Administering the civil and military affairs of the Republic

by Enda Wed May 03, 2006 02:32

I cannot believe what i'm reading on this page, the only good thing about it is that its not completely one sided.
If you 'anarchists' want to make a protest do it peacefully, then there's a chance that there won't be any altercation with the gardai, and if you don't want to attract there attention, I sugest that you stop calling the protests 'invasions' etc.
Common sense really, and if you are being 'attacked' (which I doubt, due to experience) why not film the protests for proof, instead of dodgy photo's of a persons neck, or will the cost of buying a camera support the capitalist regime too much??

by R. Isible Tue Apr 25, 2006 21:04

Stupidly violent and deliberately aggressive arrests. You get to choose whether this is due to a lack of professionalism, or whether this is deliberate state policy. As pointed out above, if someone gets a damaged or broken neck from some retard in a uniform kneeling on it then no one will be happy.

Also, it's pretty amazing that a Garda force that does not even inspect aeroplanes of a foreign military that have been accused of transporting weapons and illegal prisoners are so zealous in attacking people drawing attention to it.

Guardians of what exactly?

by Daithi - Cork United Movement Tresspasser Society Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:22

You can't be serious? The Gardai had the gall to arrest people who attempted to force their way into a military installation by tearing down a fence? Clearly, we're living in a dictatorship one hundred million billion zillion times worse than Communist Russie or Nazi Germany (and I don't exaggerate)!

It's nice to see you lads squabbling over who got the credit for this righeous endeavour. How are we ever going to bring down the forces that oppress our children, beat our comrades and suggest decent but unacceptable standards of hygiene if we cannot unite under a single flag?

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Apr 20, 2006 14:48

Cynicism and irony - 'half' jokes and 'realistic' drivel.

Yet, the Irish government's complicity in the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan continues. The Irish government's complicity in the recent EU decision to cut aid to Palestinians continues. Never mind the Army marching up and down O'Connell Street. The Coalition continues to posture...as the Italians prepare to witdraw their troops from Iraq, despite Berlusconi's hollering, Ireland will remain along with Poland the only EU State actively supporting the Crusaders. What an honour - what a digrace - take your pick John Maxwell.

There may be a good minority active against the war and against the use of Shannon and Baldonnel. Some of us are anarchists, others socialists, others Catholics, many feminists, scores don't even see themselves as political. Yet we can hold our head upright and say to our children who will ask us 'What did you do during the war mum/daddy/uncle/grandad/brother/sister/neighbour' ? We'll say we fought against the Empire the best way we could....in the spirit of women and men of 1916.....while many of our friends and neighbours and colleagues made money, bought property, read the Indepedendent and vomitted cynicism. Take your choice.

by john maxwell & helga Thu Apr 20, 2006 14:21

for one thing, the 70+ of Baldonnel are counting on more popular support since their action, they didn't shoot horses as their opening move, they didn't give the poor of Dublin an opportunity to loot shoes, so they're not unpopular with the cobbler guilds, they seem to have demonstrated more logistic, strategic and military skill than the 1916 lot, not a one of them was as tall or looked as good in a boilersuit as General Liam Neeson did in a uniform, they didn't waste 2 whole days digging trenches in stephen's green, they didn't see fit to organise a ceasefire to move the ducks from stephen's green, and they're not at this moment being tortured or going to end up in quicklime. & so far not one member of the House of Commons in London has wrongly said they were Sinn Fein.

by Keith Thu Apr 20, 2006 14:00

If you think the 70+ people at Baldonnel can be put on a par with the leaders of 1916 you're seriously kidding yourself.

by Joe Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:12

Good spot irony - lucky district court judges can't hand down death penalties!

by Irony Wed Apr 19, 2006 15:45

The people arrested on the day will be tried in kilmainham on the same dates the rebels themselves were tried 90years ago.. haha

http://www.1916rising.com/executed.html

by Silent Majoritarian Wed Apr 19, 2006 06:27

I can assure the previous poster that we don't need him to exercise his google skills on behalf of us in order to distract from the central subject: that the Irish State is complicit in using thuggish brutality and force against protestors against a foreign military power in our country on the very day when it is celebrating the achievements of women and men (who would have been spat upon by the likes of Bertie) in removing a previous foreign military power.

As to the allusion to someone "knowing what he was getting into" when he bought a house near the airport ... how would he have known that the USAF was being allowed to use Baldonnell so heavily? The government and the media have done their best from the very outset to conceal that knowledge from the population.

