fwbo approach to practise and every
anti-Gay and anti-Buddhist Christian Fundamentalist who wants to have a go at the fwbo.
The fwbo cannot make a secret of 'The fwbo files' and has not made a secret of it.

The so called 'fwbo files' seems to be a sign of Trash T.V. times we are
living in with the current vogue for meaningless sensationalism. It is
just another example of the religious bigotry which is so widespread on
the web these days. Every single spiritual Group on the planet gets this
sort of treatment quite simply because every Group has its detractors.

This sort of effluent always comes from people who feel they have to
insist that they have nothing but; 'the deepest respect' for the
particular spiritual tradition they are trashing. Yet, How true is
this in fact? I think we have to see through this smoke screen and look
instead at what they do rather than at what they say. How much of the spirit of
Christianity or Islam or Buddhism is found in the words of these
nameless, self appointed web spokesmen? Do they seem to be motivated by a
harmonious spirit of peace love and understanding? It is remarkable how they turn
Gay sex into 'sex abuse' ie; 'it must be abuse because it was Gay sex.' It sounds like
undisguised homophobia to me.

It is all so long ago and far away, but it is perhaps still worth mentioning that
the so called 'fwbo files' is comically inaccurate to the point of bathos.
Not one sentence
or any part of any sentence concerning myself is true, it looks like a case of
pitifully mistaken identity, I have never been 'extremely sexually active at
Padmaloka'. I have never even lived at Padmaloka. I have never
been Gay or Bi-sexual. I would openly admit if I was. It is not illegal.
I was never involved in any disciplinary
proceedings in the fwbo. I was never accused of any kind of sexual
misconduct. I am on good terms with each of my ex-partners.
There were never any legal proceedings against me or any other member of the Group, nor are
there any legal proceedings pending now, or proposed, against myself or any other
member of that Group, nor have there even been any suggestions of any
such legal proceedings. In the absence of such charges, in the absence
of any court cases, or convictions in the absence of any police investigations
whatsoever, one is left wondering just what case one is being asked to answer?
What is it we are actually talking about here? Granted, it does not make much of a
headline; 'Batchelor has sex with girlfriend'

But just where are all these wronged women or boys? Where do we see the name of even just one single
person who is prepared to come forward and make their charge? Since it has been on the web
all day long, every day for a decade, and no legal proceedings have yet emerged it begins
to look unlikely that any legal proceedings will emerge. If there is no legal case to answer then
why are we talking?

'The fwbo files' include allegations of, and here I quote it's author; "sexual abuse, rape,
hatred of the family, fascism, fraud,
misogyny, wire-tapping, and links to a brutal ritual triple murder on the Asian sub-continent."
(No, they are not accusing me of that lot, I'm just accused of the patently daft Gay sexual abuse.)
But most of the above
are criminal offenses in most countries. Again, for nearly a decade this stuff
has come up on screen as soon as you click on 'fwbo' and again, there have been no charges, no
prosecutions, no convictions, no court summonses have emerged for the blamed parties. Any takers?
Any contenders out there? Should be a Lawyer's delight I'd have thought.

The WBO is the only Buddhist Order in the world and in history where a women's
ordination is equivilent to a man's ordination. The overwhelming majority of Buddhist countries
world wide, have absolutely no ordination for women whatsoever and that makes me glad to be a
Westerner. There are also more women getting ordained into the WBO than ever before and also
more women getting ordained into it now than men. Try telling them it is misogynistic.

In all these years I have never spoken up about this before now. That's because it is just
toilet graffiti. But when they start on my partner and her kids it's a different matter.
Teenagers are quite sensitive to this sort of thing and my partner's parents are both still alive.
It has been a fairly uncomfortable family episode so I thought it was time to say something.

Yours, Ron

by Indie Tue Jul 24, 2007 18:39

What was the title of this page? Buddhists for Peace?

by Dialogue Ireland Tue Jul 24, 2007 17:47

Dialogue Ireland is in the process of replacing the document that presently appears on its website. Since Dialogue Ireland have received no corroborative evidence of his version of events, the new document contains no reference to the correspondence from Brimstone posted above nor to the family members to whom he refers, and therefore bases its conclusions on other correspondence received by the Trust.

by the devil Tue Jul 24, 2007 17:19

Hello again, we crossed in the post.

Yes, each Centre is seperate and autonomous.
This is plain English. Can you tell me in what way it is semantic?
Can you tell me in what way it is hiding?
It either took place in Dublin or it did not. That is a fairly plain non semantic distinction.
You seem unable to admit that it did not take place in Dublin even though you have been found out. We do not even know for a fact that it took place in the UK. but let's just accept that it did.

How does me hearing from people via this very public website "keep it in house and avoid the public becoming aware of it"?

I don't recall 'reputation' being mentioned at any stage. But I see from this comment that you hoped Buddhists would be a soft target? My partner and her kids are not Buddhists. I think you would need to have an I.Q. of less than four to have no regard for reputation in this small town.

Lots of people think I have been patient for ten years, but why should my partner and kids be patient?

