NIPSA General Council Elections

by Patrique (CD Reviewer Extraordinaire), Or Not. - - Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:44

Glad to see all's going superbly well with the disbanded(?) unsnivel servants over there at Henshaw House. You keep it up folks. Internal Divisions; nothing quite like it at a time when it's all comin down round ya!

B-E-G-J..

by Trade Unionist Wed Dec 20, 2006 22:42

Please accept my sincere apologies Mr Allerdyce. I should have clearly stated "Bolton Wanderer" as little Brian is all alone over there. Big up Stewarty!

by S Allardyce - Reebok Enterprises Ltd Wed Dec 20, 2006 20:06

Any further references to Bolton Wanderers are prohibited until such time as the appropriate fee is agreed with the above organisation.

by Hugh Murphy. - Sacked by my union ex Belfast Docker Wed Dec 20, 2006 18:11

From the outside it would seem that Trade Unionist is lucky that democracy exists in his union.

He should read the comments posted by my ex union chairman Bobby Dickey and thank his lucky stars that he didn't belong to my union.

Hugh Murphy

by Trade Unionist Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:20

Seems like the former Branch 8 activists who tried and failed to launch an undemocratic ( see "The Great Ballot Fiddle" by W Jhite and C Gowden et al) coup against the democratically elected leadership of Branch 8 have now lost their voices.

Its a pity that they can't sing songs like "It's all gone quiet over there" ie. in Bolton! Or act in that fairytale, 'Snowy White and the 7 votes'?

by my only crime is disloyalty Tue Dec 19, 2006 16:07

Dashing through the snow
In a one horse bolton sleigh
O'er the members we go
Laughing all the way
Coins in pockets ‘ping’
Members purse strings tight
What fun it is to laugh and sing
A sell out song tonight

Oh, jingle Brian, jingle Brian
Private all the way
Oh, what fun it is to work
In a one horse bolton sleigh
Jingle Brian, jingle Brian
Private all the way
Oh, what fun it is to work
In a one horse bolton sleigh

by (Im alright) Jack Mon Dec 18, 2006 20:53 My Ivory Tower

My answers to the above questions are:-

1. No true and honest union member would help in the privatisation in any way of the said body as:
a) they sell their members (and soul) down the river,or should I say "the Thames" and send them to the dole queue with such a selfish view and action.
b) it goes against the basic core fundamentals of a trade union.

2. No true and honest union member would have a sectarian view as:
a) it would be hypocrytical to do so as they would be shunned by their union as a facist
b) again, it goes against the basic core fundamentals of a trade union.

Allegations like these are very serious and if its the same person who has been perceived to have undertaken both of the above, they would have to seriously ask themselves "Why am I in a union?"
This person doesnt go by the christian name of Adolf do they??

by broken record - new seekers Sun Dec 17, 2006 02:00

Geoff , Geoff come out,come out where ever you are is he hiding in the kitchen--------NO is he hiding in the larder--------NO
Maybe he is hiding in the .............................. .................................

10 votes to anyone who can guess where geof is hiding

before you ask Jenni no you cannot use them at the next election

Brian are you still collecting the AIR MILES ??????????????????

by straight not curious Sat Dec 16, 2006 13:27

i hope all these posts by geoff,brian and jenni etc are not being sent during core time? as they are well aware that they are not ALLOWED to be on the inter net other than at lunch time or after work.

by straight not curious Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:58

two quistons
1 what are union members opinions of so called activists or ex activists aiding and abbetting the privitisation of csa jobs and in doing so taking temp promotion?
in answering this quistion you are not allowed to mention the following phrase judas,30 pieces of silver

2 what are union members opinion of a union member bringing their religious bigotry into the trade union movement and would you vote them into anything other than the sewer from where they come?

by Mustapha Lager - Crescent Moon Resources Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:50

Relax,brothers and sisters.Allah will provide.You must spend more time reading the Koran and appreciating the wonder of His universe,instead of obsessing about petty material concerns.

by (Im alright) Jack Fri Dec 15, 2006 00:59 My Ivory Tower

This article was published in Scotland but im sure it relates to your situation Patrique.

It would be wrong of me to say this article is 100% fact, as it has since been stated the new agency is a non government department and NI civil servants are employed by the NICS. Hence the quote from Mr Campbell-Nimmo "We don't know how many staff will be required to operate this new body" is incorrect, as you are employed by the NICS and have NO chance of being placed in this new "Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission (CMEC)"

If this has happened to branches 7 & 8, the relality of it all is that it will happen to the rest of us.

by (Im alright) Jack Thu Dec 14, 2006 23:12 My Ivory Tower

Patrique, is there any truth in the rumour that Branch 8 (and 7) will not be around in 2009?

If thats true, its a shame as NIPSA are losing a substantial membership to the dole queues as I dont believe that number of members can be absorbed into other departments what with the pre budget speech mentioning something about the Job Centre being privatised also...................Did anyone else hear that near the end of Gobby Browns speech or were they just listening out for how much beer and fags will increase or whether diesel maybe hit by a stealth tax and they cant drive their 4x4's 300 yards to the corner shop? I heard it!!!!!!!!

With the amount of people potentially facing the dole, it reminds me of the stories my father used to tell me about the "Suffering Ducks" in the late 40's which he witnessed first hand.

If those branches are being "put out of business" I wonder which of us branches will be next to be sniped off?

