Fascists Out! Campaign shuts down Nazi mail box

by hilda Sat Mar 25, 2006 15:50

At the end of the day, it is not immigrants who are to blame, but the capitalist system which brings them over here,

Big buisness corporations and money grabbing bosses, who specifically target , economies such as Poland, which has 50%, unemployment.

They know they can pay polish workers a third of what they would pay locals, to polish workers, such low wages, translate into polish money as 5 times what they could earn in a week in Poland. Poland, lithuania are EU members so they are entitled to work here legitmately.

Immigrants are not taking jobs from locals, locals are not so stupid as to work harsh conditions, long hours for shit wages, but Poles etc can, because even these shitty wages are 5 times what they could earn in their native countries.

Immigrant workers are being exploited, by companies/factory bosses who have identified a way of boosting their profits and cost cutting in terms of not having to employ locals and pay them decent wages.

Really at the end of the day, it is the nastiness and greediness of bosses and the capitalist system who are to blame and it suits them to shift the blame onto, those they exploit.

by GPJ Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:36

In response to localism...

In essence you're right, capitalism does not really care who it exploits.

Economically the west is dependant on the economic resources of Black nations, oil, copper, being two essential commodities, which the present economic system will not trade fairly.

You have found some ethnic groups who may at the moment benefit, but unfortunately this is not a good indicator of the reality.

African Americans are the eleventh wealthiest group in the world, by wage but they only own 1-2% of the wealth of the USA.
This reflects the nature of the capitalist system.

by Localism is the way forward! Fight Centralisation! Mon Sep 12, 2005 04:30

>>snobby rich capitalists ... it suits these people to channel white working class grievances about poor facilities, housing, jobs and living conditions towards ethnic minorities and coloured people and away from their well off comfortable selves.

This is garbage of the highest order! Libertarians love immigrants, because immigrants do the shity jobs that most Irish people have become too good for. How exactly do rich capitalists channel these grievance? What are the mechanisms? Looking at TV I would certainly be of the opinion that the media is pro immigrant. The news is also pro-immigrant with comments like "Ireland's economy need immigrants". And as for advertisment, most ads have Asian and/or African partisipants. But there is nothing left-wing about this. The average Irish person exploits the poor of the world on a daily bases, through consumption of goods produced by people in appauling conditions. We don't even make our own food any more, and were more than happy to destroy our planet with pollution by importing food stuffs from around the world. Right-wing thinking can be summed up by the word "Individualism". If I can benefit, then whats the problem?

You also interchange the words "facism" and "capitallism". Capitalism is right wing, but its not authoritarian like facism is. Most people in Ireland are capitalists - particularly young people. But they are also liberal, carefree and afluent. Capitalism gives people the freedom to exploit. Capitalism has longevity, facism does not. A dictatorships days are always numbered, but capitalism looks like its going to be around for some time to come.

>>It would be a good idea, not to judge people by their colour, race and religion, but to get to know them, to give them a chance to join in with the community, if they are sociable, decent people who integrate, participate and contribute socially to working class community life, then they should be allowed to do this.

Ask yourself this question. Did Irish emigration help Ireland? How liberal did emigration make us? Is Ireland better off for all the people that left our shores? I think not. As people left, our ancestors were left to fester in their own conservatism. And boy were we concervative, and boy did people suffer under that concervatism. Countries need young people, to progress socially, and we missed out on that, generation after generation. Are other countries now suffering this faith? Eastern Europe for example. If Ireland cares so much for Eastern Europeans, then why do they have to come here to work? Why don't the jobs go to them? Because the McDonalds would get cold if we had to import it, that's why! People are always thinking about how immigration effects us, but open your mind a little and think about the effects it has in a global sence. Is the third world being robbed blind of its liberal and educated people?

Most people in Ireland are happy to accept immigrants not because we have hearts of gold, but because it makes us richer. A country with a lot of rich people needs a lot of poor people. If Irish people had hearts of gold, then they'd elect people who would liberate the 20% of our population who live below the poverty line, and they might get up of their arses and protest on behalf of the Rossport 5. But they re not, simple as that.

