Indymedia Bingo!!! (from NZ)

by Chekov Sat Feb 18, 2006 03:22

A leninist attack on indymedia - oh ho ho ho. We're all 'dogmatic' anarcho-hippy conspiranoids?

What percentage of the articles here are about chickens or letils or conspiracies?

Thanks to our happily departed SWP hack - another poisoned reflection of the right's attacks on free media.

P.S. 'Dogmatic' anti-leninism is what most people call sanity.

by Chekov Sat Feb 18, 2006 03:39

1. There are 3 references to "chicken liberation" in this high-larious game. There have been 2 articles EVER posted to indymedia.ie about chicken liberation.

2. There are zero people in ireland who support the green party and call themselves anarchists - that's zero.

3. cross posting is not allowed on imc.ie and thus there are zero conspiracy articles from the US here. There are only two or three conspiracy articles from ireland on the site and they received a severely skeptical welcome.

4. Jokes about spelling on the internet are high-larious.

5. WTF is happy valley?

6. I can't recall any free lentil burgers on this site. I imagine this hilarious joke is just a way of sneering at food not bombs (who haven't posted here in a good year or so).

7. neo-nazis are banned from imc.ie

8. 'random' images are quickly removed here. Although random images are still better than talent-free photoshops that repeat brain-dead right wing smears about the free media.

9. 'Dogmatic' anti-leninism - bwahahaha. Leninism is dogmatic by definition and anti-leninism is a natural stance for anybody who noticed the 20th century and the huge pile of bodies that leninists produced.

10. The only 2 squares that have any relation to imc.ie are the anti-wto / g8 and zapatista threads - but why the fuck are you sneering at those?

Finally, this piece of brain-dead excrement is the produce of a limited mind that had to copy and paste several of the images to fill up the squares - even the right wingers do better (and they use exactly the same sneers).

by Joe C - unite workers union Sat Feb 18, 2006 04:46

as far as i know was designed by an anarchist from the blackcat group here in NZ.

It s called humour bro.
though then again i suppose socialists arent supposed to have any, eh?

Anyway, just had two strikes today in Queen Street. One at McDs and one at Starbucks.
Not bad for an old departed leninist hack, eh?

And for the record- Indymedia rocks.
Have been known to post the odd article or two myself.

Regards to eeeekkkk and all at the collective

and keep in touch at
www.supersizemypay.com

and

www.indymedia.org.nz

by Chekov Sat Feb 18, 2006 16:08

"as far as i know was designed by an anarchist from the blackcat group here in NZ."

Translation: I'll put a disclaimer in then I'm covered to < insert bullshit here >

Joe, after some of your antics on the internet recently (spreading lies about anarchists on the internet seems to be a bit of a hobby) I'd sooner believe bertie aherne than yourself.

It's called humour bro? Only if you think regurgitating sneering stereotypes is a rib-tickler.

Socialists don't do humour - some might but you don't. You have a particular speciality in writing anonymous lies - except how many people log onto bulletin boards like U75 from NZ to write a load of bollocks about Irish anarchists? Not too anonymous joe.

We're all hippy protest warriors - oh my aching sides that's just so funny. Never heard it before either - oh wait, I think there's a similar line in humour over at shitefront.

by liberty belle Sat Feb 18, 2006 17:36

well Joe, looks like you got hit by one another of indymedia's features: peer review!

by vdu Sun Feb 19, 2006 03:15

The original article is here

http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/41369/index.php

Its posted by Nick kelly, who as memory serves from my days down under is not a member of blackcat (an esteemed auckland based anarchist group) but is a micro-party-socialist(much like joe) from the wellington area, who was involved in the anti capitalist alliance (front group in the standard swp-style mould)

The reference to happy valley is a campaign to stop destruction of a place outside wellington called happy valley which is being quarried or something, mostly spearheaded I think by some enviro-anarchists and hence crops up on indymedia lots.

The reference to the chicken liberation is the fact that, love them dearly as i do, most anarchists in NZ seem to have vegan tourettes syndrome, and can't get through two sentences without saying "is that vegan?". I wouldn't mind, but I'm vegan myself but even i got fed up with it ;-)

The reference to anarchist green supporters is due to some weird political NZ history and the fact that the NZ green party used to be a bit more radical at one point i think, and also alot of anarchists in NZ seem to come at things from an envronmental angle, or at least thats where their passion stems from.

Also while joe champions the cause of the the unite union, its interesting to note that the unite union is different to most unions in that it is a lot more horizontally organised and in wellington at least was supported and assisted by anarchists or those with anarchist tendencies. It always struck me as the type of organisation that a party like joes could never have dreamt up, hampered as they are with "democratic" centralism and what not, but obviously they are more than willing to hang on its coattails, especially when it achieves success.

by Luther Blanket Mon Feb 20, 2006 04:06

Kia ora

"Its posted by Nick kelly, who as memory serves from my days down under is not a member of blackcat (an esteemed auckland based anarchist group)"

Esteemed by who? BlackCat was the result of various Unite organisers suffering from consensus-withdrawl and a couple of Infoshoppers from Canada engaged in tourist activism. Their short-lived attempt to run a flat in central Auckland as a social centre produce much heat but little light.