The time for solidarity and action is now unless NIPSA doesnt want to end up going the same way as the dodo bird. Let this be a warning that NO-ONE is safe. "Too late, too late shall be the cry"

Its a shame if its true about the end of 7 and 8 as I was starting to believe Patrique may not be a complete spacer after all and talk (a bit of) sense..................Scrub that last comment as im getting absorbed in the christmas spirit what with peace and good will to all mankind, its better to say he keeps us all on our toes.

by patrique - nipsa Sun Dec 10, 2006 17:28

Luv it, brings back memories.

by Aois Discreidimh Tue Dec 05, 2006 22:12

The whole place is seething with sedition
it's Branch 8 through & through
all the boys are joining their local unit
and the password's Branch 8 too
Well their Military Wing just sent me a timebomb in the mail
and i'm shaking in my shoes as i'm sending out my views
said the man from the NIPSA News

every bird upon my word
is singing well, i'm a (Branch 8) rebel
every hen in jail is laying hand grenades over there sir, i do declare sir
and every cock in DARD'S stock is singing triumph to Branch 8
and it wouldnt be surprising if there'd be another rising
said the man from NIPSA News.

by Optimist - nipsa Fri Dec 01, 2006 19:42

though i am surprised i did expect more from you, though i suppose we all did when we elected you as secretary. i don't think the members will make that mistake again! as for your comment on anti - sectarianism no idea what you are trying to say, seems you aren't very good at explaining yourself! i'll look forward to another one / two line response seems about all you are capable of - god help branch 8! perhaps its not fair to lay all branch 8's problems at your door but we were strong before you were secretary and it is your job to steer the branch so admit you weren't up to the job and resign and maybe its not too late for branch 8 to get back to the strong branch it once was.

The above is a post from May.

Patrique was re-elected unopposed. Not one voice was raised against.

by Al Satian(deceased) - Trotstalkers Anonymous Sat Jun 03, 2006 14:39

Q:What's the difference between a dead SP member lying in the road and a dead SWP member lying in the road?A:None.The queue of cars waiting to make sure is the same length. By the way, the General Council does not have anything to do with Civil Service pay.The Civil Service Group Executive Committee deals with that,directed by the membership.The sensible way forward this year is surely a succession of principled public suicides,involving staged self-immolations by members of this democratically elected body at the City Hall-starting with the Chairperson,who must lead from the front.

by Apothegm - Follow like sheep in a wolfs clothes Thu Jun 01, 2006 13:36

What's the difference between a dead SWP member on a street and a dead dog on the street?

There are skid marks in front of the dog

This of course is only humour which is the bedrock of the working classes. However it should be noted that in the general council that has been elected this year there are a distinct lack of "left" members. This is going to mean that this year we will probably be accepting a very poor pay rise of 2% as there will be no call to arms. all out strike was the right way to go last year but I would be surprised to see this again this year. Heres hoping.

by Patrique - nipsa Fri May 26, 2006 00:42

Spent many enjoyable nights in Conservative clubs in England, they identified with the real working classess, hand pumped real ale, well kept snooker tables, good entertainment like folk music, Irish Traditional, easy listening singer song writers, small Jazz or blues ensemble. The Labour clubs were very much gassy beer, strippers, racist commedians and damaged pool tables.

Don't like cucumber, celery is better, love Earl Grey tea, and I have played croquet, but it pales beside crown green bowls.

As for overtime, I don't even do encores when playing music, not even in the Conservative clubs.

by Ralph Cholmondeley-Fetherstonhaugh - pronounced Rafe Chumley-Fanshaw Thu May 25, 2006 21:12

I say,you chayps-steady on,what?No point in getting hot under the bally old collar,hey,what?P'raps Paydy,Geoffers and the others should sort the whole thing out ovah a game of croquet down at the Conservative Club,maybe hev a cup or two of Earl Grey and a cucumbah sandwich?Whoevah works the most ovahtime pays the jolly old bill.What could be fairer than that?

by Patrique - nipsa Mon May 22, 2006 19:59

The Uncivil Servant has nothing to do with Branch 8 or collective responsibility, but do respond to direct attacks from TWO members of branch 8, SIX names.

Read all of the threads carefully, and check the names of those making personal attacks, and those defending themselves.

Apart from that, as stated some ten threads earlier, before my retirement, I agree with everything Brian says. Shame indeed.

by Brian stewart Mon May 22, 2006 13:09

I wonder what happened to the “collective responsibility” that Patrique went on so much about, when Branch 8 agreed as a committee to draw a line under all that happened in the last 6 months, for the sake of their members, now we have people from that very same committee Patrique included all talking about what has happened in possibly the strongest branch NIPSA had ever seen.

Now with what has happened in these threads, I doubt they are now.

What has gone on here is a disgrace, not only to the branch committee but also the branch 8 members.

I am glad people with conviction from branch 8 are able to put their real names beside their comments, ok there is only 3 of us, the rest just want to cause further resentment with Branch 8.

I am no longer on branch 8 committee (it was personal reasons for me leaving, nothing to do with the last 6 - 9 months)

Do I assume that it is with the committees agreement that issues that concern the committee are being transmitted on this website. If not then all committee reps should desist or take it to an all members meeting to decide whether certain reps are bringing the collective responsibility into disrepute. What is it again “if you don’t agree with the committee decision then resign”, all this of course is based on a government cabinet not a trade union constitution

by Ernest Trotter - SP Goat Lab Sun May 21, 2006 15:06

Time for change!Time for a fighting democratic union!Down with this!Smash that!Campaign,campaign,campaign!Overthrow capitalism!A worker's wage for all(except SP members who deserve more)!Revolution now!Burn all Saabs and Rovers!Fight!Fight!Fight!Right?Right?Right?Night!Night!Night!

by Spinoza - Chantelle Houghton Think Tank Sun May 21, 2006 14:20

Q:What's the difference between a)a typical Trot,and b)political intelligence in the context of the Socialist Party? A:One's a moron, the other's an oxymoron.Only sleggin'!

by The masses - Br.8 and everywhere else Sun May 21, 2006 13:58

'Pol-it-ic-al int-ell-igence'?Doh..........wassat,then?

by Referee - nipsa Wed May 17, 2006 18:25

As a referee can I say this. Patrique retired from this thread on Monday, saying it was OK to have a bit of slegging but once personal attacks and cases were brought in, well, it makes the union look bad. Now all sorts are agreeing with him.

And nowhere that I can see does Patrique make reference to anyone called Jenny.

You do realise that these posts could be by anyone, do you. I think Patrique retired when someone else used his name.

If you must squabble online, at least try to get your facts right.

by By Any Means Necessary Wed May 17, 2006 16:13

this thread is a disgrace to the activism and political intelligence of trade unionists.

