Upcoming Events

National | Anti-War / Imperialism

no events match your query!

New Events

National

no events posted in last week

Blog Feeds

Anti-Empire

Anti-Empire

offsite link North Korea Increases Aid to Russia, Mos... Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:29 | Marko Marjanovi?

offsite link Trump Assembles a War Cabinet Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:29 | Marko Marjanovi?

offsite link Slavgrinder Ramps Up Into Overdrive Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:29 | Marko Marjanovi?

offsite link ?Existential? Culling to Continue on Com... Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:28 | Marko Marjanovi?

offsite link US to Deploy Military Contractors to Ukr... Sun Nov 10, 2024 02:37 | Field Empty

Anti-Empire >>

Human Rights in Ireland
Promoting Human Rights in Ireland

Human Rights in Ireland >>

Lockdown Skeptics

The Daily Sceptic

offsite link Zelensky Says He?ll Give up Ukrainian Territory to Russia to Achieve Peace Sat Nov 30, 2024 09:00 | Will Jones
Volodymyr Zelensky said on Friday night that he was willing to cede territory to Russia to end the war for the first time on condition that Ukraine is admitted to NATO "fast".
The post Zelensky Says He’ll Give up Ukrainian Territory to Russia to Achieve Peace appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Jay Bhattacharya, My Great Barrington Declaration Co-Author, is the Right Person to Restore Integrit... Sat Nov 30, 2024 07:00 | Dr Martin Kulldorff
Martin Kulldorff says that Jay Bhattacharya, his fellow Great Barrington Declaration author, is the right person to restore integrity to public health as he succeeds at NIH a man who branded him a "fringe epidemiologist".
The post Jay Bhattacharya, My Great Barrington Declaration Co-Author, is the Right Person to Restore Integrity to Public Health appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link News Round-Up Sat Nov 30, 2024 01:30 | Toby Young
A summary of the most interesting stories in the past 24 hours that challenge the prevailing orthodoxy about the ?climate emergency?, public health ?crises? and the supposed moral defects of Western civilisation.
The post News Round-Up appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link ?Ulez Architect? and 20mph Zone Supporter Appointed New Transport Secretary Fri Nov 29, 2024 17:38 | Will Jones
One of the 'architects of Ulez' and a supporter of 20mph zones has been appointed as the new Transport Secretary?after Louise Haigh's resignation, raising fears the anti-car measures may become national policy.
The post ‘Ulez Architect’ and 20mph Zone Supporter Appointed New Transport Secretary appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Assisted Suicide Set to Be Legalised as MPs Back Bill Fri Nov 29, 2024 15:07 | Will Jones
MPs have voted in favour of legalising assisted suicide as Labour's massive majority allowed the legislation to clear its first hurdle in the House of Commons by 330 votes to 275.
The post Assisted Suicide Set to Be Legalised as MPs Back Bill appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

Lockdown Skeptics >>

Voltaire Network
Voltaire, international edition

offsite link Voltaire, International Newsletter N?110 Fri Nov 29, 2024 15:01 | en

offsite link Verbal ceasefire in Lebanon Fri Nov 29, 2024 14:52 | en

offsite link Russia Prepares to Respond to the Armageddon Wanted by the Biden Administration ... Tue Nov 26, 2024 06:56 | en

offsite link Voltaire, International Newsletter N?109 Fri Nov 22, 2024 14:00 | en

offsite link Joe Biden and Keir Starmer authorize NATO to guide ATACMS and Storm Shadows mis... Fri Nov 22, 2024 13:41 | en

Voltaire Network >>

Eat Anjem Choudary Hot Worm Stew: Why The Irish Public Has To Swallow The Hard Truth About War

category national | anti-war / imperialism | feature author Saturday November 12, 2005 21:46author by periodical progress towards something or other happening - completely self-autonomous non-organisational anti-hierarchical structure of oneauthor address that little last line of dirt that you can never get up onto the dustpan (decreases asymptotically)author phone 666 Report this post to the editors

Neutrality Schmeutrality: Islamic Radical Tells It Like It Is. Deal With It.

The subject of this opinion piece submitted to Indymedia Ireland is Anjem Choudary (also known as Omar Bakri Muhammad), a Muslim cleric who was born in Syria, participated in the 1982 revolution against the Syrian Ba'athist regime and was later given political asylum in the UK. He spoke at a debate in Trinity College on Thursday night. Choudary is well known for his extremist Islamic views and was leader of Al-Muhajiroun, an organisation whose eventual goal was to prepare the way for a global Islamic theocracy.

