Friends Don't Let Friends Commit War Crimes

by anon Fri Feb 10, 2006 16:16

http://www.clare.ie/aboutus/Docs/December05_Minutes.pdf at page 27

it was only on renditions and not military use of the airport, and the motion wasn't even passed?

by saoirse Mon Feb 06, 2006 01:03

modern irish/eurooos and libs of st.augustine fl.
are just so enlightened and evolved they haven't kept up with any news.
can't wait until your local islaMICS start up with you,the same as they have done in fwance,denmark etc.
stupid infidels.
we gave peace a chance .
mooselimbs think we're stupid,weak and infantile.
you're all living proof.

by Seán Ryan Thu Feb 02, 2006 05:04

Trust the ladies to take the fight right to the burning bush, and kick his hissing arse. And to come out of it unscathed and vindicated no less.

Me hat's off to ye.

A permit to protest? Hopefully President Cindy will fix that abomination, or hopefully you good folks will elect somebody of her calibre who will fix it.

Solidarity and awe,
Seán

by Elaine Thu Feb 02, 2006 04:34

... against activist Cindy Sheehan on Wednesday and apologized for arresting her

"In a speech on the House floor, Woolsey said Sheehan wore a shirt that highlighted the number of dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq. "Since when is free speech conditional on whether you agree with the president of the United States?" Woolsey asked.

"How can we claim to be fighting on behalf of freedom around the world, making the world safe for freedom when we are smothering freedom here at home?" she said."

by pointer Thu Feb 02, 2006 01:02

Check it out:

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2006/01/1724235.php

by Seán Ryan Wed Feb 01, 2006 03:59

Check this out.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sheehan.arrest/

Way to go Cindy!!

Sláinte Seán

by Seán Ryan Wed Jan 25, 2006 22:53

I'm in total agreement with Dr. Coilín here.

It's come to my attention recently, that America has developed a new breed of anti-personel mine, these being called "matrix" mines. This development brings mine technology firmly into the 21st. century.

I'd like to point out that it is an offence to have a mine or to allow one cross Irish territory.

I wonder, is a mine considered part of a CIA operative's operational kit, and could any mines have crossed over Irish territory in this or any other fashion?

There were lots of mines deployed for use in Iraq, and were stored in places like Qatar. These new matrix mines have only come on line in the last few months, and have been earmarked for and deployed to Iraq.

How is it that tonnes of equipment that is considered illegal in most places on the planet considered "civilised" is transported to a theatre of oppression without a singular question or an eyebrow raised?

Sláinte,
Seán

by Mark Wed Jan 25, 2006 14:42

Fair play to ye Floridians! A demonstration like this gives us great heart in Ireland. Most Americans are afraid to speak out. "No prison can contain, the freedom that we gain when we move through fear" (lyric from a song by English folk band, Seize the day, check http://www.seizetheday.org/hammer.htm). All the best, Mark.

by Dr. Coilín ÓhAiseadha Wed Jan 25, 2006 00:46

The issue of dozens of CIA aircraft passing through Shannon is a big issue, whether they are refuelling or carrying prisoners for torture. But the passage of hundreds of troops and military cargo through Shannon is an even bigger issue, because these are being used in a war that has already caused the deaths of thousands upon thousands of Iraqi civilians.

Somehow, the issue of torture often manages to deeply move people, while the big numbers of civilian casualties seem to leave people numb. But let's keep things in perspective.

Two things to think about, please:
1. Killing people is a greater crime than torturing them. Life goes on after torture, as Verónica Michelle Bachelet Jeria has demonstrated by becoming president of Chile.
2. The numbers of innocent civilians killed by high explosives, white phosphorus, cluster bombs, bullets and other weapons in Iraq is many times the number of prisoners the CIA has abducted in the last few years. And then there are those who have died of infectious diseases such as cholera, transmitted via dirty water; exposure to the cold when terrorised out of their homes in places like Fallujah; malnutrition due to the destruction of food supply systems; and so on. All of these are also war casualties.


Please note that what Chomsky said about Shannon at the Amnesty lecture has been misrepresented in a way that distorts this perspective, and this error is being perpetuated through repetition, from one paper to the other: The Irish Times, Sunday Business Post, and now the Guardian.

At the end of the Amnesty lecture, I heard Chomsky being asked about Shannon, and I heard his reply. He said that, if even part of what he had heard about how Shannon has been used is true, then the Irish government has colluded in the "supreme international crime". This is not a reference to torture, but an unmistakable reference to the act of initiating a war of aggression.