Fair play to those activists who went out and stood on the picket line, during the fiasco of 2003, they stood in solidarity for the rights of their fellow workers. The environment in the CSA for workers was / is terrible, and those activists who put their heads over the barracades and got the word out, in the face of management careerism and indifference. You know who you are, that sort of commitment and dedication to the membership does not diminish with one set back ( 2003 ).

The self seeking waffle and internal squabbling on this thread is a sad reflection on the revolutionary potential of the trade union movement.

Get over your personal gripes comrades, ditch your egos and unite in fighting for equality, justice and solidarity.with in NIPSA....lets start in branch eight.

by amother member - nipsa Wed May 17, 2006 11:52

Member - it seems you do care, quite a lot about branch 8 and jenni in particular. In fact you sound like one in the same - remarkable that!
Anyway you are right branch 8 are 'small fish in a big pond'. That pond consists of civil servants, health and education workers, irish ferries workers, migrant workers,post officer workers etc etc, in short, workers. Branch 8 and it's members realise that. Do you? It would seem that the pond you refer to jenni is the electoral pond. Enough said.

by a member - remember them? - nipsa Wed May 17, 2006 02:03

why do branch 8 think they rule the bloody world and turn a union discussion on the GC elections into a debate about their internal politics???
Wake up and smell the coffee - the members (again remeber them) don't care about branch 8 - u are a very small fish in a big pond.
You have openly discussed your internal matters on this web page - have you no respect for your members or indeed the union you profess to be such a huge part of??
You are a disgrace to Nipsa - especially you Patrique and your allies who seem to take great pleasure from slagging a fellow committe member Jenni, who as yet has not been on this site ( or perhaps has under another name who knows) but i'll give the benefit of the doubt this time
Sort yourselves out and leave your internal rows where they belong - within the branch not here
WE DON"T CARE!!!!!

by stroppy Tue May 16, 2006 23:43

I believe Geoff clarified this matter at 13.13 on 9th May not sure what you are looking for Carmel.

by Carmel Tue May 16, 2006 22:48

Awk! I was half way through reading the other interesting article by Geoff where he rants at Patrique, then seems to apologise after he realises that he wouldn’t be the trade unionist he is today without him. They seem to have taken it off.

Poor Geoff he must be under so much pressure, perhaps that is what’s making him so unstable. I also noted that Stroppy had mentioned that Geoff was ‘Torn From Council’, and had to leave early from executive committee meetings. Could this be explained in more detail Stroppy?

by Barney - CSA Tue May 16, 2006 22:44

Hello, my name is Barney and I am employed in the CSA. I agree with Geoff that the staff should be treated as voters, instead of all this crap the union give me about "members" having rights. One minute they are crying about managing attendance, the next it is their report, or special leave, or five o'clock cover. Geoff is right, why can't they just vote twice a year and forget all about working conditions and pay. I blame Patrique and all those other reps for that nonsense.

Now I know Patrique would be horrified if he was actually ELECTED onto CSGE, but please, could you all vote for him and get him out of the CSA office, where he is constantly asking for members rights to be upheld, the right to be consulted by management, and defending people when they are harassed by management. The man is a menace.

Isn't the vote good enough for these people? Why can't all union reps be like Geoff, just get their votes and stuff their rights?

by Sunbed Sam - nipsa Tue May 16, 2006 20:54

As a Branch 8 member I agree with Geoff. I think "All Power Corrupts" is really Patrique, and he is about to find out how true that saying is.

by Nipsa 'member' - nipsa Tue May 16, 2006 17:26

Geoff I prefer to think of myself as a nipsa MEMBER rather than a VOTER . I understand that my vote is probably the only thing that counts to you, but be assured my membership, to me anyway, goes much further. You remind me a bit of Wylie Coyote, when the only thing he saw when looking at Roadrunner was a juicy cooked bird he wanted to devour. The only thing you see when you look at members is their vote. Rest assured you won't be getting mine. Someone who refers to individual cases to score points needs to reexamine their trade union values before they put themselves forward for anything.

by Geoff Cowden - Branch 8 member Tue May 16, 2006 13:14

Would all these Branch "activists" who have entered the debate please actually name themselves. It is disappointing that you all like to hide behind pseudonyms, is this because you are afraid to be named on a site which is read by NIPSA voters and you are all up for election to CSGE. Or could it be that you are all different parts of Patriques ever increasing split personality?

I mean there is even someone writing under my name on the NIPSA pay dispute comment sheet, this despite me not having access to the internet at home. I never learned how to fill in a facility sheet as all Health and Safety anyway. there were too many other things to do to take the piss out of hard fought union conditions.

by Another rep - nipsa Tue May 16, 2006 00:51

I too am a member of branch 8 committee (male the last time I looked) and am assuming that 'all power corrupts', or Jenni as she is otherwise known by the branch, has forgotten she is on branch 8 committee. Easy done I suppose, given that she does precious little from what I can see. Either she's a complete drama queen or has caught 'mad geoff disease'. Wonder how that happened? The truth is the committee work together and will continue to do so despite these myths pedalled to the contrary.

by Neutral - nipsa Tue May 16, 2006 00:27

I too support Paddy. As one of the ordinary members encouraged to write to headquarters to complain after conference 2004, I was glad to see that Paddy carried on and restored the right of our members and all others to be heard at conference. Some of our other reps became politicians and hid away incase they lost votes.

As for calling him arrogant, a three year trade union veteran who is a member of General Council would think it arrogant if a jumped up 35 year trade union newcomer was telling them the rules.

But to live up to my name, I do support Geoff in that we should wipe out those wasters in Branch 7 by having just one branch in CSA.

by Princess Nipsa - Nipsa Mon May 15, 2006 23:24

I am a female and a member of the Branch 8 committee, 99% of whom support Patrique.

Here are some examples of his arrogance. When headquarters ask for members views on things like Promotion, he actually asks the members and sends their comments to Harkin House, not his own.

When there are disputes on NCT or the helpline, he asks the members concerned, and forwards there comments to management, not his own ideas.

He had wee sessions with each rep, individually, asking if they were happy, wanted to do more, less, did they need any help, that type of thing.