I've been one for thirty-five years but does that make me a "real Buddhist"? I certainly hope not, because when we look at it,
what is a real Buddhist exactly? Who says what a "real Buddhist" is exactly? There is no central authority in Buddhism. Many Buddhists in most of the different Buddhist Groups regard Buddhists in other Groups as 'not real Buddhists' but you get that with human beings. It is not a big deal. I detect the same attitude between Christian groups and I do not think it compromises their integrity. Some Tibetan Groups regard the Dalai Lama's Group as being 'not real Buddhists'. I am sure he is not worried.

by the devil Tue Jul 24, 2007 15:52

Hi Clarity,
I do not see any debate here, I just see a bigoted tirade with you and you associates appearing under different names to sound like different wounded souls. So why don't we just bring it on?

'Guy's story' was presented here as though 'he' himself wrote those words to this website a few days ago. Yet, we now learn that, instead, it comes from you or your associate.

Do you have anything new? Do you have anything that is less than ten years old?

You just ran away from the far more rational discussion we were having on your Dialogue Ireland website, an organ that seems to be little more than a personal blog from one solitary Mennonite Christian expressing anger an anyone holding different veiws from himself.

I have been silent about this stuff on the web for the past ten years, but you went too far when you dragged my partner and her kids into this, turning family trauma into a spectator sport. You are soliciting for people to contact your little organ with their tales of abuse and you say that their story will be treated in the strictest of confidence? No Mr. Garde. From your performance so far I don't think so. At this stage I want to see names, I want to see Court cases and I want to see prosecutions.
I'll be over to see you when I get back from Spain in early September

by clarity Tue Jul 24, 2007 13:08

The Guy posting makes no mention of his being at the Dublin Centre' Thats right, it doesnt! And?
'Each Centre is completely seperate and autonomous' sounds just like the stuff that NEO was on about; using semantics to hide-the DBC is part of the FWBO and the FWBO has been responsible for many abuses down the years,; the Church is held for its mistakes, why not the FWBO?
'I thought this thread was suppsed to be about the Dublin Centre'-no, its about abuse in the FWBO
'It is a story which was exposed by the FWBO 19 years ago' No, it was exposed by the Guardian-the FWBO kept very quiet about it until then
'Anything new?'. Yeah-this stuff now, today.
'I would like to hear from them.' Course you would, that would help keep it in house and avoid the public becoming aware of it.
I thought you Buddhists were supposed not to care about reputation. Or is that just proper Buddhists?
Go to the mountain or something-If it is true, then God help you. Otherwise aren't you Buddhists supposed to be patient or something or see iy as your karma?How long have you been a Buddhist?

by the devil Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:40

Hi Clarity,
This means that Guy left the the Croydon UK fwbo before 1988 when Stephen Barnam resigned from the Order after allegations of sexual abuse. So ths means that Guy had never been to the Dublin Centre at all as it did not exist in the eighties.
Each Centre is completely seperate and autonomous. I thought this thread was suppsed to be about the Dublin Centre so it seems misleading to quote one unfortunate young man's allegations of an experience he might, or might not have had in another country at least 19 years ago and possibly more. It is a story which was exposed by the FWBO 19 years ago and has been openly up on the web for all to see for the past ten years now. It certainly gave rise to much soul searching and reform of values within the FWBO internationaly.
The story is told in the so-called 'fwbo files' and comes up on screen as soon as you google 'fwbo' which has also been the case for ten years. Anything new?

Has anyone who has ever attended the Dublin Centre been homosexualy abused or homosexually approached or had any kind of homosexual sex with any Order member at the Dublin Centre since it started? Has any man or woman been heterosexually abused by any male or female Order member at the Dublin Centre since it started? I would like to hear from them.

by Dialogue Ireland - Dialogue Ireland Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:41

Due to the debate that has arisen as a result of a posting by Brimstone as well as other material received by Dialogue Ireland, we are now reviewing the content of our site, with a view to clarifying certain issues and increasing its content. If you are aware of any abuse issues relating to the Dublin Buddhist Centre or have been affected by any of the other issues raised in the document available on our website, please contact us via the contact numbers on our webpage or at info@dialogueireland.org All communications will be treated in the strictest confidence

by clarity Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:28

Dear Sanghapala
Guy is Guy Jones, one of Barnham's many victims

by the devil Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:05

Has anyone else out there had the same experience as Guy? I would like to hear from you 0874124783
FWBO Ireland is a very small place and Guy was involved for 10 years so he must be a friend of mine yet I have never heard of Guy nor have I heard of anyone who even roughly fits the profile he gives nor have any of the Centre people I have spoken to in the last few days, three of whom go right back to the very beginning. On the face of it, it looks as though Guy does not exist.
Why ever would someone involve themselves in an organisation for ten years if it was unsuitable? He does not say that his mental health issues arose from his contact with the FWBO, but let us remember that mental health issues can arise anytime any place and from anywhere, so why not? But why did he not tell any of us? I have never heard of anyone else who had Guy's experience of FWBO Ireland.
Perhaps this Guy story is just more mischief from Brimstone?
If not, and there is a Guy, then I apoligise for having got you (and him) wrong here Guy. I would like to hear from you, so do phone me and let's meet up.

by Lalitavira Mon Jul 23, 2007 18:57

Hi Neo. Please stop talking to me as If I represent the FWBO or am trying to spin some sinister agenda, I don't and I'm not.