At the Nürnberg Tribunal, Judge Jackson passed the following judgement: "to initiate a war of aggression . . . is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

As it is clear that Chomsky was referring to the facilitation of military aircraft involved in the United States' invasion of Iraq in March 2003, I was dismayed to see Deaglán de Bréadún misinterpret his statement in an article in The Irish Times the following day, as follows:
****
State may be 'guilty of war crime'
Deaglan de Breadun, Foreign Affairs Correspondent

If Shannon was being used by the CIA for transporting prisoners then the Government would be participating in a war crime as defined by the Nuremberg Tribunal after the second World War, prominent anti-war academic Noam Chomsky said last night in Dublin.
...
Commenting on the Shannon issue, he [Chomsky] said: "I can only respond conditionally. I don't know the facts. But if what you say is correct, and if in fact even a part of it is correct, yes, that's participation in what was declared at Nuremberg to be 'the supreme international crime which encompasses within itself all of the evil that follows'. Participation in that is, yes, a crime. And from then on, it's your business."
...
Irish Times, Thursday 19 January, 2006
****

The quote from Chomsky is correct, but the journalist's interpretation of it to refer to torture is mistaken.

Sorry to have to chastise you in public, Deaglán, but you just flunked history. It seems you need to go and read up on the Nürnberg Tribunal.

Note, for example, that the Tribunal held _individuals_ accountable for "crimes against peace", defined as the "planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression ... or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing...."

And, by the way, please note that the United Nations General Assembly unanimously affirmed the Nürnberg principles in 1946.

I have written a letter to the editor of The Irish Times about this and hope it is published tomorrow.

Meanwhile, if anybody sees this misidentification of the supreme international crime repeated in any other media, please forward my comments to the journalist and editors in question. Will somebody here please write to the Guardian about it?

Also, please do pass it on to Bertie and other individuals who have conspired with the Bush administration to commit the supreme international crime.

Best regards,
Coilín.

by Niall - Na Cosantóirí Síochána, the Peace Network Tue Jan 24, 2006 23:11

Greetings from Co Clare and thanks very much for your action and support. Like that logo a lot too. Rock on.

by Caitlin - Code Pink Women for Peace & Social Justice Tue Jan 24, 2006 20:47 codepinkireland at gmail dot com Ireland

commit war crimes" just after her meeting with Dermot Ahern. Cindy Sheehan's planted some powerful seeds around the globe. Seeing the fruits of those seeds is a truly beautiful thing!

by solidarity Tue Jan 24, 2006 15:03

The US anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan has again called on the Irish public to “keep the pressure” on the Irish government to stop the use of Shannon airport by the US military.
Ms Sheehan, whose soldier son Casey died in the occupation of Iraq, visited Ireland last month as a guest of the Irish Anti-War Movement and as part of a European tour.
intersting paragraph

"Ms Sheehan said in her report that foreign minister Dermot Ahern had told her that it was “going to get back to Washington” that he had met her. The minister reportedly said: “They won’t be happy. But I don’t care. It was the right thing to do.”

!!!!!!

see:

by anon Tue Jan 24, 2006 14:35

with a quick glance through the interim report from Mr Marty shows its a simple lists most of what in public domain already, and limited correspondance, disappointing, the only reference to Ireland is to accept the assurance realyed by Simon "lets not have anti-american rants sure its only a little kidnap and torture" Coveney

"The head of the Irish delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly informed me of the
many questions to the government in the Irish Parliament, and of the replies received. In
substance, the government expressed total condemnation of the practice of “extraordinary
renditions” and stated that it had never authorised any overflights of Irish territory by chartered
aircraft for that purpose."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/24_01_06_detention.pdf

by MichaelY Tue Jan 24, 2006 13:33

That's exactly what I meant. Thank you for re-inforcing my message. Regards.

by Major Woody Tue Jan 24, 2006 13:02

Michael Y I think you meant "it's been a good week for the anti war movement"

by Seán Ryan Tue Jan 24, 2006 00:26

Thanks for your support.

A good piece of work Caitlin, thanks for your help earlier re: download as well.

Sláinte,
Seán

by Caitlin - Code Pink Women for Peace & Social Justice Mon Jan 23, 2006 22:14 codepinkirealnd at gmail dot com Ireland

Or maybe someone could write to "The Guardian" about the following statement in the article Marilyn posted above:

~~~~~

But amid new concerns that Shannon may have hosted CIA "rendition" flights carrying prisoners to countries where they could be tortured, local politicians have changed their tone. Town councillors, warning that the region's reputation is being damaged, have unanimously approved a motion calling on the government to inspect US planes at the airport. Clare county council has seen wide support for a motion demanding that the Irish army inspect every CIA-chartered flight.