He sends a monthly report to all members, a new thing for Branch 8 secretary. He even talks to members and reps, which is new as well.

If this is arrogance, I for one wish there were more "Arrogant" people in NIPSA.

These personal attacks show both of you in a poor light, and are only damaging to yourselves, not Patrique or the branch.

And stop calling him PatREEK. He may be a hunk, but he is not a mountain.

by Patrique - nipsa Mon May 15, 2006 20:25

A point of clarification. As I said earlier, I did not post the "sorry Brian" bit, that was an impersonator. Brian is not female for a start.

So sorry, Brian, it was not me.

Adieu, au revoir, slan, goodbye.

by Patrique - nipsa Mon May 15, 2006 19:53

I am now retiring from this enjoyable thread frequented by "sad wasters" because I realise that some chaps are now discussing private and confidential personal cases on the web.

Apart from that, while I do this tongue in cheek because I love arguing and ribbing because I am good at it, some people could begin to believe that others were serious, doubtful I admit, and if that were the case we would be making a laughing stock out of the whole union.

For better or worse, for richer or poorer, NIPSA are my union, and do not deserve to be held to ridicule by the actions of a few.

Toodle pip.

by Patrique - nipsa Mon May 15, 2006 19:30

Incidently, Branch 8 received many e-mails of thanks and support from our colleagues in PCS for our principled stance taken by our helpline during the recent strike. Another victory for the workers.

Some people may have missed this, I mean what's a work place triumph compared to a vote for CSGE?

I shall ask PCS not to have industrial action in the run up to CSGE elections, what were they thinking of?

Ask around, someone will tell you about our industrial action last week.

by Patrique - nipsa Mon May 15, 2006 19:24

Who wrote the above? Impersonators. I meant to ask "All Power" what they thought about the startling news that the Good Old US of A is about to renew all ties with Libya. Any thoughts?

by Patrique - nipsa Mon May 15, 2006 19:19

Sorry, Brian.

by all power corrupts - branch 8 Mon May 15, 2006 19:08

good to see such a lenghty and detailed response from you Patreek,obviously you feel so arrogant that you can't even accept criticism from a member when it is duely deserved. it is indeed this arrogance which has caused the problems in branch 8. as a member don't be too sure that they will all back you or indeed even the majority! i am also not part of any continuity branch 8 or anything else just a member who has seen how you have destroyed our once strong branch. if you think that doesn't even warrant a response then it only serves to confirm that my earlier analysis was correct - though i am surprised i did expect more from you, though i suppose we all did when we elected you as secretary. i don't think the members will make that mistake again! as for your comment on anti - sectarianism no idea what you are trying to say, seems you aren't very good at explaining yourself! i'll look forward to another one / two line response seems about all you are capable of - god help branch 8! perhaps its not fair to lay all branch 8's problems at your door but we were strong before you were secretary and it is your job to steer the branch so admit you weren't up to the job and resign and maybe its not too late for branch 8 to get back to the strong branch it once was.

by Patrique - nipsa Mon May 15, 2006 18:37

Oh dear, The Continuity Branch 8 membership must have grown to three now.

I feel safe that the members will support my Anti-Sectarian stance.

by all power corrupts - branch 8 Mon May 15, 2006 18:11

i am a member of branch 8 who often thought of joining the committee but i would rather stick pins in my eyes that get involved with all the bitching that seems to be going on.
branch 8 used to be a strong branch that the members were proud to be a part of but in the past couple of months it seems to have gone to the dogs completely! there even appears to be censorship of branch reps on what they can or can't say to members its absolutely ridiculous. From what i can see it all started when Patreek became secretary he has provided no leadership and brought branch 8 to its knees and from the comments he has posted on this site i for one certainly think it is time he stepped down - i am certainly not alone in thinking that.
Patreek - "all power corrupts...."
You've got away with enough and done enough damage!
If you truely are a trade unionist at heart then walk away for the sake of branch 8 before you destroy it completely!

by K - M.I.B. Sun May 14, 2006 20:10

Oh please! Is this the back bench committee that speaks for no-one but 4 people, and has TFC's hand up their ass?

by The Men In Grey Suits - GNT 2006 Backbench Committee Sun May 14, 2006 14:42

There is a view abroad that the time has come for an end to the petty in-fighting,clown shows at Conference,increasingly deranged outpourings on the internet and public perception of the CSA as a lunatic asylum.It therefore falls to this committee,Paydy,to ask you to stand down forthwith.There is a new breed of activists established now-younger,brighter,more go-ahead and more electorally popular with the Nipsa membership at large who must lead the way to a brand new dawn.Listen to and learn from these marvellous young people,Paydy,and take notes.We'll make a trade unionist out of you yet,old fellow!But mark well our warning-these young people are,in a very real sense,the Future.

by The Giant Rat Of Sumatra Sun May 14, 2006 13:45

Q:What's the difference between a Trot and a hot air balloon? A:There's a limited amount of hot air in a balloon. Only sleggin'!

by K - M.I.B. Tue May 09, 2006 23:49

Yes indeed it was dealt with accordingly Patrique, and very competently I might add. But that still doesn't excuse the low life(s) that were involved in bringing the branch, indeed nipsa into disrepute. But then again perhaps that has already taken place e.g. conference 2004 motion 100. Could I ask if I get enough people to stand up,clap and cheer, do I get a life membership? Perhaps this is what the alleged chief suspect has been after all along?

K

by Patrique - nipsa Tue May 09, 2006 22:38

On rereading K-MIB I notice that he/she seems to be pointing the finger at the person who would have benefitted, if the deed had not been discovered. I refuse to go down that line. In all the best detective stories that person may be chief suspect, but this is real life, and show me the evidence? An unsavoury incident, competently dealt with, to the best of our ability. We do not have a H.Poirot in the Branch.

by Patrique - nipsa Tue May 09, 2006 22:30

Dear Ordinary member,

There were certain irregularities in a vote in Branch 8. As Branch Secretary I, and the committee, far from condoning this, set up an investigating committee. We also passed a motion that if the culprit/s were found, they should be asked to resign, probably from the union.