The whole behaviour of the Gardai and the Army is disgusting. Anyone in either organisation with an ounce of decency must be feeling that their job is a dirty one. As for the others, well there were always traitors willing to take the King's shilling.

by Realist - The Silent Majority Wed Apr 19, 2006 05:58

Seeing the "anarchist" banner being displayed, made me do a google on the word.

The term drew an exceptional number of definitions, and none the same as the next. The one below is an example.

Victor Yarros: "Anarchism means no government, but it does not mean no laws and no coercion. This may seem paradoxical, but the paradox vanishes when the Anarchist definition of government is kept in view. Anarchists oppose government, not because they disbelieve in punishment of crime and resistance to aggression, but because they disbelieve in compulsory protection. Protection and taxation without consent is itself invasion; hence Anarchism favors a system of voluntary taxation and protection." (Our Revolution; Essays and Interpretations p.80)

To me, its one whole paradox! What anarchism favours is not just impractical, but impossible, as those who support it, themselves assume the role of a protector (Government), and assume the right to represent the silent majority who want no representation from them. Just look at the chaos that small numbers of them can cause.

On the subject of the man at Baldonnel House, he bought the house a year and a half ago, and was quite aware of being on the immediate approach to runway 29. I have no sympathy for him, and neither should you. His business speculation did not work out, and he is pissed off.

Another poster, (Dr Colin from Maynooth) encourages these wasters to go to hospital to clog up the A&E's even more than they are. He should be ashamed.

by Keith Wed Apr 19, 2006 01:15

My name is Keith. I dont have a rank number because Im not a garda or soldier. I live near Baldonnell. So what were you gonna give me?

by krossie - (wsm personal capacity) Tue Apr 18, 2006 22:14

One of the marchers was talking to people in the Baldonel House. They were strongly supportive to the extent of offering a bed for the night. They also mentioned that their windows are rattled by heavy transport planes passing over head almost every night. Doubt if this is anyt thing from "our" air force - any way well worth an interview I would say - any intrepid indy media reporter interested?

Keith -

We'll do a swap you give us your name rank and number and we'll give you....

Krossie

by BRéNOC Tue Apr 18, 2006 21:34

Very good action, my compliments to all involved.

It was a much better way to commemorate the spirit of 1916 than the parade of uniformed bureaucrats through the streets of Dublin, which was supposed to commemorate the 90th anniversary.

Thirty years of open warfare on this island, Irish people being openly killed by foreign troops and their death squads, but where were the so-called official Irish army.
In their barracks, cleaning their guns and complaining about the amount of noise they made.
"Oh my ears, my ears, wait till I tell my solicitor about these loud things we have to work with".

That army of bureaucrats doesn't deserve the title of ‘Óglaigh na hÉireann’.

by Keith Tue Apr 18, 2006 20:53

You claim that a bunch of young anarchists were jumping around the fence. Earlier another eyewitness claimed he was among this group and that they put ropes around the fence and tried to pull it down. Which one of you is lying?

by spotless mind Tue Apr 18, 2006 17:57

Bikers r us

As member some of the few that cycled out to Baldonnel I can give an overview of the days events first hand. I would first like to remind all that bertie was out in military force on our streets to commemorate an insurrection against imperialism, this alone is irony at its best?...

Easter 1916 the British military was brought in to wipe out the dissenting rebels. These individuals that believed they deserved better, a fight for self rule that would mean they could regulate there own policies and protect and provide for their own people. The proclamation to the people outside the GPO was ridiculed by much of the passing public and is now a dated document but it is symbolic of a minority of people fighting for what they believe in. Baldonnel saw a collection of people who recognised that the Irish government are instruments of war, and while our military hides behind peace missions we feed American flights with fuel.

The aggressive tone of whole march was set out by the gardai from the very beginning. When the various groups gathered on a by road near the war port many of us had been cycling for an hour and a half or had been travelling by bus for nearly as long. A member of the march walked away from the crowd who were talking and resting and went to urinate in a bush that served a perimeter of a large field. We were in isolated area where a bush would best serve anyone's bladder but it seems this was instantly an arrest able offence, the poor protester was whipped away while several of his friends tried to pull him from the restraints of the gardai. All was not lost, legal support was on the case and we continued with our march, walking peacefully along the perimeter of the base.

People sang songs and even conversed with our fellow garda cyclists. There were some comical exchanges with the army officers behind the barrier not forgetting that were all individuals and that dissent among the ranks is not inhuman. A garda helicopter was ever present including several riot vans. Things got a little messy when the anarcho-kids decided to do a runner towards a barrier near some wasteland. They made some noise and jumped around at the fence, as young energetic people do. Garda ran at them all and quite violently pulled at them arresting two and then another by the riot vans as he tried to pull a comrade from their hands.