Extract:
Choudary's remarks pointed out something in blunt terms which anti war campaigners have been saying since 2001, when it became common knowledge that Shannon was being used as a refuelling base for US warplanes. He said that "if you allow Ireland to be used to refuel US warplanes which are going on bombing raids, what do you expect the reaction of the Muslim world to be? This is not neutrality. It is better for the Muslim world to tell you this reality, so we can change this situation, and to make sure what is taking place in other countries will not happen here in Ireland." His remarks were in the context of his argument that Ireland is open to attack by terrorist groups, because of its support for the Bush administration's war on terror.

Complete Text of Article as Submitted to Indymedia Ireland:

Islamic radical tells it like it is. Deal with it.

So predictably the remarks made by Anjem Choudary during a debate last night in Trinity College Dublin, hosted by the Philosophical Society ("The Phil", dont you know) have sparked off something of a minor outrage among politicians and sections of our reactionary media. He was speaking along with several other prominent Muslim figures (see the event posted in the calendar here: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=72909) on the motion that "this house believes 9/11 was a legitimate form of resistance of American pressure to the Islamic world."

The Phil, along with its opposite number in UCD, the L&H, enjoys courting controversial figures and putting on debates to provoke and stir shit up, outwardly for lofty ideals, but mostly because they're a pack of college 'wags' and this is just another notch in their belt to make it seem like they're "loike, so crazy, man". If you've ever had the misfortune to attend one of these debates, the level of intellectual rigour practised by the 'regulars' hovers somewhere in the vague childish student spectrum of society in-jokes, cheap witticisms of sparse wit, and smutty double entendres to compensate for the fact that following the free drink reception afterwards, they'll all be far too shitfaced to have sex.

Choudary's remarks pointed out something in blunt terms which anti war campaigners have been saying since 2001, when it became common knowledge that Shannon was being used as a refuelling base for US warplanes. He said that "if you allow Ireland to be used to refuel US warplanes which are going on bombing raids, what do you expect the reaction of the Muslim world to be? This is not neutrality. It is better for the Muslim world to tell you this reality, so we can change this situation, and to make sure what is taking place in other countries will not happen here in Ireland." His remarks were in the context of his argument that Ireland is open to attack by terrorist groups, because of its support for the Bush administration's war on terror.

What is so unpalatable about those remarks? Is it because the truth hurts? 100,000 people showed up on the streets of Dublin nearly 3 years ago to protest against the looming war on Iraq - and to call for the end of Shannon as a refuelling base. Other towns and cities in Ireland (and beyond, all around the world) also staged large antiwar marches, the like of which have not been seen since. Yet the war began anyway. And Shannon is still being used as a refuelling base. And for all the guff spouted by certain groups about a new movement emerging at the time of the F15 marches, those people never, ever came back out onto the streets again or got involved in antiwar activities.

So presumably there are a large body of people out there who read the papers every day, listen to the radio, or watch TV - who were on those marches or supported them at the time. RTE and O'Reilly's empire are not Indymedia; but occasionally there are stories about Shannon, the number of troops passing through there, the Catholic Worker trial, the CIA torture plane landing, statements from TDs about neutrality, etc. Those people know that this country is being used as an instrument of war. Is there a feeling of guilt out there? That people know, deep down in their hearts and minds, that neutrality has been breached but they cant be bothered doing anything about it? Perhaps not, but this might explain the knee-jerk reaction to Choudary's remarks.

The bottom line is: we have become involved in a war. Not just any war: George Bush's global war on terror. A vague, endless, structureless war that encompasses a fight against a strategy rather than your standard enemy of a state or faction. By allowing his planes and troops to stop here, we are on his side. There are other people out there, also religious fundamentalists who see their struggle as an eternal battle between good and evil. They are equally determined to fight. Its obvious to anyone who thinks for more than half a second that neither side particularly values human life. We are placing a knife into the hand of one side of a row that has essentially nothing to do with us. We are an accessory to the US war machine, and the sooner we openly admit that to ourselves then we can begin to face the fact that we are open to retaliation from the other side for our actions.

