It's Kevin Myers who is the bastard

by Donnchadh Tue Jun 06, 2006 13:36

Yes michael McDowell also reciently hid behind sovereign immunity when Daily Ireland tried to sue him for calling them Nazis. As usual when McDowell is challenged on his lies and incompetence he runs for any cover available like the cowardly degenerate he is.

by clive sullish Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:46

"Sovereign immunity" defence planned if British government sued
(by Ed Moloney and Lin Solomon, Sunday Tribune)
The British government privately considered using the defence of "sovereign immunity", the legal doctrine which protects states from being prosecuted for criminal acts, to prevent relatives of some of the 33 people killed in the 1974 Dublin-Monaghan bombings from suing it in the Dublin courts, according to confidential Whitehall letters and memos which have been obtained by the Sunday Tribune.

Discussions about using the defence, between the British Foreign Office, the Treasury Solicitors Department - which acts as the British government's lawyer - and a firm of solicitors in Dublin which had been asked to represent the British, took place in September 1999, not long after lawyers for the Monaghan-Dublin relatives had formulated plans to sue the British for damages arising out of the bombings.

The content of the documents, which the Sunday Tribune is publishing in full, raises important questions about the British motives for contemplating this legal strategem. On the worst interpretation, the use of such a defence could be be seen as an implicit admission of guilt in the bombings, which still rank as the worst day of carnage during the Troubles, while the most favourable construction was that it was being considered so as to block efforts to force the British to hand over papers and documents relating to the bombings. Either way, say human rights advocates and lawyers for the victims' relatives, the documents smack of a government which has something to hide rather than the action of a wrongly accused party loudly proclaiming innocence.

by clive sullish Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:42

Yes indeed, who was repsonsible for the MURDER of 26 Irish citizens in 1974 ....

Oops, I forgot that was over 30 years ago ....
http://www.serve.com/pfc/dubmon/031210gu.html

Wonderful gift the ould selective memory .....

by Donnchadh Mon Jun 05, 2006 17:54

What the hell does "Republican Fellow Travelers" mean? This was a term thought up by blue shirt scum bags like Eoghan Harris to try to frighten Irish people who saw two sides to every story into submission.

by Colm Mon Jun 05, 2006 03:13

I can't believe some of the crap that passes for opinion on this site. What a collection of knee-jerk, tree-hugging, republician fellow travellers, who view the right to free speech as meaning "any opinion I have, everyone else should be forced to shut up".
Reality check idiots - the right to free speech means that people who'se opinion you don't like have a right to give their opinion as well. Once it is not telling lies about any individual or group, it is valid. Defending the right of free speech for someone who expresses an opinion you don't like takes a lot more balls than most posters on here seem to possess.
Also, what has Irish Republicanism ever done that gives it the moral high ground? I to was brought up on a diet of stories about the 'tans, but the "heros" of the IRA in it's various guises have caused a lot more death, heartache and mayham than the 'tans ever did - and for a lot longer. Why does any criticism of a 30 year campagain of murder come under the heading of "West Britishness"?

by pat c Mon Apr 24, 2006 00:25

but surely this is overkill at the indo group. they already have a ratbag full of columnists who are reactionary west brits and are also dubya fans and bay for the invasion of iran. do they really need myers? what will he bring that they havent got already?

by Séan de Barra Mon Apr 24, 2006 00:15

Good riddance. Now he can join the anti-Nationalist Independent Group where he belongs.

by redjade Sun Apr 23, 2006 03:25

23 April 2006

Controversial newspaper columnist Kevin Myers has tendered his resignation from The Irish Times and is in advanced talks to join The Irish Independent. Myers, the main author of An Irishman’s Diary, is also understood to have received an offer from the Irish Daily Mail, but is more likely to join the Independent.

