Fascist Freedom Institute and "rivers of immigrants"

by jeff Wed Mar 02, 2005 15:56

Because normally free marketeers, as these purport to be, love immigration. Cheaper labour, etc.

Oh well, what does one expect from a bunch of gimps that need to paste up what degrees they have after their names. People can say what they like about Mr. Chekov Feeny and Indymedia ( I poersonally hate it when he censors me), but Chekov and co. do notr have an inherent need to say

' This is who we are, and guess what, we have MSc in Info Tech froim Trinity', etc...

These losers are just copycat versions of those Republican and corporate funded think tanks that publish 'serious' academic papers on why single mothers should be shot, why Iraq needs to be colonised and why freedom means being governed by corporations. Yes, very sensible indeed, now dress up in chords, shirt, stick on a pair of glasses and try to look serious. Hmmm...

by jeff Wed Mar 02, 2005 15:57

they use blogger.com to host their sad little s(h)ite. Ha, ha. Very dangerous indeed...

by another Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:02

"We have previously argued for an unrestricted immigration policy. The wisdom of this policy position becomes clear when you look at our country's economic needs. Indeed, this policy took many of our critics by surprise, as they prefer to throw lazy labels at freemarket supporters (racist/bigoted/intolerant etc.) instead of taking the time out to ask us where we stand. We stand for the individual, and with our fundamental belief in liberty, we believe that Ireland can only be strengthened by embracing those who wish to come here to contribute to the fabric of life.

So let us open the floodgates, and advertise Ireland as a place to come to work, raise your families, and contribute towards building strong communities. It's in our national interest"

Same article also says the above...so your point is????

When trying to argue with these types a degree of intellectual honesty is required...

by Major Woody Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:03

Also this 'article' doesn't read like any AFA statement I've seen before so I suspect the author is some FI loser on a crap 'look at me, look at me' drive.

Pretty sad

by normal person Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:05

you crowd didn't even read the article did you! they're pushing unrestricted immigation and you run out and label them fascists.

what complete and utter morons you really are

by ren Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:09

I generally think that the content of the freedom institutes website is a load of claptrap, amateur badly written witterings of people who should be writing for the sun.
But
'So let us open the floodgates, and advertise Ireland as a place to come to work, raise your families, and contribute towards building strong communities. It's in our national interest'
this is what their little article says, so i think the original poster has attributed a sinister motive to this less than evil blurb.They claim to support unrestricted access to ireland, but i'm sure its their own version. However making them out to be ranting in a more sinister way than they are would seem to paint a stance against them as a bit hysterical and reactionary, thus undermining it. So i am confused by the intentions of the original poster. That said a quick read of other parts of the site quickly reinforces all my prejudices against them, waahay. a think tank, pshaw

by nui st Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:12

the thing looks like it only went up an hour ago and already some muppet here has an article calling them fascist and getting the whole thing wrong

by nui st Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:13

this was a little lame in fairness

"Also this 'article' doesn't read like any AFA statement I've seen before so I suspect the author is some FI loser on a crap 'look at me, look at me' drive.

Pretty sad

"

by Getthefacts Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:29

Get the facts from more reliable sources.The following article is from todays Examiner. (Copied and pasted as subscription is required at the site:

---02/03/05 - Asylum one-stop shop to be established in immigration
overhaul - By Louise Hogan - Irish Examiner

A ONE-STOP SHOP agency is to be set up to deal with asylum applications
and work permits as part of an overhaul of the State's immigration
services.
Justice Minister Michael McDowell said the structure would offer a
convenient "one-stop-shop" service to deal with immigrants' legal
requirements in one place.
Mr McDowell said: "In addition to providing a single access point and
thus improving the service to our customers, it will enable the State's
mechanisms to respond in a more efficient and timely manner to market
demands."
The Government yesterday approved the establishment of the Irish
Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) as an office within the
Department of Justice.
The agency will provide a single source for applications for entry to
the State, combining asylum, work permit and visa application processes
from across three Government departments.
The proposed service will incorporate the Justice Department's
structures for asylum, immigration and citizenship, as well as the visa
section from the Foreign Affairs Department.
The Justice Department said the structure would bring significant
benefits for customer service and would strengthen the effectiveness and
integration of the immigration system.
Government officials said the sharing of information through linked
systems could simplify decisions on applications - leading to faster
processing. The service will develop a system for the issuing of work
papers through a link between the permit system in the Department of
Enterprise, Trade and Employment and INIS.
Mr McDowell said the arrangements would be reviewed within two years.
The service is also to include a new Immigrant Integration Unit to
promote measures across the Government departments for the acceptance of
lawful immigrants into Irish economic and cultural life.
Peter O'Mahony of the Irish Refugee Council (IRC) said asylum seekers
now made up only a small percentage of those seeking access to the State
- with only 4,770 applications made last year.
He said: "We have been aware it is happening as part of a trend to
centralise power in relation to immigrants. On the one hand it makes
sense to have a single department dealing with immigration matters."
However, he added: "It means any pretence of integration is now dead."
Mr O'Mahony said the placement of the service under the Justice
Department showed the structure was about the control and security
elements of immigration policy.
"It is impossible to see it will have any substantial positive role on
integration under the umbrella of the Justice Department."
The IRC claimed integration of asylum seekers into Irish life had not
been high on the agenda of the Justice Department over the past number
of years.
End.

