Socialism 2006

by Maxell Thu Sep 21, 2006 19:01

It is very good that these debates are hapening as we need more public discussion on these important topics. Will the general public be allowed to give their views in the debates?

by Mark P - Socialist Party (personal capacity) Thu Sep 21, 2006 19:07

Yes. When the Socialist Party hosts public meetings the usual format is that each of the platform speakers says their piece, then the discussion is opened up for contributions from the floor before the platform speakers get a couple of minutes each to respond.

by McWilliams Fan Thu Sep 21, 2006 19:28

McWilliams will wipe the floor with Higgins.

by Higgins fan Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:15

It'll all be fine for McWilliams until Higgins points out that not everyone in Ireland drives a BMW and sends their kids to a private school. McWilliams will be unable to take it in and his head will explode with confusion

by Mother Jones Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:41

Ive been at the SP's Socialism event before and its always the same. They get some interesting outside speakers, mostly from the left, sometimes, like McWilliams, from the right. The guest speaker says his/her thing, the SP speaker gives the party line, a few non-aligned lefties make interesting comments or ask genuine questions and then a line of mainly young SPers vie with each other to repeat the party line and display their loyalty. At the end the guest speaker usually tries to answer whatever questions were put, the SP speaker usually avoids any questions which cannot be answered with the standard rhetoric and once again reiterates the party line.

Its all very depressing becuse the real purpose of the event is not to promote debate or consider new ideas but simply to confirm the faith amongst the faithful. Never once have I heard an SP platform speaker at this event question in the slightest way even the tiniest detail of party policy. Rarely have I heard an SP member speaking from the floor do anything other than just parrot the party line. Of course, the SP are not the only ones guilty of this, the SWP's Marxism event is just a slightly jazzed up version of the same thing. But then if you have no real culture of debate and questioning within your organisation or in the SPs case very obvious limits to the parameters of debates, then you will hardly wish to organise events that include real dialogue and debate.

I wish it were otherwise, but then again I also wish I won the lotto, neither of which is going to happen anytime soon, so this time I'll give it a miss. Is it too much to hope that at least one left wing organisation in Ireland could organise a real discussion/debate event where there was a genuine exchange of ideas rather than a call and echo session?

by Observer Fri Sep 22, 2006 13:43

Flowing from the above point, I would suggest that a good event might be something like a debate between say John Throne and Peter Hadden on how to build the left in Ireland and internationally.

by La Marchesse Fri Sep 22, 2006 15:47

Far from agreeing with the cynical comment above, I think this event is to be welcomed. The Socialist Party have a mostly deserved reputation for not taking an interest in the doings or views of the rest of the Irish far left. It is notable though that they organise an awful lot of public debates. Debates with other left wingers and debates about left wing ideas with "mainstream" political figures.

The poster above compares this event with the SWP's Marxism one. I'm not down on Marxism the way many non-SWP lefties are, I think it's a useful event in its own way. But the obvious difference here is that the SP event is organised around debates with other people, rather than lectures from their own members. I don't know if this is the second or the third of these Socialism events, but the one I saw some of previously had debates with Fine Gael and Sinn Fein. The hall by the way was jammed full (for the Fine Gael one anyway, I wasn't at the SF part).

Do SP members agree with each other at these debates? I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't agree when the subject is something like socialism or capitalism. If you don't agree with them, they've done you the favour of providing you with an audience to express that disagreement. You should feel free to take advantage of it. (As I've seen everyone from the Sparts to the SWP to Fine Gaelers to SFers to the above mentioned John Throne do).

by hs - sp (per cap) Sat Sep 23, 2006 16:05

The debates are more generalised at this sort of event, the Peter Hadden vs John Throne might be a bit obscure for this. Although I should point out to observer John Throne did take part in the debate from the floor two years ago, He spoke for some time and did put his position forward on what the left should do in Ireland, It was answered but I can't remember by who. Colin Bretnach also put forward similar ideas.
Socialist Youth has had debates with WSM and others in smaller meetings.

I would also suggest that those sort of inter left debates could be better organised by non party political groups rather than the partys themselves, as it inevitable the SP event will be full of Spers and vice versa for other groups. Maybe it's something observer or others not involved in part politics could consider organising?

by Puzzled Sat Sep 23, 2006 18:32

Is the Colin Bretnach referred to above the same as the Colm Breathnach speaking at the conference? If he is how come hs doesnt even read the programme for his own partys event in which case he could get the spelling right or is it just carelessness with Irish language names? Apologies if Im wrong and hs was referring to two different people.

by himself Mon Sep 25, 2006 15:11

I see Sheridan is headlining the equivilent event over in London, has there been any statements from the CWI here about Solidarity and the SSP?

Speakers include:
Mark Serwotka, general secretary of the civil servants' union PCS
The PCS has led important struggles against government attacks on workers pay and conditions
Lucy Redler, WASG regional executive committee and SAV (Socialist Alternative - CWI, Germany).
Leading anti-cuts campaigner in Berlin
Tommy Sheridan MSP, leader of the newly formed Solidarity - the Scottish Socialist Movement.
Tommy recently defeated Murdoch's News Of The World in a famous court case.

by hs Mon Sep 25, 2006 17:03

No just bad spelling, though I'm not anti irish (???), sorry if I offended you!

by SP member Tue Sep 26, 2006 00:20

Tommy Gun there is an article in the latest issue of the SP paper about Scotland.