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Public InquiryInterested in maladministration. Estd. 2005
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The Unoffical Action Taken By Irish Ferries SIPTU Members Deserves Our 100% Support international |
worker & community struggles and protests |
feature
 Friday November 25, 2005 21:14 by SIPTU Activist
 A SIPTU Activist Comments on the myth of social partnership stripped bare
The Industrial Relations Act of 1990 prohibits actions of this very nature.Yet the leadership of SIPTU and ICTU have done nothing to have it repealed. IBEC and the Government have made their positions very clear right from the outset of this dispute. IBEC by their attack on the trade union movement in the early stages of this dispute and their sudden descent into total silence mean that we can take it that it is IBEC that are leading the "Shock and Awe" tactics of Irish Ferries. Were we ever in doubt as to who really was setting the agenda? This government say they can do no more in this dispute.What did they do in the first place? Act as neutral observers? Let us remind ourselves how neutral this goverment is when employers exploit workers. When the most widespread abuse of workers ever uncovered in this country was revealed on the construction sites of GAMA - what was the punishment that company recieved? A massive multi-million euro contract for the construction of one of the biggest road building jobs this state has ever undertaken. IBEC and the government have made their class allegiances very clear throughout this dispute.They are our class enemies. This dispute has stripped bare the myth of social partnership. What a headache this all must be for our trade union leaders. 100% support must be given to the Irish Ferries workers. Our futures depend on it.
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The unoffical action and indeed the direct action taken by the SIPTU members on the two Irish Ferries Ships in Wales last night (November 24th) should be commenended and supported wholeheartedly by the leadership of SIPTU and ICTU. Both leaderships should now publicly support in the strongest possible terms the action taken by the Irish Ferries workers without reserve. Surely these workers must now be facing criminal proceedings by the managment and the owners of Irish Ferries?
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Comments (77 of 77)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77About 40 activists gathered at very short notice outside the G.P.O. this evening to show their solidarity with Irish Ferries workers. A major national day of action is planned for next Friday December 2nd. It has been called by SIPTU and is been backed by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions
Petition signing
Bracing the cold
Labour banner
Good Libertarian presence
has called for 'rallies' next tuesday. Bertie supports this of course being a socialist and is being seen talking tough about irish ferries all over the place.
Grand old dukes of York. Lots of them about.
"The Isle of Inishmore's chief electrical officer, Gary Jones, who is one of those onboard, said the workers were looking to protect their jobs.
"If Irish Ferries get away with this, it opens the door for every company in Ireland when it means that an Irish job is no longer safe because any company, if they wish, could turn around and say, `right, from now on, you fellows can leave and we're going to bring cheap labour in from anywhere else'.
"We've said we're willing to sail if they remove the security people they've brought on board and the officers they've brought on board," he told RTÉ."
I arrived just before six to find a good crowd of people identifiable by their banners as Shinners, Labour Party members and anarchists along with other non-aligned trade unionists standing in the freezing cold opposite the GPO between the Spire and the Christmas tree. There was notable support from a few bus drivers while we stood there but aside from that most passers by were more concerned with getting to their destination rather than lingering longer than they had to in the cold. For our own part, we stayed until about six when the cold and wind got the better of us.
The Irish workers have my full support in their protest. I wish them the best of luck. Best wishes,
Marie.
"The merry old duke of York
He Had ten thousand men
He marched his soldiers up the hill
And marched them down again
And when they were up they were up
And when they ere down they were down
And when they were only half way up
They were neither up nor down."
If Irish big business get away with this they'll get away with anything. They've thrown down the gaunlet .
How much do you think another wealthy men like Jack O Connor is going to do to try and stop them?
Wealthy men like David Begg and Jack O Conner can expect very lush seats on state boards when they retire. Strikes put them on the spot. They are part of goverment themselves and were co-opted into the state a long long time ago.
Relying on them is tom foolery. All they can be trusted to do is make sure that this dispute gets diverted into energy wasting marching while they make their deals in the background. They'll need to ensure that they keep this dispute under control.
Their interests and that of workers is very very different.
And don,t mind their talk there'll be lots of that , shit loads. Radical fighting talk, lovely talk, fine speeches thet'll get everbody fired up.
Then watch what they DO. Again very different things you'll soon notice.
The only thing new about this dispute is the ham fisted way Irish Ferries have managed it, putting the union bosses and their collegues in Goverment under no choice other than to talk the talk and say nice things....
What did they do about the GAMA workers?
Nothing of course until it came out into the open and they were forced to do a bit.
Do think they didnt know about this all along?
Go to the demo but do lots more beside.
Only strong grassroots action on the ground by workers will make a difference, make no mistake about that .
Without that the demos are only piss and wind.