But you do have a point that as a legal entity the FWBO can be held responsible. What I was trying to say was those disparate parts you talk of aren't centrally controlled and I can't think of anyone who could accurately be called a spokesman or could answer the charges CBGB makes. This is more to do with the nature of Buddhism, its insistence on individual responsibiity and the fact it's not a top-down religion like theistic ones e.g it doesn't have a Pope (the Dalai Lama is the leader of just one of the Tibetan varieties).

I'm happy to discuss my personal position as outlined in my original post or the shallowness of my premises if you think I'm being dim. But if you really don't trust what I've said and base responses on the assumption I'm lying I probably won't reply to such posts.

I say it again. I am writing as an individual who was once heavily involved with the FWBO and am less involved now. I am not convinced the revelations mentioned in previous posts mean the FWBO is a 'cult' , my personal experience belies this and I did look into them and research them. I take seriously the pain and indignation in people's personal criticisms and experiences but I won't necessarily respond in the way some believe is appropriate. I'll act on my conscience my own way. That is part of my practice of the Dharma.

Best wishes, Lalitavira

by NEO Mon Jul 23, 2007 18:09

'Nor does the FWBO operate as some sort of collective unit capable of denouncing people, admitting mistakes or compensating them.'
This is typical, cult-like 'responsibility avoiding' semantics. The FWBO DOES exist, it has leaders, bank accounts, runs centres and businesses, promotes itself, and issues (inadequate) responses to criticisms. It may be a collection of many different parts but it functions as an entity and therefore CAN be held responsible. Your response is like the Pope claiming that the Catholic Church should not pay compensation to abuse victims because the Church is just a conglomeration of clerics, bricks and so on. No, if you are so noble, emulate the Holy Father and have the grace to face up to your past failings and pay people back for the misery they still endure (and study a bit more of your philosophy before you use such shallow premises in future)

by Lalitavira Mon Jul 23, 2007 17:20

"I found some quotes from an FWBO secret magazine called Shabda at ex-cult.org, most of which are from around that time and immediately after, and found that most of your fellow members certainly did recognize the behaviour you are talking about as part of the current culture of the Order at that same time. "

Shabda is only open to member of the Western Buddhist Order and I wasn't ordained until 2000. Getting involved in 1996 meant attending classes and training for ordination.

"Of course, you might not have been part of the behaviour but it would be best to do a bit more research before you and your colleagues start your campaign to convince people that it is all a long time back in the past."

CBGB I am not engaged in a campaign to convince you of anything and I wrote entirely on my own behalf with no prompting other than the desire to balance the rush to judgmentalism I saw in previous posts. Nor does the FWBO operate as some sort of collective unit capable of denouncing people, admitting mistakes or compensating them.

Personally I think the lack of openess around all this was a mistake but as I don't know all the details and don't immediately believe accussations I'm going to take my own time before labeling people abusers. I can accept you feel it irresponsible of me to continue to belong to the Order but as I tried to make clear above my conscience is clear on that one.

by CBGB Mon Jul 23, 2007 15:06

You say you got involved in 1996 and that after your initiation into the group 'more revelations of the Movements' past came out and I found myself in the weird position of being expected to justify/explain/apologise for behaviour I'd never been part of and didn't recognise as being part of the current culture of the Order.'

I found some quotes from an FWBO secret magazine called Shabda at ex-cult.org, most of which are from around that time and immediately after, and found that most of your fellow members certainly did recognize the behaviour you are talking about as part of the current culture of the Order at that same time. Of course, you might not have been part of the behaviour but it would be best to do a bit more research before you and your colleagues start your campaign to convince people that it is all a long time back in the past.

Also, I wonder if the principal abuser named in the Guardian, Sangharakshita, has been outed by the Order or is he still being held in the highest esteem? It seems to me that if the FWBO really wanted to make a break from the past, they would denounce him, openly admit to all of their mistakes (rather than denying them) and compensate their victims or, in those cases where people died, their families. That would be the honest way of doing things instead of trying to hide your skeletons in the closet.

by Lalitavira Sun Jul 22, 2007 14:36 Lalitavira at gmail dot com

Hi, I came across the FWBO in 1996 in London after attending a meditation retreat at one of their residential centres in Surrey. After having been involved in a relatively harmless if slightly bizarre spiritual group, The Emin Foundation, in my teens I immediately recognised the atmosphere of well meaning but flawed idealism in the participants, more in the newer members than those involved long term. I'd left the Emin of my own accord when I recognised its aims clashed with my own values and so felt confident I could explore another movement without being sucked in to something dysfunctional.

I'd been abstinent from drink and drugs for about five years by then (via Narcotics Anonymous) and beginning an acting and writing career but found personal ambition no answer to a yearning for purpose and contribution I'd had since childhood. My contact with practicing Buddhists convinced me the Dharma was the way and so I dived in with enthusiasm. Within six months I had moved city and was working in a gift shop while enthusiastically pursuing ordination into the Western Buddhist Order.

