Brit Plans for War in Iran

by MichaelY - iawm Mon Mar 27, 2006 14:09

Amazed they could be as perverse and blatant as this...It clarifies things a lot. It would help the debate likely to take place in the Teachers Club 2.30 next Saturday.

by Anon Mon Mar 27, 2006 18:17

So lets start planning some protests now.

by spider Mon Mar 27, 2006 21:08

because that accomplished so much last time..

by A10 Mon Mar 27, 2006 22:03

this is totally beliveable and true because it is posted on Indymedia,and by an anymous source???Yeah Righhttttt!!!!!!!!!

by Barbara Mon Mar 27, 2006 22:37

Unfortunately, this is another prelude to the War on Iraq. Read the details and you will see that the policy has been fixed around fabricated lies. No matter what Iran shows to demonstrate that it does not have nuclear weapons and does not plan to attack another country (which is the most stupid reason that this Administration is using) The Bush Administration intends to go to war. If one reads the details of day to day plannig by the Bush Administration as to how they fabricated information, forged documents and lied to the U.S. Congress, Senate and the America people to start a war with Iraq, you can believe that the same is happening gain. They had all of this planned right from the beginning. However, they will go even further here and use nuclear war-heads to attack Iran. What an Irony. It is also unfortunate that the Senate, the Congress and many of the American people still have not learned their lessonn that this Government can't be trusted. They have a policy to do what they want, to whom they lack at the cost of lives of innocent civilians, the U.S. soldiers, and the American people.

Though you are absolutely right that the last war demonstration did not prevent this War Hungry Administration not to go to war, but this time we know exactly how they operate and we can call them on their lies. Otherwise, this "pre-emptive" attack philosophy that the Bush Administrationis enforcing gives them the right to go after any country or people that they like without any proof of any kind.. I still think if they hear from so many people around the world, and the Americans, that maybe at least they might get some resistance from the U.S. Congress and Senate. This time around they had to bring in France,as no one in the world would believe anything that Great Britain or the U.S. would say and since France was a strong advocate against the War in Iraq, it gives The Bush Administration the credibility it needs to demonstrate that even the hard strung, anti-war French believe that Iran is a nuclear threat. They have bought everyone. They plan to go back to the good old days Colonialism and let the Imperialist U.S. and the Colonialist French and British dominante their old colonies after they have established their puppet regimes all because of oil and greed. Does anyone else have any other idea!!

by Raymond McInerney - Global Country of World Peace Tue Mar 28, 2006 00:12 raymond.mcinerney at ul dot ie Limerick 00353860638611

Calls for a Group of Yogic Flyers in Every Country to Create Integrated National Consciousness— the Basis of National Invincibility

“Government Should Not Sacrifice Its Youth to Defend the Nation”

His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi this week offered to every government the complete knowledge and proven programs to achieve what militaries and politicians have failed to achieve: Invincible Defense. Maharishi’s approach calls for establishing in each nation a small group of Yogic Flyers who will enliven Total Natural Law—the light of God—and create a high level of integrated collective consciousness, which is the basis of invincibility for the nation and permanent peace on earth.

“This is the same message that has been propounded by the wise throughout the ages,” Maharishi said. “I know it is real—but maybe the world doesn’t. That is why I thought I should make this offer to every government.”

The youth don’t have to die for the nation with Invincible Defense

Maharishi dismissed as “suicidal” the military approach to defense in every country. “You want to defend your country, so you send your youth off to die for the nation. But when you sacrifice the youth, for whom are you defending the nation?” Maharishi said.

Maharishi said the real power of defense will not be found in the ability to die for the security of the nation, but rather in the ability to prevent the birth of an enemy. “Now, with Invincible Defense, every country can prevent the birth of an enemy—and then the youth will live a long life in health, wealth, and wisdom for the nation,” Maharishi said.

Maharishi also had strong words for leaders who promote divisive political parties within their own countries—which tear apart the integrity of the nation and make it vulnerable to takeover by foreign powers.

Global Country of World Peace is adopting
24 countries to make each nation invincible

To remedy the “dilapidated” situation in the world today, Maharishi announced that his Global Country of World Peace is adopting 24 countries to raise each nation to invincibility. A small group of a few hundred to a few thousand Yogic Flyers is now being established in each country to create integrated collective consciousness. (The number of Yogic Flyers in each country depends upon the size of the population of the country.) “It will just take a few months to train these groups and create integrated collective consciousness,” Maharishi said. “Then problems in the nation will disappear, as darkness disappears with the onset of light.”