Now lets get to WORK!
In 48 lines and 352 words of incendiary prose posted to a radical internet site, Noddy(56) today castigated the workers movement, individuals within it, the government, recent successful labour campaigns and the Grand Old Duke of York(241) for their performance in the Irish Ferries dispute.
Proclaiming that demos were only "piss and wind" the fearsome literary activist put forward the alternative approach "Lets Get To Work".
When questioned regarding what type of work, where, by who the tiresome campaigner for workers rights and good things everywhere had nothing more to say.
Not only a good turnout at short notice last Friday, but a good mix of people as well with Sinn Féin, Labour and libertarian activists as well as members of the Independent Workers Union coming together.
There are two things I think we can focus on. Firstly, while agreeing with the argument that going on another march through Dublin is not the most radical response it should be seen as a show of strength and we need to make sure we mobilise for it.
Secondly, there is the decision of SIPTU workers at the Dublin and Rosslare ports to refuse to allow Irish Ferries vessels to dock, a massive escalation in the dispute and a powerful message from the trade unions.
We need to find a way to be supporting those kind of blockade actions as well as, if not more so, than the march as at least they hold out the possibility of some success.
Lastly, we shouldn't lose sight of the Government's role in this and its refusal to take action.
Never said there was anything wrong with demos. Demos are positive as I said in the post.
Its never a matter of one or the other thats distorting what I said.
I said demos without organising grassroots action creates the IMAGE of action
Demos only work well when they are done as well as grassroots action , not as an end in themselves.
When people (like trade union leaders and certain political parties with 3 letters in thier name ) advocate them as being worth doing on their own , then you realise that they have their own agenda, not the movements.
They are diverting the energy away without harnessing it for change.
The 'trade union movement 'is the workers themselves. Criticising the leadership does not criticise the movement
I find it very disappointing that SIPTU are calling for a day of action over a week after this dispute started. Protests should have been held across the country last saturday and the ports blocked to all ships. This would have forced Bertie & co. to intervene. How much money will a day of protest cost the economy? If it's affordable to the economy it will be ineffective. It is this type of response from unions that has allowed this situation to develop.
In today's IT:
"Siptu had called for a national protest this Friday, but it is understood the Congress executive is more likely to organise the action on Thursday, December 8th, when schools will be closed."
The Taoiseach also warned over the weekend that if the planned national trade union day of protest went ahead on Friday it was highly likely that this would damage Ireland's image overseas.
"It could send out a negative signal that would damage efforts to attract further investment and employment to the country. I just want people to remain calm," he added.
[Extract]
However, it has emerged that the government last year opposed an EU directive designed to ensure uniform working conditions for ferry workers, irrespective of their nationality.
The proposed Ferries Directive was dropped after being opposed at the EU Council of Ministers by Ireland and several other countries. Union sources claim that the directive would have prevented Irish Ferries from replacing its Irish crews with cheaper, eastern European labour. The company intends to reflag its ships to Cyprus, also an EU member.
If SIPTU, DCTU, ICTU were serious about this they would have called a one day strike. However, given what happened yesterday with the Normandy, I wouldn't hold my breath for any type of meaningful response.
here are the names of the directors of Irish Ferries
remember these are the scum who wanted to keep quiet about the exploitation of a Filipino woman who was been payed 1 euro per hour
Non exc
Peter Crowley
John B Mc Guickan
Bernard Somers
Exc
Eammon Rothwell
Garroid o Dea
Tony Kelly
Thomas Corcoran
according to todays Irish times they are saying that the protest could be on the 8/12/
why isn't there leaflets/posters hitting the streets urging people to come out in solidarity and protest?
was the French contacted about the protest?
nice one to the workers in Rosslare last night
why isn't there leaflets/posters hitting the streets urging people to come out in solidarity and protest?
why isnt class war doing something other than bitchin about it...
Leaflets, posters etc will be circulated once the Executive of Congress hold their meeting tomorrow morning (Tuesday). They will discuss SIPTU's request for them to support a day of action. This meeting will decide:
- If the ICTU will back SIPTU's call for a day of action
- What day this will take place (December 2nd was the original date proposed by Jack O'Connor)
- What form this action will take
At this stage in the proceedings since there is no date firmly decided it is not possible to produce leaflets etc. I imagine that Dec 8th is being proposed as an alternative because it is a Day of Obligation for Roman Catholics and all (or most) RC Schools will be closed, this may facilitate a bigger turn out.
see http://www.socialistparty.net
The Socialist Workers Party says that SIPTU’s call for a national protest on December 2nd should be turned into a national strike. It points to the PAYE stoppages in the 1980s as a model that the unions should follow.
[continues]
Guys,
Could you outline what this protest is for?