Myers declined to comment when contacted this weekend, as did Irish Times editor Geraldine Kennedy.

more at
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELA...1.asp

by andrew Wed Mar 23, 2005 17:58

I think the real bastard behind all of this is Prof Edward Walsh in UL. He's the guy who back in January was saying things like a single mother with two children could get as much as 25,000 euro a year from a wide range of sources.

by pee o'neil Mon Feb 21, 2005 06:32

Does anyone have a postal address or personal e-mail contact for Myers or Synon?

by Dawn Tue Feb 15, 2005 16:42

The rent allowence is paid to the Lone Parent who then hands the payment to the landlord. The point is that the Lone Parent doesn't see a cent of it and actually has to add money from his/her OPF payment to meet the rent.

Noel has nothing to say about the fact that there has been virtually no public housing built since the 80's

by dawn Tue Feb 15, 2005 16:33

"I challenge any politician to live for a year on the One Parent Family payment with a child and on rent allowence and see how they cope. You exist on a OPF payment, living doesn't come into it."

Of course its hard. But we all have to make to do. My friend baby sits tax free and her boy friend brings in even better money.

by ali la pointe Tue Feb 15, 2005 14:36

.

by Noel Tue Feb 15, 2005 14:28

Actually, Dusk, the rent allowance is not paid to the landlord unless the tenant specifies this.
The department refuses to pay landlords directly until they receive written instructions from their client.

Now, less of the namecalling.
It's unbecoming on a thread attacking namecalling.

by Dusk Tue Feb 15, 2005 14:02

The rent allowence is paid to the landlord {personal abuse deleted - IMC Ed - not the lone parent. If renting cost €50 per week then the allowence would be €40.

I assume you would prefer LPs to be out on the street. If councils built the houses required (that many of the criticisers of lone parents grew up in) then there would be no need for a rent allowence.

I challenge any politician to live for a year on the One Parent Family payment with a child and on rent allowence and see how they cope. You exist on a OPF payment, living doesn't come into it.

by Noel Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:48

There is another reason lone parents are on the housing list.
To qualify for the rent allowance you must be on the housing list.
Single mothers receive this allowance which allows them to rent from private landords.

by Dusk Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:28

Your way off

over 40% of the housing list are lone parents. They are waiting to be housed. They will be on the housing list for up to 10 years, depending on the conditions they live in, if they live in Dublin they have little chance of being housed. When a lone parent is offered a house its usually in an area that none of the expert middle class tossers, like Myires would even drive through. Often young lone parents living in these areas are easy pickings for teen gangs and have a hard time unless they have some brothers to protect them.

by dawn Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:09

Why did you kids do your leaving certs? Why did you go to college? Take a year out travelling in Australia? Get jobs?

All these options are open to you. There's no pressure to leave your family home, get with the program, have kid like everyone else and get your own place.

by edward viii - "took quite a few months actually" Mon Feb 14, 2005 23:13

and get DNA biometrics, and prove his parentage to us all? And thus settle the "is he a bastard question" once and for all?

by Jack Mon Feb 14, 2005 19:33

If myarse wants to hold a debate then he must follow the rules of debate.

Golden rule of debate
Research the topic to strengthen your argument. Know your subject. Cite stastics to bolster your position.

What myarse actually stated in his attempt to debate (apart from the labelling of all children of lone parent families bastards) was to cite facts and figures that simply are not true and are based on research carried out in the US.

by Ali H. Mon Feb 14, 2005 18:09

Apart from the B* word Myers described unmarried mothers as being variously, lazy, unambitious, incapable, crybabies (lachrymous) etc.

He described children born out of wedlock with the phrase "from such warped timber true masts are seldom made".

He described the fathers of children born out of wedlock as promiscuous sperm donors.

He also seemed to infer that most people who vote for Sinn Fein were illigitimate, and no doubt also infer that they were lazy, promiscuous etc.

In fact I'm very surprised that Sinn Fein have not seized the opportunity to give the hypocritical wanker and his boss the lambasting which they thoroughly deserve!

He also anticipated and promptly dismissed the veritable shitstorm he would find himself in (no doubt he felt that he would be able to dismiss it out of hand as coming from a bunch of commie-pinko-faggots).

