The death of Gyorgy Ligeti (1923 - 2006)

by iosaf Tue Jun 13, 2006 19:37

Oh well, that would be a "author/composer" issue...

Since I broke the news to the english language world people have jumped on the write a nice obituary bandwagon. And sure why not? These days opening a newspaper one would think the peculiar celtic and particularly Irish gift for understated bitchiness had found fans throughout the english speaking world. Its been a long time since I read a simple "jolly good luck to him/her on the other side!" death notice.

Here are some of the obits Ligeti has earned in the last day :-
http://www.macmusic.org/news/view.php/lang/en/id/4534/
http://music.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_117228..._died
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/culturevulture/archives/200....html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20....html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/13/arts/music/13ligeti.h...login
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
http://www.metoperafamily.org/operanews/news/pressrelea...=1200
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/newsMainTemplate.asp?storyI...nID=1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,179640....html

His family (wife Vera and son Lukas) are hoping for a quiet funeral, there will be no draped flags, neither will there be Telly, No-one is going to removce his heart and send it back to some birth-shrine in Translyvania. Austria instead has offered a "special grave". Soon enough the only people who will mention his name will do so with true affection -
His family, his friends, his students, the musicians and singers of his work - & those who in the future will derive pleasure and spiritual sustenance from the practise of that work.

RIP
.:. rest now +

I do quite like the obituary series on indymedia ireland. I haven't contributed all of them, but some of them sí fui yo! If you'd like to peruse them & see how differently writers, artists, musicians & politicians face the great unknown of remembrance click these links .-

http://indymedia.ie/openwire?story_title=the%20death%20of

life is precious = live it well. It is much how you will be remembered & forgotten. What you gave not what you did. RIP Gyorgy Ligeti

by redjade Thu Jun 15, 2006 15:49

Wikipedia provides a quick debunking of the Kubrick angle at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_moon_landing_conspi...brick

No evidence that NASA hired Kubrick has ever been offered by the Anti-Moonies, but 'Kubrick did hire Frederick Ordway and Harry Lange, both of whom had worked for NASA and major aerospace contractors, to work with him.'

Filmmaker William Karel made a fake documentary about how the moon landing was supposedly faked called 'Dark Side of the Moon' [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Side_of_the_Moon_(documentary) ] If you use ed2k you can download it here:
http://indypeer.org/topics/topic/media.php - some people still are hoaxed by this hoax about a hoax.

'Besides being a comedic documentary, it is also an exercise in Jean Baudrillard's theories of hyperreality.' {wikipedia}

Unfortunately Rupert Murdoch ('We Report - You Decide') revived the NASA Fake Moon Landing story recently and aired a show on American FOX TV called Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? and ever since its been up to the Liberal Media to stamp out this disinfo. { http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast23feb_2.htm }

This FOX Documentary was aired on February 15th and March 21st 2001 - such were the innocent days in America when there was so little to talk about or be concerned about.

Little did americans know at the time that Bush was conspiring with the zionists to blow up the Pentagon and the World Trade Center and pin the blame on innocent Osama Bin Laden {that was a joke, folks - ok?}

Seriously Iosaf, if you're gonna get into conspiracy theory nonsense, post the good stuff that I almost believe in...

Such as the Masonic/NASA conspiracy to blow up Saturn in July 2008 { my collected links: http://del.icio.us/redjade/The_Lucifer_Project }

1902 french film proves it

by chris murray - the unmanageables Fri Jun 16, 2006 13:21

being that today is Bloomsday an all....

The matches Bloom used were called Lucifers.

which brings me to the Hermit in tarot, a cabalist figure , who carries his lantern under his
cloak, this translates as circumspection. Lucifer, much maligned, but the issue of illumination in
a world of shades interests. Thank for the obits. am waiting for the big one, though it is
shrouded in silence.

unable to supply a treatise on the duende, holistic philosophy, Lucifer, shade and light,
Buddhism and the book of the dead. However all these things can be accessed via net, library and bookshop. The tibetan book of the dead has interesting parallels in Irish waking habits, including
the voices of keening. Also used in Mary Lavin, "The Green and Black Grave"
The women in ' Murder in the Cathedral', TS Eliot, a lot of chorus in Shakespeare and of course
the mythos and greek tragedy. The sidelined voices of women who de-construct and narrate the
action of the main characters is particularly well done in Murder in the Cathedral.( Eliot being rather expert at that type of writing). Tho' his first wife might not have agreed.

by redjade Fri Jun 16, 2006 14:16

'Bloom, only born male transubstantial heir of Rudolf Virag (subsequently Rudolf Bloom) of Szombathely, Vienna, Budapest, Milan, London and Dublin....'

Ulysses: Episode 17 - Ithaca
http://www.online-literature.com/james_joyce/ulysses/17/

——— ——— ———

Joyce's Hungarian connection

"Joyce scholars, especially we Hungarians, have been tackling the question as to why Joyce created the character of Leopold Bloom/Virág Lipót: was Virág based on a real person, as are so many of Joyce's characters?" asked Takács, who added that, in Ulysses, Bloom's father is from Szombathely; why there, of all places?