Also worth checking out is the newest issue of the Migration Information Source, which focuses on Human Rights and Migration. You can find this month's issue at:

http://www.migrationinformation.org

by Major Woody Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:29

Are only confusing if you assume the poster is someone other than the person who put the article up in the first place. I hadn't checked the date/time of publication but if it was really online only an hour this pretty much confirms that the author of the article is also the author of this article on indymedia.

That the same author then posts a comment on this thread pointing out his own errors in his article attacking his article just makes it better and better.

What a plonker! If you want attention try streaking on the 17th down O'Connell st.

by qet Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:35

This is all a little odd. Either someone is a moron or someon is paranoid. Or Major Woody posted the article. Or we should all ignore the thread since theyres nothing here anyway

by Major Woody Wed Mar 02, 2005 16:53

The 'AFA' article was posted to indymedia at 2:42pm on Mar 2 2005.

The article was posted to the FI site 2.20pm on March 02, 2005.

Thats 22 minutes.

So perhaps AFA constantly monitor the site which would involve hitting reload every 10 minutes or so. In which case in the 22 minutes between the article going up and the 'AFA' article appearing on indymedia AFA had a quick meeting, drafted a reply and sent someone off to post it to indymedia.

Or the FI blogger aware that no one actually reads his site came up with a 'smart' way of publicising it. Given that indymedia is the only thing that is showing up in his 'referring web page tracker' I know which I reckon is more likely.

by Chekov Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:00

The author of the article wants some attention and so he posted what he thinks is a typical simplistic left-wing anti-FI position (basically jumping up and down and shouting fascist). He probably believed that all the simple-minded lefties would join in with the shouting. Then, in a move that would make Machiavelli's prince proud, he would reveal that the article was actually arguing for more immigration and all the sad lefties would be left with egg on their faces.

It's not the first time that they have tried this type of silly attention seeking trick (an article calling for the banning of totalitarians from trinity springs to mind). However, they are going to have to get a hell of a lot smarter if they ever want one of them to work and given the fact that their institute is heavily armoured against reality by their wild delusions about their own intelligence, this is unlikely.

This article has the following obvious flaws.

1. It was posted an hour after the article was put onto the FI site. Previous articles by the FI have been announced on this site soon after their appearance, to a rather underwhelming response. It looks rather strongly like this is a attempt to generate more interest in their output.

2. The notion that anybody on the left, never mind in AFA, considers the FI to be such a threat that they warrant their own 'watch' checking their site on an hourly basis is very far from plausible. I know a fair few people on the left and I have never heard anybody refer to the FI with anything other than mocking derision. Nobody takes them seriously at all.

3. The notion that AFA would call somebody fascist on the basis of an article that they had not read is not plausible. Considering the rather serious nature of the work that they do, they do tend to be quite thorough in terms of research.

4. There is a big difference between the reality and the cardboard cut out of 'lefties' that the FI imagine. Lads, you need to know your enemy and Brendan O'Connor and Eoghan Harris are not very reliable repositories of information.

Finally, a question for the FI. How many articles have you written in defence of the freedom to form trade unions and against the restrictions on free association and voluntary action embodied in the 1989 industrial relations act?

by aidan Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:13

by that.