One of the reasons I decided to move city was because the group I visited there admitted their ideal of not conducting sexual relations within the local Sangha (in this case meaning the local community of practicing Buddhists) had been hard to maintain and that a few people were 'going out ' with each other. Instead of being shocked by this I was relieved these people were as messy and compromised as I believed (and continue to believe) myself to be. At no time was I coerced to make these major changes in my life and though I regret the abruptness with which I left some of my friendships (all of which have since been repaired) I must state it was my decision to be so adamant in my behaviour (against the gentle suggestions of many of the Buddhists I met).

After a few weeks I was told about some of the FWBO's past (mainly the revelations in the Guardian's article about the Croydon centre). I was shocked not so much that individuals had exploited the inevitable hierarchies of a religious community to satisfy their own appetites (this will go on as long as people exist) but how some of the teachings of the Order's founder had been used to rationalise this behaviour. I was dissappointed that the language of spiritual aspiration had been co-opted in this way and it was the beginning of a process of growing up in regard to how I regarded spiritual teachers. I still admire much about Sangharakshita's teaching but am hopefully mature enough to reject that which my own conscience cannot agree with.

Nonetheless I still found in my own expereince that the people I lived, worked and practiced with were genuine and sincere. There were no sinister, charismatic figures trying to get their own way but just the usual tensions of any group of imperfect human beings. If anything the banality of my experiences was more difficult to accept than any dysfunctional behaviour. The idea of spiritual hierarchy (that one needs to be receptive to the greater perspective of more experienced practioners) is tricky and I've seen (and have been responsible for) some ego-based lording it over others which probably had no objective justification. In some ways it is no different from the respect one would show anyone you think understands the world better than you. But we are insecure creatures and can set up ourselves and others as better than we can be. I've done it to others and been bitterly dissappointed when they didn't live up to expectations. I've had it done to me, most often without my collussion, and just had to sit back and take the flak when my admirers' fantasies and projections crumbled.

But to get back to the issues. I eventually moved to Manchester in 1998 to join forces with Clear Vision, a Buddhist educational company and set up a storytelling project. For the next 8 years I made my living running workshops in primary schools introducing children to the basic ideas of the Dharma using story and drama games. The work was very popular and I was always asked back. I stress this as there have been some attacks made on the work of Clear Vision which has been an exemplary (and award winning) promoter of clear non-dogmatic teaching materials. The current director goes out of her way to forge links with other faiths.

While in Manchester I was ordained into the Western Buddhist Order as I was still convinced it offered the best context for me to deepen my practice of Buddhism. A little while later more revelations of the Movements' past came out (as mentioned in the posts above) and I found myself in the weird postion of being expected to justify/explain/apologise for behaviour I'd never been part of and didn't recognise as being part of the current culture of the Order. And which I didn't approve of either. I did consider leaving the Order but decided that the Order Members I knew were in no way perpetuating the warped thinking of the past and that, extraordinarly painful though it was going to be, this airing of past and present grievances was a chance for us all to grow up.

Throughout all this I and several friends and colleagues continued to teach meditation and Buddhism upto four times a week to hundreds of people. We did it as well as we could, didn't seduce or exploit the students and tried in sometimes clumsy ways to promote the Dharma while respecting people's autonomy and reminding them Dharma practice is never easy and always requires the painful changing of reassuring habits. I hope I treated people as adults and hoped they responded as such.

In February 2006 I moved to Dublin at the invitation of friends. I was becoming uneasy with how comfortable the life of a Buddhist teacher felt and wanted a new challenge to mark the move into my forties. I was also frustrated by the projection I mentioned earlier where because I taught a lot at a Buddhist Centre people would start to make me responsible for their own spiritual aspirations. An impossible situation and prone to messy results. I'm currently exploring a more ordinary way of being a Buddhist but happily attend the Dublin Buddhist Centre at times and have taught there and may teach there again.

I am very sorry to hear about the distress some people have posted up. Very. And if it would be of any help I will gladly talk on the phone or in person if you think that might help. Just email me at the address attached. I'm not a spokesman, this is an entirely personal offer.

But I must also say I have a different experience of the FWBO and the WBO and don't feel like I'm part of some sinister cult exploiting the vulnerable. Nor are those currently teaching at the Dublin Buddhist Centre, most of whom are friends of mine and a bunch of, I say it again, genuine, sincere, well-meaning practitioners. All of them probably have their own stories as to how they've coped with the criticisms and revelations of the WBO. I won't speak for them. But I would suggest giving them the benefit of the doubt and exploring what they have to say for yourselves. That is one of the central tenents of Buddhism and the reason I continue to practice it, and practice it in the WBO. There is a lot of strong criticism floating about the web (and being copied wholesale and unexamined from one place to another) which just because it's impassioned doesn't mean it's true.