The garda actions were all very unnecessary and only infuriated protesters and gardai. There were no plans and definitely no way we could actually penetrate the base. The claims of wanting to undertake weapons inspections on sight were statements to highlight the fact we were aware of what 'our' government used Baldonnel for and that a few enthusiastic people were willing to go out there and peacefully subject a piece of our mind to those who would, or at least have to, listen to us.

This event was an alternative to the military parade, a celebration for the Easter rising that was also a relevant attack on the imperialism that own government now helps implement around the world. We will march on.


Eds Note: This post was removed from Newswire and added as a comment here to the relevant thread

by Chris - the unmanageables Tue Apr 18, 2006 15:30 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 087-7765-289

Good call editors. I was hoping that there would be a juxtaposition of actions and counter demonstrations rather than a focus on a single one. It was nice to open the page and see the
unmanageables and the Baldonnel action illustrating the feeling that people can act and are not
over-whelmed by this propaganda machine that runs our country.

by Eleth Tue Apr 18, 2006 14:56

My taxes help pay for our travesty of a healthcare system. I'd rather more money wasn't wasted on patching your idiotic skulls back together. Wear your helmets people.

by c. - 1 of Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group Tue Apr 18, 2006 01:33

I laid out the feature and put the original caption in - it was from
The picture of the three tough men in black arresting the protester in white deserves a prize for its poignant evocation of the new landscape of Irish militarism. in a comment above and referred to the guards. I have removed it to avoid any confusion.

by Badman Tue Apr 18, 2006 00:36

That the "black bloc" caption refers to the Gardai and is a joke.

by Doleitariat Tue Apr 18, 2006 00:01

I wasn't there at the march on Baldonnell, but surely a kid dressed in a white jump suit is about as far away from the black bloc tactic as you can get? It may bear a resemblence to the Tute Bianche and even a lazy mainstream commentator could be forgiven for making that assumption on the basis of fashion choice. But Indymedia? C'mon please! Given the importance of annonymity within a black bloc - its hardly wise to carry a caption saying "black bloc" in action, where the photo displays a bloke being arrested. It leaves them open to accusations of black bloc participation. Anyway the caption is untrue - imagine what your readers would say if a mainstream paper carried a photo of a bloke being battered by police then shifted the action/blame/motive of the scene over on to the black bloc in action? The caption could read many things - but the most obvious is "Protester Arrested At Baldonnell - Accusations of Excessive Force Follow."

by Helpful Mon Apr 17, 2006 23:12

is posted on the event calendar at the link below:

by kropotkin Mon Apr 17, 2006 21:27

Does a fence feel pain?

What about tortured guantanamo prisoners and all the dead iraqis and yanks, do they?

Violence is against people, like when a cop punches a protestor, not when a protestor pulls on a fence.

by Keith Mon Apr 17, 2006 21:03

I cant believe what im reading here. All of you, even the author, are admitting that you attacked Baldonnel and tried to gain entry. Of course they stopped you forcefully. You claimed you wanted to inspect weapons? So? What right did you have? 70 people is hardly a representative number of the people of Ireland. Why don'y tou all head over to Iraq and protest there. Whats that you say? The Iraqis will kidnap and shoot you? Nonsense they are a peaceful people who have never invaded anyone.If you do insist on protesting in Ireland why dont you try a peaceful one. if you could refrain from violence for a few hours maybe you could actually get a whole protest in.

by @narch@ Mon Apr 17, 2006 20:55

I was so happy to see people from the WSM, Revolt Video, Anarchist Youth and Anarchist Prisoner Solidarity all working together for a highly organised demo, fuck the people who want to focus on elections - build the libertarian movement.

A Los Barricados!

by V for Vendetta Mon Apr 17, 2006 20:44

What a cop-out, urging anarchists to petition political parties over shannon and baldonnel. Liberal crap the won't get us anywhere.
Keep organising, Keep attacking. That's the route to take, don't be sidetracked by people with piss-poor political understanding.

Where was the action that certain well known big talkers kept claiming they were going to do during the Parade? Fair play to the ladies who were there (and in baldonnel after..), but what about those who called on anarchists to cancel their action and then did NOTHING?

Baldonnel was a great step forward, now we have to keep organising - not focussing on parliamentary elections and media stunts.

by krossie - wsm (personal capacity) Mon Apr 17, 2006 19:42

there was quite a good action yesterday at the parade
- dunno how ya missed it!!

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75488

Any way I agree with some of what Phuq hedd says and certainly I support the people who went to Baldonel and agree that the state was exposed as the defender and supporter of a vicious imperialist war.
It was certainly well worth doing.