His piece if you read it carefully has a go directly or indirectly at 30-50% of the Irish population and it is that and not the B* word that has landed him in all of the hot water.

Kennedy has shown herself to be completely unscrupulous and prepared to sink to the lowest depths in order to increase circulation for her now pathetic rag!

Hopefully if people keep up the pressure the two of them and their PD agenda will soon be history!

by not surprised Mon Feb 14, 2005 16:43

You're totally missing the point. What Myers said is what a sizeable proportion of the country believes, which is that the social welfare system is set up in such a way that it can incentivise SOME teenage girls to have kids.

All the brou-ha-ha was about his use of the word bastard, and a couple of mean-spirited swipes about the use of comparitives like 'whelping', which was totally distasteful. But he's entitled to say what the fuck he likes.

The fact remains that he will keep his job, and rightly so.

But at least he has stimulated debate. But of course, your common-or-garden Indymedia pest doesn't want debate, because they want to stifle everyone that they don't agree with.

Just look at the citizenship referendum as an example of how far out of touch with the majority of people libertarians are. And don't insult the country by saying we were all conned and didn't know what the fuck we were voting for.

Myers had the balls to say what many people think. He just fucked up by obscuring it with unnecessary petty insults.

by jeff Mon Feb 14, 2005 16:09

Have you actually got statistics that show what you say about 'middle class people', and 'mummy and daddy' to be fact? You most likely have not because there are no actual studies showing a class breakdown of single mothers.

Now on to context. There can be any number of reasons why young women become single mothers, and, more importantly, leave home. Child abusers. I have no statistics for them, but a lot of them seem to be middle class.

Case in hand; father abuses daughter, daughter grows up, runs away from home, low self esteem, drugs, pregnancy. Just one of many possible scenarios.

Of course, in shitty little plastic land where yourself and Myarse live, it is always the mothers fault, and it is because they want 'easy money' that they become pregnant.

Please choke on some cavier at your next drinks party.

by april Mon Feb 14, 2005 14:45

Comparing the Irish Times to a tabloid show s the condescension of the middle class contributers towards the preferred newspapers of a great many people in Ireland.

Single motherhood is a class issue. Middle class single mothers don't tend to drop out of school, and go on the housing list. Mummy & Daddy wouldn't stand for that and make alternative arrangements for them.

by nuala Mon Feb 14, 2005 14:40

Brenda Power make the exact same sentiments as Myers in January this year (in the Sunday Times). No-one took any notice because it was phrased in more polite language.

by paul Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:40

why didn't you check the ring fingers before?
you know, do your bit for society, if you see a pregnant young woman at the bus stop (generally easy to spot after the sixth month) why not grab her by the hand and check all her fingers?
If you don't find a ring, ask her is it in the hock.
if it isn't, make a note of her name, and when you've got a few ring bound notebooks filled up, send them to Justin Barret.

by peter Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:19

I'm glad the single mother issue has finally come into public view. Its a pity Kevin Myers had raise it in such a disagreable way.

by iosaf Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:44

we're all entitled to our opinions and to the expression of them as long as they don't incite hatred or violence to others, but we don't all get paid huge wads of cash on a weekly basis for publishing those opinions in one of the main national newspapers under the heading "an irishman's diary".
For goodness sake we live in the age of the blog, and the meanest intellect to ever fill the footprints of Flann O'brien is paid more than you'd imagine by two flagship titles in Ireland and England to publish crap which is offensive, clichéd and unhelpful to the "spirit of the age" which is the search for concensus and peace and justice of all types.

