Sunday Papers preview.

by apathetic non voter Sat Feb 19, 2005 18:43 fatima portugal

I'm a bit apathetic about not voting, and having enjoyed clockwork orange revolutions for years now, think its about time we people of europe had a constitution worth its "in god we trust" preamble, even if we don't trust God more than I trust Giscard.

by really fired up activist Sat Feb 19, 2005 18:44 Ceuta North Africa

I know that europe is about more than just Barcelona, and I'm voting No! because there aren't enough provisions in this constitution to guarantee the future of my family.

by irish times non reader Sat Feb 19, 2005 18:48

is the percentage of apathetics versus tactical non voters who occasionally vote, I remember the M14 election of Zapatero was secured by that block.
I also know that the bank of scotland has a reputation for clearing british secret service accounts.
I also know Myers is an oik, Giscard isn't an illuminatus, and Geraldine is not worthy of her appointment.

I also know this constitution has now been rejected and will not pass referenda in the remaining states.

by student Sat Feb 19, 2005 18:53 Lisbon

living in Lisbon I know that the Lisbon promises of a "social europe" have been abandoned, and will becompletely forgotten if this constitution which makes no mention of the Lisbon intent to guarantee housing, health, work and hearing aids for pensioners is passed.

I'd love to read feature length articles on the diamonds and the african cannibals again.

Thank you for your concise reasons.
Neither I nor anyone else could actually be bothered to read the constitution, and it was nice to see you people do it for us.

by President Zapatero Sat Feb 19, 2005 18:57

"I'm not actually scheduled to meet Mr Bush on Sunday whilst my fellow citizens vote, and I didn't release the M11 files in agreement with the PP to the EU authorities becuase it was our business what happened, and my wife is piano teacher and knows all about Ludwig, and my people know all about Negroponte".

que somos europa.-

("can I just add, myers is an oik and geraldine isn't worthy of her job)

by ¡no! Sat Feb 19, 2005 19:00

and it's utter shite.
we deserve better.
you don't need complex explanations
just think about Beethoven.

by the lehandakri - "café con leche?" Sat Feb 19, 2005 20:32 bilbao

but can I just sort of point out that peace might....

[Y€$ = no he can't]

We've read it very carefully
& it doesn't deserve the attention it got,
or either Beethoven's music
or Schiller's poetry.

it is the product of a french masonic
mind grappling with American notions
of superstatehood. And will not guarantee
the prosperity and peaceful co-existance
of the European peoples in all their diversity
and at all their ages
from the Atlantic to the Urinal.

= Vote No / Nao
pasalo

by galician Sun Feb 20, 2005 02:46

the people of portugal and the azores can only vote if they're actually spanish. otherwise they'll have to wait till later in the year.
the Latvians, hungarians and slovenians didn't vote,
their government decided for them, coz that's what their long struggle for democracy and european values was all about.
The Irish don't know when they're going to vote coz FF are and have been hiding lots of stuff from them since before 1974.
dum de dum de dum...

by barometer Sun Feb 20, 2005 03:03

which the spanish and portuguese thrashed out over 500 years ago. most portuguese migrant workers are found in today's democractic europe in luxembourg, which has just decided to give the "utter shite could have done much better" constitution a referendum before summer.
meanwhile over here everyone's out and partying or in bed and asleep. A lot of apathetic people in bed asleep. It looks like a clear majority of apathetic people dreaming at the moment, and yes news just in from barcelona club land, people are not being apathetic but rather a definite swing to the Dform festival reported and the Babalon street gig and Jedi Mind Games gig attracting less punters than had been expected.
If those non voters can stay awake till polling well it might just make the difference. Meanwhile over 120,000 specially chosen election special specials are sleeping ahead of their duty day tomorrow guarding the special boxes.