Do you want to
a) make it illegal for companies to move their operations abroad. i.e. prevent factories etc from being closed and moved to the third world.
b) make it illegal for companies to contract out work which they do? I.e. make sub contracting illegal on building sites etc
c) allow sub-contracting but only if the sub contractor hires Irish staff only
d) allow sub contracting but only if the sub-contractors staff get paid the same as the original staff
Just interested as it seems alot of people are protesting against things rather than for things.....
"Do you want to
a) make it illegal for companies to move their operations abroad. i.e. prevent factories etc from being closed and moved to the third world."
I wasn't aware that Irish Ferries were moving their operation abroad. I'll ask you again, have Irish Ferries opened a new route to India?
"b) make it illegal for companies to contract out work which they do? I.e. make sub contracting illegal on building sites etc"
Irish Ferries intend to change the terms and conditions for all existing and new staff, hardly outsourcing.
"c) allow sub-contracting but only if the sub contractor hires Irish staff only"
Why can't the staff regardless of nationality be covered by Irish legislation.
"d) allow sub contracting but only if the sub-contractors staff get paid the same as the original staff"
This thread is not about sub contracting.
"Just interested as it seems alot of people are protesting against things rather than for things....."
We are protesting for something - the right to be covered by existing Irish legislation.
Martin,
i had presumed you would protest for a general solution to the problem of companies outsourcing jobs to sub contractors who use foreign labour.
But seeing as you refuse to look at the bigger picture we can focus on Irish Ferries only if you wish.
Do you have a problem with
a) The use of agency staff
b) The use of agency staff employed outside of Ireland.
c) The change of terms for existing Irish staff
What do you want Irish Ferries to do?
"Do you have a problem with
a) The use of agency staff
b) The use of agency staff employed outside of Ireland.
c) The change of terms for existing Irish staff"
Yes
"What do you want Irish Ferries to do?"
Be decent and stop acting like thugs.
The Tánaiste, Mary Harney, said this afternoon that if all sides in the dispute did not see sense, there would be no company left.
Speaking in Cork, the former Minister for Trade and Enterprise called on all sides to stand back from the brink.
She appealed to the company to use the industrial relations mechanisms of the State to bring about a resolution to the dispute.
She added she was concerned the dispute could have repercussions for the country.
I hear that extra sailings are being put on for freight by P&O etc., does this mean fellow union workers are doing extra work to relieve pressure off Irish ferries?
Friday 9th December
Irish Ferries has announced that it has withdrawn security staff from both the Isle of Inishmore and Ulysses ferries.
In a statement issued this afternoon, the company said it had made the unilateral move in anticipation of reciprocal goodwill from SIPTU officers.
The east European workers brought onto the ships last week are remaining on board.
The Unions should match this gesture and end their ( illegal ) action.
Its the company who were acting illegally. In breach of Maritime Law, without the permission of the ships Captain, they brought mercenaries and slave labour on board. The company is also in breach of a legally binding Labourt Court Ruling which has another 2 years to run.
The Trade Union Movement will put you and your fellow Neo Liberals back in your box.
Why dont you organise a demo in support of the Irish Ferries management? I can see you and Dan McLaughlin and Moore McDowell. - What do we want? Slavery! When do we want it? Now!
The Dáil is to hold a special one and a half hour debate on the situation in Irish Ferries this evening.
The debate, the first of its kind to be allowed in over four years, will begin at 5.30pm, and will feature an hour of speeches followed by half an hour of questions and answers with the relevant Minister.
I'd have used the CS gas to regain control of my property from the squatters. The management are using might and main to protect 500 onshore jobs, to keep the Irish economy competitive, to keep our transport links to our foreign trade partners economical and to defend the rights of property. Faced with this we have a small group of workers trying to prevent 90% of their colleagues getting their hoped-for voluntary severance payments. There used to be a crime called Petty Treason. It should be brought back. Whatever about them it's time the rest of you woke up and got with the program. The EU isn't going to continue forever allowing national minimum wage legislations to interfere with free movement of labour. If I can get a Latvian programmer to do the work in Latvia for me do you think that the EU is going to allow the Free State government to insist that I pay him Irish minimum wages? And if not then we are discriminating against Irish programmers vis-a-vis other directly comparable employees like carpenters. Can you justify forcing the one to compete on the world market - even if the EU is daft enough to permit such restrictive practises the WTO will hardly permit them - while cosseting the other? Or do you really want all the "high level" brain-work to migrate out furren while we keep only SIPTU-type transport and general workers here? In areas that don't compete with the furreners? Does the EU want that?