"but is a micro-party-socialist(much like joe) from the wellington area, who was involved in the anti capitalist alliance (front group in the standard swp-style mould)"

Actually the ACA (now the Workers Party) resulted from the merging of a highly academic autonomist influenced marxist group in Christchurch (publishers of Revolution) merging with the remnants of one of NZ's Maoist sects (publishers of the Spark). It got large enough on various campuses to be noticable for a while until all the new recruits realised they had joined a dogmatic communist sect and dropped out. Interestingly the ACA and Joe's buddies in the leninist-party-formerly-known-as-the-SWO seem to have swapped strategies. The ACA have decided they are now the beginnings of a mass revolutionary marxist party (thus the name change) and the former-SWOs are putting most of their efforts into the Worker's Charter, a social-democratic front with various old-school lefties.

"The reference to happy valley is a campaign to stop destruction of a place outside wellington called happy valley which is being quarried or something, mostly spearheaded I think by some enviro-anarchists and hence crops up on indymedia lots."

Happy Valley in near Westport, on the West Coast of the South Island and is the proposed site of an open-cast coal mine. There is a Happy Valley near Wellington but its not relevant to anything much. The Save Happy Valley coalition involves some eco-anarchists but it also involved mainstream environmental groups like Forest and Bird and limits itself to media stunts and civil disobedience rather than eco-anarchist fuck-shit-up techniques.

"The reference to the chicken liberation is the fact that, love them dearly as i do, most anarchists in NZ seem to have vegan tourettes syndrome, and can't get through two sentences without saying "is that vegan?". I wouldn't mind, but I'm vegan myself but even i got fed up with it ;-)"

Well considering we live in one of the most intensively animal-farm-ridden countries in the world I think it's a relevant issue for kiwi anarchists. There are lots of committed animal-rights heads here and they often liberate chickens and post an article on Indymedia about it and good on them. The marxists hate it coz they think it alienates the revolutionary left from flesh-slurping working class wife-beaters. Damn and blast eh?

"The reference to anarchist green supporters is due to some weird political NZ history and the fact that the NZ green party used to be a bit more radical at one point i think"

The NZ Greens are very radical for a parliamentary party and continue to give a lot of support to grassroots campaigns (social and environmental) spearheaded by anarchists. Lots of good activists are involved in it including their MPs, some of whom were active in anarchist and revolutionary left groups and will happily admit this and state that they still hold the same beliefs unlike a lot of former revolutionaries turned bank managers, union burocrats etc who write off their anarchist years as youthful hi-jinks. Some anarchists give conditional support to the Greens but not in the same way that marxists traditionally give unconditional support to Labour parties long after they have clearly sold out. The SWO here were still encouraging people to "vote Labour with no illusions" in the years after their neo-liberal reforms of the 80s.

"Also while joe champions the cause of the the unite union, its interesting to note that the unite union is different to most unions in that it is a lot more horizontally organised and in wellington at least was supported and assisted by anarchists or those with anarchist tendencies. It always struck me as the type of organisation that a party like joes could never have dreamt up, hampered as they are with "democratic" centralism and what not, but obviously they are more than willing to hang on its coattails, especially when it achieves success."

Actually Unite as it exists now is the creature of it's self-declared 'Director' Matt McCarten - former Alliance MP - and follows democratic centralism to the letter (individuals must submit to the will of the voting majority). They are only interested in recruiting in areas where they have paid organisers as they have no confidence in the ability of workers to self-organise.

Although it's more militant than any of the other unions that's not really much of an achievement because the unions is this country were busted by the Employment Contracts Act and never really recovered. Because it's new Unite has to do something different to attract membership and build its resource base, just as all the old unions once did. Whether it stays militant once it becomes established and its activist organisers get used to their regular salaries and comfy office we shall see.

by vdu Mon Feb 20, 2006 13:19

>The joys of checking your facts

Well to be honest I didn't have any hard facts, I was just going on some scant knowledge I had, as I didn't think anyone from Aotearoa was likely to pop on the site with more info. However thank you for pointing out my inaccuracies.

>>"Its posted by Nick kelly, who as memory serves from my days
>>down under is not a member of >>blackcat (an esteemed auckland
>> based anarchist group)"
>Esteemed by who?

Well by me, who else? I am of course just basing my opinion off the newssheet they had for a while when I was there. I admit I know nothing else about them.

>>"but is a micro-party-socialist(much like joe) from the
>>wellington area, who was involved in >>the anti capitalist
>>alliance (front group in the standard swp-style mould)"
>Actually the ACA (now the Workers Party) resulted from
>the merging of a highly academic autonomist influenced
>marxist group in Christchurch (publishers of Revolution)
>merging with the remnants of one of NZ's Maoist sects
>(publishers of the Spark). It got large enough on various
>campuses to be noticable for a while until all the new
>recruits realised they had joined a dogmatic communist sect
>and dropped out. Interestingly the ACA and Joe's buddies in
>the leninist-party-formerly-known-as-the-SWO seem to have swapped strategies.
>The ACA have decided they are now the beginnings of a mass
>revolutionary marxist party (thus the name change) and the
> former-SWOs are putting most of their efforts into
>the Worker's Charter, a social-democratic front with various
>old-school lefties.