Riveting stuff.
all of Europe is watching Spain.
all eyes on Spain.
Spain is the centre of attention
and not as previously reported Spain and Portugal.
No-one is interested in Portugal.
the portuguese suck.

by swing Sun Feb 20, 2005 13:09

34,692,278 citizens have the right to vote.
in 23,646 voting centres.
The priests have been reported to trying to shave beards off their faithful this morning after voting and sending them a second time.
In some outlying areas spanish people have camped out in sleeping bags since Friday night at their voting centres eager to have a taste at long last of democracy.
The presidente Zapatero has voted with his uncommonly good looking wife who is a piano teacher, afte enjoying a good breakfast of café con leche and beethoven.
Several hundred portuguese foreigners have been stopped at the border with false ID papers by the guardia civil and turned back.
THe landlass league are crawling the after clubs at the moment dragging the apathetic by the dredds to the voting stations.

by lehendakari Sun Feb 20, 2005 14:48

But we've just stopped a two busloads of potential fradulent voters on the french border. All of them had inky thumbs.

suck my thumb!

by Ceutan Sun Feb 20, 2005 15:30

the little community of spanish and european north africa which is the doorway to a life of opportunity, equality, hope, liberty and a decent céad mile failte for thousands of amateur boating enthusiasts every year has gone to the polls.

Whatever!

by swing Sun Feb 20, 2005 15:38

(one hour different in the Canaries.)
was 21,64% of 34,692,278 citizens who have the right to vote in 23,646 voting centres.

The communidad with the highest turn out so far is La Rioja in the Trusting God centre of the peninsula with 27,20% and lowest in it is the Will of God peripherary of Ceuta with 14.40%

This contrasts with 24.58% polling attendance at the EU vote of the 13/7/04 at 14h00 CET.

So a clear indication that apathy is up amongst muslim voters.

Over to you Gallician-

by lehandakari Sun Feb 20, 2005 15:39

-

by pc Sun Feb 20, 2005 15:43

.

no to EU.Ltd

by iosaf mac diarmada - .:. Sun Feb 20, 2005 19:38

with the resounding defeat of the EU constitution, time need not be wasted with the next one.
With a turn out of 33% in Spain at 18h00 it is now impossible to consider the European Constitution possible to ratify in any normal democratic sense in the remaining minutes of polling.

The next constitution may now need to be drafted and put to the peoples of Europe for their consideration.
It ought include a preamble which honours the European cultural tradition of Theological based Republics of Constitutional Monarchies.
"The God clause".


It needs to guarantee the following rights

to work.
to a home.
to health care.
to a pension.

It needs to recognise in the name for peaceful co-existance and development the right to call your local piece of land a nation.

It needs to state clearly the peaceful intent of the EU on the global stage and its responsibility to those nations and peoples who suffered so that we grow rich.

It would also be a good idea if it recognised the right of the Catalan people to speak their nasal version of the Carthar tongue in the parliament.

That will be, and only that will be a suitable document to bear the anthem of Beethoven and Schiller, who beyond believing in "fraternity" also believed in "equality", "liberty" and GOD.

sin é.
Those "leaders" who put their signatures to this document ought be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, and the leadership of Hungary, Slovenia and Latvia for so disregarding the rights to self determination, social progress and european participative democratic values, which we the european peoples long for.-

So that we may finally escape the darkness of the twentieth century and the mediocry and fake brotherhoods of V. Giscard d'Estaing and his generation.

by ludwig Sun Feb 20, 2005 19:42

it was democratic republic or constitutional monarchy in brotherhood with full sufrage and belief of the God of the tradition of the books and music.

sure didn't i go deaf for it.

by galician Sun Feb 20, 2005 19:53

33% have polled in Spain as a whole.
31% have polled in generally pivotal Catalonia.
turnout has been highest in areas where the catholic bishops hold influence, (and were opposed to the PSOE / PP pact) and in left wing urban centres.
The majority will have not voted.

The YES! vote can not claim a legitimate victory.