But I don't see why they'd bother. It's not as if they need the traffic. Their referer shows 104 links from google in the last 24 hours and some other sites linking to them

by Chekov Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:39

"But I don't see why they'd bother. It's not as if they need the traffic. Their referer shows 104 links from google in the last 24 hours and some other sites linking to them"

If you are in the business of disseminating an idea, you always want more attention. Plus, they have posted announcements on indymedia about their articles many times in the past, so we know that "they'd bother" to use indymedia to try to gain attention. Also, I don't know where you got the information about referrer links, but still that is a tiny amount of traffic. Most indymedia articles get thousands of views within a day or so. This 'article' has already got 15 comments within a few hours and view-to-comment ratios are normally very high.

The question of why they'd bother to do try to attract attention in such a silly way is another matter. As I said above, I attribute this to their wildly inaccurate estimation of their own cleverness relative to everybody else, in particular relative to lefties.

by aidan Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:46

I suppose it's possible. Seems a little unlikely though. You might be too quick off the mark.

by aidan Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:46

Hardly subtle if it was some sort of a 'trick'.

by Chekov Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:53

I refer you to the last sentence in my reply above. Having attended a fee-paying school, I am very familiar with this phenomenon.

by Aidan Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:59

What?

You've lost me now.

by Jo Tobin - AFA Ireland (the real one) Wed Mar 02, 2005 19:04

AFA didn't issue any statement or put up this post on Indymedia.

Seems like the little FI boys are trying to curry publicity for themselves by creating an 'opposition'. Pathetic really, back to the acne ridden ranks C&E and Politics.ie (sic) kiddies.

by Richard Waghorne - Freedom Institute Wed Mar 02, 2005 22:07 rwaghorne at freedominst dot org 0876123021

Contrary to the speculation, the Freedom Institute did not start this bizarre thread, which was brought to my attention this evening. No doubt this correction will get subsumed into the paranoid double-guessing so popular on here, but there's not a lot I can do about that.

The Freedom Institute publishes almost exclusively on our website, at http://www.freedominst.org and all releases, be they reports, policy notes, commentary, or press releases, are signed, with my contact details as the default for consistency. This has been policy since inception.

The original post linked to the policy note for the day on the FI weblog, at http://www.freedominst.org/blog.html. This is doubly odd, as we publish between thirty and fourty such policy notes per month, and have released several hundred since the feature was launched. As a rule of thumb these are never publicized beyond the page on the site on which they appear, with the exception of announcements, such as the recent blog award announcement. Reports are often publicized, but by press release, and certainly not through some double-speak on a leftist website. Incidentally, the policy in today's note was not launched today but half a year ago, again contrary to the impression of the thread.

There are a number of general inaccuracies about the FI on the thread, some pertaining to traffic etc. For the interested, the relevant details about the organization are publically available at the hopepage, and in the annual report, at http://www.freedominst.org/ar.pdf

I hope this helps. We tend to give this site a wide bearth as most of the readers here would do to ours. For future reference, I'm contactable at the number and address above.

I would suggest to the moderators that they delete this thread, as it has nothing of value to commend its retention and no content beyond speculation as to its origins.

by Major Woody Wed Mar 02, 2005 23:14

But if the 'policy note' is indeed 6 months old how on earth did you manage to base it around a document that was only released this morning. Your a smart crowd over there - to be sure.

by Badman Wed Mar 02, 2005 23:38

"this bizzare thread, which was brought to my attention this evening" ....SNIP.... "We tend to give this site a wide bearth as most of the readers here would do to ours"

A response to the thread from the Freedom Institute's grandly titled "Spokesman on Economics & Infrastructure" within a few hours on a site that they give a 'wide bearth' to. Added in with their ability to predict government policy - word for word - six months in advance, you must conclude that they are very smart cookies indeed.

by Richard Waghorne - Freedom Institute Wed Mar 02, 2005 23:51 rwaghorne at freedominst dot org 0876123021

That's incorrect.

The policy note is a response to figures released this week. After a comment on these figures the post then argues that the news is further reason to support our proposal from last year regarding immigration, which it is. The original statement of our position on immigration has been online for half a year.

I have no idea how this could be construed as in any way contradictory. There is no material in any post that predates its availability. This is apparent to anyone who has read the material.

The thread was drawn to my attention this evening by an FI member. I'm not interested in getting into an argument, merely to correct the nonsense above. My above post contains all that I believe needs to be about this thread.

