Independent News and Media blame IRA for McDowell attack

by Freddie Starr Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:56

The Republican Movement ate my hamster.

by LOL Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:03

or some disgruntled schoolkid who didn't get their trip.
or some disgruntled higher Garda who wanted to be commissioner and doesn't like Commissioner Rock.
or a farmer or the minister himself just looking for publicity.

by Annette Curtin Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:54

Due to limitations on Garda resources and manpower, they have decided the quickest way to investigate the attack on McDowell's holiday home is to investigate those who DON'T have a motive to attack him. A Garda spokesperson commented, "Interviewing 5 million people would be a logistical nightmare, so we're concentrating enquiries on a handful of people in the Ranelagh area answering to the name McDowell."

by Noel Wed Feb 16, 2005 13:23

There must be a big McDowell clan in Ranelagh.
He topped the poll there last election.

by pedant Wed Feb 16, 2005 13:47

The 'independent' newspaper group have little or nothing to do with independent news and media, and perhaps, should be put in quotes when mentioned - thta is, if 'independence' is to retain its meaning.

by Reality Check Wed Feb 16, 2005 13:54

It wouldn't be much of a garda investigation if the possibility of republican involvement was ruled out immediately before inquiries even began.
I think it's pretty much par for the course that illegal organisations with access to more weaponry than the State and a history of political shootings and bombings would come under the broad umbrella of the "usual suspects".
It probably was a disgruntled neighbour but automatically allowing republicans off the hook because it seems too minor league is silly.
After all, there were two robberies at the homes of Monika and Monica Leech within a week of each other last June.
And it wouldn't have taken an Einstein to figure out which was the real Monica Leech in the first place. There's a reason they call Aengus O'Snodaigh Dumbo.

by Reality Check Wed Feb 16, 2005 13:58

And as for this Pedant:

"The 'independent' newspaper group have little or nothing to do with independent news and media, and perhaps, should be put in quotes when mentioned - thta is, if 'independence' is to retain its meaning."

I think you need to have another crack at explaining your point here. Because the Irish Independent and London Independent are both major parts of Independent News and Media.

by Séamus Wed Feb 16, 2005 14:58

Thanks for the point re Tony O'Reilly's Independent News and Media - he owns two-thirds of our local and national press, so it's hard enough to find a paper that doesn't belong to him.

As regards the pointing the blame at republicans, I agree that Gardaí have a responsibility not to rule anyone out at this stage. However, it is indicative of Tom Brady's political bias that he should automatically rule republicans in, while the Gardaí were actually "reasonable satisfied" that there was no paramilitary invovement whatever. (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2005/0216/1068517627HM1MCDOWELL.html)

My point is merely that there are elements within the media who are prepared to pin blame on republicans regardless of evidence or likelihood. After all, the IRA has hardly ever been known for this kind of petty antics (and this is not to valorise their actions). We have had the Sunday Independent in recent months blaming the IRA for everything, we have had Kevin Myers, the man who has no mirror, questioning Mary Lou McDonald's efficiency because she is allegedly fat, and we have had Michael McDowell proclaiming that a perfectly reputable newspaper (Daily Ireland) is a fascist/IRA sponsored rag. This reactionary, tendentious and tedious politics is hardly the stuff of conflict resolution.

by Reality Check Wed Feb 16, 2005 15:42

Kevin Myers says that Mary Lou McDonald is fat. Mary Lou McDonald says that the murders of Det Gda Jerry McCabe and Jean McConville are not a crime.
Let's get things in perspective Seamus.
A cheap jibe by a contentious author versus a terrible insult to two bereaved families by an elected representative are not comparable.
In the grand scheme of things, the Mary Lou 'fat' comments are a non-issue.

This is yet another case of Kevin Myers doing a disservice to the people he claims to represent, playing into the Shinner's hands by use of personal insults.
His 'bastard' comments fall in the same category, and effectively mean that the very real issue of welfare dependency can not be addressed lest supporters be labelled pro-Myers.
There are countless examples of this in his ill-judged polemics on travellers, Israel, and the two World Wars.

