Mobilise Ireland & Dissent not supportive of unionised transport to G8

by dissenter Fri Jun 24, 2005 17:23

but a bit late in the day, I'd say if you'd brought this up with either of the groups before you might have convinced them.
On ryanair though, I thought the pilots had organised themselves even if mic o'leary doesn't recognise it, i'm not sure if a boycott
of the airline has been called for or is wanted by the airlines staff. A special train would have been a good idea though, how many would you need to rent one

by Acid Fri Jun 24, 2005 17:30

should of got involved Carl. Dissent and Mobolise have been planning these buses for months now. You waited until now to write a nice piece on Indymedia. You let us all down and Im dissapointed in you.

by D'other Fri Jun 24, 2005 18:07

Have any of these unions passed motions in support of any of the mobilisations?

Maybe if they had there would have been the possibility of them subsidising the buses over through providing them themselves.

As valid as your points are, it is a real pity you didn't raise them earlier. The fact that you didn't just leaves me itching with the feeling that your just hankering to have a go.

by Unionised worker Fri Jun 24, 2005 18:08

Carl might work for ICTU and in some ways I can understand your knee jerk reactions but it's not rocket science.

by hs - sp (per cap) Fri Jun 24, 2005 18:20

Across europe at similar demonstrations the unions themselves organised trains and buses. In all the mass mobilisations I attended while I lived in Italy the CGIL (the italian SIPTU) federation organised and subsidised trains and busses. Unfortunately in Ireland the unions don't do so (or probably in england and scotland). So the question may be why don't the unions organise anything or support irish people going to the protest?
Incidently while I'm at it, the demonstrations themselves were generally called for and organised by the unions.

Don't blame a couple of dozen anarchists with no finances for not organising transport properly while the thousands strong and well financed unions did nothing.

by Amused Fri Jun 24, 2005 18:23

"I reckon if you had got on to someone like ex-ILDA Brendan Ogle (longest train strike in history in Ireland) he'd have been able to sort you out with some sort of 'special' up to Belfast if there was a large group going."

Sweet an ICTU official bigging up Brendan Ogle. Ah the irony of it all.

by dissentR Fri Jun 24, 2005 20:25

for your information Dissent! are using a unionised bus company to travel to scotland, please check your facts before making bullshit accusations.

Where's the ictu mobilisation to the g8?

There is none, the unions are more a tool for controlling workers than supporting them.

by Fri Jun 24, 2005 21:25

Yet again indymedia passes off badly written opinion pieces as a news report. "I realised this while talking to a union aquaintance in Belfast" and
"as far as I know", how about some supported factual evidence?

This piece should be removed from the newswire or at least changed to an opinion piece.

Also if you check the related link, there are two links provided by dissent in that newswire piece, one is to the (as you point out) public ferries and their unionised workforce and another for a scottish website which encourages the use of public transport (you've already covered this point, so what's there to argue). It has also been pointed out that dissent are using unionised buses. I can't find anywhere else that dissent have publicly encouraged people to use non unionised transport.

Petty, petty, petty, petty.

by Reality Check Fri Jun 24, 2005 23:32

I dont think you can criticise Indymedia for the original post. It is to me an original piece and frankly fair comment. You cant blame a Trade Unionist for raising an issue that means something to him and the wider movement. We all make mistakes! Takes a better person to learn from them.

by Lazy Fare Sun Jun 26, 2005 07:52

What does ICTU make of calls for free trade, when many of its members are kept in dues by protectionism.

TGWU (affiliates of ICTU) support MPH, but nothing practical is offered from Ireland.
http://www.tgwu.org.uk/Templates/Campaign.asp?Action=Display&NodeID=91519&int1stParentNodeID=42437&int2ndParentNodeID=42437

by Lazy type Sun Jun 26, 2005 07:55

what does ICTU make of calls for FAIR TRDE...?

by tom Joad Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:32

What a turn up for the books. ICTU reprimanding people who are active in the fight for a better world, when all ICTU do is sit on the high hole of their arse. A couple of questions carl.

What have ICTU done to unionise these non-union company's

What about the decision by your dominant member Siptu doing a sweetheart deal with Connex for Luas members joining Siptu only - and not to mention a no strike clause. leaving them at the mercy of unrestrained bully style managment dictats

What did you do support the strike action taken by the GAMA workers

why are you accepting the privatisation of Aer lingus which will open the back door to yellow pack jobs, wage and conditions and eventually usher in non-union company's into the market to drive down existing union members conditions.

The fact remains that ICTU have done ABSOLUTEY NOTHING to defend the interests of existing members let alone the mass of mainly low paid workers who aren't in unions. You are obviously not aware of the way real debate and discourse takes place out side the plush board rooms of partnership meetings, but some would say - get your own house in order before coming on here lecturing people on morals that ICTU have long ago abandoned

by Joe Sun Jun 26, 2005 14:58

ICTU of course is not something a worker can join but rather then central boy of the federation that groups together most Irish unions. So Carl is an employee of ICTU - someone who gets a wage supposadely for helping to build the unions. So really a lot of the questions thrown back at Carl are quite legtimate - where are the ICTU sponsered buses? Where even was the ICTU advise months ago when the busses were being booked? What exactly is the point at this late stage of this critical article if not simply to undermine in the eyes of indymedia.ie readers those who have put so much work into organising means for people to travel together to the G8. And why the attempt to link it to 'Stand up for your rights' when no link exists beyond the fact that some people are involved in both?