The relevant links are http://www.freedominst.org/blog.html (today)
http://www.freedominst.org/immigration.php (last year)

by eeekkkkk Thu Mar 03, 2005 00:00

. . . to allow immigrants to join or form a union Richard?

Hypothetical.

Should that company be punished?

If yes - How?

by Chekov Thu Mar 03, 2005 02:11

Richard, the point that you introduced about the reference to a six month old article isn't relevant to anything that anybody else has mentioned. The only reason that the timing of the blog post on your site was mentioned is because within 22 minutes somebody had posted this peculiar article about it here. This was either somebody who knew that the article had been published (ie the author or somebody in the FI) or else it was a random visitor with some sort of common grudge against AFA, indymedia and the Freedom Institute and who saw the perfect opportunity to discredit all three in one foul swoop. The balance of probability leans heavily towards the former in my universe. But still, moving on from this peculiar episode, I'm all ears for your response to my query about your defence of free association in the unions.

by Bernardo O'Higgins Thu Mar 03, 2005 03:13

... For Nuthin' Left to Do...

They're idiots. The site's registered thus - why not drop them a letter....


Registrant Name:David Cochrane
Registrant Organization:Freedom Institute c/o OEPN
Registrant Street1:19 Crodaun Forest Pk
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Celbridge
Registrant State/Province:County Kildare
Registrant Postal Code:IE

by Richard Waghorne - Freedom Institute Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:16 rwaghorne at freedominst dot org 0876123021

"Richard, the point that you introduced about the reference to a six month old article isn't relevant to anything that anybody else has mentioned. The only reason that the timing of the blog post on your site was mentioned is because within 22 minutes somebody had posted this peculiar article about it here. "

That's incorrect. Two posters above wrote incorrectly that the FI policy on immigration from six months back drew on this weeks figures. One example was:

"[it] predict[ed] government policy - word for word - six months in advance"

..

"This was either somebody who knew that the article had been published (ie the author or somebody in the FI) or else it was a random visitor with some sort of common grudge against AFA, indymedia and the Freedom Institute and who saw the perfect opportunity to discredit all three in one foul swoop. The balance of probability leans heavily towards the former in my universe."

You're perfectly entitled to your conspiracy theory and I wouldn't dare upset your universe. FI policy, as outlined above, has always been to publish according to our procedures, with the contact details appended. We release thirty to fourty policy notes on the weblog each month, none of which are publicized as they are not core research, with specific exceptions outlined above.

Again, I hope this helps. Any further difficulties can be directed to the contact details above if anyone is bothered. If the moderators wish to delete the thread, that would make sense to me. I see little of worth in it.

by Major Woody Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:02

On further consideration I realised my 22 minute launch time for this particular weapon of mass deception needs to be revised downwards to take account of the time taken to go to indymedia and publish the article. Let us say that took 5 minutes.

This means Dick expects us to swallow that within 17 minutes of FI putting a new bit onto an obscure corner of their (obscure) site someone else found it, read it and posted to indymedia.

Any you familar with 'Occam's Razor' Dick because I think you need a shave.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

by Chekov Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:17

Dick, you've failed to understand the meaning of the text that you have quoted. The above posters were mocking your excuses. Read them slowly next time.

As for the 'conspiracy' theory - it is you not I that is pinning their hopes on little green aliens. Myself and Occam have simply identified the most plausible explanation for how this funny thread got here. Whatever alternative theory you are claiming has to be much more conspiratorial than mine which is simply the simplest explanation - or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Perhaps you are claiming that this thread does not exist and it's all in my mind?

by Sherlock Holmes Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:38

Where does your funding come from?

by Watson Thu Mar 03, 2005 15:30

They got just over €700 in donations and €200 in affiliations.

Was that difficult?

by Badman Thu Mar 03, 2005 16:01

A quick perusal of the Freedom Institute's annual report for last year goes a long way towards confirming the suspicion that it can best be described as "my first think tank" for a rather sad clique of undergraduates.

Their accounting is simply hilarious. Their accounts, consisting of a few hundred euro, are detailed in 7 full pages of their annual report. Particularly amusing is the 'currency' exposure pie chart which shows that 13% of their 'currency' is held in US dollars, with the rest in euros. Somebody obviously brought back a $10 note from their holidays! The funny thing is that, amid all of their detailed breakdowns of liquid assets, depreceation and so on, there is no real information about what they actually spent their money on or what assets they hold.