Scholars in 2004 singled out the Blum House in Szombathely, whence pater familias Blum, a cloth merchant, traveled regularly on business to Trieste, where he knew Joyce, whom he engaged to teach English to his sons. "The Hungarian connections are nearly inexhaustible in Joyce, who had left Dublin, at the farthest corner of the western European world, and spent 11 years in Trieste, then considered the farthest eastern outpost of Europe, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Read more:
http://www.budapestsun.com/full_story.asp?ArticleId=%7B...Style

——— ——— ———

The Treaty of Trianon after WWI chopped Hungary into pieces...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon

Today Trieste is Italian, not Hungarian when Joyce was there

Transylvania is now Romanian, where Ligeti was born.

There are so many Irish-Hungarian links it can be astounding at times. And i don't think either the Irish nor the Hungarians even know about them for the most part.

'Trianon'

by mr. nostalgia Fri Jun 16, 2006 15:48

Just like the German Reich in 1945.

by redjade Fri Jun 16, 2006 16:11

mr nostalgia

its nothing to be afraid of, its just history - and worth learning if you want to know whats what today. no statements of support of empire has been given by me - you should see a doc for that knee of yours jerking like it does.

Not really a German comparison either - or rather, you can make the comparision but its a cheap throw away line that only reveals ignorance rather than shines light.

1.7 million hungarians live outside present day Hungarian borders.

about the same number of people live in northern ireland, and all of those could claim an irish passport if they wish.

but that would be a cheap comparison.

by mr. nostalgia Fri Jun 16, 2006 18:12

I'm afraid it's not just a Hungarian thing redjade. The Hapsburg Austro-Hungarian empire was a multi-cultural multi-ethnic Empire with various ethnic/linguistic groups widely dispersed throughout its territories. When it collapsed and was dismembered into a bundle of "nation-states" by the Allied Powers at the 1918 "peace" negotiations in Versailles, many of these ethnic groups found themselves living outside the borders of their respective nation-states.

There are for example German-speaking minorities from the former Hapsburg Empire in Romania e.g the Banat Swabians and Transylvanian Saxons and in Italy (South Tyrol - Alto Adige). Similarly, the terms of the Versailles Treaty in relation to the borders of the German Reich left German-speaking communities in Belgium (Eupen-Malmedy) and France (Alsace-Lorraine).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_as_a_minority_language

Austria - although nominally an independent state - is actually the German speaking rump of the Hapsburg Empire which aspired to political union with the German Republic in 1919,. However, this was prohibited by the Allied Powers under the terms of the Treaty of St. Germain. Likewise, the international treaty which established the Austrian republic after WWII expressly prohibits any form of political union with Germany. Again this was a condition imposed by the Allied Powers.

There would also in the normal course of events be large ethnic German communities in the western parts of the Czech Republic and Poland but these were ethnically cleansed from those regions with the tacit agreement of Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt after WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after...ar_II

Despite the parallels there is one small but crucial difference between the Hungarian and German situation:
Hungarians can indulge with impunity in their "irredentist" rantings against Trianon (their name for the Versailles agreement that dismembered their ancient Kingdom) and waffle on about all the ethnic Magyars living outside their national borders.
If Germans try the same thing they are immediately branded neo-Nazis and have the thought police descend upon them.

by Hungarian History Fri Jun 16, 2006 22:02

Surely you cannot compare imperialist Germany and nazi Germany with the Hungarian kingdom. One entity was aggressive and believed in conquest, the hungarians were victims of the arrogance of Germann ( I do include Austrian ) foreign policy.

by ar caoineadh Fri Jun 16, 2006 22:19

following on from the 15 and earlier 12 state EU which Haughey once quipped "made us the new unionists" has now almost completely encorporated the former Austro-Hungarian empire in its swathe of neo-liberal capitalist union. Slovenia received the go-ahead today to enter, only a bare war-torn rump of the Balkans being left out, and the other fliud states of the east Romania & Bulgaria awaiting their time. The congress of Vienna and the status quo of economic areas of the early 19th century combined with the technology of the late 20th.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I always thought there must have been other ways of making the Irish rich..................

link to interview between Ligeti and John Tusa transcript and audio file at page-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/johntusainterview/ligeti_tr...shtml
it was recorded at the same time as the Congo, Tusa still at BBC3 not yet head huncho at the Barbican.

by mr. nostalgia Fri Jun 16, 2006 22:25

Ah yes the poor peace-loving Hungarians ...
Well, if one studies the matter a little more closely one might find out that Hungary was probably the major military pillar of the "Austrian" Empire (admittedly this meant supplying a lot of the cannon fodder) responsible for keeping "order" in the Balkans.

As an independent state within its historical borders it would have had the potential to be a "major power" in the Balkans.

Since the policy of the Allied Powers (even to this day) was to prevent any independent "major power" in that arena, it seemed like a good idea to dismember Hungary in case it got ideas above its station in life (as perceived by the Allied Powers). Similar to what the US-NATO imperial war machine has done to Jugoslavia more recently (because the Serbs were a bit too cocky for their liking).

You can moan all you like about poor little innocent Hungary being a victim of the arrogance of Austrian or German foreign policy. The point is that Hungary fought as part of the Central Powers alliance in WWI and ended up on the losing side. The war agenda of the Allied Powers was to dismember the Austro-Hungarian Empire and that's what they did - and no quarter was given to Hungary.

As they say in German: Mitgegangen, mitgefangen, mitgehangen.