For too long we've skated on the thin ice of our reputation as being neutral or even somewhat vaguely revolutionary in far off places because of the "northern struggle". Ken Bigley and Margaret Hassan tried to negotiate their lives on the standing of the state in the Muslim world, and unfortunately this failed them. Remarks at the time about Shannon/Ireland being part of the UK/US alliance were played down by politicians, and dismissed as dangerous for putting the lives of hostages at further risk. Rory Carroll's abduction ended happily, but how long can we trade on the flimsy notion of not being involved in the "coalition of the willing"? Choudary's statements havent opened a can of worms, he's merely scooped the worms out and made them into a very bitter stew that we have to collectively swallow.

Do we want war on our doorstep? Imagine your rural village or town flattened by a MOAB or Daisy Cutter. Every single person you know is dead or injured. Or perhaps you wake up in the middle of the night and your skin is burning, you cant breathe, and your last memory is the cries of your family - just like the use of chemical weapons on Fallujah. But it seems that Westerners cannot relate to deaths in the Middle East or identify fully with people who live in different conditions to their own. So lets put it in terms we understand - the people of London and Madrid have seen this with their own eyes. You're on a crowded DART with your friends, enjoying the trip into town to get some food and go to the cinema - when suddenly there's a hot, sickly flash of light and a noise that splits your ears open. Each of your nerves scream with the intense heat and pain. You eventually open your eyes and there are pieces of bodies everywhere. Arms, legs, heads, fingers, genitals - all fused together in a filthy mesh of blood, flesh, metal and tears. Old and young are turned inside out, destroyed in seconds. All around you are the dead and dying, praying, crying, calling for help that may not arrive in time.

This is what war means. We either end our participation in war and make a strong, loud, defiant affirmation of peaceful resolution and call for the destruction of all arms - or we continue to support war and become victims of it ourselves. We either stop the CIA torture plane landing at Shannon - or we may have to endure the torture of losing people we love and care for. We either make our neutrality a reality instead of a half-baked concept - or we accept that we are just as much a target as any of the other participants in this conflict. War is not some abstract geopolitical game, its a brutal reality that kills people just like you and me. It has taken a Muslim fundamentalist to stir up debate, but we have been in this situation before. Maybe it will take an attack on innocent people on our own soil before we digest the truth.

