Two Anarchists And A Drunk With A Dog Meet The Taoiseach

by Dogs & Class Sat Jul 07, 2007 13:35

Dublin City Council has taken the decision to ban 11 breeds of dog & crossbreeds with those strains from its residential property. Of course outsourced security guards will still be allowed walk the Alsation , but pretty soon no tenant or dweller in the 26,500 approx properties registered to the DCC http://www.dublincity.ie/
will be allowed keep a : English Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, German Shepherd (Alsatian), Doberman, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Japanese Akita, Bull Mastiff, Japanese Tosa and Bandog. Now to be quite honest there aren't that many akita's or tosa's in IReland full stop - but the decision amounts to little more than descrimination & attempts to protect the council from possible injury claims.
If those who live in the council properties don't find another home for their animal then the dublinc City Council Dog's unit "the Dog Warden Service" at Ashton Dog Pound, River Road, Castleknock, Dublin 15 will destroy them. Of course the sensitive chaps at DCC know this reeks of descrimination and class issues, scaffolding museums versus air-to-sea rescue, crytposporidium versus bottled water, swish raver wristbands versus death through misadventure toetags. But they're going to try and make it all ok by encouraging the government to extend the ban to the whole state according to Kevin Humphreys of Irish Labour as reported by the Irish Times.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/0707/11....html

by Paul Mon Nov 21, 2005 13:26

Thanks for the response Mr./ Ms. K Barry...

I concur with your assessment of the parliamentary political system. I agree with your criticisms of representative democracy. Of course the elected political elite has agenda which is narrow, an agenda which looks only to the short term, and an agenda that is selfish.

It is a bad system, but the less people engage with it, the worse it gets.

I don’t think voting is enough to change society on its own. But I do think that neglecting voting renders an already flawed system even more skewed. A boycott of the ballot box just gives more worth to the votes of other, in this case usually more conservative voters.

The system is definitely a problem: we agree on that. Power corrupts, and no matter who is in power in a representative system like ours, the system will remain a problem. But this negative situation in which we find ourselves can be mitigated if we get decent people into office. It’s not going to completely change things, but it does make some difference who is in the Dáil (and local councils). There are some men and women of integrity in the Dáil. Maybe you don’t agree, but even if you don’t think there are, then there could be. As for me, I’ve a lot of time for people like Finian McGrath, Joe Higgins, John Gormley, Tony Gregory, Michael D Higgins, and others.

None of them are perfect, but they’re better than that fellow that you challenged about Shannon on his rounds on the north side the other day. I’m certainly not saying that you should vote, sit back, do nothing else, and put your faith in the fairness of the political system. But voting is not a waste of time, and I feel it’s essential.

At the very least, if all the people who don’t usually vote – and I don’t mean just anarchists – there are plenty of apathetic consumerist people who dismiss politicians as ‘all the same’ and believe they are all corrupt – anyway, if all those people actually spent an hour every four/ five years voting for people who are at the bottom of the list and aren’t going to get into office, at least the mainstream parties would probably end up with a weakened mandate, and the system could be subverted somewhat.

Apart from anything else, there’s not enough women in there, for example.

Anyway, I do respect people who have an ideological reason for not voting a lot more than people who don’t bother, or don’t care. And I do understand why somebody would feel there’s no point in voting. I just have a different view of things, I guess – which is allowed! But I certainly think it’s more important to do other things – voting on its own is not enough.

So there’s a few thoughts for you in response to your question…

by penguin lover Sat Nov 19, 2005 19:48

I'm sorry I just assumed that you lived on Clonliffe because that's where he seems to be concentrating his energies recently. Earlier in the year he was all over Cabra like a cheap suit, but now it seems he's going up and down Clonliffe every chance he gets. It'd make your head spin...

I wouldn't dream of advocating that you actually vote, and certainly who you vote for is your business, but I implore you to get on the register.