The investigating committee were unable to prove anything against anyone. Now, as branch secretary I could not begin a witch hunt and start victimising members. We are democrats in Branch 8.

To me the offence warrents a public flogging, but I am not accusing anyone, because it would be impossible to prove. Therefore I am at odds with K-mib or whatever, who professes to know the truth, but obviously cannot prove anything either.

Perhaps I even did the deed to prevent my preferred candidate from winning? Highly unlikely, where's the motive you ask, but this theory was actually put forward.

In short, Ordinary, far from condoning this I totally condemn such actions. Perhaps you should suggest what I do next, what action do I take against an unknown perpetrator?

by K - M.I.B. Tue May 09, 2006 22:21

Please see my entry on the "nipsa pay dispute" today

Ta

K

by Ordinary Member - Nipsa Tue May 09, 2006 22:07

Is electoral fraud endemic in Branch 8 or not?Since this allegation was made,there has been a deafening silence from the person accused and the branch secretary,who seems pre-occupied with talking about himself.Any branch official who turns a blind eye to corruption destroys the integrity of his own branch.Now that this issue is out in the open and a matter of public concern we, the ordinary members,demand the truth.Speak now, or risk the screaming,shrieking,foot stomping,water throwing,be-suited wrath of some buffoonish apologist for scabs working overtime on the Conference floor.Or could that be someone else I'm thinking of?

by Patrique - nipsa Tue May 09, 2006 19:10

And obviously I do not think that all of you are sad wasters, I have always encouraged debate between members, and always accepted the democratic decision when the talking was over. We are all in the one union after all, comrades in arms, albeit with differing opinions.

by Patrique - nipsa Tue May 09, 2006 19:06

Perhaps I should have mentioned that the "tirade" was many of us slegging Geoff for now being part of the "enemy", because we have always been critical of CSGE, and once again Geoff was the mainstay. Perhaps the slegging went to far for Geoff, who left the table, and was apologised to on numerous occasions.

by Patrique - nipsa Tue May 09, 2006 19:02

And to think I wasn't even including Geoff in my comments about election madness.

I should also point out that the person who was allegedly upset, denied all knowledge of it when I personally bought her flowers the next day, having been misled that she was upset.

The branch 8 activist who went to work on a Saturday was an Alternative Working Pattern member of staff, and they worked one Saturday in four. He was not working overtime. And at least Geoff is supporting me in saying that we had a picket line to try to stop overtime. I have already praised those who manned it, especially Geoff who was the mainstay, in an earlier post.

by Geoff Cowden - Branch 8 Tue May 09, 2006 14:13

As one of the former US activists that Patrique refers to, I would like to say that the reason I left was not to pursue some sort of election campaign after being elected to CSGE. Patrique is well aware of the real reason I left, the reason is the amount of victimisation I have witnessed and been subject to since the three Branch 8 members got elected last year. One prominent US and B8 member in fact in my humble opinion started this the very day of my election last year at the dinner table when he consistently tried to get at me about being elected to CSGE. Instead of Branch 8 being united in their most important election victory this "activist" did in fact ensure that one of my fellow electees had to leave the table virtually in tears because of his 20-30 minute tirade against me. I mean this person left the table even though it was not directed at them but at me, that is how bad it was. Green eyed monster, who can tell? Leaving the US certainly did not change my outlook on what trade unionism is about. My views didn't change. As I was tipped off about these comments here on Indymedia I felt the need to come on here and using my own name clear a few things up. There are worse things that have happened that I won't go into but as I have added my say that is all I need. I won't be sitting on this site at 2am talking to other like minded wasters, I have a life.

I am also glad to hear that the US don't support overtime as when I was a member during the 40 week 2003 industrial action fiasco I didn't see too many of my "activist" colleagues dragging themselves out of their beds at 6.30am to stand beside me on Saturday morning picket line every week, in fact one prominent US and SWP member actually crossed this picket line because "it was his day in". But enough of this, I believe I have said enough on the subject of my leaving the US.

And please remember the old adage if it looks like a scab and smells like a scab, then its a scab.

As for stroppy, I have spoke at many CSGE meetings unlike others I could mention so I hope I wasn't being referred to in your comment about leaving early. Any time I left early it would have been at 4.30 or 5 to pick up my child and you would do well to perhaps read up on family friendly policies or perhaps I need to justify the fact that no-one else could do it for me as we do to personnel here in the CSA.

by King Tickle Toby - OTGDTG(Office of the Trotfinder General and Deputy,etc) Tue May 09, 2006 10:33

Q:What's the difference between the Socialist Party and the Taliban? A: One is a universally despised band of tunnel vision fundamentalist zealots noted for their fanatical viciousness and intolerance.The other is a bunch of guys with beards in Afghanistan.Only sleggin`!

by Patrique - nipsa Sun May 07, 2006 00:09

I was there, with the Branch 8 banner. If you look at the thread on the parade, in the comments, I was part of that band afterwards in the Duke of York, and someone called Patrique says we were great. Hell of a coincidence that, eh, having the same name as me.

by Above the Parapet - NIPSA Sat May 06, 2006 01:04

Will we see yourself at May day tomorrow???

by Patrique - nipsa Fri May 05, 2006 22:23

Thank you, Mr Parapet, I have to use this forum to speak, they won't let me at Conference, another 7 motions ruled out this year, all copied straight out of the NIPSA constitiution.

I am actually considered to be the looney left, the type that would lose people votes, but if CSGE were to work together, they actually might achieve something. Lets face it, if the right come up with a good idea, accept it, and support it, and vice versa.