Are we aware that SIPTU are being devious? Naturally they are not out with placards saying "No Latvians here" but they are well aware that by forcing the minimum wage to be paid that most of the incentive to employ Latvians disappears and that the Latvians stay unemployed in Latvia. You must look at effects and intentions rather than the PR spin. It's like when that Democrat, FDR, brought in the minimum wages in the US at the behest of unions so as to keep black fellas out of "white" jobs. Worked a treat as well. After all if you have to pay a rate you might as well pay it for people who are already skilled on the job and bring in, as trainees, the the rellies of people who've already proved themselves on the job.
Irish Ferries on the other hand are being truely the Ireland of the Cead Mile Failtes by welcoming people from all over and not just confining their jobs to the Hibernian in-group. Have you guys not realized yet that for us to retain internationally mobile jobs that we must bring as much price competition into the non-internationally traded sector as we can possibly manage. If the going rate internationally for a call-centre worker (or whatever)is BlaaEURO then it is BlaaEURO and forcing them to pay 50EURO to get a haircut (or other service in the non-internationally traded sector) that their international peers can get for 10EURO is merely impoverishing our people compared with the foreign folk and driving our guys out of the country to work in foreign climes. Now the only way to bring competition about in haircutting is to import the workers and let them offer their home price (plus such a premium that the market will bear)to our workers in the traded sector.
In short Irish Ferries (and everyone else) should be allowed to give everyone a de facto payrise by being enabled to drop their prices. And that is made possible by allowing them to hire the cheapest workers they can find.
so €3.50 an hour for an 84 hour week is a cead mile failte. is that your ideal for ireland, the vast majority must be put in penury so that a tiny minority can live the high life?
Irish Ferries acted in breach of maritime law by bringing mercanaries and slave labour on board without the permission of the Captain. The company is also in breach of a legally binding pay agreement.
you and your fellow neolibs will now face the might of the trade union movement. if you have the courage of your convictions then you would organise a counter demo in support of Irish Ferries management. please do, i can guarantee a cead mile failte for you.
If the bosses dont have the right to hire and fire at will then we are back at the closed (racist) shop. One cannot introduce multiculturalism in each european country without being allowed the right to employ whomever from wherever. How on earth can we make the world truly free and abolish borders for business. Already we can relocate abroad or import cheap labour at home. if we aren't allowed to import cheap labour but are only allowed to export jobs, as some jobs can't be exported then this is a nationalist spoke in the wheel, of multicultarilism. Borders must remain open, workers should be freely allowed to travel and work wherever they want to, and to hire people we must be allowed to do our job, even if that means making people compulsorily redundant.
Irish Ferries shouldn't be allowed to do what it is doing to the workers there. There can be no justification for expelling all of our workmen and women. Where do they go now that they have no jobs?
They can take the generous redundancy and get a new job - unemployment is at a record low
You are so right and they could get on their bikes in the process. Good man, we need more of your type round here.
damien should organise a rally in support of irish ferries management. you are on your own damien, all dail parties condemned the company. its just you, eamon delaney and dan o'sullivan.
...expect to see more of the following argument in the run up to the 'day of action':
Back Room - Unions seek to destroy successful economic model
27 November 2005
The annual report of the National Competitiveness Council doesn't generally make it onto the list of political highlights.
The council's role is essentially to scare us all a little bit and warn that if we don't watch it, we will walk ourselves into economic trouble in jig time - to use one of the Taoiseach's favourite phrases.
Their latest report, issued last Thursday, drew most notice for its warning that property taxes and third-level fees might be required to stop other taxes which might damage employment.
In spite of the attention given to them, these recommendations were more a case of going through the motions than issuing strong demands.
Does anybody expect to see an election manifesto leaving the options open on either proposal? Nobody round here does, that's for sure.
The real significance of these reports has always been the core assumption that a low-tax, low-regulation environment is necessary for Ireland to stay competitive and, therefore, to stay successful.
Previously, there had been no significant dissent from this view. But this year was different, with the council's two trade union representatives inserting a note into the report stating that they disagreed that Ireland had to remain a low-tax, low regulation country and that Finland was an example of a successful high-tax, high-regulation country.
This was a remarkably stark statement, which directly implied that the unions believe we should aspire to being a high-tax and high-regulation country.
Leaving aside the small fact that we had both as recently as 20 years ago and reaped an economic whirlwind as a result, this reveals a lot about the mindset of our unions.
It proved, if there ever was a doubt, either that they have never really bought into the explanation of our growth accepted by most experts or that they remain focused on their members' short-term interests irrespective of the long-term consequences.
It might be easy to dismiss this statement, were it not for two important factors.
First, at a policy level the unions and the Labour Party are increasingly tied together, with Labour regularly following ICTU's lead on issues and rarely stepping out of line. This is hardly surprising with Labour led by a former Siptu official.
