Seeking non national cast and crew

by RJS Mon Oct 24, 2005 08:28

should read "Looks like it was badly taught";
& diúltacht

need a coffee

Most importantly. Good luck Faolcu with the project, and I look forward to seeing it.

by RJS Mon Oct 24, 2005 08:21

should read "Your claims to former fluency don't look that conincing"

by RJS Mon Oct 24, 2005 08:18

Thanks for showing me that great English-Irish Dictionary site; I never knew it existed, and have set about the voluntary translations.
http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/
This voluntary site is evidence that, just because the state kidnapped Gaelic for nationalist reasons, doesn’t mean we can’t reclaim it for our own. We can all contribute (unlike commercial print dictionaries).

One of the reasons Gaelic is so brilliant is that there’s no right or wrong in it. Not only do the provinces do things differently, but so do different villages, different homes even. Having said that, our claims to former fluency don't look convincing. Knowledge and understanding of a language go beyond communication of the basics.

You see language as a barrier to communication, but surely, without language, communication would be impossible. Just as each word conveys a different meaning, each language provides its own lense on the world. You write Gaelic through the lense of English. Looks like it was badly thought, then, and I don’t blame _you_ for your mistrust. In the meantime, the Gaelic perspective is a flavour I would recommend – not the only one of course.

BTW:
http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/verb
“diltach” is the word you were looking for in the aforementioned dictionary (trying to mirror the English). I would have ventured “mar a chéile’ meself, but the well of invention is deeper than all that in unhomogenised Gaelic.

by Tyler Durden Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:42

Making a small difference in a small way is the most any of us can hope to achieve.

Good luck with the film.

Maybe put up a version on video.indymedia.org when it's done? Would genuinely like to see it.

by Faolcu Sat Oct 22, 2005 00:55

The reason for the project was to make a short film using the theatrical method of devising, which co incidentally is a dramatherapy technique. In choosing to attract non nationals we were aware that there was already two irish nationals involved on behalf of wideyed and considered that in targeting the project at non nationals the project would effectively be international. This was important to us for two main reasons: it would be welcoming of those who have chosen to make their home in Ireland either permanently or temporarily and would bring people of differing nationalities together. They would be able to share experiences and information. Through the devising process they would be able to explore issues that had arisen for them and possibly resolve any conflicts that were identified. The second reason was to introduce non nationals to the arts in Ireland. We believe that this would be good for the arts as it brings with it,of necessity, a differing cultural perspective.

I can see how we were unclear, and I can see how this project can be misunderstood. It is just a little thing, that might make a little difference. Thats all.

by Faolcu Sat Oct 22, 2005 00:36

perhaps I was a bit off initially!

Anyway, it's a good point.

by Tyler Durden Sat Oct 22, 2005 00:32

since you don't seem to be able to verbalise the point behind the piece perhaps you could use your film making skills to transcend the tyranny of language and impart understanding to the audience.

People are not trying to piss you off by saying they don't see the point of a non national film...you haven't been able to explain it through words I hope you fair better with the moving image.

Actually I'm really looking forward to seeing it now!

by Faolcu Fri Oct 21, 2005 23:40

So maybe it should be a silent movie!

p.s
never did get to gaelscoil meself.

by Tyler Durden Fri Oct 21, 2005 14:51

Hola RJS,

Chuaigh me go di Gael Scoil me fein. Bhi se an dana chun caint as Bearla. Ni maith lom e ar chor ar bith. Ta mo Gaeilge ceart go leor ach bhi se a lan taim fado agus ta se faoi dearmad agam

Sorry if the spelling is a bit off, I'm very rusty. Anyway I knew somebody would take offence to the last one....all I'm saying is that Nationalism is a concept created by the State and in Ireland Gaelige is a part of that delusion. I've nothing against any language. Nor do I wish to force one on the world (Hahahaha Narf!)

All languages are barries to understanding. Homogeny of understanding wouldn't be a bad thing.

What's homogeny as Gaelige by the way?
http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/ doesn't seem to know!

Sayonara Mon Ami!

by Mark C - Teacher Wed Oct 19, 2005 20:42

I said nothing about discrimination on the basis on nationality. But having boys only teams and girls only teams is a form of discrimination (perhaps for the good) based on a prejudice (assumption as you called it).