With loving-kindness, Lalitavira (Phil Evans)

by Guy Wed Jul 18, 2007 21:11

Times 2002

I was involved with the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order (FWBO) for more than ten years from my late teens. When I joined I was desperate to feel better about myself and get free from the drug culture in which I was involved. The FWBO seemed to be a place where I'd get help and receive the "friendship" the order holds so precious. When I left I was suicidal and nearly hospitalised in a mental health unit. It has taken four years of psychotherapy to heal the damage done to me.

by CBGB Tue Jul 17, 2007 22:41

Have you seen the stuff about them on Dialogue Ireland's website? Look's like this has been going on for years. Not a cult??Are you joking!

by Sarah G - Private Wed Jul 04, 2007 17:49

Hi Siobhan,

I went there too and did a meditation course about two years ago !! I probably met you there ! They never mentioned their shady past or the sexual abuses though. It is really upsetting that they can get away this and try to 'sell' their cult as Buddhist..

Since looking in to it more, I have been meeting other people who have been emotionally damaged by this group. one guy I know still won't or can't talk about his experience. Apparently, some people have given up their full time jobs or dropped out of college to get more involved in the fwbo. I keep hearing about marriages and relationships breaking down because of the fwbo and it is so sad, especially for poor kids. i feel so sad for the person who wrote about how his family has been destroyed. that's awful. was shown the book 'women, men and angels' written by this 'subhuti' (fwbo) person. it is really shocking that they can talk like this about women and families !! unbelievable !! u should read it.

please tell people to be careful please. meditation is positive and buddhism is lovely but not within the context of the fwbo.

Sarah

by siobhan Wed Jul 04, 2007 09:48

its ok ive just seen its the one on leeson st.
which is the one i went to! (i think)
i went there for some evening mediatation classes about 2 years ago and it seemed ok - but they were just a two hour class with about 20 of us in the class.

by siobhan Wed Jul 04, 2007 09:45

where is this dublin buddhist centre located?
how are they still allowed to exist?
is it well documented around dublin that they might be dodgey ? its just this is the first ive heard about it.

ive seen a few around town - but wouldnt know which of them is the one being referred to here..i'll just make sure i avoid it and tell other people to stay away too.

cheers

by Sarah G - personal Tue Jul 03, 2007 21:11

I am SO glad to see that people are beginning to recognise this group for what it is as it hides behind the mask of Buddhism.. It is not Buddhist; It is not compassionate; it is not family friendly and it is anti women and anti children's rights. PLEASE STAY AWAY anyone who thinks they may want to visit the centre that masquerades as Dublin Buddhist Centre. you will certainly be made to feel very welcome and as one person I know commented, if you have 'broken wings', be particularly careful. There have been huge publicised past abuses. If you are any way vulnerable, you are in danger of gradual and slow immersion in to an organsation that was built around coercing and duping vulnerable young men. you can be certain it is very inviting but it is a slow death. I know someone who had a nervous breakdown as a result of this pathetic group. Their founder stole much of his rantings from Nietzche. If you want to develop your mind spiritually and want to learn how to meditate, please please go elsewhere. I know SO many families who have been left devastated as a result of this group.

by rachel kearns - none Tue Mar 27, 2007 13:05

before anyone goes to meditation for peace in dublin buddhist centre, they might want to read this. family members of people involved in the centre in leeson street have been on rte radio a few times this week talking about issues such as those outlined in this article. i have no gripe with buddhism or any other religion but believe people should know the full story on groups before diving in.

From "The Guardian" on October 27, 1997
The dark side of enlightenment

This is Matthew, a talented Oxford graduate who rejected careerism in the mid-1980s and joined a controversial Buddhist movement. Seven years ago he killed himself. Now the British-based cult is engulfed in allegations that it manipulated vulnerable young men into becoming homosexual

Exclusive investigation by Madeleine Bunting

In a small network of streets around the old fire station in Bethnal Green, East London, can be found Britain's last revolutionaries. But these are no socialist workers - they are the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order, one of Britain's biggest and fastest growing Buddhist organisations. They believe they are evolving the Higher Individual and the New Society according to the 2,500-year-old principles of the Buddha, as adapted for the late 20th century by their revered leader, Sangharakshita - formerly known as Dennis Lingwood. They might be called the last remnants of sixties' hippie idealism.

Some - and they include many senior Buddhists - watch their success with alarm, and privately accuse them of peddling a quixotic ideology which owes as much to Nietszche and 20th century psycho-therapy as to a highly eclectic pot-pourri of eastern Buddhist traditions.

Even more disturbing, the cases of three vulnerable young men have emerged which detail sexual manipulation and oppressive authoritarian cult behaviour which, in the case of one man, has been cited as a significant factor leading to his suicide

The nerve centre of this now international religious organisation - with bases in Spain, Germany, the US and Australia, as well as in 30 UK locations - is an enormous Victorian house on a leafy street in Moseley, Birmingham. There, Subhuti (formerly Alex Kennedy), widely regarded as Sangharakshita's righthand man, admits with exemplary honesty that he has been waiting for a journalist to stumble on this murky past. "Thank God it's not the News of the World," he comments with characteristic mildness.

Nine years ago, one of the flagship FWBO centres spectacularly imploded in a welter of allegations of homosexual abuse, personality destruction and manipulation. It bore all the characteristics of a cult as Subhuti admits, and it left at least 30 people badly damaged psychologically. "People got caught in a collective delusion, a group psychosis which was very interesting but distressing," Subhuti says. Even now, he adds, he is still learning the full extent of what went on within that tightly-controlled, secretive community.