I must go and plot my alliance with the right now.

by Above the Parapet - NIPSA Fri May 05, 2006 21:31

Love it Love it,
who are you people? only Patrique seems to have a a name and seems to be making points rather than winging about Right and Left.
Love it so much i am going to call myself not above the Parapet.

by Brer Rabbitte - Champagne Socialist Collective Wed May 03, 2006 10:17

Q:What's the difference between the Socialist Party and the Ku Klux Klan? A:One requires blind hatred of all non-whites.The other requires blind hatred of all non-Trots.So,Trots-make yourselves more lovable and capable of connecting with a greater number of the human race overnight by transferring your allegiance to the KKK.Only sleggin'!

by Rogue Wed May 03, 2006 09:54

Thanks Patrique for the clarification. To "Stroppy" The proverb about "Pots and Kettles" spring to mind. You talk of the vitriolic attacks of TFC. Yet in this entire thread you haven't made one constructive comment. Instead you have concentrated all your efforts in your own brand of, "smug vitriol".

by stroppy Tue May 02, 2006 23:28

Very helpful of A to let us know about apathy in NIPSA and heartening that he/she acknowledges that current activists (including one presumes RYU and US activists) have done good work ..If this is an inclusive plaudit then it is a welcome change from the vitriolic attacks on RYU in the TFC bulletin.
A has not however outlined the 'left' agenda of TFC which would put clear water between it and the so called rightwingers in RYU. Perhaps he/she has not yet got a steer from above or maybe he/she has belatedly realised that Branch Funds and election of officials is not the stuff of revolution.

by Patrique - nipsa Tue May 02, 2006 22:32

Mr Rogue, Peter Hain was opening a new building in Belfast in Bedford Street, we got wind of it, and arrived with the infamous banner and placards, and had to wait about an hour until he arrived. The TV cameras were there to cover the event, the building being open, not us. We approached Mr Hain, who give him his due, stopped to engage in debate. Unfortunately he was giving us the old "under the tories" bit, until we pointed out to him that our votes didn't really count in Westminster, and Labour couldn't lose any votes here because they do not organise here, which is why we were not being paid in the first place. He then proceeded to give us the old "I have lots of sympathy bit" and we intend to look at pay scales and the rest.

He did visibly flinch however when we told him that this was apartheid, as we were the poorest paid public servants in Britain.

TV obviously cut out our good bits, but many seem to have seen this on TV, and in a world sadly reduced to the adoration of the famous and celebrities, obviously some of our enemies took the huff.

Dear Stroppy, you've made me feel all emotional. And never judge a book by its cover, or indeed by popular fantasy.

by A - TFC NIPSA Tue May 02, 2006 14:06

I would like to make a brief comment about perceived apathy amongst members in NIPSA.

While I would agree that at times the day to day work in branches is still an uphill battle it is worth remembering that in the last year literally thousands of NIPSA members have attended meetings and been involved in strike action.
Civil Service pay strikes, Water Service strikes, education strikes all involved thousands, the pension’s strikes involved Local Government workers, Housing Executive, education and sections of the Civil Service. These are not signs of apathy rather they are signs of growing militancy.

Although the growth of militancy is not a straight line and is pushed back by defeats in general the development of trade unions activity and membership participation has been an upwards curve over the last number of years.

There is still a major issue of membership involvement in day to day issues and the redevelopment of an activist’s base in the union. This will be propelled forward by the work of current activists on the ground, the impact of events on the membership and a developing realisation amongst members that they must actively intervene in the union to change it.

Current NIPSA activists deserve considerable praise for the work that they have done over the last number of years in developing the union. NIPSA has come a considerable way in the last few years, this is not a time to be down hearted, it is a time to redouble our activity and build for the future.

by Rogue Tue May 02, 2006 09:57

Patrique, You seemed to have needed to get a lot off your chest, I hope it has been theraputic and you feel better. Could you clarify one thing for me. What was your reference to ambushing Peter Hain? I'm not sure what event you were talking about, so I lost your point on that one. I agree with your point on the need for some kind of branch development strategy. Apathy in the Union is a huge problem. every meeting, event, or rally/demo seem to have the usual suspects involved.

by stroppy Tue May 02, 2006 01:23

Thank you Patreek very informative so you are not ILP but non aligned I thought you would have felt at home with Pat but obviously not . You were rather close to being elected for GC so hang on in there as US need someone who can talk at committee level unlike the possibly ex US CSGE members whose main verbal contribution, as I understand it, was to make an apology for leaving committee meetings early.
A obviously has to consult with HQ before he/she can outline the 'left' agenda of TFC should make interesting reading.

by Patrique - NIPSA Mon May 01, 2006 16:18

Stroppy, South Antrim Westminster poll. Either David Burnside or Willie McCrea was going to win. Mr Burnside, an old colleague of mine in the NUS, is only interested in Mr Burnside, and is a bit of a bigot, in my humble opinion. Willie actually managed to get an awful lot of things done for me when I approached him on behalf of my local Community association. In recent elections I have voted Alliance, DUP, PUP, and Socialist Environmental Alliance. As fot the SD and LP, please. Incidently I am not in the Irish labour Party, the party which houses our well known RYU candidate, they only think I am, as a natural progression from Democratic Left.

"A-TFC" makes many valid and interesting points, and deserves a fair hearing. However I do agree that TFC supporting the right is unlikely to happen, whatever the cause. As for me, if the right wing needed my support to deliver a 10% pay rise my response would be "when do I start". NIPSA needs to start deliveriong to the members, and I don't really care who the postman is.

by stroppy Mon May 01, 2006 11:23

A just what is the right wing agenda that those on the CSGE and GC who are not TFC are pushing . It seems to most people that you are right wing if you are not in TFC. Spare us the fighting democractic bullshit just explain how your agenda is left wing.
Hmmm a very principled position to take up or apply for seconded posts which are filled on a basis your group is totally opposed to. Would a truly principled position not be to shun non elected posts until the members have endorsed elections at Conference. Maybe you should put a motion to Conference on the matter the members are bound to agree are'nt they. While you are at it a principled position would also be to put a motion to Conference that all management posts in the Civil Service should be elected otherwise people might think that TFC are hypocrites.

by A - TFC NIPSA Mon May 01, 2006 10:12

Stroppy

Clearly you misunderstand the views of Time For Change.

Time For Change considers someone to be a right wing member of NIPSA if they advance a right wing programme in the union. I would not doubt that there are right wingers in the union who are members of ‘left’ organisations outside the union but that says nothing about their position in NIPSA.

I am not sure who Stroppy is referring to when he says

“a leading member of RYU has been involved in left politics for years.”