Maharishi emphasized that more and more countries will soon be adopted until every nation is enjoying Heaven on Earth.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:36

The two responses by spider and A10 are the classic arguments of the pro-war lobby.

Spider's line offers the position - so what did 100,000 demonstrating achieve last time...protests don't work...Government does what it wants to do...apathy is the right and most comfortable position. So shut up you moaners and let the US and its allies do what they want. And let our Coalition be complicit in the slaughter fields.What do we care?

A 10 is a derivative. Ah sure...why should we believe them? Having told untold lies about WMDs in Iraq, having lied about Saddam's ties to fundamentalists - now the first line of defence is why should we believe the leak? Ask Blair and his cabal, A10, who're going potty about the leak...check the names...see if Nicolas Byrne was or was not the US co-ordinator of the attack on Yugoslavia while Ambassador to Greece. Check if Sawers is or is not what the article says. Check if there was a meeting last Monday. But at the end of the day you're not really interested in veracity...yours and Spider's wish is the same. Lets not start rocking the imperial boat.....let the Empire rule because we profit from it and we like it that way!!

As for 'anonymity'....I am in the iawm, in the Steering Committee...who are you? And who is Spider? The Ripening of Time was a very respected journal of the Left....and the name comes from Connolly btw. On your bikes - we will organise and we will win good friends!

Barbara, there is an organising meeting in the Teachers Club next Saturday at 2.30. If you're in Dublin you are very welcome.

by A10 Tue Mar 28, 2006 13:48

Being on the IAWM comittee,steering or otherwise or hanging alot of other letters means jackshit to me and the rest of the world!![
!Like most things in or from Ireland ,a jumped up self important little bunch that really has no real bearing on what goes on in the real world.]

Does that make you privvy to each and every ploy from DC and Nr 10???Must do, as you know first hand that tthis is true!!! and that everything that came out of Iraq is lies.Boy oh boy I wish I could have your childishly simplistic view of the world.
Which seems to be Bush,USA Iraq /iranBAAAAADDD!!! Everything anti Bush,etc Gooooddddd!!!
Ever herar of deception,false flag,leaks etc etc???
Hidden agendas??What solid proof do you have that this isnt a trick or plan??Apart from a post from a leftie website?
Somthing you should know about as the furher of the world power IAWM or whatever other BSAUSA group you belong to.
I really love it here when somone challanges the leftist anti war dogma here.They are slammed immediately as complicit in the NWO,imperialist,pro war ,etc etc,right down to the posters ingrown toenail problems.
But that makes it so fun,rocking the leftist anti USA boat here occasionaly,and hopefully making a few leftists spew their museli over their computor screens.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Mar 28, 2006 14:19

I think your response A10 is sufficient for all Indymedia surfers/readers/devotees, whether from Ireland or not , to understand well where you're coming from...geographically, politically AND personally. I maintain that the Sawers leak is real - the bufoon sent it and did not make sure who was handling it, who had access to it and who would read it. Nothing in your response denies this and for good reason.
I am saying that US and Britain are planning to attack Iran - the same way the US bombed Cambodia and Laos at the time that their Vietnam adventure was coming to a terrible end - after thay napalmed and destroyed the countryside and burn and maimed people.
The US Army is doing the same in Iraq - only yesterday they were stupid enough to attack a Shiite temple and kill people - the Shiites have been so far almost neutral in this conflict. Continue like this and you'll turn them against you too. The Sunnis will fight you until their last drop of blood. Their fight, their resistance and our support means a lot to them - and us!
With 500,000 demonstrating in LA a couple of days ago, with Colombia and Venezuela jumping in and out of your ass, involving yourselves in Iran will only mean thousands more body bags travelling back to the US. As for what we do here in Ireland meaning 'jackshit' as you say...jackshit is in the eye of the beholder A10. The Brits have been taught some hard lessons by us stupid Irish over the last while - perhaps you're itching now. I can understand. It's what Chomsky calls the neo-cons suicide itch.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Mar 28, 2006 14:23

As you would have noticed my learned friend I resisted saying anything about your absolutely fantastic capacity to spell plain words. That in itself is a loud commentary of the depth of your rounded personality and understanding. I am sure a few other Irish jackasses will pick up on that.

by U McBride - Ripening of Time Tue Mar 28, 2006 19:48

Call for international coordinated action to stop the war against
Iran before it starts

We, the organizations, institutions, initiatives, individuals
participating at the 4th Cairo Conference

-express our solidarity with the people of Iran who are threatened with
war by the US administration and its allies.