Two Cents Please...

by Mark C - Teacher Wed Oct 19, 2005 20:38

Still, I don't think that this is going to be such a seismic shifting film that it's going to change the cultural landscape of Ireland. If someone is interested in getting a group of non-Irish people to make a short film I don't have a problem with it.

Again, Good Luck with the film.

by RJS Wed Oct 19, 2005 19:59

the separation of girls'/boys' teams at school is based on assumptions of physique and/or physical capability. What could this have to do with descrimination on the basis of nationality?

by Mark C - Teacher Wed Oct 19, 2005 17:36 mark at markconroy dot net

In school we only put boys on the boys teams and girls on the girls teams.

Good Luck with the film, your heart seems to be in the right place.

Mark.

by RJS Wed Oct 19, 2005 17:24

the connection works today, but didn't monday.
more power to indpendent media initiatives, but other stuff about media literacy and questions as to nature of this project still stand for me.

by RJS Wed Oct 19, 2005 17:17

without making a decent effort at understanding it, first.

Hence, Tyler, you'd want to be at least proficient in Gaelic before you can have a considered opinion as to its merits or demerits. You can't condemn what you don't understand. Would you have us all be homogenous English-speakers?

Equally, faolcu, this isn't a post in an internet café (have you tried Jane's suggestion?). For what it's worth, I don't mind your 'article', but as a reader, I have a right to post pertinent comments or questions without expecting abuse in return.

Wideyed's website is down or inaccessible, so, I don't know who's behind it or what its about, let alone who pays for it.

I still don't understand your project, but I don't aplogise in the slightest for trying to elicit more information for that purpose. I would have thought media literacy was a prerequisite for a film-maker.

by mr polite Wed Oct 19, 2005 03:48

you sound like a bit of a grumpy humorless bollocks who takes himself much too seriously to be honest , however Im sure your not in real life . If your excluding people from a project you should at least explain the reasons why, up there , on your high horse at the cutting edge of film making . That way people will understand at the outset why Irish nationals are excluded from a project .

by Tyler Durden Wed Oct 19, 2005 03:45

You are not a shamrock

You are not how much you can drink

You are not a Leprechaun with a pot of gold

You are not the obscure sports you play

You are not a fucking dead language

by Tyler Durden Wed Oct 19, 2005 03:30

You are not your job.

You are not the money in your bank account.

You are not the car you drive.

You are not the National Football Team.

You are not your fucking PASSPORT!

by Revolt Video Wed Oct 19, 2005 03:12 revoltvideo at hushmail dot com

You’re doing your own thing out of your own pocket and no you don't have to justify your project to anyone.

However I don't think you need to be so rude.

Nationalism/State Racism is what caused dozens of people to be deported today, sent back to the oppressive regime which they fled.

Your film reinforces the concept of "Borders", man made imaginary lines created through force and by excluding Irish passport holders you are saying that state documents are more important than direct personal experience.

For example some people have stayed in more countries than counties and don't consider themselves to be “Irish". Where your from is not who you are it's irrelevant.

As a red and black flag waving Anti-Nationalist. I genuinely have difficulty understanding the purpose of the film.

Maybe I just need to grow up?


P.S. I'll put a video up of what happened today at the GNIB shortly. You may be interested?

by faolcu Tue Oct 18, 2005 16:53

one race, humans! i agree.

I am not trying to f**k with anyone.

I am not going to debate the internal artistic direction of wideyed with you because you are not a member of the initiative.
We are doing our own thing, for our own reasons, out of our own personal beliefs with our own money.

Posting on imc does not demand that we be accountable to imc for our internal decisions anymore than it demands any other organisation should be. We broke no guidelines. We are not racists, fascists or any other type of supremicists. So if you have an opinion on how our initiative should target its projects within its defined mission then I suggest you either join us , do the work and then contribute your input or alternatively start an initiative of your own.

as to the effectiveness of our projects to date, well they have all achieved their targets, have all benifited individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds(yes disadvantaged! ) and have all been funded by the contributions of our members alone. One raised 3,000 euro for a homeless project, a womens advice centre and an addiction treatment centre. So when I say I am more interested in doing, thats what I mean.