Beyond that there is something quite sad in the fact that Carl appears to have written this critique without even bothering to check if his guess that the particular bus company used was not unionised was correct! A lot of the people travelling on the buses have a view of the unions as being useless - unfortunately this article can only add to that. Which makes things a lot harder for people like the 'Stand up for your rights' crowd to challenge that viewpoint - and unlike Carl they are not drawing a wage from the unions.

by WASAD Mon Jun 27, 2005 09:46

agree with all the points made about how crap ictu are but Carl is right, union organised transport should be used where possible.

After all we should be trying to make poverty history here as well.

by the shadow Mon Jun 27, 2005 17:07

Carl made a good point- Use unionised transport when and where available.
There was no need for the zealots to have a go at the man.
Blaming him for not coming up with the idea sooner is a bit pathetic.

Given the way of the world many of us on the left will need to mobilise for future events.
So file Carls suggestion in your memory banks so that the next time you need to take to the road check out the unionised option..
Honestly some of you prattling on is a bit juvenile See you all on Thursday evening.

by Mon Jun 27, 2005 20:24

Dissent! have and did! Ffs! Read the other comments!

Dissent! are using unionised transport!

by Chekov Mon Jun 27, 2005 22:32

His article was perhaps the most pathetic attempt at a poorly concealed sectarian slander that indymedia has ever seen (our trolls are amateurs compared to some). The article is based on a lie, there is simply no truth in it as has been pointed out. Even if it was true it would have been simply a nasty bit of hurling from the ditch, but when it is pure bullshit, it beggars belief that anybody could be such an idiot as to defend it. (are you carl's shadow? )

by sean Tue Jun 28, 2005 01:59

This is a sectarian post by an ICTU bureaucrat. When I say sectarian I mean sectarian in the real sense not the way it is often used on this site and by some on the left.

ICTU has doen little or nothng to mobilise for the G8 protests. ICTU have also doen little or nothing to unionise workers in these bus companies or anywhere for that matter. Unionised workers have declined as a percentage of the workforce not because of the SP, SWP, DGN/WSM, ISN... but because of the complete unwillingness and at this stage inability of union leaders and officials to actually go into workplaces and organise workers.

What this ICTU bureacrat should do is instead of bitching on this site, he should get some of the the multi millions that lie idle in unions bank accounts and use it to go on a massive recruitment campaign. Get into the offices, shop floors, call centres and factories, hold meetings, take on the bosses and the multi nationals, and sign people up!

by R. Isible Tue Jun 28, 2005 02:31

As apparently Dissent! _are_ using unionised buses!

by shadow Tue Jun 28, 2005 18:14

Chekov
if all the buses are unionised then Carl has got it wrong. Plain and simple
The point I was making is that in future we should look at unionised options for transport. where possible for future events
I would have thought that Indymedia was a forum for debate and discussion rather that vitroil. Try to be more constructive

by R. Isible Tue Jun 28, 2005 18:34

shadow writes: "I would have thought that Indymedia was a forum for debate and discussion rather that vitroil"

Indymedia is a place where you are supposed to report NEWS. It is NOT a discussion forum or bulletin board. When someone like Carl H publishes a confident claim like the one above on the NEWSWIRE then it is legitimate to post comments correcting or updating the information that he claims.

When his post is, apparently, a complete fabrication then it's a waste of everyone's time.

The purpose of the comments section is NOT to have a discussion, it's to supply information.

In this case the only information which is worth supplying is that Carl H has published a lie, that the Dissent people are using unionised buses and that the ICTU has done nothing to facilitate activists.

Clear disagreement is not vitriol.

by the shadow Wed Jun 29, 2005 17:28

"Clear disagreement is not vitroil" according to your Mr Risible. I agree.
I would have thought that comments by your comrade in cyberspace Mr Chekov like" it beggars belief that anybody could be such an idiot as to defend it. (are you carl's shadow? )" qualifies as pure vitroil.
Debate and disagreements are both necessary and helpful and hopefully move the debate on. Cheap and petty petulance does not do so.
Have mercy on those amongst us who are not on the high intellectual and politically pure plateau that you enlightened ones inhabit.
i dont know the Carl person who began this string.
Outing him as an ICTU employee must have been such a buzz for some of you folk who live on the web.
His original point that unionised transport should be used was a good one. He would seem to have been wide of the mark regarding some of the transport arrangements for G8.The fact that many of the groups using such transport are using unionised labour is to be welcomed. I

by Joe Wed Jun 29, 2005 17:36

Hey Shadow I did not 'out' Carl as an ICTU employee. He included the ICTU tag as his organisation details and I just pointed out something that would be obvious to many union members but might be missed by others reading the article.

It is rather poor that he hasn't returned to withdraw some of his false allegations - this just further damages those actually working to encourage a more active involvement with the unions amongst 'anti-capitalists'. Your own attempts to gloss over the false nature of the allegations hardly helps either.

Come down off the high horse, you might be more convincing as part of the crowd rather than preaching from above our heads.