Communism may be dead, but clearly not dead enough

by Mr. T. Tue Feb 28, 2006 15:26

From the article: "Despite the cruelties of the Stalin terror, there was no Soviet Treblinka or Sobibor, no extermination camps built to murder millions"

Stalin didn't need extermination camps. It was far more efficient, terrifying and effective to starve his political dissidents in their own homes. Between 1929 and 1934 Stalin murdered via man-made famine between 6 and 12 million land owning Ukrainian, Moldovan, Beylorussian, and Russian peasants.

Only idiots or blind ideologues engage in an arguments over whether Stalin was worse than Hitler. Genocidal totalitarian assholes are exactly the same - be they communist or fascist.

by Flanker Tue Feb 28, 2006 18:47

Would you call Primo Levi an idiot or "idiot or blind ideologue"? you obviously haven't read his account of surviving Auschwitz.

While recognising the horror of Stalin he stated that the worst of Stalinist barbary could not compare to Nazi/Fascist terror. Only a blinkered right wing asshole can be so simplistic because have no doubt that the gangster capitalist scum who are trying to equate Communism with Nazism have a none too hidden agenda ,i.e demonise the left and socialist thought so that neo-liberal shit can portray themselves as occupying the "moderate" middle ground and therefore become the only ever acceptable political power.

It is a long project to be sure but wait for the horrors these vermin will unleash upon us if they ever succeed.

by Headmuzik Wed Mar 01, 2006 18:52

The attempt to associate the USSR's Leninist and Stalinist regimes with socialism/communism is a tired one but it still seems to amuse some people. It is true that Stalin was a much more proficient mass murderer than Hitler, but this says absolutely nothing about communism/socialism?
State Capitalist Totalitarianism does not equate to any kind of communism/socialism worthy of the name. The true heirs of stalin might be the spartacists, if they ever got into power. Thankfully that will never happen. A reading of Noam Chomskys article "The Soviet Union Versus Socialism" is in order I think.

by Mr. T. Thu Mar 02, 2006 20:30

it would just be deleted by the thought police just like two other rebuttals.

It would appear that Mr. Flanker gets the final word by brute editorial force ... (or farce).

by pat c Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:12

some of your previous comments were deleted for excessive abuse. make those same points without being abusive and they wont be deleted.

by Mr. T. Sat Mar 04, 2006 20:05

First of all, in response to Headmuzik:

I was not the initiator of the comparison between Hitler and Stalin, USSR & Nazism, or Leninism/Stalinism = Socialism/Communism. These assertions were made by the author of the opinion piece published. Mr. Milne, the author, defends against academic criticism of “communism" (his word, not mine) by suggesting that Soviet atrocities, genocide, totalitarianism, etc were all necessary side effects of implementing the Leninist workers paradise. I quote from Mr. Milne's piece: ”For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality”. As you can see by this passage, Mr. Milne clearly uses the term “communism” to describe the Soviet totalitarian state. I would personally have preferred to use the term “totalitarian dictatorship” and “brutal despotism” when referring to the USSR, however that would have introduced terminology substantially different from the original piece. As a progressive socialist, I agree that few if any true socialist values were implemented by the USSR. That is why I also feel it so critical for the progressive left to address through analysis and introspection – and stop apologising for - the horror of what was done in the name socialism by the twisted psychopathic leaders of the Soviet regime that hijacked the term for their use.

And as for Flanker –

I respect and admire Primo Levi, and have read his “Survival in Auschwitz”. I can only surmise that Levi made the comments you supply comparing Stalin to Hitler in some other book or context altogether. You see I have a small dilemma in that over the past 2 days I’ve reread Levi’s memoirs and have yet to find a single reference comparing Hitler to Stalin in my paperback copy (Touchstone, 1995 edition). Online research has also turned up nothing to support assertions of this nature. Perhaps you would be kind enough to enlighten me as to where Levi made such claim? I would be in your debt if when doing so you provide a page number, paragraph, web URL, or and other concrete evidence. Not that I don't trust you...

The argument made by Mr. Milne and Mr. Flanker - that those who criticise soviet atrocities or Leninism/Stalinism are capitalist or fascist tools - is simply dead wrong. Many a socialist and left wing activist have refused to stay silent about atrocities perpetrated by Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others who have perverted socialisms core values. To name just one - Malcolm Muggeridge, ws a highly respected socialist journalist for the Guardian, who reported Stalins crimes in vivid detail and was not hesitant to call it what it was - genocide. He did so without ever surrendering his socialist credentials, although many left wing ignoramus' attacked him as a traitor.

The key thought I was attempting to get across was that whitewashing or rationalising Stalin’s genocide is no less morally flawed than whitewashing or rationalising Hitler’s crimes.