How ever I think "A" is also reflecting a genuine sense of powerlessness with the current situation that has come up repeatedly in previous threads especially around the March 18th demo.

What happened yesterday was good and courageous but small.
It’s good to see we aren't totally powerless and some have fight left in them!

How ever we have a long way sto go to get the movement (in general) into any thing close to the shape it was before. (well when the war started)
We have suffered reverses.
But the time to start rebuilding is now.
I think the work of the Coisintoiri in organising the April 1st meeting in the teachers club and another to come for activists was a good step.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75286

Next meeting is on the 22nd
In Teachers Club Dublin – 2pm

There's room for a lot of thought and discussion if we are ever to build a open, credible, combative, democratic movement of movements that will end this complicity for good.

(On a side issue I doubt hugely if focusing on the politicians and the election will do it. politicians respond to public pressure - its not there and can't be "magiced" up instantly.
Right now it’s about, maybe, number 50 in the average person's list of priorities for Eire inc.
There's a lot of passive opposition but other things are much higher in people's list. )

We can only change this by rebuilding and actually landing some real “hits" that shed light on the politicians and the government’s complicity.

We need to federate and multiply the various forces and groups against the war.
We need to build a real movement. I
t’s been a good week end.
Baldonel and the actions at the parade were great. We need more of them, we need coordination, we need organization, we need creativity. We need strategy and tactics. We need to move on.

A forum for the discussion of the various ideas or proposals coming out of the last open meeting on the 1st April has been set up at http://cosantoiri.org/phpBB2/ worth looking into

Krossie

by q, j, x, pi, @, ~, #, ¬ (or whatever letter you want) Mon Apr 17, 2006 19:22

There was a military parade in the middle of the city with 120,000 people, I think that would have been the best time and place to do an anti war action, in the same way people protest at the location of the Salthill Airshow every year and not miles away in Clifden. Baldonnel is still there today, tomorrow, next week, next year. There wont be a military parade in Dublin for another ten years, more than likely. A missed opportunity in my opinion. You can take it as face value or speculate about my gender & politics (which I'm not even so sure about myself sometimes), I'd much rather you engaged in a debate about the worthiness of travelling out to Baldonnel over an action in the city centre ON THIS DAY IN QUESTION. I support any action at Baldonnel any other time EXCEPT this one. Over and out.

by Phuq Hedd Mon Apr 17, 2006 18:50

"A" above writes as though s/he wants to be taken as being an "anarchist" who is forced upon mature reflection to draw the painful conclusion that the attempt to draw attention to Baldonnel airport was a mistake.

I'll bet s/he isn't though!

Add to this that A's analysis is piss-poor: the Baldonnell action /has/ drawn attention to another facet of the US war machine and Ireland's deep complicity in it. For quite a while there have been reports on Indymedia of covert US flights operating from there. It seems possible that Shannon is where the cannon-fodder are shipped through to die and murder in Iraq and Baldonell is used for quieter things.

The action was also succesful in forcing the hand of the state in exposing the piggish brutality of the Gardai and this will be seen by the approximately 250,000 readers of Indymedia

A sit down would be something that someone else could do and it might be a good idea. The Unmanageables put on a visually effective protest that probably grabbed as much attention as it was possible to do.

by A Mon Apr 17, 2006 17:56

I think with hindsight it was a bad idea to go out there. Baldonnel is very isolated in the southwestern suburbs and the cops could basically do what they wanted without fear of being exposed by any mainstream media outlet, or having a huge amount of people turn on them. Trying to get through the fence with small numbers was brave, but also I think it might have been better to make a sit down protest in front of the military machines as they went through town. More people would have seen the action, and maybe even joined in. Or even the cops tried to get tough with people, they'd know the eyes of the public & RTE would be on them, live.

Bertie was talking about how the commemoration should be the start of a 'national conversation'. The trip to Baldonnel has sidelined the anti-war message to a few lines of column inches, rather than catapulting it back into the collective mindset. If the action was going to be militant (and I think people were up for it), it needed to provoke more reaction from those just present from the bike or bus ride. If anything yesterday's low attendance just showed how isolated and fragmented antiwar efforts in the capital are regrettably.

The actions at Shannon died out because (I feel) people didnt see any point in crashing up against that fence repeatedly. Even if 700 or even 7000 people showed up yesterday at Baldonnel, I dont think that FF are going to bend on the US Military landing here, or that the carriers will stop transporting the troops. I'm not sure what actions can be taken - I'm not sure that antiwar groups have the power (dirty word) to change the current situation.

