Ógra SF participate in Youth Debate

by Lenny Cochrane - Socialist Youth Fri May 05, 2006 15:44

Myself and another member of Socialist Youth participated in the debate (if you can call it that!) last Tuesday. The debate began with an address by one member of each group stating their aims and principles and position on the Good Friday Agreement (GFA). The Young Unionists stated they accepted the GFA and that they were setup to help maintain the union. OSF setup with republican ideals and believed in setting up a "32 county democratic socialist republic" and wished to promote the interests of "our" community (a non-sectarian comment if i ever heard one!!). The SDLP Youth was setup to fight for a united ireland and various other "we are more green than OSF" comments. Socialist Youth stated it was setup as a revolutionary youth group run by young people for young people. SY stated the campaigns it had been involved in in furthering the rights of working young people, such as taking up discrimination in the minimum wage, anti-secatarian dmonstrations and against the war on Iraq, we were the only group to specify any campaigning work we had done. SY also stated they welcomed anything which stopped the sectarian slaughter of working class people and on that basis the GFA was welcomed, but GFA institutionalised sectarianism and really only represented a (dis-)agreement at the top by the 4 major sectarian parties. SY was for a real peace process in the working class communities north and south that would tackle the social and economic deprivation in the country.

The debate ranged across a few non-controversial things such as "would you vote for a candidate who was not the same religion as you?" The topic of getting the Assembly up and running then came up with the 3 sectarian parties all saying it would be a good thing. SDLP Youth member said that Peter Hain was not from here, local people needed to be in power and also that Peter Hain had "English answers to Irish problems"!!!! A more xenophobic and nationalist comment it would be hard to think up. SY members stated it would make no difference if Assembly was up or not, the Assembly had followed the same pro-privatisation agenda of Messers Blair and Hain and had not tackled social and economic issues. All 3 parties had agreed to water charges in the Assembly, not to mention privatisation in the health sector. The 3 sectarian youth groups all agreed that it was those dastardly DUPers who were the obstacle to the Assembly up and running again. Interestingly a Young Unionist agreed that the Assembly would make exactly the same decisions as Hain, but he couldnt understand why people didnt see those decisions had to be made that way!!!

SY then accused the 3 other groups of being "sectarian" and that they werent interested in tackling the poverty indemic in our society. The Young Unionists said that the UUP had recently produced a document about tackling poverty and that SY should get its facts straight. (I'm sure working people all over the North will be happy they don't have to worry about poverty, the UUP have produced a document, hurrah!!!!) Of course all 3 sectarian groups proceeded to claim in pious voices "we aren't sectarian". Suffice to say the fact they are all based on one side of the community and have no interest whatsoever in appealing to the other side of the community went completely over their heads. The SDLP by having one protestant member who helped found the party are therefore not a sectarian party, utter nonsense. The SDLP and SDLP Youth are sectarian because of the policies they put forward which have no chance whatsoever of being accepted by working class people on the Shankill. The same goes for the UUP and OSF, i'm sure there are genuine people in all 3 groups who don't believe they are sectarian, but the fact of the matter is that Edward Carson felt he was not sectarian, but in reality he was.

All 3 groups proceeded to say SY were "unrealistic" "stupid" "idealistic" etc Particularily nauseating was the SDLP Youth saying they had to be "pragmatic" and "realistic" ie they had to be pro-privatisation and poodles for Blair and Ahern. No wonder they rounded on SY, SY is trying to build a revolutionary youth group that can tackle issues that really affect young people and not waffle like "im more green than you" or what colour poppies you wear. SY did a good job in showing the 3 sectarian parties for what they are and how they arent interested in the well being of all workers here.

Copies of the Socialist were sold before and after the debate.

by Topper Sun May 07, 2006 21:58

Fair play to SY for raising socialist arguments in that forum, seems to have annoyed the stoops anyway. But I think ye should be more careful in using the word "sectarian". SF, the SDLP, and the UUP are all "sectarian" in the sense that they base themselves exclusively on one community, and talk about defending the interests of that community against the other. But when people hear the word "sectarian", they usually associate it with hatred, with the view that one tribe should be kept in a subordinate position as second-class citizens. SF and the SDLP don't believe that, and even the UUP has (mostly) given up on it. It's wiser to use the term "communalist" to describe SF/SDLP/UUP, since they clearly identify with one community and one community alone. It'd be harder then for them to dismiss your arguments. Good to see somebody raising left-wing arguments in that forum anyway.

by Shauna - Ógra Shinn Féin Thu May 11, 2006 03:22

I think our general message, 'An Ireland of Equals' goes some way to set out our vision - time and again our elected activists speak on TV, radion, in fact any public platform including the press to lay out our political, egalitarian, non sectarian message, the Sinn Fein objectives are to achieve a 32 County Democratic Socialist Republic, where everyone is respected regardless of colour, creed and religion. If people out there listen that is half the battle, then to accept that view is another.