Such stories are hard to match up with the sincere idealism of many of the 4,000 regular adherents of the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order (FWBO). Hard to match up with their benign public image to the 20,000 people who come to their 30 centres around Britain every year to learn the calming and enlightening benefits of meditation. And hard to match up with their rightly recognised work with Buddhist Untouchables in India.

It belies the respectability of the FWBO. Articulate and energetic, its members have established themselves beyond the Buddhist community as an authoritative voice of Buddhism. Some sit on local authority standing advisory committees drawing up religious syllabuses for schools and they offer teachers training in the principles of Buddhism. Some broadcast on the BBC World Service. They have won considerable admiration for their co-operative ethical businesses, which now employ 300 people with a turnover of £7.5 million.

Subhuti insists that the scandal was unique and due to the head of the centre, a follower of Sangharakshita but a manipulative and charismatic individual who subsequently left the movement. It can never be repeated, he emphatically asserts. But there are others who disagree and who argue that Sangharakshita's teachings - which are intensively studied by members - can be used to legitimise sexual and emotional manipulation.

What makes these revelations potentially so damaging to the FWBO is that they implicate its very founder. The 700 Order members and 1,400 mitras (novices) perceive Sangharakshita as a man of great spiritual insight and compassion. But Mark Dunlop tells another story. In 1972, as a 22-year-old curious about Buddhism, he started a FWBO meditation class. Singled out by Sangharakshita, he became his virtually constant companion for years.

"I was very in awe of Sangharakshita," he says. "He represented Buddhist ideals. But he was petulant and controlling. He doesn't boss people about but suggests something isn't spiritually appropriate. I thought he was an important spiritual teacher and I ought to do whatever I could to help him."

Sangarakshita persuaded Mark that in order to develop spiritually he had to get over his anti-homosexual conditioning, which was blocking him from devoting his energies to the spiritual life. He offered to help Mark.

"He would want to have sexual contact about twice a week on average. He usually said something like, 'Let me just lie beside you for a while'. I dreaded hearing this but felt mean and selfish if I thought of refusing. It was distressing, but some of the other Buddhist practices I had recently learned were themselves strange, such as meditation, but there were apparent benefits.

"He would get into my bed and perhaps stroke my chest for a while. Then he would get on top of me and rub himself against my stomach until he had an orgasm. I found the whole business repellent but at least it didn't take very long - only about four or five minutes usually. I was completely passive throughout, just waiting for him to finish.

"I felt on balance I had to take his ideas on anti-homosexual conditioning seriously. If I protested he would admonish me that I should not give into conditioning and allow it to inhibit the development of our 'spiritual friendship'. Giving up the homosexual relationship would be like giving-up Buddhism and the spiritual journey. I kept thinking I would have a breakthrough and would get aroused. I was very embarrassed by the sexual relationship and I saw this as my not being able to accept myself as I was - bisexual. I felt it was my duty to Buddhism and Sangharakshita as the person who was bringing Buddhism to the West.

Eventually, Mark summoned the courage to bring an end to the sexual relationship, and his friendship with Sangharakshita - for whom he had bought a house with an inheritance - then petered out. But Mark remained in the FWBO until 1985, struggling to hold on to Buddhism. When he finally left he felt a great sense of failure and guilt about being heterosexual. He blamed himself and became severely depressed.

Sangharakshita, who officially retired last year, although he continues to be the FWBO's guiding influence, refuses to comment on Dunlop's allegations, which were first made a decade ago. But he has admitted several times that, after his return from India to England in 1967, he broke his monastic vow of celibacy and "experimented with sex" - "I was just exploring certain things for my own benefit, for the satisfaction of my own curiosity."

Subhuti, who knew Dunlop during his "close friendship" with Sangharakshita, insists that Dunlop's account bears no relation to his recollections of a strong-willed, independent young man.

Mark is still, 20 years later, an angry man, but what makes his story particularly disturbing is that it appears to bear characteristics which were echoed over a decade later at another centre with a different FWBO teacher.

By the early eighties, one of Sangharakshita's followers was heading a centre which was strikingly successful in attracting new recruits. One of these was Tim (he does not wish to give his surname), who was trying to throw off drug addiction. Meditation classes became a full-time commitment and, aged 19, he moved into the single-sex community of 27 men. He worked an average of 45 hours a week in the co-operative business for £22 a week.

"I gave up drugs overnight. I was torturing myself - ashamed of having been in drugs. It was like my detox. In the midst of that process of getting well and growing up, I was exposed to the spiritual orientation of the place. The head of the community was a very powerful, intrusive personality and incredibly manipulative. He would intuitively become aware of people's vulnerabilities. The one thing you are when you are withdrawing from drugs is very vulnerable. I must have had that printed all over me.

"He would massage my ego. Suddenly I was no longer a normal kid coming off drugs, I was on the point of enlightenment. He put me on a pedestal. I fell for it. At the time I had no contact with family, friends - I was told not to, because they would drag me back into samsara ("the wheel of suffering"). They said to me to keep away from women and relationships because they are totally neurotic. He abused my family in public. 'Your mum's castrated your father emotionally, and she'll do the same to you', he'd say. The first time it happened I was shocked, but I was intent on getting away from my addictions and I thought 'I just have to go through with this' and I gritted my teeth.