If they had cashflow of maybe a few hundred thousand, you can see how this level of detail might be justified. When they are talking about pocket money, it's just embarrassing.

by Sherlock Holmes Thu Mar 03, 2005 16:58

However rumours have been circulating that State funding was due to FI and that was the info i was looking for.

by milton friedmann Thu Mar 03, 2005 17:10

I am comforted to know that AFA have at least monitored this group and decided that they are not a threat to the Irish working class so they will not be set upon by the Bohs casuals and have their leaflets thrown into someone's garden in an heroic reenaction of the Battle of Jarama.

Or maybe FI had a few "tasty" members (you know what the Irish bourgeoisie is like for playing rugby) and AFA have made a tactical decision that they are a bit more awesome than the old geezer who ran on an anti immigration ticket in the locals!!

by Sherlock Holmes Thu Mar 03, 2005 19:13

Or maybe AFA didn't post this thread and you haven't been bothering to follow previous comments. AFA are easy to contact, if you have a problem with them go sort it out with them. However it is clear to me that you are one of those cowardly people who AFA monitor, and its a good job they do monitor facist and racist scum, people who violently attack ethnic minorities and attempt to organise to peddle their vicious false propaganda.

by regrt Thu Mar 03, 2005 21:43

quote by normal person 3:05pm

"you crowd didn't even read the article did you! they're pushing unrestricted immigation and you run out and label them fascists.

what complete and utter morons you really are"

Hear,hear It's hard to believe that they can't see that it's business interests who primarily want mass immigration.
'Anti-racists' understand nothing!

by R. Isible Thu Mar 03, 2005 22:07

You apparently couldn't read the first comment on the thread (immediately above the one that you quote) where "jeff" makes _exactly_ that point! And to boot you label other people as "morons"!

QUOTE: "which is strange
by jeff Wednesday, Mar 2 2005, 2:56pm

Because normally free marketeers, as these purport to be, love immigration. Cheaper labour, etc."

The funniest part though is seeing what Chekov has pointed out above: the attempt to construct a Cardboard Lefty. The limits of the imagination of the artist is revealed in his impoverished output. Don't forget to add horns and a tail (if your fingers are able to manipulate scissors that is).

by milton friedmann Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:30

If AFA are monitoring me, they must have little to be doing with themselves!

I despise fascists just as must as I despise left wing totalitarians.

Fortunately there is no organised fascism in this country and if there were I doubt that AFA would be the people that would "sort them out".

by Sherlock Holmes Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:50

Milton, there are an increasing number of fascists in Ireland. AFA have been monitoring them to ensure that they don't organise, and they have been successfull at it.

by Watson Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:05

The AFA are all that stand between us, and a return of the Third Reich. Look at the way in which they defeated the reknowned fascist, anti-semite Justin Barrett. Coming off a huge victory for the fascists in the European Elections, those brave AFA members, with worrying for their own physical safety, attacked Barrett and his newly formed para-military group. If they had not done so, Ireland would probably be a fascist state by now.

When you think of the threat Barrett posed, the moral and physical support he had garnerd throughout the country, then you can only commend the AFA for their brave and far sighted action.

Three cheers, for the self appointed defenderes of Irish democracy.

by milton friedmann Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:16

If they are not organised, then they are not fascists. Some fool posting on Stormfront or slobbering about Jews or "niggers" is just that, a solitary fool. No more threat than any other isolated lunatic.

What do all these fascists do anyway? Seems to me like there is some fixation with what some taxidriver might have said, or on eijits like Barrett who are not only not fascists, but who as your good friend Watson points out, have absolutely no support.

by Sherlock Holmes Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:51

There are fascists organising in the country. Some use the Immigration Control Platform to organise, others organise meetings with few numbers attending. People should note that it does not take many people to organise. They have had attempted leaflet distributions, organised spray painting of racist graffiti, stick up racist stickers. They also threaten to kill anti racist activists, send abusive letters and are said to be behind the vandalism at the jewish museum. While these things are currently small and insignificant, if they go unchecked their numbers will grow as will the scale of their activities. Now you in all likely hood are male, middle class, and white and as such they pose little threat to you. However with the increase in racism including an increase in violent attacks against ethnic minorities, the "attraction" of fascism should not be ignored. Its not just Justin Barrett who is the problem (as insignificant as he is) it is also the danger that by his actions he is preparing fertile ground for a more intelligent breed of fascist in this country. This must be prevented.

by milton friedmann Fri Mar 04, 2005 13:45

Stop trying to pigeon hole me. Earlier you assumed that I was a fascist, now you are certain that I am "white, male and middle class" !