I think Myer's greatest sin actually is not his ill-judged remarks but his remarkable lack of accuracy. In a column last week about state subsidies to Shannon Airport, he wrote: "Other such remote landfall airports - Idlewild, Prestwick, Reykjavik, Labrador - have gently receded into the mists of aeronautical history."
But in reality, Idlewild is New York's JFK airport and Prestwick is one of Ryanair's hubs. It's bizarre how this stuff is getting through the checks at that newspaper.

by barfly Wed Feb 16, 2005 16:27

It must have been my imagination then that I witnessed McDowell and at least one SF TD (Morgan) sharing a convivial pint and red wine in the Dáil bar not so long ago.

by brendan O'Carrol Wed Feb 16, 2005 17:14

There's no evidence that the provos did it, therefore it must have been them that did it . Anyone else would have left clues.

by Spinning Quickly Wed Feb 16, 2005 19:21

It's a bit early to be pointing fingers at anyone - I have my own suspicions (disgruntled local who's pissed off at McDowells winning his lawsuit), but I admit I could be wrong.

by kintama Thu Feb 17, 2005 01:33

the ruthless efficiency of the assault on a totally defenceless holiday home could only have been carried out by the type of fiends who carried out the Northern Bank robbery.
Time to cut the crap go back to majority misrule backed up by the Free State government and Stickie media. Thats the only way to put it up those uppity Fenians. If we demonstrate to Paisley et al that we hate the Shinners more than they do there is no way they will bank it and continue to treat all fenians as the enemy.
It was this type of approach eg inviting Paisley on to RTE to demonstrate hes a lovely guy that got us all to the point where we almost had a united Ireland of nice likeminded types . If only those nasty Shinners had'nt intimidated all those voters through their vicelike grip on cowed communities . Give the bastards democracy and look what they do with it, fool the people by insinuating that those nice chaps in British security colluded with loyalists to kill catholics.
I ask where is the proof how dare anyone state that because the dogs in the street know it then it must be true.

by Séamus Thu Feb 17, 2005 13:02

I agree with Reality Check (despite his/her spurious attempt to suggets there is an argment here) that the manslaughter of Gda Gerry McCabe is far more serious than calling anyone fat. However, that there are great tragedies in the world is not a reason for turning ablind eye to bad journalism at any level. Reality Check's arguments are blinkered by a curiously common anti-republican myopia that, like Kevin Myers, seems to bring any and every issue imaginable back to Sinn Féin's door.

My view is that, with respect to the wife, friends, family and relatives of McCabe, this is a semantical debate. His manslaughter was clearly wrong, but to call it crime is to suggest that it was an isolated incident, not part of a political war. Mistakes happen in war, and isn't it conspicuous how so many of the moralising media are curiously silent when it comes to the killings conducted by the British Government et al?

I don't see Michael Collins' various mistakes as crimes. I don't see De Valera's as crimes either; nor those of Pearse, Tone, Emmet, Connolly or Sands. To construe them as cimes is to fall into the trap of counter-insurgency propaganda, of depicting soldiers who fight against imerpialism as simian "gun-men", delegitimating their war in order to legitimate the war against them.

"Crime is crime is crime," was the mantra of Maggie Thatcher, but I wonder if she would apply this maxim to her coup conspirator son Mark.

by brendan o'connor Thu Feb 17, 2005 13:31

The only problem I see with presenting lack of evidence as evidence is that such reasoning might actually prevent a successful prosecution of sinn fein /ira members in the event of evidence actually existing . If ,for instance ,a leading member of sinnfein /ira was caught redhanded with a quantity of angel dust ,a smarmy , fellow travelling defence lawyer could argue that the very presence of this evidence was evidence that his client was innocent .

by P. O' Neill Thu Feb 17, 2005 18:10

Attempted robbery of bank money in Adare was not on purpose, dude, it was a mistake. Ooops, sorry about that, Mrs McCabe, we noble unelected government of Ireland, the Ra, accidently loaded them AKs, we didn't mean it, what fuddy duddys we are.