"After six months, I said to a friend in the community that I felt I was losing my marbles. This got back to him. He suggested that the reason was because I was gay and was repressing it. It was all to do with my mother and that was why I had ended up taking drugs. I thought, 'Well, I like my male friends and I'm close to them but I'm not attracted to them'. But I was so confused that I began to doubt everything about myself, including my sexuality. I had put all my eggs in one basket and I'd invested so much in it all - this was the meaning of life and death.

"Then he used to say, 'Can't you feel what's going on between us?' I just didn't know- yes, no, I don't know. I was so done in and the meaning of life had become bound up with my homosexuality and its repression. Gradually he became more and more clear about my homosexuality being directed towards him. He could solve this for me, he used to say. In the end he took me to bed. It happened twice. It couldn't have been much fun for him, it so obviously wasn't where I was at."

Like Mark, Tim blamed himself and remained in the FWBO unhappy and confused. He only finally left six months ago. He emphasises that there are other FWBO members who have always treated him with respect. But he has become bitter about their failure to protect him at a vulnerable stage in his life. In the last couple of months, a senior Order member has apologised to him.

The tightly controlled manipulative environment at this centre which Tim describes also played a major role in the suicide of Matthew (his family does not wish the surname to be used) in 1990. Like Mark and Tim, Matthew started FWBO meditation classes at a vulnerable point in his life. Highly intelligent, he had won a scholarship to Oxford to read law but after coming down had grown increasingly disenchanted with careerism and materialism. He suffered from depression and was attracted to meditation to cope with his emotional problems. He moved into the FWBO centre where he lived from 1984 to 1987, working in the co-operative business as a builder/decorator. While he was there, he cut virtually all his contacts with friends and family.

When he emerged, he was "withdrawn and bleak", according to his mother, Denise. He was unable to hold down a job or start a relationship and was referred to a psychiatrist to be treated for depression. Three years later, he committed suicide.

Some of his diary entries while he was with the FWBO capture his confusion and anguish:

January 1985: I feel more trapped here. Trapped by the ... routine, trapped by the ominous determination of "spiritual friends" to keep me here. I'm losing my will. Panic! I seem to have stumbled in desperate need of shelter into the Tiger's Cave.

February: I feel sometimes that openness to the Order means giving up one's mind, thus becoming merely an adjunct of the Order. Still could be great!

After Matthew's death, his mother found two letters he had written to FWBO members after he left but which he had never sent. In one he wrote: "I have felt manipulated all the way by people who have allowed themselves to be manipulated. I am now out of reach of all that ghastly sales talk ... [it was] a petty totalitarian state, an Orwellian Albania with its own Big Brother." In another, he said: "I could never return to that ghastly concentration camp atmosphere with its force-fed dogma and drip-feed friendships ... where reason and individual experience are crushed by people who expect total submission before any real friendship or recognition is gained."

Matthew was seen for two years by a clinical psychologist, who was in no doubt of the detrimental impact the FWBO had on him. He concluded in his report: "Matthew's problems as to a large part resulted from the traumatic effects of his experiences whilst he had been a member of the FWBO ... talked about them with great bitterness. He told me he had decided shortly after entering the FWBO community that he was unsuited to stay there; however he felt trapped and unable to leave as he had fallen under the influence of his tutor, a man he later came to see as being an exceptionally skilful manipulator of other people.

"Matthew felt that the senior members of the community attempted to deliberately break up his identity, in order to get him to accept the fundamental principles and practices of the community. He tried to resist this process and therefore entered into a prolonged period of psychological conflict with them. He feels the community attempted to alienate him from his family and from women, and that direct attempts were made to encourage him to practise homosexuality. He stated that he did not indulge in homosexual practices, although attempts were made for him to do so both by using inducements and by using threats.

"In my opinion Matthew's three-year residence in the FWBO had extremely harmful psychological effects upon him ... I have no doubt that this inability to cope with rejection [of losing the job shortly before his suicide] from others directly stemmed from the years of psychological abuse and rejection he had experienced whilst he was a member of the Buddhist community."

Senior Buddhists have been worried about the FWBO for many years. While unaware of the scandal in the eighties until now - remarkably, no hint of it appears to have gone beyond the FWBO - they had feared just this eventuality, and believe that Sangharakshita's interpretation of Buddhism can be used to licence sexual and psychological abuse. It is an allegation the FWBO fiercely rejects.

Sangharakshita's and Subhuti's published writings reveal an extraordinary agenda on sex, family and women. A misogynistic biological determinism consigns women to a "Lower Evolution", where their hormonal rhythms and desire for children render them spiritually inferior to men. The biological drive apparently makes women manipulative as they seek to "ensnare" men into providing for them and their offspring. Women as mothers and partners suffocate the development of men's true identity. The heterosexual couple is scorned as "mutually addictive and neurotic" and the family is the "enemy of the spiritual community". Rearing children is dismissed by Sangharakshita in a memorable analogy as being as spiritually significant as a rainy day.