While his party is unlikely to make major gains at the next election, it is determined to have a central influence on any programme for government - and Fine Gael will obviously do what's necessary to get an agreement.
Second, the unions don't have to wait for the election, they have the partnership process in which to push their agenda.
They will continue to attempt to force compulsory union recognition on the most productive and competitive sectors of the economy.
They will also seek a big increase in the minimum wage, an above-inflation wage increase and no significant changes to public sector work practices.
They have already been flexing their muscles with demands which have to be satisfied before they will consider entering talks on a new partnership deal.
This is now a regular tactic which means that partnership is in an almost permanent state of crisis, the resolution of which seems to always require one more concession to the unions.
We have now reached the stage where a lot of people are asking whether the partnership process is making the unions so powerful that it is endangering the economic success it supposedly helped create.
Certainly, there is no sign of the clean and tidy, dispute-free industrial relations partnership is supposed to bring us.
Disputes are dressed up in all sorts of ways, but they're still disputes and they still end up with special side-deals, which mean that the partnership agreement is a floor rather than a ceiling for wage costs.
The unions are now threatening a free-for-all with a large number of special claims and strikes if they don't get both their pre-negotiation requirements and a generous final agreement.
Basically, the fact that their members have jobs and are much better off is irrelevant - a gun is to be held to the head of the public yet again.
The public will, of course, be the immediate loser in terms of lost services and inconvenience, but it will also suffer in the long-term through having to pay the higher taxes required to settle the disputes.
However, history shows us that this approach will also damage union members themselves.
In the private sector, escalating pay demands and regulation will lead to lost jobs and a potentially major rebalancing downwards in wage levels.
Instead of trying to protect an economic model which has delivered more for their members than anything else, the unions seem determined to tear it down if given the opportunity.
At a time where the world is hailing Ireland as a successful, globalised market economy, the unions are moving steadily leftwards inmost policy areas.
Part of this is to satisfy radical activists who try to dominate internal elections, and part of it is down to the fact they don't seem to be able to get out of a worldview formed when factory owners were working their child labour force 28 hours a day, nine days a week.
It could well be that, just when we thought the danger was over, Ireland is about to get more ideological politics.
It is increasingly clear that the left view will have strong advocates. Who will take the other side?
Fine Gael is likely to be fatally compromised by a mixture of no obvious beliefs and a heavy reliance on Labour.
Fianna Fáil - led by a self-proclaimed socialist, let us not forget - seems to be so wedded to protecting partnership and projecting a more “caring'‘ image that it is highly unlikely to pick a fight with the unions.
This leaves the intriguing possibility that the Progressive Democrats might actually benefit from a hard-line anti-tax, pro-business platform.
Who knows, they could become a safe haven for those scared by tax and regulation-loving unions? There might be more of these people around than they think.
I don't support what Irish Ferries are doing, in fact I had to move jobs myself because of outsourcing.
I can't see why the Unions are getting so hot under the collar about something that has been happening for years.
It's as if they want to create an issue to keep themselves alive.....
Up until I kind of respected you. I disagreed with you profoundly but I thought well at least he's man enough to articulate a view I am sure is held by thousands but now I think you are an absolute muppet. You say you don't support Irish Ferries but criticise the unions for making a stand against something that you don't agree with. You are a fool.
I criticise the unions for the scale of their reaction. I criticise the union for bringing a company which had offered a good redundency package to its knees. I criticise the unions for not coming up with a solution that would allow outsourcing, They must accept in an economy such as ours it is inevitable.
Just because I think outsourcing is a bad thing doesnt mean I have to agree with illegal industrial action
it's pretty clear that both sides (or all three if you include the Govt) have a case to answer. However, on the non-union side there are a good number of idiots coming out with "competitiveness" crap. Note that IF's main completitor doesn't use "outsourced" labour. On the otherhand, 90% of the IF staff have voted for redundancy. Plus, piracy is a hanging offence according to maritime law - so it's a very serious matter.
I just listened to that cretin Eamon Delany (of Magoo magazine) spouting out his anti-Union and pro-Celtic Tiger shite on the Joe Duffy show... what qualifications has this moron got to talk about anything? One dismal publication from a mediocre civil servant and suddenly they're experts on everything.
I can guess the content of the next Magill magazine - the usual contrived "oooh, so controversial" right-wing shite, backed up by one-man show Freedom Institute LockHard, W. Wankshaft....
Your point about Irish Ferries compeditors not using out sourced staff is irrelevant.
The facts are:
1) Companies will decide to outsource
2) How they come to this decision is irrelevant, as it their own decision to make.
The possible solutions are :
1) Prohibit companies from outsourcing (impossible)
2) Force companies to give generous severance to workers who have their jobs outsourced.