Now go sow yourself a new black/red flag to wave, that really will change things! Sorry, but I done that in the seventies, then I grew up.

by RJS Tue Oct 18, 2005 15:26

Caucassians, Asians, Africans etc. are all the same race scientifically - dictionaries may differ because they reflect common usage of language (i.e., racist language). I prefer reality to p.

by RJS Tue Oct 18, 2005 15:24

Public actions such as posting on imc may require you to engage with the public; it's not just about courtesy, but about accountability and assuring readers that their site isn't being taken for a ride.

I blieve your bonefides now, but still have some personal reservations as to the efficacy of your an approach. This again is fair comment, and fair game because you're on imc.

A film project for the homeless, aimed at a homeless audience would be, perhaps, introspective, but I do see that the process is sometimes as important as the outcome.

Equally, fellow-prisoners might be a very niche audience, but if there were escape tips, it could be useful nonetheless.

I see nothing wrong with a heroin-addict playing the role of a heroin-addict, even if type-casting strays from the make-believe ethos of acting.

All this being said, engagement is better than exclusivity and rudeness [earlier shouting esp.].

viva accountability and deliberation!

by iosaf Tue Oct 18, 2005 14:27

thank you for answering the questions. I drip in sarcasm, as a bastard child I was brought by the sisters of mercy to the river tolka and dipped into its waters.
Best of luck with the project. If you want european mainland distribution / subtitles / translations / or just places akin to those you've aired your projects in before contact me: iosaf[at]email.com 0034-636105231
The collective i work with shoots on 35mm and Digital. We never seem to get enough cash together to post-edit the 35mm stuff. Which is a pity. The reels just gather dust, and the team go do music videos and documentaries to try and gather cash :-)
Look forward to hearing more!

by Faolcu Tue Oct 18, 2005 13:54

then look up racism.
Are all Irish one race? we are not discriminating on the basis of race. Whether you are a caucasian irish or an asian irish, if you are irish you are not eligable, nothing to do with race.

and discrimination.

imc discriminates, it has to. it discriminates against commercial ventures. You discriminate, whether to buy an apple or a bananna, discrimination is part of choice, itis a necessary factor in determining choices.

This project is targeted at non nationals, yes it discriminates. Previous projects we have run were discrimatory, we discriminated against those with homes, we discriminated against those who have never been in prison, we discriminated against those who are not heroin addicts and now we are discriminating against those who are irish passport holders, you don't like it? tough.We don't need your approval!

again, try looking up discriminate in the oed.

now, thats it. if imc editors are unhappy with this story, they have the power to remove it.

I will not be responding any further.

by bo Tue Oct 18, 2005 13:41

give the fella a break. He doesn't come across as a racist . What's the film about falouka?

by Damien Tue Oct 18, 2005 13:19

If someone posted a thread looking for a group of people and specifically excluded anybody that was not Irish there would be an outrage.

Equally I think its poor form to ask for only non nationals.

by Faolcu Tue Oct 18, 2005 13:19

Non national means non national!
So if you not an Irish national then you are a non national.
I did say non national communities, not community! visit the weblink, that way you can check out who is running the project.
I have answered all the questions put to me, even though I don't believe that I have to answer to imc, out of courtesy.

if the project were targeted at homeless would that be discriminatory against those with homes?If it were targeted at addicts would it be discriminatory against the non addicted?
Frankly I have had enough of this pedantic pc bullshit .

FFS, wise up.

OVER AND OUT!

by Jane Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:51

Sounds like you have good intentions, but a bit of an attitude problem. Why don't you look at what people are asking you, and address their queries.

If you didn't want questions, why did you post on an open publishing site, instead of sticking up posters in internet cafes, where lots of
non-nationals go to e-mail home?

There's just too little information in your original posting. Don't get annoyed when people ask questions about it.

I wonder if you'd include me as non-national, as I only moved to Dublin from London 7 months ago... or do you mean Polish, Russian, Nigerian... (as most Irish people don't consider an English woman like me, or a an American, or Canadian, and Aussie or a New Zealander to be 'non-nationals'... we're only 'foreign' and we get paid at least minimum wage.)

Saying non-national is only specific as to who you don't want, but you said your project is targeted to a specific audience.

If you want to make a short film for the 'non-national community', and I don't think that is a single community. I can understand wanting to have non-national cast, but what's the point of wanting the entire crew behind the camera being non-national?