President ZP has urged people to go out and vote but Nicole Kidman is on the telly in "the others" and its time to catch up on the week's soaps.
He will naturally scold us all tomorrow for the apathy and be upset that España may not be a strong motor of Europe right "up there" with France and Germany and Dublin's banks, Don Manuel will get an extra indulgence for bussing in loads of portuguese from Fatima and giving them false papers to vote, the right wing never thought they were european anyway, the whole "café con leche" crew will carry on just as usual in fact.
España - sure it's different.
Visca Catalúnya!
Never you think you can get off a ryanair flight and learn what this fabric of nations and state regions and politics is about and don't even begin to think you can predict their approach to constitutions.

and Ludwig wants me to say
- up yours Valerie!

by lehandakari Sun Feb 20, 2005 19:57

------------------------
- sorry lehandakari but w'e're out of time.
Adios a todos porque Somos Europa! ¿sino?

------it's a wrap.
------i thought that went quite well.
------yeah yeah pleasure as always. fucking french.
------oh! we're still on air.

click.

by ren Sun Feb 20, 2005 21:30

No it needs to have no mention of god, the power flows from the will of the people, it is not sanctioned by god, any mention of god needs to be scrubbed from the constitution and definately not in the preamble. We have enough problems with our own preamble and how it allows the appropriation of the whole constitution by religiously minded folks whenever it pleases them, a constitution for the people is not helped when it disenfranchises those who dont have religious beliefs and makes them feel like outsiders when in fact they are part of 'the people' from which its power flows.

by numbercruncher Sun Feb 20, 2005 22:05

According to RTE "The people of Spain have overwhelmingly backed the new European Constitution in today's referendum."

But if we look at their figures
79% Yes votes out of a 41.5% turnout
= 32.785%
Which does not add up to "overwhelming backing".

Not by a long chalk.

by Daniel Dunne Sun Feb 20, 2005 22:38

Following your line of reasoning there numbercruncher less than 10% of the Spanish population were bothered enough to vote against the constitution. So not a lot of opposition there.
:D

by post fascistic Sun Feb 20, 2005 22:48

76,49% of 42,43% of 34,692,278 citizens voted yes according to Vice Pressie La Vega.
(she's the nasty cop of the PSOE administration)
She's said this proves the Spanish are at the heart of Europe and has had the gall to call it a majority.

This really isn't the sort of democracy that vice Pressie La Vega got beaten up for all those years ago is it?
She obviously doesn't understand Beethoven and will get appropriately punished soon enough.

Well let's see how it goes in the next state of the union will we?
which is - Luxembourg!

by progressive democracy. Sun Feb 20, 2005 22:49

will Marleye and Beethoven be performed properly.

by too lazy for anarchy Sun Feb 20, 2005 23:57

ludwig dedicated a peice of music to nappy b before he became emperor. john cage says on 'indeterminicies' that beethoven was only popular because he had a good publicity man.

by Iosaf - O as If - "Maybe" Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:42

And So Pressie ZP declared the end to the referendum. And he's right, this is the best result for abstentionists in the history of Spanish democracy.
Including the 2nd republic. Never before have so many eligible to vote "not voted". The anarchists of the 2nd republic would have been proud.

And it works out well, as the other states who are holding referendums go to the polls, both abstention and No! votes will play a big part. This EU constitution has failed and will not pass the democratic test. And most importantly Spain won't get the blame.

For his part the leader of the opposition Rajoy blamed the ZP group for the abstention and credited the PP with the Yes! vote. All 76% of 42% of it. But in an interesting twist, the ex minister of the interior, "nasty cop" Angel Acebes (Aznar regime) thanked both voters and abstentionists for their exercise of the democratic process.

Anecdotes abound, the most worthy of comment being the high number of drunken people who turned up to vote from clubs, and the vote of the King, who arrived to exercies his right under the constitutional monarchy to vote, but brought his vote pre-pared in an an envelope (so that no-one could ensure if was blank or touched by a pen) and then forgot to show his ID card thus invalidating "technically" his exercise of the franchise. But the people in charge of these things at the ballot office didn't really doubt he was the King coz they're familiar with his face and he had turned up accompanied by lots of guards.