- express our determination to do whatever is possible to stop
this escalation of the war –an escalation which will inevitably lead to
a humanitarian and environmental catastrophe

- to stop the war before it starts.

We call for an international day of action against the preparations for a military attack against Iran on
the 6th of May, thus coordinating are actions with the European Movements and
the 4th European Social Forum who will be demonstrating on this day against
the war, in Athens, Greece.

Should, nevertheless, the war start we call for mass antiwar activities including demonstrations, strikes, school and university occupations, closures and blockades the next day after the first bomb has been dropped on Iranian soil.

- No war on Iran
- Solidarity with the Iranian people

by the muesli-spewer Tue Mar 28, 2006 20:13

Oh by the way A10 maybe if you had done a little background research before prematurely ejaculating into cyberspace you might have learned that the original source for the story was the Times Online.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2098203,00.html

But of course everyone with a sophisticated adult view of the world like you realises that regardless of the source it's all nonsense anyway. We all know that DC and Nr. 10 are full of wise and peace-loving gentle souls who wouldn't dream of igniting a war without a very good reason based on sound intelligence about weapons of mass destruction.
We're not going to fall for that loony left propaganda caricaturing them as rabid foaming at the mouth warmongers mad to get their hands on all that oil ....

And anyone who mentions Mossadegh will get a thrashing ...........

by thrash me Tue Mar 28, 2006 20:18

Do you mean the democratically elected prime minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953 who was removed from power by Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, and pro-monarchy forces in a complex coup led by British and US intelligence agencies ?

What are you trying to insinuate ?

That the Anglo-American Imperialists have been interfeing in Iran's internal affairs since the 1950's ?

OUTRAGEOUS !!!

How can you dare to suggest such a thing ?

by Mr. Freud Tue Mar 28, 2006 20:24

Celebrate a half a century of UK-USA ’s first overthrow of a democratically-elected government in the Middle East.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Mar 28, 2006 20:31

Hey muesli spewers and thrashers,

You're not taking A10 seriously enough....how could you accuse the US of A of being an imperial power when Dubya was an infant in the '50s? ....you're taking it too far. Enough is enough....a mistake was made about the WMDs, a white lie was told about Saddam's relationship with the Osama lot....but look....elections....a Government....OK a few billions for Haliburton...but that's the price of democracy for you....
As for A10's spelling....that's just elitist claptrap...obviously a working class lad trying to make ends meet who never managed to get his Inter because of pressures by left-wing jackass teachers. Leave him alone chrissakes.....Let him be in his sewer.

by A10 Tue Mar 28, 2006 23:36

When the museli spewers of the IAWM cant come up a logical arguement they go down to the personal level of ten year old kiddies.I love It.You are fat.You ares specky specky, four eyes,you cant spell... nanana.
How very adult ,sophisticated and intelligent...
Just shows that the museli spewers cant handle intelligent debate,just pick and chant the same old shite.
So the story came from the Times.BIG deal.Not exactly a paragon of truth,considering it is owned by Rupert Murdoch,along with Washington post,Fox news,etc etc.
FACT The Russians and French are one of Irans biggest customers in nuke technology and other equipment.So I doubt they would run with this idea.
Russia has supplied most of Irans nuke technology and are getting worried about what Iran is doing with it.
Oh well this is no doubt rightis pro Bush American,etc etc,etc,blah blah yada yada yada.

As for Iran.A country lead by a lunatic despot,with a pouplation mostly now under 40 and getting pissed off with being ground under by religious fanatics in power.Why bother invade it,it will self implode in ten years after most effective UN sanctions where some corrupt secetary generals family will make a killing.
Or hopefully better still,the Iranians will build a scud with a nuke tip,launch it towards the USA,it will go out of control,and detonate over Ireland.

by blaise Wed Mar 29, 2006 04:20

All this rabid talk of the US and Britain entering into a war with Iran. Not bloody likely. They are having a terrible time of it in flat old Iraq. There's no bleeding way they are going into the mountainous pools of Iran. The US don't do mountains very good. Iraq had a 10 year war with them and still couldn't win it. This talk of war is all hot air. Who cares if they have or will have a nuclear bomb. These bombs will be accessible in time, don't worry, and all the bickering and bitching and war mongering talk won't achieve anything. With Bush's popularity rating at home at an all time low, given his abyssmal tenure in Iraq - the American people would have no appetite for going into downtown Tehran. And let's not forget - the so called people who the US and Britain are liberating in Iraq - the Shia - are beholding to the Mullahs of Iran. This war is a no go - and you are wasting your time debating it.

by MichaelY - iawm Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:06

Dear Blaise,

There is a lot of sense in what you write and could not agree with you more that from a rational, logical and objective point of view, the us and Britain getting involved in Iran, being up to their eyes in the killing fields of Iraq and Afghanistan, would appear as a suicide mission.