Obviously the only solution is number two....the unions have proposed nothing else and thats what the workers are getting anyway.
So in conclusion I can't understand all the fuss
Damien,
What you have said is crazy. You seem to be justifying the pattern of Irish people loosing their jobs. I doubt you'd be still justifying this if you claim that you too were 'outsourced'. The Irish workers deserve better than this. They are being cleansed from their jobs and the people who are putting them out of work don't care. Thats the sadening thing about this.
Padraig,
What do you propose? What is your solution?
"Your point about Irish Ferries compeditors not using out sourced staff is irrelevant."
It is relevant seen as they claim all the competitors are doing the same.
"The facts are:
1) Companies will decide to outsource"
So they may and their workers can decide to object.
"2) How they come to this decision is irrelevant, as it their own decision to make."
And f**k the workers is it?
"The possible solutions are :
1) Prohibit companies from outsourcing (impossible)"
Now is this outsourcing or agency, see you keep changing?
"2) Force companies to give generous severance to workers who have their jobs outsourced."
Or cover the workers by enforcing existing Irish legislation.
"Obviously the only solution is number two....the unions have proposed nothing else and thats what the workers are getting anyway."
We'll see and you are against what Irish Ferries are doing, you have a funny way of showing it.
"So in conclusion I can't understand all the fuss"
You are expending a lot of energy for somebody who doesn't see the fuss, don't you think?
my solution is take on the company and any others who try and act in this manner. they can be beate, theres something known as solidarity, that was demonstrated when the portworkers at rosslare turned the ship away. if irish ferries try to sell on their assets to any other compamny then they should also be boycotted.
delaney o'suulivan & their ilk are going to learn a lesson over the next couple of weeks.
Ahern vows to strengthen links with Cyprus
Ireland and Cyprus today agreed to strengthen economic, trade and cultural ties between the two countries.
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern hosted a working lunch at Government Buildings with the president of the Republic of Cyprus, Tassos Papadopoulos, who is on a three-day official visit.
Mr Ahern said after the meeting that he was pleased to welcome Mr Papadopoulos, who was previously in Ireland for the EU Accession Day on May 1 last year.
“We had a very constructive meeting,” explained Mr Ahern.
“We focused on the developing relations between Cyprus and the EU and the potential for building up our bilateral relations, both political and economic.”
A Government spokesman said today’s wide-ranging meeting also included discussions on EU developments in the run-up to the European Council meeting, enlargement issues and future budget agreements.
“Both leaders welcomed the very positive relations which exist between Cyprus and Ireland and reaffirmed their commitment to strengthening economic, trade and cultural ties,” the spokesman added.
The Seamans' Union of Ireland has voiced fears that staff may see their redundancy payments reduced because of the current industrial unrest at Irish Ferries.
The SUI is not on strike but it is in dispute with the company regarding the terms and conditions of members who wish to remain.
General Secretary Bobby Carrick said the original redundancy offer of eight weeks pay per year of service was conditional on the departing staff making themselves available to train in their replacements.
The offer stipulated that the package would be reduced if that cooperation were not forthcoming or if there were industrial action.
the truth is that many SUI members no longer want the offer. the govt have madse clear that they dont recognise this as a redundancy situation. therefore statutory redundancy will not be paid by the state. this also means that the lump sum will be taxed normally rather than get redundancy advantages. those who still accept the deal will see approx 50% lost in tax and prsi.
'No request made by Irish Ferries to use our flag' - Cypriot president
16:41 Wednesday November 30th 2005
The President of Cyprus said this afternoon that no application had been made in his country by Irish Ferries to sail its fleet under the Cypriot flag. The Oireachtas joint committee on Foreign Affairs was told today that the government of Cyprus did not want to interfere in Irish issues.
President Tassos Papadopolous told the committee that the Cypriot flag was not one of convenience
"We have been criticised in the past for our flag, we were even on a blacklisted," he said.
"We took a great deal of measures at great expense and we have now been taken off that list, so our flag is not a flag of convenience."
Damien,
My proposal for this if I were Taoiseach would be to implement the exact same legislation in the workforce like Germany has, called 'protection against outsourcing'. What this legislation does is that it makes it much harder for managers/bosses to sack their current native workers. Overall, this legislation has been a success in Germany otherwise its workforce consisting of Germans would effectively be wiped out in the morning as it lies next door to the new E.U member states. Germany did have this problem that we're encountering right now prior to bringing in this legislation.
The general secretary of the S U I Bobby Carrick works for Irish Ferries but is on sick leave for nearly 10 years. The assistant secretary Anto Cowser also works for the company he worked on the Normandy until they outsourced. He has been at home on full pay since. Both Bobby and Anto stand to get a big redundany from the company. The reason thet the uptake for the redundany package was so big among S U I members was becuse Bobby and Anto came to the ships and told everybody to sign the forms. On this set of accounts the listed executive of the union have either left the union or are deceased. When all the S U I members leave the union what will the union do? will they see their license? if so who gets the money?