Believe me, he knows who he's talking to, that's what the guys with the clipboards are doing. If they ID you as an unregistered person then you can say what you like and they know that they don't have to pay a blind bit of notice.

But if you're oin the register, in their world, then you count. If you say you haven't voted before, your like gold dust...

This will be Bertie's last election (more than likely) and he wants to form the next government. He needs to bring in lots of FF TD's on transfers from Labour and the Greens to do this, and that means paying attention to what the voters are saying when he meets them, but more especially they write to him.

In 2002 SF lost out in Dublin Central by 79 votes. Bertie knows this, and knows that a hundred or so supporters of the Shannon Five or Shell to Sea could lose him the second seat he so prides himself on delivering in "his" constituency.

But only if they are registered voters.

This will be repeated across the country in a lot of FF seat s with tight margins.

If he gets genuinely scared we'll see him adopt more democracy friendly policies to both these issues in the run-up to the election.

You don't even have to vote - but get registered and give him th eimpression that you're thinking of giving SF your number 1.

It'll scare the bejasus out of him.

Get registered-Get even!

by K Barry Sat Nov 19, 2005 00:22

Paul wrote "And I believe that voting is essential."

I am really not sure whether voting is an essential part of effecting social change in Ireland. What sort of impact is it going to have do you think? Parliamentary politics is dominated by a cynical and narrowly pragmatic "professional" elite. Their "solutions" are inevitably about managing rather tackling social problems and most importantly decisions are made for us rather than by us. Now I know that might sound simply like anarcho dogma but I really think it accurately describes the problem with trying to change society by voting.

The problem is that the "representational" process severely limits and shapes the sort of choices it is possible to make about how our society is structured. I can imagine circumstances in which voting might be useful but in contemporary Ireland what do you think is the point?

by Paul Thu Nov 17, 2005 17:45

Thanks for the response Michael, but I don't really agree. I don' t think that Bertie gets nailed for going back on his statements claiming to be anti-war and socialist.

He makes these statements, they reflect well on him, and then he goes and behaves with impunity as a pro-war capitalist.

He's not held to account for the inconsistency - it's just forgotten. He creates a perception that he is caring and deplores the war, and his hypocrisy is obscured.

Like K Barry, I have a negative view of our democratic system - it means that the public are disconnected from the system, leading to Bertie getting away with statements like those referred to above. But I still think we must engage with the system as well as opposing it (and as a means to oppose it), and while it's not going to cause any drastic changes, I agree that writing to politicians is worthwhile. And I believe that voting is essential. But I respect the reasons why somebody would choose not to engage: although I think it's a mistake, I can see the temptation to completely write off electoral politics.

by Michael R. Thu Nov 17, 2005 16:48

Re: Penguin Lover
Damn good idea “Penguin lover”……..

Re: Paul B

Yes he is bloody good at it, as is Tony Blair etc. We gotta become good at it too – i.e. in our case, becoming articulate and prepared in our arguments.

I don’t know if Mr. Ahern claiming to be Socialist is necessarily a bad thing. For a start it gives us Socialists and Socialism in general a good name. I know that might be a weird thing to say but the reality is that the public at large (i.e. the people who matter) still think Socialism is some outdated/weird political theory. They associate it with Communism and with Totalitarianism etc. The Americans did a very good job of destroying the name of communism and socialism (as did previous supposed communist/socialist governments) The leader of Ireland claiming to be a Socialist brings the name of Socialism back into respectability in the eyes of Joe Public.

It also reflects the pressure on the government coming from all angles to make Ireland a more fair society and to take care of its poor and its health service etc.
And finally it puts Mr. Ahern and Fianna Fail in general in a position that if they do anything anti-socialist in the future they can be nailed on it. As does he saying he is “anti-war”. Not a very good political maneuver on his part I would think. And one which the FF spin doctors, I would think, were none too happy with.

Anyhow, don’t get angry, get active!!!

by K Barry Thu Nov 17, 2005 16:33

Thanks to everyone who posted for the feedback and the comments.