The Portuguese also made history this weekend returning a socialist-ish government which will be led by Mr Socrates to its referendum on the EU constitution which abstentionists are hoping will further send a strong message of apathy to Brussels. It is worth noting that the Portuguese can't really afford to get on the wrong side of France and Germany either, so the actual NO! result won't occur till a richer more secure state votes.

Meanwhile, the 2nd constitution (if a constitution is needed @ all @ all) ought to get drafted. Coz we have rejected this document on the grounds of -

no God clause.
no right to a home, job, health or pension
no commitment to ending third world poverty.
no recognition of nations without states.
no catalan.

And if you do this type of thing, you'd be saving your Euro-timetable grief by adding those bits before the round of forecast referenda are finished in 2008.

by Ana Mon Feb 21, 2005 19:21 Portugal

This news is not true.
Portugal and Spain are not the same country. Portugal vote for the national Government last 20. Spain voted for the European constitution.
Por agora ainda não somos um país. Podemos não ter independência económica, mas não somos Castelhanos - os que usurparam o nome Espanha. Informem-se caros estrangeiros.

by O Raio Tue Feb 22, 2005 19:42 cabalas at gmail dot com

Last Sunday Spain vote for a referendum about a scrap of paper called constitution.
Portugal is a diferent country. Portugal last Sunday had elections for the National Assembly.
The referendum, if it occours, will be only by mid-2006.

by jayzhus still weepeth. Wed Feb 23, 2005 04:25

ana carinho mea?

by merrovinginvanjan Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:41

the night of the referendum explaining why it had been rejected, and calling for a new one to be written but the following day it was edited and removed , because "the referendum had not been rejected".

Well this is the thing,
in commercial newspeak the referendum "was passed".
ZP and chums could smile and didn't lose investment.

But in "understanding andorran elections" terms, the referendum failed, and the constitution was "not passed".

France is the next state to have a referendum on the EU constitution, and it will not be passed, both technically and morally.

This is not the end of Europe, as Luxembourg said quite clearly and rationally at the beginning of their presidency, the non ratification of V.Giscard d'Estaing's constitution doesn't really matter that much. Rather it will allow the member states to reconsider the faults within that constitution. And the lack of consideration and wise forethought afforded the ruling classes of Europe in the 1990s to most recent times given to "the ordinary little boys & girls" of our XXI century future from Rumania to Donegal from Riga to Fez.

* A right to a home. (preferably in the state/nation of your birth)
* A right to a job (preferably in the state/nation of your birth)
* A right to health care (preferably wherever you need it.)
* A right to a pension (preferably wherever you are old)
* A God clause (to keep the Bavarian neo-crew of papa ratzi and his new mates in Islam happy)
* a clever way round the questions of pluri-nationality which allow for nations without states to make suitable declarations that please their citizens and do not blow oxygen on the rising far-right nationalist prejudices of our times.

Now if the article i had published that night, had been left up, the people with non-classified qualifications in kickboxing the mirror and linguistics and málá would have time to reflect, "oh dear, it's him again, the dreaded duckula Dr O as-if telling us we've bolloxed up the european project, we'd better re-write the constitution soon".

And then they could have looked very carefully at the criticisms of the thinktank of the continent, Bcn's objections, and despite the "realpolitik" that no poorer state can afford to throw the spanner in the works, the die is cast, and one of the richer states is going to "reject this constitution".

Probably you can rationalise this by thinking the right of centre has run out of it's time at the helm.
(if that helps).