However, consider again the Sawyer position, quoted from the document above, to follow, in his eyes, the imposition of sanctions: "In parallel with agreeing a new proposal, we will also want to bind Russia and China into agreeing to further measures that will be taken by the Security Council should the Iranians fail to engage positively. That would be reflected in Step Four. We would not, at this stage, want to be explicit about what would be involved then there will need to be extensive negotiations on that in May/June."

What could these 'extensive measures' that cannot be made 'explicit' be? When a top Foreign Office thinks and articulates his views to his mates in this particular manner, this is more than 'hot air'. Don't know your age but I remember well the day Nixon ordered on TV the bombing of Cambodia and Laos...when their adventure in Vietnam was going down the drain....

Desperate people employ at times desperate measures - suicide missions if you wish. Our position is that we should be careful and vigilant. Because the Empire has no logic...take five seconds and read an apologist of imperialism in A10's comment above yours. It makes me shudder that there are people like that around...

Best regards

by BP Thu Mar 30, 2006 02:21

Just for clarification - John Sawers, a top-level civil servant, IS the warmongering blairite freak who wrote this memo, but he had DID NOT leak it - that was done by someone sane and possessed of honour and human empathy.

Woe betides that brave person if ever discovered, as their life would be worth almost a candle, given the nature of this exposure at a very sensitive time during the process of "manufacturing consent" for flight forward to even greater acts of aggression by the Brit / US / Israeli axis.

This is not the first time a 'Sawers Memo' has been leaked - this former Brit ambassador to Egypt spent a stint in Iraq in 2003 as Blair's Baghdad envoy following the invasion - and the contents of at least 2 memos highly critical of US strategy/actions in Iraq written by him in May and June 2003 have recently appeared in the Guardian (14 March 2006).

Needless to say, Sawers did not for an instant question the actions of the British military in Iraq (our heroic boys), or the 'noble motivations' of the political leadershit who sent them there. Rather, he promotes the lie of the 'righteous Brits' bravely struggling to control their psychopathic US cousins while selflessly bringing sweeties, teddy-bears and democracy to ignorant Arabs.

It could even be the same mole who released both sets of documents within a short space of time, thus taking enormous risks. However, British journos are developing their own methods to protect their sources, transcribing leaked memos by hand and then destroying all copies and notes. So, good luck!

Anyhow, having survived Iraq in 2003 despite his whinging, Sawers shifted back home, became FCO 'Political Director', is now described as "one of the biggest beasts in the FCO jungle" and has taken charge of the Iran 'negotiations', Kosovo 'negotiations', etc.

As 'Prospect Magazine' explained in Feb 2006, Sawyers is a short-listed candidate for further promotion, to Permanent Undersecretary (i.e. Head of the Diplomatic Service, top dog next to Jack Straw), but sadly "The job is about management, not policy. Morale at the FCO is poor: diplomats complain about an increasingly managerial culture in which form-filling takes precedence over original thinking."

As he is deemed suitable material for ascending this greasepole, it must mean he is a reliable blairite drone who oozes slime at all the right places and posesses no imagination but to wile 'justification' for whatever warcrime his genocidal masters order.

So sorry, but Sawers is NOT AN ANTI-WAR HERO, just another stupid soldier in the vile 'War on Terra' - (but he got expensive 'education').

The earnest and ominous intent of his scribblings should, however, be taken very seriously. Bush has obviously decided that Jesus is not working hard enough to bring about Armagheddon, secure victory in Iraq, improve his poll ratings, etc, so he has to 'help out' and simultaneously satisfy his own 'hard-on' for Iran, by launching an unprovoked massive pre-emptive nuke attack on that country.

Too lunatic, you say? But then again, insanity is the Bush trademark. And if it happens, all bets are off.

Now, back to the all-important question - was Sawers separated at birth from his twin Jeffrey? Or should Ian Paisley be told about this immoral cloning experiment?

John Sawers, cloned from Jeffrey Donaldson's toenail

by BP Thu Mar 30, 2006 03:48

'E3+3', seems to mean those parties involved in 'negotiations' whose paricipation/consent/acquiescence is needed to sew up the case for aggression - Brits, Germans, French + US, Russia, China.

Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter sets out the UN Security Council's powers to maintain peace. [whereby the term 'peace' is not defined] It allows the Council to "determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression" [whereby the term 'act of aggression' is not defined] and to take military and nonmilitary action to "restore international peace and security".

i.e. it can (and they evidently want to try to make it) mean that MASSIVE acts of aggression (by USA) should be used to prevent the threat of peace (by Iran). This makes the UN 'relevant', i.e. useful, to the neocon goal of US full spectrum global domination.

So when Sawers suggests 'more serious measures' and a 'Chapter VII basis', he means a Security Council resolution giving blank-check authorisation to use military force.

This would seem unlikely to be attained anytime soon, due to Russian and Chinese Veto, but as Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq have demonstrated, once you got the Puppet Leadershit of Europe dancing to your tune, such 'UN blessing' is only optional window-dressing anyway - We're a'goin' in, Gawddammit! And that is where the Brits serve their function, managing the European Leadershit and all the diplomatic pole-dancing necessary to warm it up for the Yanks.

The French and German Leadershit (the other two-thirds of 'E3') seems to have taken the anesthetic for the moment, and is actively engaged in playing a bit-part in a carefully choreographed stage-show, having been made privvy to the script (i.e. they already know in general what 'Stage 4' is, though it has not yet been reached)

This sick scenario corresponds very well with statements to the same effect by Scott Ritter some months back.

More recently he: "predicted the matter will wind up before the U.N. Security Council. The UN will give Iran a pass on sanctions. Then, John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, will deliver a speech that has already been written. It says America cannot allow Iran to threaten the United States and we must unilaterally defend ourselves. - How do I know this? I’ve talked to Bolton’s speechwriter,” Ritter said.

Ritter also predicted the military strategy for war with Iran. "First, American forces will bomb Iran. If Iranians don’t overthrow the current government, as Bush hopes they will, Iran will probably attack Israel. Then, Ritter said, the United States will drop a nuclear bomb on Iran."

John Sawers enjoys his job and welcomes your feedback on his wonderful work - you can leave him a message by clicking this link [ http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket...90545 ] and filling the 'Comment' form.

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:51

Following the two excellent contributions by BP and continuing the debate and our preparation against the very real possibility of the Crusaders attacking Iran:

1. There is a meeting organised in the Teachers Club on Saturday April 1st to discuss the way forward for all of us involved in the movement against the war, the use of Shannon by the warlords and for peace and democracy. All welcome. The meeting will be hosted by Cosantóirí Siochana / The Peace Network.
2. The iawm, in co-ordination with a number of international organisations is calling for a demonstration/leafletting/postering/vigil session outside the US Embassy on May 6th. This to coincide with the European Social Forum demo to take place in Athens on the same day.
3. We intend to invite Iranian anti-war activists to visit us here and will organise countrywide meetings on the issue. Watch this space.

In the meantime, we invite all contributions on the subject of the war - in Iraq, Afghanistan and now more likely Iran to work with Indymedia - we must debate, clear the air, energise ourselves. We cannot rely on the 'offical media' to do the job for us.

Solidarity

by Emily Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:58

Its good to hear your call and I hope that the IAWM is opening up you certainly seem more inclusive in your attitudes. You might contact the Worker-communist Party of Iran - Hekmatist . Their website is
http://www.hekmatist.com/english-index.htm
Other contact details
mail@hekmatist.com
Nasrin.jalali@gmail.com

As far as I know they have representatives in England.

They oppose the war and also oppose the Iranian regime

'The real solution lies with the people of Iran. Only through the revolutionary overthrow of the IR can the world get rid of the IR armed with atomic bombs. People of Iran do not want the IR to acquire atomic bombs. People of Iran are keen to get rid of the IR. The world, the civilised humanity and the peace loving and progressive people of the world can and should, by putting up a clear and resolute opposition to the warmongering and the dangerous atomic confrontation and by supporting the movement of the Iranian people to overthrow the IR, secure a resolution to this crisis. '

Their full statement is avaiable here

http://www.hekmatist.com/resolution-%20nuclear.k3.htm

Maybe you could get in touch with them.