~~~~

http://tinyurl.com/crp65

But thanks, anonymous, for making me start searching for both minutes and news items about this issue. I'm actually finding out so much that brings great hope! and the following snippet from "Limerick Leades" tells more, including who to support with letters and emails:

~~~~~

Council to quiz Bertie on flights

SHANNON Town Council is to write to Taoiseach Bertie Ahern and the Minister for Foreign Affairs asking them to investigate claims that Shannon Airport is being used by US military aircraft carrying prisoners for torture and interrogation in other parts of the world.

Cllr Greg Duff, who tabled the motion, pointed out that the Irish Human Rights Commission had also called on the Government to investigate these claims.

He referred to reports that some aircraft involved in these covert renditions flights had been seen at Shannon.

The Government have consistently stated that it received assurances from the US that no prisoners had been brought through Shannon.

But speaking at this month's meeting of the town council, Cllr Duff said the US government had "lied" about several issues relating to the war in Iraq, such as the use of white phosphorous in military operations.

In light of this, it was not good enough for the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Dermot Ahern, to accept American assurances at face value, he said.

"We should allow monitors to board these planes," he added.

Cllr Duff received unanimous support from all the town councillors present.

Cllr Tony McMahon said Ireland was being "bullied" by the Americans into allowing them to use Shannon for military flights.

"Most people I talk to on the streets say they are convinced that there is something peculiar going on in relation to the flights that are going through," he said.

"I know there are American agents walking around the airport with guns and who knows what else on them," he said.

Cllr Geraldine Lambert said that regular inspections of all planes should take place at the airport.

"If one person has been taken through the airport for torture in another country, that is one too many," she said.

"I for one don't believe Condoleeza Rice when she says the US does not sent people anywhere for torture," she said.

Cllr Sean Hillery pointed out that if the US had nothing to hide, as they claimed, there was no reason why they should object to monitoring.

Cllr Mike McKee said that it was "hypocritical" for the US authorities to demand "unprecedented access" to information about flights coming into their country while expecting the Government to accept what they were saying at face value.

http://tinyurl.com/8v6ge

~~~~~

You can find the members at this website:

http://www.clare.ie/aboutus/aboutus.html

And here's one more snip from "Breaking News.ie", dated 6 January:

~~~~~

The use of Shannon by the US Air Force is to be raised at a meeting of Clare County Council in the coming weeks.

Local councillor Martin Conway said: “This is a widely-publicised issue and the rumours about weapons and torture prisoners are damaging the integrity and reputation of Shannon and the people Co Clare abroad.

“The Government is making enough money from the US stop-overs to pay for the deployment of Defence Forces personnel to carry out searches of the military aircraft.”


http://tinyurl.com/dcpfa

~~~~~

So maybe if we all keep looking, we'll find the information--and then act on it! Write letters, send emails to friends, family, and anyone you know who votes for these councillors. We can all make our voices heard!

Maybe it's time to bring "Cities For Peace" to Ireland!

http://www.ips-dc.org/citiesforpeace/

Please do take a look at the above link. There's lots of great ideas!

by anon Mon Jan 23, 2006 20:15

I looked for info/minutes on that didn't see them, they around. Im presuming it meaningless.

by Michael Y - IAWM Mon Jan 23, 2006 19:41

It's been a good week for the Anti War Movement. American friends in Florida (great!), Chomsky in Dublin drawing thousands, Ed eloquently counteracting official Washington lies on Prime Time, plenty of media coverage and, above all, the Shannon Town Council passing a unanimous motion against the use of their facilities as a warport - the wind of change is pumping our sails.
Let us all now join hands and organise nationally for the March 18th National Anti-War Day of Action. There will be a stall on Grafton Street every Saturday from this weekend till the 18th March at 1.00 - 3.00 opposite Mac Donalds .....let us make Shannon a big issue....we can win this one.

Well done Caitlin - solidarity

by Marilyn Bagdonas - People for Peace and Justice, St. Augustine Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:56 marstans at hotmail dot com 12 San Rafael Ct., Marineland, FL 32137 unlisted

I want to thank Indymedia Ireland and Caitlin for giving us the opportunity to express our solidarity with your struggle to keep Shannon from becoming a Warport for the U.S.
I think we helped bring awareness to this issue at our protest and I am forwarding this site along with the recent article from the Guardian
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0121-01.htm
to my list of 300+.
We are scattering our seeds, aren't we? Supporting each other this way only makes me stronger and energized to continue.
Thank you again
peace
Marilyn Bagdonas
People for Peace and Justice, St. Augustine, FL

by Edward Horgan - PANA, Peace and Neutrality Alliance Mon Jan 23, 2006 15:45

Thank you Florida for your solidarity.
The peace activists at Shannon airport in Ireland wish to say that the people of the United States are our friends, but the people of Iraq are not our enemies.
In this interdependent world our neighbours are all humankind, and we must all do all we can to stop the killing of innocent people.

Over half a million armed US troops have passed through Shannon airport on their way to the war and occupation of Iraq, which has so far seen the death of over 100,000 people, up to 46,000 of whom were children.
What crimes were these children guilty of?

Citizens of the world need to unite against violence of all kinds.
Love and peace from Ireland to the US and to the people of Iraq.
edward