Sangharakshita sees the FWBO as developing a blueprint for a radically new society. Members are encouraged to move into single-sex communities and in their businesses work-teams are also singe-sex; this is regarded as more conducive to the spiritual life. Even husband and wives are encouraged to live separately. It is primarily within same-sex relationships - whether or not they involve sex - that members are expected to discover the full benefits of spiritual friendship. There is no imposition of a vow of celibacy; members are simply advised not to invest too much emotion in their sexual relationships. Subhuti even advocates casual sex as a way of achieving this.

The FWBO emphasises that these teachings are not all put in practice. Most FWBO members are heterosexuals and a large number have families. It says there is considerable debate on some teachings and, given the importance placed on individual judgement, there is plenty of room for people to disagree. It also argues that the movement is evolving and has become much more open to families and heterosexual relationships. It points to a strong, self-confident women's wing - a third of ordained Order members are women - as evidence that there is no structural misogyny.

There are other parts of FWBO teaching which gained currency in the seventies and eighties from which it is now anxious to distance itself. Subhuti argued in an FWBO internal magazine in 1986 that it could be beneficial to change sexual orientation as a way of recognising - and liberating yourself from - your conditioning; and that a teacher/mentor could use sex as a way of opening up communication with their pupil. Homosexual sex was promoted as more conducive to the spiritual life than heterosexual sex. Some members tried to raise the alarm, warning that novices were being damaged by sexually predatory teachers and demanding an end to the "glorification of homoerotic feelings". But it was not until 1988 that the FWBO discovered how such ideas had been implemented at the centre attended by Tim and Matthew.

It is not hard to see how one FWBO centre became a cult. Like any new religious movement, there is a strong tendency to denigrate the outside world in order to strengthen its adherents' commitment to the movement - Sangharakshita reserves his most contemptuous scorn for a host of evils which include "pseudo-liberalism", feminism and Christianity. There is always a danger that this leads to a self-referential introversion in which an unscrupulous, charismatic and sexually manipulative personality can run amok.

This was exactly the outcome Stephen Batchelor, a prominent Buddhist commentator and author of Buddhism without Beliefs had always feared in the FWBO as a "potentially totalitarian system". He says: "They operate as a self-enclosed system and their writings have the predictability of those who believe they have all the answers. They are structured in a rigid hierarchy and do not seem to question the teachings of their leader. As with many new religious movements, their enthusiasm and unconventional convictions have the potential to lead to problems associated with 'cults' and one centre in the eighties does appear to have tipped over into full-blown cultish behaviour, which, to the FWBO's credit, they closed down."

While he describes Sangharakshita as a "very sensitive man", Batchelor finds his views on heterosexual relationships "bizarre" and his views on women "distasteful".

Ken Jones, lecturer and author of several books on Buddhism, believes that the FWBO is now changing but it still has a long way to go before losing its "locker-room" culture of aggressive male bonding akin to public school or the army: "There's a culture of angry young men struggling against women, the family and the state. All of that has nothing to do with Buddhism and a lot to do with Sangharakshita's psychology. In that kind of culture, you can get cult like behaviour and victimisation. It's a deviant form of Buddhism."

A leading Buddhist teacher who did not wish to be named is particularly concerned by the FWBO's belittling of the family and child rearing, which he argues has traditionally been perceived as a enormous valuable "spiritual training ground" within Buddhist tradition. "Amongst other Buddhists, attitudes towards the FWBO range from caution to suspicion," he says, adding that the FWBO is a "Westernised semi-intellectual pot-pourri of Buddhism" conflated with 20th century psychotherapy and Nietszche.

"In the West perhaps people could distinguish between Catholicism and the Moonies but they can't distinguish between types of Buddhism. Not many know very much about Buddhism. Even the well-educated who are attracted to Buddhism are completely credulous when it comes to spiritual things."

While the FWBO's Buddhism may be awry, and some of the fruits of that have been disastrous, there are many sincere Buddhists within the Order who will be profoundly disturbed by this article. The FWBO argues in effect that the day to day activities and friendships within it have little to do with some of the ideas of Sangharakshita and Subhuti. It seems that where the FWBO becomes dangerous is when people begin to apply such teaching literally. Some have done so in the past - with devastating consequences. Could they again?

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Sex and the sect.
The heterosexual couple is ... 'neurotically dependent on each other and [the] relationship, therefore, is one of mutual exploitation and mutual addiction' - Sangharakshita.

...'a fragile and unwholesome unit. It offers little real stability and happiness and, by virtue of the clinging and delusion that it embodies, is antithetical to spiritual life' - Subhuti.

'‘Some people might decide to keep clear of unhealthy attachment by happily enjoying a number of different sexual relationships' - Subhuti

'‘If you set up a community, you abolish the family at a stroke...the single-sex community is probably one of our most powerful means of assault on the existing social set-up' - Sangharakshita

'Sexual interest on the part of a male Order member for a male mitra (novice) can create a connection which may allow kalyana mitrata (spiritual friendship) to develop.
‘Some, of course, are predisposed to this attraction, others have deliberately chosen to change their sexual preferences in order to use sex as a medium of kalyana mitrata - and to stay clear of the dangers of male-female relationships without giving up sex' - Subhuti (in 1986)

© The Guardian 1997