You should bear in mind that enough of us have seen the shorter wanted ads that say little about the job, turn out to be exploitative, so if you want people to trust you, give more information, especially as most readers of this site are fairly aware of examples of exploitation of immigrant job-seekers.

Good luck with the project, but unfortunately you ARE going to have to be a bit PC... because the treatment of immigrants is a sensitive issue given the 'less than equal' status that many of them receive from Herr McDowell and IBEC.

by Faolcu Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:46

thats sweet :-)
Thanks! sarcasm is an important part of language!

do they have to be experienced actors and crew?
Not necessarily.

what medium? digital

& the script is by whom? Is a devised script based on a broad outline, essentialy using theatrical practice of devising work, yes I know it is not the "traditional" method but given the need to be inclusive of the ideas of all involved in the project we considered it the best approach.

& the production is "private"
The production is not private it is privately as opposed to publicly funded. The production is independent.

but i presume you're connected to that somehow?
of course given that wideyed are producing, my role is as project co ordinator.

"& know the director" hmm,
Don't get that one iosaf?The director is Turkish, responded to an earlier call. I think you are just used to the usual who u know bullshit that goes on in this industry in Ireland!!!

standard CV? not necessary.
screen test? Of course.
People love making movies. It is though a very expensive business. (I've done a few). Where are you thinking of showing your finished product?
Initially online, after that who knows!

Ioaf, since you visited the site you will be aware what the basis for this project is. You are not alone in having experience of filmaking/acting, I have a little myself(just finished working with tricycle at the abbey)You must also be aware that the dv revolution has made it considerably cheaper to shoot film.
So, Iosaf, do you have something positive to contribute?

by faolcu Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:04

It is not a commercial venture. It will be shot on DV, it will be a short, all of the funding is coming from wideyed(approx 4,500euro), there are 2 more actors required who need not be experienced. And quite honestly, without offence, but i am not answerable to imc. If there is a problem with promoting social initiatives on this site then remove the story.

by iosaf Tue Oct 18, 2005 02:22

thats sweet :-) do they have to be experienced actors and crew? what medium? digital? 16mm? 35mm? & the script is by whom? & the production is "private" but i presume you're connected to that somehow, "& know the director" hmm, standard CV? screen test?
People love making movies. It is though a very expensive business. (I've done a few). Where are you thinking of showing your finished product?

by RJS Tue Oct 18, 2005 02:15 the world

If you're recruiting on indymedia, should we not know where the funding is comeing from, or at least, whether it is a commercial venture?

also, thinking is not the opposite of action.

by Brian Brehon Mon Oct 17, 2005 23:36

People can only show their hospitality if theyre owrking together , not being excluded from working together . Dont see the point of this . Its not building any bridges I can see .

by faolcu Mon Oct 17, 2005 22:56

There will be aboriginal (?)Irish involved in the project.
The project is not being funded with any public money, so does not have to answer on that account. It is an ancient celtic tradition and brehon law to show hospitality to the stranger, or have the new europaddies forgotten where we came from.

Would love to debate this but I would rather use my time to do stuff rather than debate political correctness.

by Barry Mon Oct 17, 2005 20:11

Surely it would serve a much better purpose to use a cew comprising of both Irish and non nationals . Better still Irish nationals who have shown hostility to the idea of non nationals settling here . Dont see the point of excluding people from a project on the grounds of their nationality . Racism in reverse no matter what way you look at it and a bad idea in my humble opinion .

by RJS Mon Oct 17, 2005 19:31

There was no implication of disability in the first posting, of course. I invited you to draw the comparison.

The implication I was making is, that a disabled-only film project wouldbe equally tokenistic and box-building; counter-productive.

On another NEW point, this project couldn't be considered racism in reverse, because the Irish aren't a separate race, there is something disquieting about it nonetheless.

by try RAR Mon Oct 17, 2005 18:12

Have you tried calling the numbers at the top of the Residents Against Racism webpage yet? I bet they know of who can help your effort.

http://www.residentsagainstracism.org

by faolcu Mon Oct 17, 2005 16:38

there are no grants!

This is a specific project designed to cater for a specific target group. Since when does being non national imply disabled?

THIS PROJECT IS PRIVATELY FUNDED.

by RJS Mon Oct 17, 2005 16:14

does not bode well for integration or equality. Imagine having a disability only film project! tsk!

there's grants goin' for this I suppose?