The S U I will never nor have never been involved in a strike with the company.
Any chance of getting some proof or verification for those allegations? I'm not saying you're wrong but claims like that need backup to be credible.
the sui is a dodgy union and does not have democratic structures. stacey quite literally inherited the position of general secretary from his father. he is reputed to have said on hearing of his fathers death:"did he leave me the union?". Stacey had no knowledge of IR structures but what was then the Catholic Workers College (now National College of Ireland) organised a special course for him.
Phoenix and other publications have done pieces on Stacey and other SUI "leaders". Including allegations that they are the beneficial owners of slotmachines on the ferry.
The ordinary SUI members deserve our support but they are likely to be stabbed in the back by a "On the Waterfront" style leadership.
Staceys GS position was assumed by the Carrick clique some years ago. but the stacey family still have an interest in the union. its literally treated like a business. the mob are now engaged in asset stripping.
i cant understand why the IWU linked up with the SUI.
Padraig ,
You have made a rather remarkable claim in saying germany has had success in preventing outsourcing.
What you call "its workforce consisting of Germans" currently has 7 million immigrant workers.
You are also completly wrong in claiming Germany has some magic law that prevents companies outsourcing.
From Deutsche Welle:
"In the mid-1990s there was a wave of moving manufacturing jobs out of the country....But now Germany is also losing its advantage for better quality and capital-intensive jobs"
"Shifting jobs to low-wage countries to save costs isn't a particularly new phenomenon to Germany...... German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder even called corporate outsourcing efforts "unpatriotic" this spring."
" Siemens convinced German workers that 2,000 jobs would be moved to Hungary unless they moved from a 35-hour to a 40-hour workweek without added pay"
Perhaps you would like to come up with another great solution?
Link :
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1273178,00.html
Also note that Germany has the highest unemployment levels in Germany.
"The figure of 5.216 million people, or 12.6% of the working-age population, is the highest jobless rate in Europe's biggest economy since the 1930s."
Link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4307303.stm
Damien,
Germany does have this system in its workforce actually. I Was recently watching this on Euronews and that's the source that claimed Germany had this system implemented in its workforce. Germany has the highest unemployment rate in the whole E.U actually! Of couse, when you have an alp of a chancellor ruling the Country it certainly doesn't help employment, does it? Back to the point I was initially making now: Irish employers are becoming more greedy to make more and more money and yet the Government gives big companies tax breaks. Its only now that its deciding to ratify this. So they haven't done enough to help protect their own citizens from being outsourced. Irish people are being effectively 'cleansed' from their jobs and people can't even acknowledge this. Instead, we're the ones to blame for this?! Are we not supposed to defend ourselves from loosing our jobs?
What's your solution to this? What is your strategy on dealing with this problem in a fair manner?
Bob you write about accounts what do you mean?
Padraig,
Is your solution to this problem still to introduce the same legislation as germanys? The article above clearly shows the legislation has not worked in Germany, which would indicate it would not work here.
Proplems with Germanys economy are much more complex than you suggest and it is rediculous to pin all the blame the chancellor.
Irish taxation policy has nothing to do with the situation in Irish Ferries. If anything it makes Ireland more attractive to companies and therefore prevents outsourcing.
I don't really see any need for a solution, because I don't see any real problem. With unemployment levels in Ireland so low, as an economy we will not be affected by this. After all companies have been moving abroad for years, especially in the manufacturing sector.
What is much more dangerous to the economy than outsourcing are the illegal strikes which some unions are promoting.
I'll ask you again, how are Irish Ferries moving abroad?
'illegal strikes'? Don't you recognise the Labour court.
I still find it hard to believe that you actually are opposed to the actions of Irish Ferries.
Martin,
These jobs are moving abroad, this is obvious. The agency staff which boarded vessels are clearly not Irish.
This thread is aimed at recruiting support for unofficial industrial action. Check the title. By definition this is illegal. Indeed the opening paragraph of the article agrees with me. In case you have forgotten here it is :
"The Industrial Relations Act of 1990 prohibits actions of this very nature"
is an ass, it should be broken.
there was a time when all strikes were illegal and it was legal to send children up chimneys. ordinary people also did not have the right to vote.
it is only because people were prepared to break these laws that we have the rights we enjoy today.
Pat,
Your arguement is valid Pat, I think its the first time anyone has agreed with me on this thread !
But what do you want the law changed to?
D.
The discussion on the thread has been moving on since the first post.
How exacty is the company moving abroad? The routes will be the same. You are shifting the argument to suit yourself.