 #   Title   Author   Date 
   reactionary crap     ray    Fri Nov 11, 2005 14:38 
   US use of chemicaql weapons in Falluja     organise    Fri Nov 11, 2005 14:40 
   Sick,sick sick     Truth    Fri Nov 11, 2005 15:00 
   Its not a "board"     anti BBS    Fri Nov 11, 2005 15:49 
   RTE purposefully ignores the reasonable Muslim voices     anon    Fri Nov 11, 2005 16:50 
   Shannon stopover to end within 3 years     R. Isible    Fri Nov 11, 2005 20:19 
   Protests against the Iraq war     Willis Nash    Fri Nov 11, 2005 20:27 
   That'd be shannon stopover for commercial passenger flights to from us to from dublin     eeekkkk    Fri Nov 11, 2005 20:52 
   Thanks for clarification eekk     R. Isible    Fri Nov 11, 2005 21:51 
 10   Here's a criticism: of you     R. Isible    Fri Nov 11, 2005 22:02 
 11   Protests against the Iraq war     Willis Nash    Fri Nov 11, 2005 22:49 
 12   Willis, get a clue. You've been played for a fool     redjade    Sat Nov 12, 2005 00:08 
 13   The History of Building Democracies     R. Isible    Sat Nov 12, 2005 00:12 
 14   War, Trials,Action and RBB(are u still alive?)     anonymous    Sat Nov 12, 2005 05:14 
 15   Protests against the Iraq war     Willis Nash    Sat Nov 12, 2005 09:46 
 16   So you completely accept that the USA is barbaric     R. Isible    Sat Nov 12, 2005 19:19 
 17   Think Global, Act Local     Anthony G    Sat Nov 12, 2005 20:24 
 18   Ireland is psuedo neutral     Willis Nash    Sat Nov 12, 2005 21:42 
 19   take another point as well then, please Willis -     iosaf    Sun Nov 13, 2005 13:07 
 20   Condescending, insulting and misrepresenting, it must be Bertie     Noid    Sun Nov 13, 2005 13:18 
 21   who is the real culprit?     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 13:28 
 22   John Devine     John Devine    Sun Nov 13, 2005 13:35 
 23   No one is perfect except the self righteous.     gonzo    Sun Nov 13, 2005 13:36 
 24   Stopover in Shannon     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 13:50 
 25   MEK, both Enemy and Ally     redjade    Sun Nov 13, 2005 13:58 
 26   Willis/Gonzo: You are getting me wrong.     John Devine    Sun Nov 13, 2005 14:09 
 27   John Devine's surname is eponymous     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 14:21 
 28   Enlighten us     Seditious O'Brien    Sun Nov 13, 2005 15:01 
 29   No     Tim to the mY    Sun Nov 13, 2005 16:57 
 30   Europe's throat cut while asleep     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 18:38 
 31   Greedy and feckless .... hmmm who does that remind me of?     R. Isible    Sun Nov 13, 2005 19:45 
 32   'no connection to the reality of the Irish economy and no vested interest'     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 20:26 
 33   forgot one     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 20:29 
 34   Irish economy cont.     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 21:06 
 35   Protests     Ten Foot Tall    Sun Nov 13, 2005 21:54 
 36   What is answerable to your conscience?     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 22:48 
 37   The real reason you don't say anything:     Willis Nash    Sun Nov 13, 2005 23:03 
 38   Willis, Willis, Willis....     redjade    Sun Nov 13, 2005 23:17 
 39   chasing these little boys around for rent (! ooerr missus!)     R. Isible    Sun Nov 13, 2005 23:27 
 40   IP Address     Willis Nash    Mon Nov 14, 2005 08:35 
 41   This debate: winner and loser     IP in a Blue Dress    Mon Nov 14, 2005 09:13 
 42   Stasi     Willis Nash    Mon Nov 14, 2005 09:27 
 43   John Devine. Re: Willis     John Devine    Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:20 
 44   what do you lot expect of Willis?     prankster    Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:21 
 45   willis     prankster    Mon Nov 14, 2005 13:36 
 46   to the Prankster     Willis Nash    Mon Nov 14, 2005 14:15 
 47   Do you really think Hitler was born that way Willis?     boy from brazil    Mon Nov 14, 2005 14:39 
 48   to Prankster     Willis Nash    Mon Nov 14, 2005 14:52 
 49   would rather be silly than sadistic     prankster    Mon Nov 14, 2005 15:16 
 50   shannon stopover makes Ireland a target     the shadow    Tue Nov 15, 2005 16:09 
 51   Confidental     Confidental    Tue Nov 15, 2005 21:12 
 52   Guess willie will have to crack down on the Guardian/village/wapo etc     eeekkkkk    Thu Nov 17, 2005 09:57 
 53   You Talkin To Me?     eeekkkk    Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:03 
 54   profoundly bored.     Paul    Thu Nov 17, 2005 16:53 
 55   BORN IN 1917 IN LEIDENSTADT     Jean-Jacques Goldman    Tue Nov 29, 2005 18:47 
 56   Johannesburg     Leon (personal capacity)    Tue Nov 29, 2005 19:34 
 57   The poems above, what are they all about?     Paul    Wed Nov 30, 2005 16:37 
 58   OK. Back up your point Paul     R. Isible    Wed Nov 30, 2005 19:56 
 59   Risible sophistry     Willis Nash    Wed Dec 07, 2005 18:38 
 60   Again, please quote the passages that support your assertion     R. Isible    Wed Dec 07, 2005 18:52 
 61   RE: Here's a criticism: of you     Pat    Thu Dec 08, 2005 08:13 
 62   Look, this cleric had attempted to incite racism and hatred.     K.J    Thu Jan 19, 2006 15:22 
 63   Again, KJ exact quotations please     R. Isible    Thu Jan 19, 2006 18:28 
 64   Incorrect detail     huckster6    Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:23 
 65   R Isible.....     Proud to be non muslim (oh have I offended someone!)    Mon Oct 09, 2006 13:54 
 66   So, again you can't provide a quote?     R. Isible    Mon Oct 09, 2006 16:42 


Number of comments per page
  
locked We are currently not accepting any more comments on this article.
 
© 2001-2024 Independent Media Centre Ireland. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by Independent Media Centre Ireland. Disclaimer | Privacy