Non = No = Niet = Nao = Peace = Justice = Fraternity = Equality = Less Equity Mortgages = Less FF&PDs

by iosaf Sat May 28, 2005 15:39

If you did, you'd have a different introductory perspective on the €U Beethoven thing.
OR
You might have received a musical education without dystopic satirical input, and even growing up in the Republic of Eire, been spared the movie version of the book (written by infamous engurlish alcoholic A.B.) thanks to its place for many years on the Irish cinema censor's list.
OR
You might have attended any one of the many sumptous banquets which prepared to the copious and precise instructions of Antonin Carême the father "pêre" of french cuisine, which often see a rendition of the final movement of the 9th symphony by Ludwig.
"la IXème symphonie de Ludwig van Beethoven et hymne de l’Union européenne".
Of course when the man in the first illustration above^ wrote his ninth symphony, and set the words of Freidrich von Schiller, "Ode à la Joie", hymn to joy, neither men Herr von Schiller or Herr van Beethovan expected the €U to exist and to the yumyums of Carême, and the good company of an Irishman Bertie, listen to their joint work as "the european anthem".

No. Their "colloboration", existed against the back-drop of the Napoleonic wars, which rather like the latter wars of the man in the illustration with this comment, saw Germans and French say unkind words. But their "colloboration" was very special, for they were truly extra-ordinary men.
Perhaps, Ludwig was all the more special. As I never tire of reminding ye.

& Ludwig the special-
* Did not enjoy a right to vote during his life.
* Did not have the right to a home, and was evicted for non-payment of rent.
* Fought protracted access law suits in the best modern way of familiar breakdown.
* Went deaf from a curable disease due to his lack of adecquate health provision or entitlement.
* Lived in fear of war most of his life.
* Was not afforded any pension entitlements and suffered penury all the more for that.
* had strong opinions on the age of startling innovation in which he had been born and champoined new technology, most famously the bloody big piano.
* believed in God.
* had really shit handwriting and couldn't spell.
* didn't like speaking french, & didn't speak catalan.
* never expressed any interest in going to ireland.

€NON!

Tomorrow's "sunday papers ( NON edition )
will be published in french ( & maybe even france, but that's a wee bit silly, coz you'd be reading the online version, which gets inputed [a technical term] in Barcelona, and bounces around the planet [particularly the USA in mostly maryland, viriginia, california] being recorded [a technical term] in many big computers called [ servers ] and then goes to your computer [wherever you are] perhaps in ireland or perhaps just down the road from where i live, this might seem Am@zing! but it is in fact simply the best safeguard against war in Europe our cousins on the other $ide of the atlantic came up with).

We are Europe.
Everthing is going to be ok.

U talking to me? NON!

by Pamela Sat May 28, 2005 15:55

It is impossible to know and, therefore, foolish to suggest that Herr Himself 'never expressed an interest' to go to Ireland. But it begs a forwhy, this comment, thrown away as it is. Reading nothing into, taking nuthin out, but forwhy we wonders.

Aye, we wonders....

by iosaf Sun May 29, 2005 23:38

not for the first time, thing is I don't know if herr ludwig van beethoven did express an interest in going to ireland or not, & I've been thinking about it. Certainly the networks were well established, and there are direct connections not only between Irish and German musicians at the time but also in joint efforts to promote the new technology referred to, "the bloody big piano". Young irishmen (not many women) went all over the continent as far as Moscow to promote the "bloody big piano" and thats why Dublin boasts a John Field room. Sure, maybe ludwig, the illuminate and utter cantankerous misanthrope lover of light, did go to Dublin and play in the hall latterly known as the Gresham hotel?
i don't know. I reckon though if Beethoven had played a gig in Dublin, the FF/PDs would have issued a stamp by now, or it would have mentioned in an irishman's diary at the least, bord failte would have made mention of it surely, and probably Ludwig would be a popular irish pub name, and snippets of his music would have made an appearance at Eurovision.

You see?
If France had won the Eurovision, or at least come in higher than the bottom 4, they wouldn't be voting for le Pen in their masses from Martinique to Lille.
we're ruined.
it's the end of civilisation.



doesn't change a thing.