The only possible next course of action I can think of is to start gatecrashing the political parties press opportunites in the run up to the next election, trying to turn it into an issue again that people care about. I dont hold out much hope for a FG/Lab/Green coalition stopping the military landing, but I shudder to think it might be the only way forward to put pressure on them to do it if they get in. If FF/PDs win again (likely...) then nothing will change. It seems like the decision/change is only going to be made at that level.

Maybe if Iran gets attacked (sad to say it, but its true) there may be another spike in antiwar awareness, this could be a catalyst for getting more people down to Shannon for direct actions, but all I can see in this scenario is history repeating itself again a la March 2003, with media hype about anarchist violence scaring people away, and other liberal/trot groups falling into line because they dont want to damage their electoral chances...

(sigh)

by ('',) Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:27

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0416/baldonnell.html

by .:. @ + * Mon Apr 17, 2006 03:32

sincerely well done.

by raab Mon Apr 17, 2006 02:24

i would advise anyone who was assaulted to document any injuries and take immediate action against the pigs involved. from what i can see the people involved look young, assault on a person under 18 by a pig in his 40's is pathetic.

by P O Neil - arm chair general Mon Apr 17, 2006 02:20

We would have been there too...

Except

Except we had to review the wee soldiers at the wee 26 county parade

Cynical?

There comes a point were even cynicism pales into insignificance campared to reality...

WELL DONE

Conolly would have been at Baldonnel thats for sure

by Coilín Mon Apr 17, 2006 01:26 Máigh Nuad, Co. Cill Dara

An admirable demonstration, conducted - as far as I can tell - entirely without violence on the part of the demonstrators.

Seventy people is a very good showing, not a "very few" for a demonstration like this. I wish I could have been there, but I spent the day proofreading a submission for the European parliament's committee investigating the extraordinary renditions.

Thanks for the very well written report and the excellent photos. The picture of the three tough men in black arresting the protester in white deserves a prize for its poignant evocation of the new landscape of Irish militarism.

As a doctor, I'm wondering whether I can have confirmation that the Gardaí gripped some of the protesters on the front of the neck? If so, have all such victims of potentially lethal force been examined by a doctor, and had well-lit photographs of bruises taken in order to document the use of excessive force? (Marks on the back of the neck don't bear the same weight, unless they are accompanied by corresponding marks on the front of the neck.)

And have complaints been made to the Gardaí?

Short of apprehending a violent criminal, it can never be appropriate for a Garda to take somebody by the throat, as this may be lethal in various ways. I don't work in Accident and Emergency myself these days, but I would consider it the duty of any doctor to report to the Gardaí in the event that he/she witnesses bruising to the throat arising from throttling. Given the conflict of loyalties that the Gardaí may face in the event of a complaint to themselves, I think there must be other possible routes to criminal proceedings - perhaps by reporting directly to the DPP?

If it can be proven that people were throttled, then it may be possible to have compensation for battery awarded through criminal or civil prosecution.

And even if no legal proceedings take place, I think it's worthwhile documenting such violence so that the culprits - supposed guardians of the peace - can reflect on the gravity of their violent actions and so that others, who were not present, can appreciate the courage of the protesters.

Best,
Coilín.

by dissenter Mon Apr 17, 2006 01:07

RTE teletext is claiming the demo was organised by the cosaintoiri, it wasnt.

The demo was organised by GRASSROOTS DISSENT (dublin grassroots merged with dissent)

Actively organised by Anarchist Youth, Anarchist Prisoner Support, WSM, Revolt Video and one member of cosaintoiri.
Supported by labour youth and not many other groups.

Next time we go to Baldonnel we must go in numbers because the gardai will surely attack us again.

by Rory Mon Apr 17, 2006 00:30

Ah yes, the ever-principled anarchists!!! Always hiding their faces while making their 'protests'. Never setting out a definite policy or any realistic goals. You are suprised that a heavy garda, and army, presence awaited your descent onto Baldonnel! Considering the behaviour of your comrades on the day of the Victims March in Dublin recently, and on May 1st 2004 when hundreds of you fools tried to storm and disrupt the welcoming of the Eastern Bloc countries into the EU (thus formally ending their horrible Cold War experience), the armed forces of the state were justified in using limited force to prevent you from making fools out of yourselves. Anarchism? Socialism? Republicanism? Wake up to the real world! Long live the free market!

by republican socialist Sun Apr 16, 2006 23:52

Nice to see the spirit of 1916 alive and well, if i had known about this i would have been there with you.

by Casement deserves better Sun Apr 16, 2006 23:26

Five more

1-2-3 charge

Choking marks