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Mar 30, 2006 13:21

Have passed on the details to the comrades organising the tour.
Good to see the thread is beginning to function.
Hope you will be able to make it on Saturday

Solidarity

by Plato Thu Mar 30, 2006 13:42

Just as an aside but related to the Iran situation, the US currency is deflating quickly and will collapse when countries change to the Euro rather than the Petro-dollar to buy oil.
Gold is now $572 (up 33% in 6 months)an ounce and will rise to $750 by the years end. it is a good Idea to have 15% of your assets in Gold coins as Gold never ever looses its intrinsic value unlike hyperinflationary fiat (Debt based)money. These Dollars that the US just prints to fund its wars.
So beat ther collapse and buy precious metals.

by Ex-IAWM Thu Mar 30, 2006 13:55

1. The SWP contingent ('the leaders') of the IAWM won't touch Saturday's meeting with a barge pole. Why spend so much time and energy expelling some of the organisers from the IAWM to give them any consideration now. After all their is only one anti-war show in town.
2. Don't expect them there 'leaders' to give a toss what the WPCI thinks. The SWP mothership in conjunction with MAB have worked out the line to be followed by the franchises. The WPCI's pleas for western groups to consider supporting humanism in their country 'makes them complicit with supporting imperialism', according to the line.

Why don't you try a little test. Ask RBB or Kieran Allen (i.e. the Real IAWM) to condemn the London bombings. See the answer you get. Bet it won't be a condemnation.

No to Imperialism. No to Iranian Islamic repression.

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Mar 30, 2006 14:11

The Steering Committee of the iawm, with 3-4 SWP and 7 non SWP members present, decided last night (Wed 29th) to participate in the Saturday meeting and play a constructive role. At least four of us will be there...as for the Iranian communists, we have already invited them to contribute to this thread here with their own positions.

Also to remind the ex-IAWM friend that, following the March 18th demonstration, the proposal to shift the meeting next Saturday to a planning came from us in the iawm - among a lot of other comrades. And the meeting will be hosted by the Cosantóirí Siochana / The Peace Network.

Now what the SWP does or does not do is none of my concern - their attitude on the London bombings, the Cheney shooting, the Rice extravaganza, on whether Hamas is a suitable or not choice for the Palestinian people....all these is their monkey and they can deal with it. The iawm position, for example, on the 1916 Commemmoration is:

1916 : neither King nor Kaiser - 2006 : neither Bush nor Blair.
No the use of Shannon - End the Occupation of Iraq - No war Mongering on Iran

I hope we can all agree on that

So lets leave the rehashing of skeletons and work together. Be careful yes - be vigilant yes - but work and act together. We owe this to ourselves.

Solidarity

by Baffled Thu Mar 30, 2006 16:06

"...as for the Iranian communists, we have already invited them to contribute to this thread here with their own positions."

Who is we? And how did you go about asking them contribute to a thread on Indymedia?

by pat c Thu Mar 30, 2006 16:10

ranting doesnt help but with the way the SWP carry on its hardly strange that some will rant. the SWP libel any Iraqis or Iranians who stand up for secular rights.

take Maryam Namazie, she is an Iranian Socialist and camnpaigner for Womens rights. The SWP call her an Islamophobic because she stands up against the Islamofascist Iranian junta.

heres some stuff about Maryam:

"Maryam Namazie is a producer of TV International English, a member of the Central Council of the Organisation for Women's Liberation and Director of the Worker-communist Party of Iran's International Relations Committee. She is also co-editor of WPI Briefing. "

m.namazie@ukonline.co.uk

http://www.maryamnamazie.com/

"And don't think this reactionary rightwing political Islamic movement is only offended by a criticism of Islam or Mohammad. [I am focusing on this because it is a movement in power.] It is offended if you hold hands on the streets, have sex outside of marriage; it is offended if you are unveiled or improperly veiled; it is offended if you listen to certain music or if you teach evolution and science or if you dare to teach girls; it is offended if you are gay; if you are a woman; – many of which are by the way punishable by death or at the very least flogging and imprisonment in many countries under the rule of Islam....

It is interesting how the political Islamic movement kills, it maims, it humiliates - with Islam as its banner - and we are not even allowed to ridicule and criticise it."

"It is crucial for any successful discussion around visions of peace for the 21st century to look at the USA's adverse role in today's post-Cold War world. Iraq is a model for what the USA represents for the 21st century - insecurity, disorder, poverty and hunger, mass unemployment, destruction, carnage... No claims of weapons of mass destruction, liberation from dictatorship, a defence of rights and a war on terror can conceal its real nature. In Iraq, it is stripped naked and bare. It is itself the only state to have used the atomic bomb; it itself supported the dictatorship it has 'liberated' the people of Iraq from; it is itself the main cause of the Iraqi people's rightlessness. And despite its claims of fighting a war on terror, the USA is itself a pole of international terrorism in the world today. "

dont listen to the SWP lies she opposes imperialism and islamism.

its good to see that some in the IAWM are taking an independent line but are your decisions being implemented? it should be possible to oppose imperialism and to oppose islamic fundamentalism without the IAWM calling you an islamophobe. if you can stop the swp from doing that in the name of the iawm then great. maybe you could also keep the IAWM banners away from pro censorship and pro hijab demos.

solidarity

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Mar 30, 2006 16:41

To our friend who is baffled - if you check Emily's response further up, you would see she provided all of us some contact points for the Communist Party of Iran. Rather than quoting from their website and on their behalf, I emailed them asking them to contribute to the debate directly. See if they do. You could btw visit their site - there is some interesting stuff there.