Okay thanks for clarifying that! I had presumed the ACA was just another hastily cobbled together group for electioneering puposes, I now it see that it is even more complex and bizarre.

>Happy Valley in near Westport, on the West Coast of
>the South Island and is the proposed site of an open-cast
>coal mine. There is a Happy Valley near Wellington but its
>not relevant to anything much. The Save Happy Valley coalition
>involves some eco-anarchists but it also involved mainstream
>environmental groups like Forest and Bird and limits itself to
>media stunts and civil disobedience rather than eco-anarchist fuck-shit-up techniques.

Again thanks for clarifying that, i based on my ideas solely on being aware of a few people in passing that were involved.

>>"The reference to the chicken liberation is the fact that,
>>love them dearly as i do, most >>anarchists in NZ seem to
>>have vegan tourettes syndrome, and can't get through two
>>sentences without saying "is that vegan?". I wouldn't mind,
>>but I'm vegan myself but even i got fed up with it ;-)"
>Well considering we live in one of the most intensively
>animal-farm-ridden countries in the world I think it's a
>relevant issue for kiwi anarchists. There are lots of
>committed animal-rights heads here and they often liberate
>chickens and post an article on Indymedia about it and good
>on them. The marxists hate it coz they think it alienates
>the revolutionary left from flesh-slurping working class
>wife-beaters. Damn and blast eh?

Look I agree with you here, i didn't mean to knock the NZ animal right activists, i think they do great work, and as you say good on them for using indymedia to publicise their stuff.
I was just trying to explain it to an irish audience who might'nt know what the reference was, as there isn't really much (reported) animal rights stuff over here, and the proportion of activists involved primarily in animal rights in ireland doesn't appear to be as high as in NZ. I put a smiley face to show i was joking, and i'm a great believer that people's activism should reflect their passions, and if lots of NZ activists are passionate about animal rights then I say go for it. The only reason i got a bit fed up is because even though I'm a vegan, animal rights are not my main passion so I sometimes got frustrated with the amount of time and energy taken up with it, but this was my problem not anyone elses.

>Actually Unite as it exists now is the creature of it's self-declared 'Director'
>Matt McCarten - former Alliance MP - .....

Okay didn't know any of this, thanks for clarifying. I was basing my opinion on the fact that some of the organisers in the wellington area were anarchists or asscoiated with anarchists, and the beahviour of the union seemed much more in tune with grassroots methods, and the union members generaly seemed to decide themselves on what they wanted to do and demand. As you say time will tell whether this continues after more success is achieved and it grows larger.

by Visual Display Uncovered Mon Feb 20, 2006 16:50

vdu...humble pie? You are actually clueless.
What you mean to say is that you posted a load of crap based on half known stuff- making people believe that you knew what you were on about- anyway- whats new- that should be part of bingo, but it would make it easy cause there is so much of it on here.

by vdu Mon Feb 20, 2006 17:37

Are you implying i wrote what i did to be malicious?
Because that was not my intention, i just wanted clarify to irish readers some the things raised in the main post and comments that followed, as i reckoned there wouldn't be any NZ readers who might know more. I did this to best of my knowledge which as it turned out was flawed on several points.

However I did mange to clarify the following:

1) the post was made by nicky kelly, a party socialist of one stripe or another, and not Blackcat. This i think was important as in general dogmatic socialists tend to have "interesting" views on the indymedia concept, sometimes hostile, sometimes not. So some sort of joke about indymedia written by a lenisist/maoist would be seen in a different light than if it had actually been done aby a member of blackcat, who as anarchists could probably be assumed to be "friendly" to the concept of indymedia, and so a joke could be seen a joke, not a veiled attack.
2) I clarified that happy valley was a NZ campaign to do with quarrying.
3) I clarifed that NZ greens may have been a bit more radical than our own irish ones, to try and shed light for irish readers on the purported assciation between anarchists and the greens on the bingo card.
4) I clarified what the chicken liberation remarks were about in the new zealand context

Therfore i think my post was useful.

Yes i got alot of facts wrong by accident, but i put forth what i did know, because I didn't think anyone else would be able to. As it turns out someone did and gave lots more details, which is great!

Why the tone of the comments has to be so aggresive, as if I was purposely trying to hoodwink someone is beyond me!

by karlito Mon Feb 20, 2006 17:46

"Some anarchists give conditional support to the Greens but not in the same way that marxists traditionally give unconditional support to Labour parties long after they have clearly sold out"

only a little hypocritical here, ie if an anarchist does it it is "conditional" and good and honest. But as far as I am aware no marxist party ie SP, SWP,ISN calls for a vote for labour at all. Even conditionally, where you got your "unconditional" support from? very very disengenuious.