Joey you said that “The war is a mess created for all the wrong reasons but it is a mess that must be seen through.” I understand your motivation for saying this but I would question what exactly is been “seen through” . The idea that the war is a bloody mistake that can somehow turned around into something positive depends, I think, on taking a lot of US state propaganda at face value. I don’t believe they invaded or are occupying Iraq to create democracy but rather to pursue the geo-political and economic interests. Unfortunately, that sort of politics doesn’t lend itself to happy endings.

A couple of you have said that Bertie is great at spinning lines. This is definitely the general perception of the man and one I shared until meeting him. But I wonder how true this is. Perhaps it is just a media cliché. Now I think he underestimates us and we overestimate him and that this will eventually trip him up and this is one of the reasons I wrote the article. After all Bertie is now often booed at events like internationals or the special Olympics.



Small thing Penguin Lover- I don't live on Clonliffe Road but strangely enough some mates of mine who do had an almost identical experience of Bertie last week. I believe he was chased away from the house after bullshitting about Shannon and the north. Hopefully this scene is being repeated on a regular basis.

The more substantive issue is whether, as you believe, it would be more effective if I had registered to vote and then wrote a letter saying I am considering voting for Sinn Fein. Well, I am not convinced that doing that is going to have much of an effect. First off he thinks I am a Shinner anyway. Secondly, it is clear that Bertie doesn’t give a toss what people think about the war and has no intention of shaping policy according to public opinion. He will say anything to curry favour as long as he doesn’t have to do anything about it. The point is that he thinks we are fooled by his nonsense. Parliamentary politics is a sand pit full of loud kids looking for attention who can stand anything except you walking away. If you don’t play his game you steal his ju-ju. Writing him letters in this case will probably only confirm his power and our subjugation to it. Bertie-baiting, by letter or in person, may sometimes be worth doing but it is hard to imagine how writing to him in this case could make a blind bit of difference.

by Penguin lover Wed Nov 16, 2005 17:22

While it's a really good thing to enter into a debate with these people, I think you and your girlfriend should think about at least registering to vote. Bertie and his friends will only take your views to heart if he believes that his party will lose seats in the next election because of their stance on Shannon and other issues like Shell to Sea.

Bertie is assured of a seat himself of course, but he's out canvassing (he's doing six hours a week when he can) because he needs to bring in a running mate, and for that he needs people to transfer to Fianna Fail.

He's very scared of Sinn Fein taking the second seat off him in Dublin Central.

My advice would be to register, and then write to him, starting off your letter with your Clonliffe Road address, and then :
"As a registered voter, I am considering to whom I should give my first preference vote at the next election. I notice that Sinn Fein Actively support the actions of the Shannon 5, and that party has also been very active in the campaign to stop Shell building a dangerous experimental gas pipeline in the north Mayo Gaeltacht. I wonder if you could tell me how your party intends to deal with these issues...".

by Paul B Tue Nov 15, 2005 18:14

Great account of challenging Bertie face to face, and I do think it was worthwhile to make the effort. The last thing any politician wants when he’s out meeting and greeting is to be challenged about something specific by somebody who’s already made up their mind and isn’t going to be convinced by their arguments. You’re messing up their public relations exercise. No matter how inarticulate you felt you were, you let him know that you disagreed, and that’s enough.

I actually walked right past Bertie on the Clonliffe Road on Saturday, but I was so sleepy and surprised that I didn’t say a thing to him. I was close enough to headbutt him. I was running late, but I went through the rest of my journey thinking of all the things I should have said to him. It makes me feel a lot better to know that somebody did stop him and tackle him about something that I feel strongly about.

Any time I see or hear the guy on the radio I am consumed with anger at the fact that he claimed to be a socialist – I think that encapsulates his opportunistic attitude to anything resembling ideology. He’s completely mercenary about what he says, as is clear from how he claimed to be anti-war. It’s incredible… The mind boggles…He’s so bloody good at it – he nearly does manage to sell himself as ‘all things to all people’.