Trust us never to make mistakes again. In the future, we promise to only spend money we robbed by accident to refurbise our accidental council houses with digital telly, and buy more clothes so we look like proper chavs. We promise only to wear burburry by accident, and if we buy holiday homes in Spain with money accidently stolen, we didn't mean that either. Woops, I've just kneecapped some 14 year old delinquent by ooppsy daisy. That time I threatened that fella in a pub, that was really clumsy of me also.

Jean McConville, shit, sorry.
Enniskillen, don't know how we slipped up there.

To avoid any further mishtakes, like, please have the good sense to follow the below directions.

Your Friend,

P. O'Neill.

by Watcher Thu Feb 17, 2005 18:25

Well how about McDowells Granpa Eoin McNeill? Did he accidentally organise the 1916 Rising? Was he a criminal? Wasnt that a crime going by PD logic? After all the 1916ers rose against the "legal constituted" government of the time.

by Séamus Thu Feb 17, 2005 18:36

Let us not forget that Michael Collins conducted bank robberies, murdered innocent victims and sometimes made mistakes.

Is there any guerilla force worldwide that championed justice, equality and national liberation that didn't make mistakes. War is not ballet, it can't be choreographed.

As for the accusations of personal wealth, I've yet to see a republican who made money out of the armed struggle. Death and imprisonment were the normal return on their industries.

by the border fox Thu Feb 17, 2005 18:43

The Oireachtas sub-committee investigating loyalist??[ed] attacks in the Republic in the 1970s has condemned a lack of co-operation from the British authorities.

The condemnation is contained in a report published by the committee last night following hearings into two bombings that killed three people in Dublin in late 1972 and early 1973.

by Séamus Thu Feb 17, 2005 18:46

Puppets like "P o'Neill" above only want to hear about the IRA>

by Reality Check Thu Feb 17, 2005 18:46

Slab Murphy is extremely wealthy

by Séamus Thu Feb 17, 2005 18:55

He's just a farmer.

I doubt the people just arrested in Dublin and Cork with Northern Bank notes are wealthy either...but looks like SF have a more serious issue on their hands now than a few shards of broken glass in Roosky...

by Devil Dog Thu Feb 17, 2005 19:19

Poor old Slab is just a farmer, eh? You should get a gig at your local comedy club. Than again, the bill from that libel trial might have set him back a few quid alright...the IRA weren't and aren't "soldiers"...murdering terrorist scum is a bit closer to the mark.

by Séamus Thu Feb 17, 2005 19:28

Know you have strong feelings on this Devil Dog, but you should at least debate in a respectful and intelligent way.

by Jeremy Beagle Thu Feb 17, 2005 20:56

POLICE ACCUSED OF IGNORING SPY'S ASSASSINATION FEARS

An IRA spy who fears for his life after his identity was exposed today accused police of ignoring pleas to investigate a picture theft.

The ex-British agent, known as Kevin Fulton, believes he is being set up for assassination following the publication of his photograph in a Belfast-based newspaper.

Fulton, who worked undercover for an ultra-secret military intelligence wing at the height of Northern Ireland's dirty war, has been on the run from the Provisionals for a decade.

His appearance has always been kept secret, but last year a full facial picture was splashed under the heading 'Fulton Exposed'. Even though he made a statement to police in December, the former mole alleged they have done nothing since.

He claimed: "Human intelligence sources, or informants, set me up to be murdered.

"But the newspaper hasn't even been interviewed to ask where they got the photograph or to retrieve my stolen property.

"Are they protecting an informant."

by dog do Thu Feb 17, 2005 21:05

seamus, i saw dog admit on another thread that he took part in the highway of death slaughter in Iraq in 1991, makes him a murderer in my book. not you!!

by Séamus Thu Feb 17, 2005 21:25

Oh dear!

by kintama Thu Feb 17, 2005 23:43

careful or you will hurt the DDogs feelings. it took great courage to take on those Iraqi neer do wells with just jets given that they most likely had WMD on board the cars etc that made up the convoy. You can never take chances sure did'nt those nasty terrorists recently feign surrender and then shoot at the forces of liberation in Fallujah. They even tried the age old terrorist trick of pretending that the glorious sons of America shot civilians and unarmed and wounded prisoners.
The Dog truly has earned the right to pontificate .Hail the man of peace.
DD as a a PD for the Dail put me down for at least one vote.

by Devil Dog Fri Feb 18, 2005 00:35

Seamus: Fair enough, however, I wasn't disrespectful to you personally, unless you're an IRA member....as for intelligent debate, that's a bit rich coming from someone who claims Slab Murphy is "just a farmer"...