I can however assure Stroppy that TFC does indeed offer solidarity to others in the NIPSA even if we consider their trade union views right wing. If ANY member of NIPSA finds themselves under attack from management we will do all in our power to defend them. There are of course concrete examples of this which Stroppy must be well aware off.

On the issue of secondments.

Seconded posts in NIPSA are full time positions given to the union by the employer; these posts are filled by interview, normally for a three year period. Seconded Officers hold an incredible amount of power in their hands. They have an advantage over other members in that they are full time in their posts, they can not be removed from office by members and they can control information reaching members.

TFC believes that all Seconded posts should be elected on a regular basis. Where the opportunity has existed TFC, along with others, has successfully argued to reject secondments and has argued for a facility time agreement instead.
In the case mentioned above by Sloppy a member of TFC has taken a seconded post but that member did argue for the post to be elected. Elections require a change to the union’s Departmental constitution. The necessary rule change was agreed, in principle, by the Departmental Committee but the new rule has yet to be implemented. Hopefully it will be agreed by the CS Exec without opposition. This seems to me to be a principled position!

by stroppy Sun Apr 30, 2006 21:17

A from TFC just cant stop telling fibs. He/she rants on about developing solidarity but shuns so called right wingers within NIPSA even though a leading member of RYU has been involved in left politics for years. It is good however to see TFC taking a principled stand on the issue of elections for seconded posts no way would anyone fromTFC go for or take a non elected seconded post. Oops too late the message does not seem to have got through to a number of leading members of TFC why even an ex president from their group has taken up a non elected seconded post. It is quite clear nobody from TFC is going to die for their principles I think a campaign against those in the group selling out on principle is needed.
Patreek I am worried that you are a tad schizophrenic you want to join Alliance , you vote for the DUP should you not support your sister party the SDLP?. I recommend some rest, being up at 2.41 in the morning reading Indymedia can not be good for you. I was intrigued by one of your comments just how can you vote tactically for the DUP who did you want to keep out? I hope to see your response before midnight.

by A - TFC NIPSA Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:35

Patrique raises a number of points on the election of the NIPSA General Council and election pacts. To clarify the position of Time For Change I would like to make the following points.

TFC supports forming wide left wing election pacts to remove the right from power. We have made such proposals in the past and I wouldn’t doubt that we will again.

Patrique states

“Certainly there are many good activists in TFC, it always puzzled me when some of them do not get elected, but sure, they are not party members.”

I assume that Patrique is having a dig at the SP here (there are other parties with members in TFC so it may be one of them) the fact is that unfortunately both SP and non SP TFC candidates lose in the elections and out of the TFC activists elected to the current GC a minority where SP. The reasons that someone is not elected is due to a whole number of factors, profile of the individual, personal vote, size of department, type of department, strength off the election campaign, activity levels in the union and of course most critically the level of support that a left wing programme can achieve at that point in time. TFC accepts the outcome of elections as the democratic mandate of the members.

In addition TFC campaigns for an extension of NIPSA democracy. We call for all negotiating positions to be elected including Seconded and Full Time Official position in the union.

I would reiterate that elections are only a facet of the work that needs to be done in NIPSA. For real change to be achieved election work must go hand in hand with the work in the branches, building campaigns and developing solidarity.

by Patrique - nipsa Sun Apr 30, 2006 00:50

Right, you've made me jealous, of Mr McKinney. He is in the SWP so we are all associated with the SWP. I nearly joined the Alliance Party recently, I live in S.Antrim, so can the US not be known as an Alliance Party dominated group? Why should McKinney get more credit than me?

We have a few who vote Unionist. Can we be a Unionist dominated group? Why does McKinney get all the credit? In reality I am supposed to be in the same party as Michael Robinson, can US not be a Michael Robinson dominated group?

I am away to sulk.

Here, I voted DUP in the last election.................tactically.

by Patrique - NIPSA Sun Apr 30, 2006 00:00

Oh dear, I have been that active that I didn't even notice the thread about the pay dispute until now.

And I am utterly confused. Ambushing Peter Hain, it's always best to attack the top, watch any Godfather movies, ambushing Peter Hain was a TV stunt! LOL. Just as well it was on TV because all of you who have not seen us wouldn't have seen us then either, because WE WERE THE ONLY PEOPLE THERE.

We were also at the Irish Ferries dispute, and NIPSA headquarters were responsible for the "We support Irish Ferries" banners, we were the ones who pointed out the error. We were also leafletting many buidings, attended ALL of the all members meetings. The one some eejit spotted us at in Belfast, saying it was the only one we were at, was obviously the only one he was at. Maybe his colleagues may have spotted us in Derry and Armagh on the same day, because we sent activists there, all on the same day. And we are a small group.

Finally, US do not support overtime, full stop. The Civil Service would be unable to recruit any staff if there was no overtime, because the wages are so low. Therefore most civil servants work overtime. They are caught in the poverty trap. I understand this, because I am highly sensitive, intelligent and caring. I do not support it. I understand child molesters as well, but I do not not support them either. US were the only group, and it wasn't me due to transport difficulties, to have a picket line at weekends when overtime was being offered to staff. But who wants to know the truth.

Let's face it, most of the contributers to the other thread were Thatcherites, bugger the postal workers and all other workers, what about us? Now say what you like about splits between groups in NIPSA, but these people support the splits in different workers, and adopt the old "I'm alright Jack" stance.

I despair, I really do.

By the way, who are the SWP?

by patrique - nipsa Sat Apr 29, 2006 23:24

"A-TFC" makes some interesting points. Certainly there are many good activists in TFC, it always puzzled me when some of them do not get elected, but sure, they are not party members.

And TFC do vote for other left wing activists, but they are select. Mr McKinney was certainly left wing and extremely active, but he is in SWP so that was the end of that, sooner vote for George Bush than SWP.

As for myself many see me as left wing and active, and obviously TFC do not vote for me because if they did I would top the poll. Even above Amanda, Carmel, and the rest. Think about it, look at my vote and add on TFC support. Mind you, I am not that fussy about being elected, my time could be more profitably spent elsewhere.