Accepting immigrants is easy if you benifit from it. But for those who don't benifit, then thats where racism has it source. Not with the rich. After all, most Irish people are rich capitalists or haven't you noticed.

>> snobby nasty rich white dog eat dog capitalists

why white? Jews are the wealthiest people in the US. Why did the racist white dog-eat-dogers allow that then? There are also 1 million natives of India in the US who are generally associated with high skilled tech jobs and who typically bring home high wages. Again, if racism is a factor with capitalism, then why is this happening? The fact is, capitalism might be a narrowminded system which causes terrible poverty, but it is certainly not racist. An African with a doctorate would have a much easier time securing residence in Ireland, than and Irish-American dock worker. In fact, I think I'm right in saying that an Irish-American dockworder would have no chance gaining residence in Ireland. Is that racism?

by Dirt poor but a millionaire in love and friendship Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:43

Fascism is about scapegoating an easy target, redirecting political grievances about housing, jobs, poverty and blame towards easy targets, to distract people from the real cause of poverty, dog eat dog capitalists of all colours.

Fascism is about judging and bullying people superficially based purely on their colour, religion and race.

Witihin the white community, you have good and bad, you have snobby rich capitalists who look down on working class white people, and seek to keep them firmly in their place, through institutional discrimination from primary school level in education through to destruction of trade union rights in the workplace, it suits these people to channel white working class grievances about poor facilities, housing, jobs and living conditions towards ethnic minorities and coloured people and away from their well off comfortable selves.

Similarly within other communities you have good and bad. Some ethnic minorities, espeacially the rich capitalist ones, are nearly on par with fascists, within the Indian community they have the caste system, which discriminates against fellow indians and those who are darker skinned, thus bangladeshis end up at the bottom of their social pecking order, doing the menial jobs etc.

It would be a good idea, not to judge people by their colour, race and religion, but to get to know them, to give them a chance to join in with the community, if they are sociable, decent people who integrate, participate and contribute socially to working class community life, then they should be allowed to do this.

It is racism and fascism if the local community targets ethnic minorities, yet allows snobby nasty rich white dog eat dog capitalists to go about their buisness/social lives unhindered and unchecked.

by C. Carpenter - None Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:42 n6cfq at eircom dot net

Well done, Well done. The world needs more like you.

by TheTroll Fri Aug 26, 2005 16:59

The best way to deal with the neo-nazi eliment is to take up thier legitimate grievances so that all they have left to recruit is thier tired old prejudiced hate. As long as they have legitiamte issue to recruit your children, you have to live with the fear that some day you will come home from work to find 1 of your own children has a shaved head.

In the US, Neo-Nazis used the affermative action issue to great effect in recruiting members then the republicans stole the issue AND the neo-Nazis thunder. Neo-Nazis were left scrambling to find new issues to exploit. They found 1 in the Democrats and Republicans support for the Zionist crusade taking away US taxes and creating hatreds that have been comming back at Americans in the form of terrorism for decades. But since there are so many others with the same legitimate grievances, the Neo-Nazis have not been very succesfull using that grievance to recruit new members.

But as long as you leave the legitimate grievances in the streets, then it will be in the streets where those legitimate grievances will be used to recruit new members. And your only chance to stem the tide is to offer alternatives in the streets too. Why not just go national on the legitimate grievances andf settle those issues and move on from there and leave the streets safe from fascists spilling out thier bile along with those legitiamte grievances.

by oink Fri Aug 26, 2005 14:24

& be vigilant for fascist infiltration of sites, meetings and campaigns. A few fascist comments on a newswire can derail an article left by a genuine or sincere user who wants to publicise an issue or prompt a discussion between like-minded individuals. Don't think fascists just write racist comments or threaten activists with physical violence.

They often begin their infitratation with harmless comments and slowly attack other users, insult them, taunt them and twist comments, for ever trying to appear "better informed" "more representative" always "perfectly normal".

Don't give the fascist space.