Notice you don't comment on any illegal actions of the company nor for that matter their refusal to work within the parameters of the official industrial relations channels. You are very selective in your condemnations.
unofficial strikes and solidarity strikes should be legal. the law can be shown to be an ass if enough people turn up at an "illegal" picket. the cops are not going to arrest and the courts are not going to imprison hundreds or thousands of people. up until berties bill, the 1990 industrial relations act, unofficial action and secondary action were legal.
but it should be remembered that irish ferries are in breach of the law at the moment. they broke a legally binding registered wage agreement. they broke maritime kaw by bringing mercanaries and slave labour on board a ship in disguise and without the permission of the ships captain or officers. the mercenaries subsequently threw their weight around demanding to see the IDs of ships officers. only the master at arms on a ship (under delegated authority from the captain) is responsible for security aboard ship. its worth noting that the ships captain never requested the officers to leave the control room.
the garda NCIB is currently investigating the cs gas issue and is also investigating complaints (from passengers) that the mercenaries mercenaries were armed with crowbars and ironbars.
What are you confused about?
Originally workers on Irish Ferries vessels worked directly for Irish Ferries, under Irish employment legislation.
Irish Ferries decided, as many companies do, to contract an agency to perform the tasks which these workers were doing.
This agency is employing staff from other countries to perform the work which had previously been done by Irish Ferries staff.
These agency staff are subject to the employment law of where they are employed, not where they perform their duties.
At the moment this practise is not illegal. However I accept Irish Ferries have broken their agreement with the union...but they have only accelaerated the process. What difference does a year or two here or there really make?
What part don't you understand Martin ?
i dont think martin is confused; rather you are. irish ferries still fly the irish flag and are therefore bound by irish law. but as i have pointed out they are also bound by maritime law which they have clearly breached.
they might not find it so easy to reflag in cyprus given the cypriot presidents comments.
So you are telling me that any Irish company which outsources work is breaking the law?
Are you taking the Mickey at this stage?
If not could you please outline how exactly it is illegal.
no, outsourcing is not illegal. but as long as the ship is irish registered the irish minimum wage laws apply. as do hours of work, holiday pay, health & safety and employment protection laws. thats the point i was making.
"as long as the ship is irish registered the irish minimum wage laws apply"
You could not be more wrong.
Empoyees are subject to the employment laws in their country of employment. It has nothing to do with their place of work.
no. i dont know where you are getting your information from. what you are suggesting would have been the case if the EU Services Directive had been passed. it was rejected. how would the GAMA workers have gotten the dept of ETE to intervene if irish law hadnt applied?
anyone working ireland, no matter what their country of origin are covered by irish employment law. this also applies to irish registered ships.
Leader of Welsh union backs Irish Ferries workers in row
THE Welsh Trade Union Congress (WTUC) has backed Irish Ferries workers, saying the outcome of the dispute could determine what sort of society was being created - both in Ireland and Britain.
And the WTUC - which represents half a million trade unionists - is to support a rally on Saturday at Pembroke Dock in Wales where four men remain barricaded in the control room of the Isle of Inishmore.
A separate national day of protest, sanctioned by the Irish congress (Ictu), is to be held in Dublin, and possibly other locations across the country, next Friday.
Brian Curtis, executive committee member of the Welsh congress, called on all members of the public to support the workers of Irish Ferries. "This is a matter of serious public concern and it could determine what sort of society we are creating for our children, both in the UK and Ireland," he said.
Full story at link.
The accounts that I mention for the S U I, are avaible from the Register of Friendly Socities on Parnell Square. The last set of acounts that they have on record are the year 96/97. On the forms returned by the union is the list of the elected executive, most of the names listed are either dead or have left the union.These accounts are available just by calling into the above office. They will even give you a copy to take away for a small charge.
Irish Ferries ought to be ashamed of themselves for forcing us from our jobs.
"illegal strikes which some unions are promoting" ?
I don't think so......
I get it. You don't want us to protest at the fact that we were wrongfully thrown from our jobs. Instead, you wan't us all to be outsourced. If the Irish people were to follow your strategy, then there would be no Irish workers left in their jobs because they would all be outsourced. The problem is not as simple as you're making it out to be. Every union has a right to protest since this is part of their constitutional right under 'Bunreacht Na hEireann'. If you were thrown from your job, you would not be saying all this. Actually, there are already some signs that these protests are having a knock on effect on Irish Ferries profits. On the RTE news last night, it emerged that certain companies are considering an 'alternative' to Irish Ferries. I know that Irish Ferries actions will only mark the start of Ireland wide protests. This is becoming more obvious by the day.. Then, and only then will they realise that their actions are not accepted by the Irish people.