Regarding the first, I most certainly am not. I hate fascism and know people who were victims of real fascists. I also despise its mirror image, totalitarian socialism (and also know people who were forced to live under that monstrosity prior to 1989/90)

I am white (ish!) and male but not middle class. Don't see how that would make me immune from fascism given that the majority of its victims in the last century were white and male.

Nor do I accept that the ICP are fascists. Arguing against the current immigration system does not make one a fascist. By the same logic you could claim that the 80% who voted in favour of the Citizenship referendum (I voted NO btw) are fascists.

by Sherlock Holmes Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:27

The ICP is not a fascist group. It is a racist group which fascists use to organise. I did not call the ICP fascist nor have i heard any anti racist activist calling it a fascist group. Nor have i called the people who voted for the citizenship referendum fascist. To repeat my point. Since you are white you are not the target of fascists in this country. You will not be the victim of one of their attacks, nor a victim of an attack "inspired" by them. You are irrelevant for them apart from being a possible recruit. And as for me calling you a fascist, you seem to know a little to much about the people that they have monitored. However, i repeat again, if you have such a problem with AFA go sort it out with them.

by milton friedmann Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:22

I know a little too much about the people who AFA monitor!!

What the fcuk is that supposed to mean? Are you implying that I am a fascist? despite my having already told you that I despise them every bit as much as I despise left wing totalitarians.

As for AFA, I ignore them as I do all other tiny crank organisations including those on the extreme right. They all exist in a sad symbiotic relationship that has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of life in Ireland.

by Sherlock Holmes Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:54

Where did you get your info about AFA from. I've never received a newsletter from them. I have never seen minutes form one of their meetings. You are getting your info from somewhere and i firmly believe it is from those whom AFA monitor. Do you honestly expect people to believe that you are not extreme right, nobody who is not extreme right would use a name like dear old Milton's.

by Harry Tue Mar 08, 2005 14:39

You must have plenty of time on your hands to continue your weird fixation with afa. I would have thought that you would be busy trying to find new hoods to work with now that Spratt has topped himself. Or attacking the McCartney sisters for telling the truth.

by Devil Dog Tue Mar 08, 2005 16:41

You are taking the piss, right? "Extreme right" conjures up images of Nazis/fascists/totalitarian state control - are you really saying that MF supported such ideas or that fascist organisations would support his economic ideas?

Are you saying that Von Hayek, Popper, Kristol, the Chicago School etc would all be "extreme right"?

As for your commendable concern with fascists subverting Irish democracy - good man, the biggest such threat is that posed by SF/IRA.

by Sherlock Holmes Tue Mar 08, 2005 16:57

Do you even know what a fascist is? the issues with the IRA are separate to the issues dealing with fascists. Since you don't seem to know what a fascist is i would recommend you research it on the net.

by Sherlock Holmes Tue Mar 08, 2005 16:59

There are plenty of extreme right politicians and individuals who aren't fascists Devil Dog. Perhaps you view Bush, Cheney, and our own beloved McDowell as belonging to the centre.

by Devil Dog Tue Mar 08, 2005 17:02

Private, paramilitary wing used to threaten, intimidate and harm/murder opponents? Check.

Exaggerated sense of nationalism? Check

Opposed to democracy and willing to use violence to seize power? Check

Looks like they're making a good start if you ask me....certainly far ahead of that gobshite Barrett, racist taxi drivers and some losers posting holocaust denials on Nazi websites.

by Sherlock Holmes Tue Mar 08, 2005 18:22

What about the destruction of the workers movement Devil Dog? What have the IRA done to shut down workers movements. What statements have they made threating such Devil Dog. Opposed to democracy? Willing to use violence to sieze power? Back up your claims with evidence rather than the usual right wing propaganda.

by CCCP Tue Mar 08, 2005 18:23

"Private, paramilitary wing used to threaten, intimidate and harm/murder opponents? "

-Indeed, you mean Special Branch/ MI5/ RUC/ UVF and other assorted pro-Brit mercenary shit?

"Exaggerated sense of nationalism? "

True for FG and PDs if you mean "british" nationalism, (for FF substitute money).