To patc.
I fully agree with you that a movement such as the iawm cannot and will not succeed in its objectives if it is muzzled and manipulated by any political grouping - there are people from the Labour Party, from Sinn Fein, a few ex-SWPs and a whole set of independents inside the iawm who are doing very good work right now.

I understand fully what the ranting is all about - and in many respects I can sympathise. But my position is that if we can gather around the anti-war/pro-democracy vision a good number of activists, irrespective of political affiliation, we may have a chance. We may be able to make the war an election issue, we may have an influence of how Shannon is (mis)used, we may be able to combine diverse forms of action in our struggle. Above all, and that's my personal major stance, we may be able of building a movement against the war mongering that goes on against the people of Iran without falling into the trap of supporting the mullahs - the IR (Iranian regime) as the Iranian comrades call it.

At the moment most of our SWP friends are going along with that...without personalising the debate, let us not imagine for a moment that people cannot think for themselves just because they pay a sub to a party or wear a black shamrock. That leads to a anti-leftist, anti-political path. Enough said

Solidarity

by Tank Girl Thu Mar 30, 2006 19:02

Michael I am genuinely happy to hear that an independent soul is on the IAWM steering group. Are you long on the group? Maybe you dont know about the SWPs past skullduggery. I wont go into detail but many were expelled or hounded out of the IAWM by the SWP. If you had a month to spare you could do a search on the Indymedia archives and read up on it.

But lets look to the future, hopefully joint action will come from Saturdays meeting. But to follow on from that you could propose at the IAWM steering group that all of those who were expelled or left be invited back.

Lets have a genuine open conference to rebuild the Anti War Movement. One that elects any officers as well as the steering group. Richard Boyd Barrett wears his various titles like a Military Dictator wears gold braid. Lets have a chair who isnt also chairing 6 other campaigns.

by circulation Sat Apr 01, 2006 15:59

> Call for international coordinated action to stop the war against
> Iran before it starts
>
> We, the organizations, institutions, initiatives, individuals
> participating at the 4th Cairo Conference...

I googled a bit and couldn't find any online reports of this declaration. That doesn't mean it's false, it just means that the information is not circulating.

The closest thing I could find was this:
http://leninology.blogspot.com/2006/03/report-from-cair....html

This "call" needs to get out beyond the "official socialist-communist-trotskist" groups if it's to be taken seriously.

by A10 Sun Apr 02, 2006 18:23

Ok you buy gold.Good idea in principle,however Ireland has never been on a gold standard.It was until we broke off from Stirling.Neither is the Euro.You cant go into a bank with ten Euros and ask for it's value in gold.
Neither is the US Dollar,it went under Nixon in 1970 somthing.
So now you have 16% of your assets in gold.Like what?Soverigns,krugerrands,maple leafs?
So now the dollar or euro collapses.You decide to go and buy somthing?Who is going to take your gold??How do you break down the denomiation of a full Soverign to pay for your tin of beans.Your gold is worth ,say $600USD.Great you just paid $600 for a tin of beans!!Gold is only of value if everyone is using it as a common currency.Then you would see true value for money return to an ecnomy.Plus if you buy gold here of intrinsinic value,IE coins or bars,not bling bling trash as sold in most jewellers.You are obliged to inform the revenue of this fact.Guess who will be calling on you with guns drawn to relive you of your gold if things go wrong???Better off investing in either cigs or booze in a post crash situation of depression or post ww1and 2 Germany,these were trade goods that had actual value,and which could be broken down into smaller units to pay for things
You wont bother the US ecnomoy,war effort,or whatever by going to dealing only in gold.

by Plato Thu Apr 06, 2006 13:31

Look when the Fiat money deflates Gold Price goes up.
so say it cost 1000 euro for a tin of beans in a crash your gold would be worth 1 million euro, as the paper currency becomes useless precious metals value go up exponetially.
I have krugerrands and I checked it out and I only have to pay 20% tax on the Gold I bought.When I sell it not to buy it.
The Euro is in fact partially backed by gold but unfortunately it is getting less and less of a percentage every year.
Gold for 5,000 years has had intrinsic value, and during the Wall street Crash bough whole industries for pennies, because they had Precious metals, they knew the crash was coming.
Check out www.kitco.com and look at the Data for the Price of Gold the last few years.
Gold will be the currency of choice when the crash happens, how will you buy cigarettes with paper money?

by Dagda Thu Apr 06, 2006 14:57

Donald Rumsfeld said: "Militarily we can handle the number of death due to the Iraq conflict.
Politically it's difficult of course.