Dog Doo: I was 18 in 1991, getting shitfaced in college so you must have me confused with someon else....although I was proud to participate in the liberation of Iraq in 2003...

Kintama: For such a renowned Provo warrior, you seem rather squeamish; in fact rather like Paul Wolfowitz, who, on seeing the attacks on the Iraqi Army in 1991 asked"why are we attacking them when they're running away?"...such a chickenhawk...the Marine general in charge replied "because it's easier to kill them that way than when they're running towards you"....then again, your heroes in the Provos are such courageous warriors, sending such imperialists as Jonathan Ball, Tim Parry and Jean McConville to their well-deserved place in hell alongside all the other oppressors of the MOPE's.

by kintama Fri Feb 18, 2005 00:55

dont recall ever stating any grouping were my
heroes nor indeed do I ever recall even mentioning the Provos in any postings.
However I assume in terms of moral equivalence you will accept that the murders you refer to are no worse than that of children blasted to death at close range by those in British forces who I do recall you expressing admiration for.
It is also the case that none of my taxes went to supporting or sustaining any paramilitary grouping. They were however put to use in supporting collusion in the murder of innocent catholics including female shop assistants.
I accept that groups which indulge in the murder of innocent civilians should disband. However if that were to be the basis for demanding disbandment and disarmament then both the RUC and British army would have been put out of action before the end of 1970.

by devil dog Fri Feb 18, 2005 01:05

have I ever expressed support for the British (apart from 8 May 1987, what an op!!!)?

Simple question - do you accept the right of the IRA to exist or not?

by kintama Fri Feb 18, 2005 01:11

seems my assumption was incorrect. night night DD

by dog do Fri Feb 18, 2005 02:31

So you are not the same Devil Dog who claimed he was part of Desest Storm a couple of months ago here? Have we two DD's?

by pat c Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:05

"have I ever expressed support for the British (apart from 8 May 1987, what an op!!!)?"

C'mon doggie, this was an op where the (supposed) representatives of Law & Order shot down 8 IRA Volunteers without offering them an opportunity to surrender. I'm not surprised at that, nor am I shocked by your support for it.

However I am astounded that you would cheer on this operation since the selfsame trigger happy servants of the crown also shot and killed a passing civilian and seriously wounded another civilian. Anyone in the vicinity was likely to be killed.

Would not agree that this operation went somewhat awry? Or were the civilian casualties "Collateral Damage"?

by Barry Fri Feb 18, 2005 18:37

Perhaps worth remembering here that relatives of some of those killed that day publicly accused the $inn £ein leadership of having deliberately set those men up, as they wanted them out of the way for their future peace process.

Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness were pointedly told to stay away from Padraig McKearneys funeral, although he received full military honours from his fellow volunteers.

$inn £ein today admit that their process of surrender started in 1986, and that they were talking to British intelligence throughout that period, behind the backs of their own volunteers. The very same British intelligence was, coincidentally of course, able to clinically eliminate a number of people thought to be a problem for any future deal. Dan McCann for example, who was killed in Gibraltar, head earlier been part of a coup attempt to get rid of Adams. The purpose of the coup was precisely because a number of republicans suspected Adams would do exactly what he is doing today.

The man cheifly responsible for uncovering the coup plot, and saving Adams hide, was of course none other than Fred Scappittici, Gerrys personally appointed enforcer in chief and head of internal security. And an agent of British intelligence..