The guy is a focus for a lot of my anger – he’s my nemesis really… I’m sure he feels the same way about me…!

Anyway, good account.

by Lara Tue Nov 15, 2005 14:50

I agree with the above comment. I think it's brilliant you and your girlfriend followed Bertie and challenged him about Shannon. I know sometimes it's easy to feel inarticulate - I had a similar feeling when Newstalk 106 were outside the Four Courts on the first day of the Pitstop Ploughshare trial. They asked me to say a few words and because it's the radio station I listen to and I thought I should be brave I agreed to answer some questions. However when I had to speak into the microphone, I got nervous and didn't feel like I spoke all that well. It's such a big topic that it's hard to get the important points across. Afterwards I tried to compensate for this by e-mailing and texting the station to show my support when they did cover the subject of Shannon (Eamon Dunphy interviewed Jimmy Massey and David Norris condemned the rendition of prisoners through Shannon when he co-hosted the lunch time show with Damien Kiberd). These small actions can feel 'a waste of time', but cumulatively they are powerful. Imagine if Bertie and his possee headed up my street next and heard about Shannon again. Good article and good action.

by Michael R. Mon Nov 14, 2005 15:27

First of all I would like to say to the author K. Barry a big thank you for putting this up here. I enjoyed the read and it motivates me further in the fight against this horrible war and capitalism/imperialism in general.

You state at the end “I am wasting my time I am not doing anyone any favors - least of all for the people of Iraq”. This is very humble view of yours but one which I do not concur with. Reasons:-

1. For a start you have given me an enjoyable lunch time break here in work and as I say motivated me further.
2. You also give a good first hand insight into the mind and presence of Bertie Ahern. The primary person in Ireland who we are all at odds with.
3. You’ve made the front page of Indymedia Ireland! Not an easy feat these days with the rapid growth of Indymedia. At current viewing figure levels this means that up to 4,000 people today alone will either see or read your article. Over the coming month up to 120,000 (unique) people will have come onto the site and have access to your article. As Indymedia recently commented “we (Indymedia incl. people like yourself) are transitioning from being a mosquito to being a serious pest in the house of Herr McDowell and chairman Bertie”

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71247

4. So you will help to give some insight and further motivate thousands of other people.
5. Every time Bertie Ahern or any other leader for that matter is confronted over an issue it helps. It may only help in a very small way but it helps. Thousands can march down in Shannon but what does Bertie see? Most likely he avoids seeing or knowing much about it. But a direct face to face confrontation is much more personal and helps. Not only on the issue of Iraq but on other issues as well. Always remember, he is actually human!!

What would be the opposite. To confront politicians on nothing and just leave them do as they please!!??

6. There is an important lesson to be learnt from your confrontation both for you and for all of us. All humanitarians and left wing people MUST become clear, coherent, concise and ready in our arguments. We pretty much know what the answers are going to be to our arguments. So we must be ready with coherent, intelligent, factual counter-arguments. The establishment is not going to simply bow over or suddenly go, oh I agree with your arguments. They will argue against us in the strongest and most professional fashion possible. “If” what we are saying is true, then with properly prepared arguments we should be able to counter-argue them and both personally & publicly win the argument.
So the lesson for everyone is get out, start reading, and prepare (write down/learn) coherent arguments on all issues which you are interested/involved in.

10 mins past me lunch break. Better get back.