And there is a good reason for not supporting me. Unfortunately I cannot be controlled, I am the sort of loose cannon who objects to conference passing motions without bothering to have a vote, or allowing people, suitably mandated, to speak. This means that I can be labelled as the "loony left", a wing nut. How many votes is that liable to cost? Much easier to follow the New Labour path and say nothing about potential corruption, I mean what's that compared to potential votes?

Even the fact that it turns out that I was right, and successfully restored the right to vote, to speak, to represent your branch and the ordinary member, and indeed democracy to the union, even restoring all of this cannot be worth the risk of losing votes. Can it? Can you imagine if the left had power and tried to pass motions without having a vote, and Amanda managed to restore democratic principles, she would have been hailed as the saviour, received a knighthood and the Nobel prize. Incidently, the fact that I had to go to the Certification office, to receive an answer to my questions, is even worse from the left view point. Much rather have no democracy than go to those people.

Hello Stroppy, old mate. There was not a split in US, those who were successful in being elected became interested in elections, and left, or so I suspect. I blame it on mixing with the wrong type of people.

by stroppy Sat Apr 29, 2006 19:17

Some interesting comments from my old mate Patreek. It would seem that there has been a split in the US camp with some old favourites now disowned. How did this happen?
Interested to know that there are some full time politicos in NIPSA,who could they be?
Patreek did indeed get a reasonable vote but I recall at least one other occasion when the vote was less healthy and wonder what was the explanation.

by A - TFC NIPSA Sat Apr 29, 2006 16:25

Patrique has made a number of comments about Time For Change which I would like to clarify.

GENERAL COUNCIL ALLIANCE

TFC and US activists on the General Council did agree on a wide range of issues that came up but there where also issues where we did not see eye to eye.

SUPPORTING NON TFC CANDIDATES

TFC will support non TFC left candidates who have a fighting record in the union. Indeed TFC believes that one of the weaknesses of the left in NIPSA has been unnecessary divisions. TFC has made approaches for a unified left both in elections and in fighting on day to day issues.

CIVIL SERVICE PAY BALLOT

Patrique states that US are critical of those who spent more time canvassing for their own votes than working for the strike ballot. On that we agree. TFC activists played an excellent role in, mobilising the strike ballot vote, leafleting workplaces, speaking at meetings and preparing solidarity action. The work for a yes vote had to be the priority. That cost us votes in the GC election but it was and is the right decision.

RECORD OF TFC ACTIVISTS

The record of Time For Change activists in the union is second to none. We are actively involved in fighting on the day to day issues affecting members, campaigning on wider issues, building solidarity for workers in struggle and building active branches. This is not to say that others in the union are not equally active but we believe that activity must be combined with a left programme to develop a fighting democratic union.

Although elections are not the be all and end all of trade union activity Time For Change takes them very seriously. Elections offer a unique opportunity to get the message of the left to NIPSAs 40,000 + members. It is necessary for the left to fight at all levels of the union to seek to change the union from top to bottom and to take control of the union out of the hands of the right wing.

by Patrique - NIPSA Sat Apr 29, 2006 15:00

Alas the above reply is indicative of NIPSA, an inability to read, or more likely, to trust.
The facts. Uncivil Servant had two MEMBERS on the General Council, and two MEMBERS on the CSGE. Those people are no longer members of the Uncivil Servant. In 2006 two people from the US list were elected to General Council, but neither of them are members of the US. This is where we differ from TFC and RTU. It doesn't matter to us if you are right wing, left wing or a wing nut, if we feel you can do a good job we may well support you. Just because a person is in Branch 8 does not mean they are US.

To illustrate further. Rumour has it that Amanda Allaway may stand for high office at conference. She may well get our vote, but that does not mean Amanda is in US. You may not believe me, and you can carry on thinking that Amanda is in US, but the idea is nonsense. If the rumours are correct, we may well believe that she is the better of the two candidates.

Uncivil Servant believe in representing members. Too many people in NIPSA believe in elections. In the earlier thread one of our ex-members criticised US for not spending enough time canvassing for votes for General Council, and criticised us for standing on the postal workers picket lines, and organising collections for them. We are ratrher proud of that, solidarity among workers and all that. We firmly believe that a success for the workers, any workers, as a means of raising morale, is much more important in the grand scheme of things than winning a couple of seats on General Council. The postal workers proved the power of the workers, a successful strike. It proved that an all out Civil Service strike would be successful. This is more important than General Council elections, in our view, especially if there is no-one to actually lead.

Uncivil Servant are critical of those people in NIPSA who devoted more time and energy securing votes for election to General Council, than they did in securing votes for an all out strike, a ballot that actually meant something.

The two big groups in the union, TFC and RTU spend most of their time protecting their potential votes, rather than doing something. Uncivil Servant prefer to do something for the members, elections are secondary. I personally received a reasonable vote, and didn't actually canvass anyone. You see, we believe that if you are a good rep, the votes will come in the end, but we are not about to become full time politicians like many others in NIPSA, we prefer to be trade union reps. And let's face it, two years on the Branch 8 committee brings more practical experience of a trade unionists true role, than say 20 years on General Council. We do not like to lose touch with our roots, namely the members.

A final example of the truth of the matter. Branch 8 have four people standing for CSGE, only 3 of them are members of US. The fourth, a sitting member of CSGE, is not in US. But Branch 8 will still vote for her, and 20 other people who are not in US. We will vote for those we consider to be good trade unionists and reps, whether they be from TFC, RTU, or unattached. If all of these factions could work together on the odd issue, we might actually get somewhere as a union. However when a vote assumes more importance than action, well, we are in serious trouble.

Mind you, as a founder member of US, what would I know. Perhaps the unnamed person above knows more about US than me.

by . - NIPSA Sat Apr 29, 2006 09:59

Patrique

This is a very strange comment.

Is this an attempt to rewrite history or are you a troll???

Uncivil Servant had members on the Civil Service Executive and the General Council.

They where elected in last years General Council election (February 2005) and stood again this year (February 2006) as part of the US list!