"Opposed to democracy and willing to use violence to seize power? "

"Opposed to democracy" alright -witness the Govts jailing of people over bin-tax, threats to abolish Dublin Council, and continuing stripping of human rights under that sad excuse for a human being mcDowell and
very willing to use violence to MAINTAIN power.

You're banging yer head against a wall with your rabid anti-republicanism, but carry on, hopefully you'll knock yourself out.

by Devil Dog Tue Mar 08, 2005 19:12

"Commitment to the Republican Movement is the firm belief that its struggle both military and political is morally justified, that war is morally justified and that the Army is the direct representative of the 1918 Dail Eireann Parliament, and that as such they are the legal and lawful government of the Irish Republic, which has the moral right to pass laws for, and to claim jurisdiction over the territory, air space, mineral resources, means of production, distribution and exchange and all of its people regardless of creed or loyalty."

Not my words, words of the IRA.

""Who here really believes we can win a war through the ballot box? But will anyone object if, with a ballot paper in one hand and an Armalite in the other, we take power in Ireland?"

Not my words, those of a former IRA director of publicity.

Sherlock, as far as I know, the IRA didn't shut down many workers' movements but they did "shut down" quite a few businesses by blowing them up as well as "shutting down" a large number of actual workers, by murdering them.

Do you think it is acceptable for a democratic political party to be part of an overall movement, complete with its own heavily armed wing?

CCCP, great user name -on a par with "Nazi Gemany"...I think you might need your head examined, given your blinkered inability to countenance any wrong doing by Republicans.

by R. Isible Tue Mar 08, 2005 19:28

The IRA has had some history of oppressing labor movements according to some accounts in order to help out friendly Catholic gentry face down the Red Flag Terrorist Agitators:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2724/ws51_munster.html

but this talk:
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/talks/limerick.html
seems to say that the IRA were instrumental in starting the Limerick Soviet.

I suspect that the mixed origins of the IRA have a lot to do with it.

[ Editorial note: posts in which direct attacks are made upon other contributors will be deleted. Please don't comment on the intelligence, size, parentage, or other personal attributes of the people you're responding to.]

by CCCP Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:29

Great comeback "Devil Dog" - where'd you get your Weltanschauung , from the back of a beermat in some Woodvale shebeen?

"CCCP, great user name -on a par with "Nazi Gemany"
... This from someone using the nickname of the souless autonomen famed for (indeed proud of) their absolute subservience and unleashed whereever there are "commies" or oil for the taking.

by Sherlock Holmes Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:42

Risible, the discussion was on the provisional movement rather than on the IRA during the 20's. Back then the IRA was certainly confused as to it's ideology. Devil Dog the IRA will not go away because you wish them to. The IRA will only dissappear under the context of a comprehensive agreement. Let me make it very clear, yet again, I want the IRA to disband. But the IRA will not bow to pressure to disband from you, McDowell, Paisley are any other of a similar ilk. Now Devil Dog answer me this.
What have you done to help resolve the conflict up North, or are you merely a right wing computer warrior?
Are you merely an apologist for State terror, or do you oppose it? if so where are your previous indications to this?
What about British collusion? i have never seen you post opposing collusion.
What about McDowell and the rest of the Irish governments appaling human rights record, regarding ethnic minorities in this country?

by Eamon Dunphy's Hairdresser Fri Sep 16, 2005 06:23

A recent posting on the Freedom Fries site (or is that Freidom Fries) site reveals that they're not only contributers to one of Ireland's most right-wing publications, Magill, but are also the darlings of Tony O'Reilly's Independent Newspapers shower:

"Check out the magazine in today's issue of the Irish Independent for coverage of some of the Freedom Institute bloggers."

"Also the current issue of Magill magazine features articles from four regular Freedom Institute contributors."

Both publications must be really stuck for news...

by Mark Coughlan Fri Sep 16, 2005 18:09 Waterford

I've just come across this topic now and, I have to say, there is no group of people in this country that are less racist than the Freedom Institute and to suggest that the FI espouses racist views is either incredibly stupid or it is done deliberately to misguide people. I suggest the latter is the case.