Sinn Féin and Ógra Shinn Féin have encountered this problem constantly , and we are constantly producing literature that lays out our political, egalitarian, non sectarian ideology, but as I said that is only half the battle, the biggest battle and the most crucial battle is to convince those disaffected people who are in disagreement with us that we genuinely are a party of all the people.

One major campaign that we are currently working on and engaging on is Unionist and Protestant outreach (obviously not all protestants are Unionists and we have many in the party). The outreach involves schemes like the contraversial Wreath Laying ceremony by Alex Maskey, the Sinn Féin Days of Remembrance for all those indigenious people who died in the conflict, Republican and Loyalist former prisoners coming together for discussion, to cross community projects and now Ógra engaging with young unionists and protestants who are involved in political or community work. We believe that it is only through direct engagement with these young people that we can break down any barriers that persist.

So I think its a many tiered project to break down this false portrayal of our ideology, through publicity (literature, speeches etc), to outreach, and then propably the biggest factor which is to show your effectiveness to the people by working for all the community on broader social issues, Sinn Fein and Ógra is breaking down this false portrayal day in day out, and are growing both as a party and electorally as a result, expect to have the same minority of extreme anti SF bashing views for the forseeable future, on TV, radio and even the Herald, but be confident that we are constantly going forward, constantly progressing and constantly getting stronger and as a result smashing the image which these people wish to portray of us!
Onwards to The Socialist Republic!

by Little Pen Sun May 21, 2006 18:04

OSF are either really good at deluding themselves or they are the most sinister organisation since the Hitler Youth (mmh nationalists and socialists???)

OSF are sectarian through and through - their older party was founded as a sectarian response to a difficult problem. Their literature is in general sectarian in nature. their members are just as sectarian as any member of the DUP.

OSF call for a "democratic socialist republic" sounds like drivel to me. When their political party in the south is willing to go into coalition with every capitalist party bar one it doesnt sound to socialist. when they celebrate their centenary of their party tracing back to 1905 meaning the party founded by arthur griffith - a dual monarchist, anti-semitic fool who is stated that imperialism and socialism were the same and that they should be avoided?????

you should really re-evaluate are you only socialist to tap into images of che guevara - a devout internationalist who was a marxist or are you really socialist and try to objectively change this world.

Although i would avoid the later it may damage your chances of getting a nice easy well paid councillor or MLA job in the future for this party you love oh so much!!

by tom Sun May 21, 2006 18:22

little pen i'm not a shinner but to say that all osf literature is misguided to say the least.
can you give us any examples of how its sectarian?
its very easy just to sit on your computer and preach about what other people are with nothing to back it up.

when there's a crowd of republicans that are actually trying to reach out to the other side of a community (laying wreaths/community work etc) its still not good enough for you.
i'm not a member so i won't comment on the coalition but as far as i'm aware i thought it was something at the ard fheis that said they wouldn't rule out coalition. its pointless even discussing that cos it wouldn't be on the cards for this coming election anyway.

by Socialist Youth Like A Motherfucker - Bolshie Youth Sun Jun 11, 2006 13:54 kick-out-the-jams at hotmail dot co dot uk

Aye Ogra Sinn Fein revolution indeed. Away and crawl back to your funders in Washington fecks sake - "we're based in the working-class" what a pile of pish, the IRA never gave a fuck what class they were blowing up and Sinn Fein introduced a pile of privitisation shite while in governemnt

Stick your hypocrisy up yer hole

by Ois - WSM Sun Jun 11, 2006 15:47

I disagree with a hell of a lot of SY's politics but fair play to them for engaging in this debate in the way they did. From the original post it seems bringing up class based anti-sectarian arguments really pissed off the shinners.