Well Done & Thank You.

by Disappointed Sun Nov 13, 2005 05:53

Bertie Ahern is prepared to put forward a dishonest argument against you in order to avoid admiting that his government is in the wrong, but he does not have the moral courage to contradict a racist. Surely we deserve better than that.

by Joey Sat Nov 12, 2005 17:45

Regarding the calls for An Taoiseach Berti Ahern to condemn the war in Iraq, I strongly believe that the Taoiseach should under no circumstances advocate a total pull out of US and UK forces. Yes the reasons for the war should be admonished and George Bush should be condemned as a right wing ,fascist, war monger but unfortunately now this war is a fact and cannot simply be ended by international preasure. The Taoiseach (and other world leaders) cannot simply call for an immediate end. Without the American and British involvement what would undoubtedly happen would be the collapse of the fragile democracy (albeit a democracy serving US interests) and the establishment of a hardline Talibanesque muslim regime which would be infinitely worse than what was in place before the war. The Americans must see this through regardless of the cost because the alternative is unthinkable. An oppressive regime that will cost many their lives and will probably have to be forcably overthrown with further blood shed. Therefore the Taoiseach cannot call for an abandonment of the war.He can condemn George Bush for going to war but for the sake of Iraq, the US's next administration must not be presurised into a pull out. The war is a mess created for all the wrong reasons but it is a mess that must be seen through.

by iosaf Sat Nov 12, 2005 17:12

a weekly "meet the taoiseach" article would be great.

by Phyllis Sat Nov 12, 2005 17:00 Fermoy

Great post there about meeting Bertie. Only the dead fish swim with the stream.
I am meeting the great man next week, and will have a few minutes to expose him to facts about Ireland's reputation in middle America, which grows more tarnished by the hour.
His advisors really should get out more and see how public opinion in the US has swung so strongly against the war. Up until now, Bush has managed to fool enough of the people at home that he is the man. Right now, he depends on the silence of national heads of government, so that the folks back home do not realise that the funny ideas they are getting about their president are shared right around the world. As Bush does not get to face another election, the priority now for Halliburton et al is damage limitation, so that the Republican Party will maintain enough support to stave off the Democrat threat in the shape of Hilary Clinton.
This is not brain surgery. Bertie's advisors should be aware that the Democrats will probably win the next race to the White House, and they will take a long hard look at who stood by Bush while human rights were so evilly taken away from so many.

by paul o toole Sat Nov 12, 2005 00:49

The Irish government at this point is impotent and irrelevent
1. Our Foreign Policy is based on the possibility that GW Bush might think it...'a hostile act'... if the the Dail voted to remove facilities at Shannon. This is the line across the board of FF/PD. Murdering innocent people and destroying their country is not concidered hostile in the eyes of Bertie, Cowen, Harney,Mc Doughal? In fact they dont even concider the deaths of 100,000 Iraqis at all.
2. Questioned about Shannon last week, Dermot Aherne in the Dail avoided answering Gormley by calling him a 'hypocrite' (four times I believe), that he would have to ...'bite that bullet if he were on this side of the house'... In other words, Gormleys question touched a nerve that Aherne couldnot answer as minister. He is un-accountable to the opposition and un accountable to the people, which begs the question-who is he accountable to if not the people of Ireland?
3. What did Bertie say about Sadam?..isnt it good that he is gone.?? The Irish govermnent supported Sadam throughout the 80,s by opening up an Embassy in Baghdad to sell him beef to feed the republican guard while they were comitting the crimes that they are now found guilty of.
4. Our judiciary cannot find the courage to examine its relationship to GW Bush as in the case of the ploughshares court collapse when it was discovered that the judge Donnagh Mac Donnagh was invited to a conference in Texas with Bush Jnr. The first case collapsed also on the grounds of bias.
5. This countries natural resources are handed over to Big oil companies . The Corrib gas fields have been given to S hell for free. Free.Free.
Big coorporations and private individuals are buying up our health service, transport, Toll bridges (18 to come), universities, communications networks, power grid, etc which was by the way, all owned by us once upon a time. This is progress.

According to Bernardos 50,000 kids go to bed hungry every night in the New Ireland. The opposition knows this and by not doing their job it tells me they actually support this policy.

I cant wait for the elections, but by then Iran will be destroyed im sure.