Richard Cheney :" We are in Iraq because it's do-able"

Everyone seems to have forgotten about North Korea. I seem to remember their leader threatening to sell his wmd to the highest bidder if he wasn't give his chocolate biscuits .
Given the rhetoric we hear about terrorism and the threat of rogue nations giving their weapons to the the terrorists, i thought we'd be at war with North Korea already.

anyway back to Iran:

A war(iraq wasn't a war, by the way) with Iran would entail siginficant losses militarily and politicially the fall out would be a disaster.

Another sailent point, Iran can severely disrupt the world economy by the damage they can unleash in the hormuz(?) strait. As I believe a lot of the oil that is exported around the world goes through this strait.

could it be America and her coalition of the bribed haven't the stomach for a proper fight. Of course they'd win but at heavy cost militarily and economically .

So the straussian philosophers won't have their way this time.

rather you can expect the cia and their friends to continue to foment civil unrest in Iran. you may even see MI5 and the CIA furtively supporting minority groups in the country. This would be funny considering America is displeased with Iran for meddling in Iraq

the Iranian exiles with their bottle black hair and neatly pressed suit
will continue to give dire warnings about the consequences of in-action. it won't matter if down the line they are proved to have been lying or unreliable just to further their aim.

which of you remember Con Coughlin's(the security editor of the Daily Telegraph) report on iraq's hidden wmd and how the Americans were going to use their new toys to Penetrate and destroy these deep underground facilities storing these weapons

According to Con a reliable Iraqi general who had been turned told the American where these bunkers were located

in reponse to this article. the Iraqi foreign minister said:
instead of wasting millions of dollars and prosecuting an invasion why not give this clandestine information to the UN....

Quality reporting once again from the Daily Telegraph.

I'm sure though Con has got it right over Iran. Also those various commentators who admitted to getting it badly wrong over Iraq, or in fact right this time about Iran.

still who cares if they prove to be wrong again. "we are where are"

by Dagda Thu Apr 06, 2006 14:58

Donald Rumsfeld said: "Militarily we can handle the number of death due to the Iraq conflict.
Politically it's difficult of course.

Richard Cheney : "We are in Iraq because it's do-able"

Everyone seems to have forgotten about North Korea. I seem to remember their leader threatening to sell his wmd to the highest bidder if he wasn't give his chocolate biscuits .
Given the rhetoric we hear about terrorism and the threat of rogue nations giving their weapons to the the terrorists, i thought we'd be at war with North Korea already.

anyway back to Iran:

A war(iraq wasn't a war, by the way) with Iran would entail siginficant losses militarily and politicially the fall out would be a disaster.

Another sailent point, Iran can severely disrupt the world economy by the damage they can unleash in the hormuz(?) strait. As I believe a lot of the oil that is exported around the world goes through this strait.

could it be America and her coalition of the bribed haven't the stomach for a proper fight. Of course they'd win but at heavy cost militarily and economically .

So the straussian philosophers won't have their way this time.

rather you can expect the cia and their friends to continue to foment civil unrest in Iran. you may even see MI5 and the CIA furtively supporting minority groups in the country. This would be funny considering America is displeased with Iran for meddling in Iraq

the Iranian exiles with their bottle black hair and neatly pressed suit
will continue to give dire warnings about the consequences of in-action. it won't matter if down the line they are proved to have been lying or unreliable just to further their aim.

which of you remember Con Coughlin's(the security editor of the Daily Telegraph) report on iraq's hidden wmd and how the Americans were going to use their new toys to Penetrate and destroy these deep underground facilities storing these weapons

According to Con a reliable Iraqi general, who had been turned, told the American where these sites were located

in reponse to this article. the Iraqi foreign minister said:
instead of wasting millions of dollars and prosecuting an invasion why not give this clandestine information to the UN....

Quality reporting once again from the Daily Telegraph.

I'm sure though Con has got it right over Iran.
Also those various commentators who admitted to getting it badly wrong over Iraq, or in fact right this time about Iran.

still who cares if they prove to be wrong again. "we are where we are"