Britain has of course had its entire counter insurgency strategy in Ireland delivered by the peace-process and the GFA. Ulsterisation, normalisation, criminalisation of POWS, making some form of British rule acceptable to northern Nationalists, acheiving an "acceptable level of violence"

Devil Dog, in the fullness of time it may become apparent you, Gerry and Martin are basically on the same side when alls said and done.

by Reality Check Fri Feb 18, 2005 19:08

Barry - if you would only turn your hand to writing actual fiction instead of creating fantastical versions of the facts, I think you could make a lot of money.

by barry Fri Feb 18, 2005 19:13

If i wanted to make a lot of money id have stuck with the shinners.

Which of the above incidents didnt happen , pray tell. Exactly.

by Reality Check Fri Feb 18, 2005 19:19

The day you PROVE (and by that I mean provide documentary evidence) Gerry Adams colluded in the Gibraltar killings, I and my good friend Michael McDowell shall run naked down the entire length of O'Connell Street.

by eeekkkk Fri Feb 18, 2005 23:23

.
and i would point out that the accusations about adams are unsubstantiated and serious

no doubt he is unlike others more deserving in roi politics used to it

by Barry Sat Feb 19, 2005 07:46

In the mid 80s, Gerry and Martin initiated an internal security outfit, which was bitterly opposed by many republicans within the movement. The initial effect of this internal security outfit, which was personally selected by them, was to create internal rifts and dissension. Despite huge and bitter internal oppostion , Adams and McGuinness persevered, and had their hand picked "head-hunters" installed.

This unit was personally selected by, and answerable to, Adams and McGuinness. They would be responsible for the IRAs entire internal security, effectively placing it in the hands of a small number of individuals answerable not to the IRA as a whole but, to Gerry and Martin.

These individuals, selected by Adams and McGuinness, were led by Fred Scappittici, a close associate of both men. Fred was a high ranking MI5 agent called "steak-knife" A second member of this selected team was Eamon Collins, an RUC tout and supergrass. Collins, despite fingering numerous republicans, was only ever killed for testifying against slab Murphy over a decade later and costing him a million in a libel case., A third member, who was Scaps right hand man, (J McC) had earlier been knee-capped by the IRA for a serious offence. During the dirty-protest-hungerstrikes of the late 70S/80s this individual had taken a post as an orderly within Long Kesh.

When the prison authorities sent the orderlies out to hose down Bobby Sands and Francie Hughes in their cells, this tramp was one of those who did the dirty work, despite being a fellow prisoner. For this crime he was blasted in the leg with a shotgun after his release. He still walks with a limp to this day.

How in the name of Jesus, did the entire internal security of a movement get put in the hands of such people, especially against the background of bitter internal dissent. Its not like no-one said "whoah..hold on" One of those who did was Adams long time friend, comrade and associate, Ivor Bell.

Bell, along with Dan McCann, attempted an internal coup against Adams, seeing the internal security outfit for what it was. They were outmanouvered by Adams, McGuinness, and most imporatnly, Scappittici.

How it happened is simple, and not a mystery at all. Gerry and Martin put them there, against against a great many republicans wishes. That is not even disputed by their strongest supporters. It is a matter of record within the republicvan movement. Unless one is stupid enough to adhere to the "Gerry was never in the IRA" utter fucking bullshit.

As for making "unsubstantiated and serious allegations" about Gerrys MI5 links. These links have been admitted by himself personally. He and his associates within the leadership WERE talking to MI5 throughout the 80s/90s by their own admission. There is no doubt about that.

What happened to republicainism afterwards is a matter of record. Simply research what British counter insurgency strategy is, and was. (not difficult, I spelt it out above earlier.) Examine what the GFA/ peace process entails. Tell me the difference between the 2. Please someone.

by Is Mise "P.O'Neill" Sat Feb 19, 2005 18:28

Because I have a cynical attitude to claims of beautification on part of IRA supporters, this makes me a Nazi, Anti Semitic Norweigen from ww11?

Also, according to others on this thread, because I give the "bhoys" a slagging, this mean I deliberatly ignore other atrocities on the part of people who see themselves in the sanme infallible light as the Ra heads do. This includes the loyalists, the israelis, the arsehole American in gthe chopper in Gulf War 1. Apparently, according to the Ra supporters, I support such atrocities because I hate the Ra.

Get real,losers. That is all the abuse I'll give, I'll only get censored otherwise.