Unlike many of you on the left, individualists are colour-blind in that we do not believe ones colour determines their identity. We do not believe in patronising immigrants in this country by treating them differently because of their nationality or the colour of their skin. This topic really is rather pathetic and I would encourage you, if you people really must spout absolute rubbish, at least make it somewhat convincing.

by Badman Fri Sep 16, 2005 19:18

.

by Eamon Dunphy's HairDresser Sat Sep 17, 2005 20:12

The Freedom Institute is RACIST. In all honesty, I doubt very much if any of you people known a single black person, and I don't expect to see you on the next anti-deportation demo outside the motherland (PD HQ), however, by espousing the free-market Hayek/Thatcher/Bush/Ahern economic policies, you are *institutionally* racist. The weakest members of our society, immigrants, and people of colour are the victims of unfettered capitalism, easily exploited, with no rights, underpaid, to be moved around the world in cattle trucks like the Jews on their way to Auschwitz, and discarded and ignored with economic conditions no longer need them. Just like we've seen in New Orleans, where the victims were poor and black, your institutional racism similarly is keeping nigerians and other people of colour in this country poor, exploited, and at the mercy of whatever the economy or nature throws off them.

The next time you pass a nigerian cleaner in UCD perhaps you can show them a picture of yourselves in your nice suits and ask them what they think of your defence of "Freedom".

And for the record, since you're so interested in Freedom and how the USA is the shining example that we all should bow down and scrape to, you might consider the words of The Liberator, Daniel O'Connell, who called for the abolition of slavery in the US. They attempted to buy him off, but he said:

"Gentlemen, God knows I speak for the saddest people the sun sees; but may my right hand forget its cunning, and my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth, if to save Ireland, even Ireland, I forget the negro one single hour".

"Let America, in the fullness of her pride wave on high her banner of freedom and its blazing stars... In the midst of their laughter and their pride, I point them to the negro children screaming for their mother from whom bosom they have been torn... Let them hoist the flag of liberty, with the whip and rack on one side, and the star of freedom upon the other."

by Kunle Sat Oct 01, 2005 14:04

Some insights into this "Freedom Institute" and their publishing of "articles" in Magill magazine (more a reflection on the paucity of talent in Magill, than the FI's influence - they'd publish a dog licence if you sent it)

At best, the FI is a minor Swiftian student hoax. At worst, it represents the closeted anger, reaction, and frustration of recently graduated students from UCD, who fall into a fatal trap of comparing their own insides with everyone else's outsides. Rather than deal head on with the realities of life and politics, and come out and fight a good fight, or get some therapy, and seek to debate in an open way, they hide behind the machinations of "The Freedom Institute", tilting at the windmills of society, ranting like some "Lock Hard" wino on Stephen's Green, deleting comments from their blog that don't toe the editorial line or take the piss, and posturing for photos their old fogey Louis Copeland parentally-supervised purchases of very non-trendy suits says a lot.

Fact:
* There is no such organization registered with the company's office in Ireland. I checked.
* The FI exists as an internet phenomenon only that feeds on notoriety of supporting pariahs like Michael McDowell and George Bush.
* It showed a profit and lost at end of 2004 of 430 Euro (see the "accounts") at http://freedominst.org/ar.pdf. According to the DCU handbook 2005 that's a lot less than the cost of a * month* of going to college, so let's put that in perspective with regard to membership and influence.
* These articles in Magill are rehashes of BLOG postings on the FI site. The Abbey one by Richard Wankshaft is a direct lift. Both include wrong assertions.
* Herr Wankshaft is credited in one of the Magill articles as a "director" of the FI. How can one be a director of a non-incorporated body? Oddly, in the second article by same said gentleman, the byline makes no mention of his directorship at all!
* The article by Rory Miller in Magill makes no mention of the FI. His article is therefore apppropriated for the purposes of Wankshaft et al.
* You can track their webstats @ http://www.sitemeter.com/default.asp?action=stats&site=s20freedominst
. It's hardly a major web magnet!
* The self-absorption continues with a Wikipedia entry, now the subject of a Neutral Point of View dispute.
* Track criticism of the FI at this blog: the excellent http://fifiefoefum.blogspot.com/
* Tom Cooney of UCD isn't a spokesman, which says a lot about the FI's credibility even on the hallowed turf of their alma mater, Stillorgan Airport, sorry Belfield!

In all, I don't know what Indymedia readers are concerned about. If you want a good laugh, then go for it, but let's see some humour delivered at these very unfunny, boring, and sad boys.

Give it a year and it will be history anyway...