= Keep those letters and emails and faxes going.
No to Myers.
& No to Geraldine.

by PG - none Mon Feb 14, 2005 01:04

Hi

Everyone has overlooked the fact that kevin myers is a well respected person. He has had a glammer career. Is he asking the question of do we have an opinion on issues of ireland rather than saying all bastards are bastards? Of what I have seen of kevin myers since I was a wee lad maybe he is saying the question and the debate is far more important than the facts. Are people in Ireland not allowed to raise debate. Does kevin myers have to take a bitch slapping for the injustices in the world today just because he writes opinion. My point is their should nt be a limit on what we can debate and what we cannot. And if anyone can raise this debate any better than Myers did then write an artical better. I think he should come out and say his opinon matters and we all have an opinion. Wheather its a correct one or a ridiculas one as myers was clearly.

ignore spelling!

by Kevin Myers - Sunday Telegraph Sun Feb 13, 2005 17:42

'Sean? We'll do the bank tomorrow'
By Kevin Myers
(Filed: 13/02/2005)

There is a good reason why the Government is not moving to allow phone-taps as evidence to be used in terrorist trials: it is because they are only part of a state's complex intelligence armoury. Even to admit which part of a prosecution case was gained through monitoring phone-calls is to surrender to suspects – and their solicitors – a vital clue as to the terrorists' strengths and weaknesses.

Kindred spirits

Moreover, there seems to be a curious myth that telephone taps present some vital insight into the future. Alas, terrorists are seldom obliging people and seem almost criminally determined not to signal their objectives. That they might prepare to murder thousands without making that intention obvious in advance does, I know, seem a little antisocial, but there we are: criminal conspiracies often have a curious appetite for secrecy. Very distressing indeed: why can't they do the decent thing and take out a small ad in their local newspaper in the forthcoming marriages and mass-murder columns?

So the IRA, for example, in the run-up to their raid on the Northern Bank before Christmas, were unlikely to have organised it over the telephone. "Sean? Mickie here. We've got the Armalites out of the dump, and the get-away van's been stolen in Limerick. Hijack four cars on Saturday morning, and I'll see you round the back of the Northern Bank headquarters with the masks at 6pm, OK?"

It would be convenient for the security forces if terrorists conducted their operations with such commendable frankness and lucidity over the phone, but they usually don't. Telephone taps therefore only have any meaning in conjunction with a vast body of other intelligence material, most of which is acquired in complex and laborious ways. To give the enemy even a hint of these methods makes as much sense as it does for terrorists to declare over a loudspeaker in Millbank the time that the Semtex is arriving from Schipol Airport.

Moreover, a great deal of intelligence material has meaning only after terrorists have successfully completed an operation. This certainly seems to be the case for the Northern Bank robbery. British intelligence was apparently aware that the IRA had something in the offing, but what it was only became clear after the bank found itself lighter by £26 million.

We are unlikely ever to see whatever pertinent intelligence material the British have accumulated. However, it is so convincing that Commander John Grieve, formerly of the Metropolitan Police, and a member of the Independent Monitoring Commission, which accused the IRA of the robbery, declared that it was "as strong as anything I have seen".

However, in the event of a trial, this material, if used at all, would become transformed into evidence, to be assessed and dissected by counsel. To present some intelligence material as the product of phone-taps could, by deduction, expose the sources of other material. Some will be human – IRA personnel who have been turned. Others will be surveillance operations, employing an extraordinary amount of highly sophisticated and secret technology, and possibly vast numbers of people. No chink can be allowed in this armour, in court or elsewhere – for through that chink, an entire intelligence operation might be unravelled.

So no useful purpose can be served by making wire-taps available to court – indeed, the reverse. The admission of guarded conversations is unlikely to make any difference to a successful prosecution – but it could open a line of intelligence disclosure for counsel to follow up in court, and for terrorist groups to pursue outside it.

Northern Ireland is already Intelligence Central. One republican family in Northern Ireland recently found a huge listening device and transmitter unit had been built into the actual structure of their home by a military agent while they were on holiday. Probably thousands of houses in Northern Ireland are under permanent surveillance, and GCHQ remorselessly monitors telephone traffic and the internet in the province. Such sources probably led the International Monetary Commission to declare – in the same way that the authorities in London and Washington regularly declare that they "know" about specific threats from al-Qaeda – that Sinn Fein leaders knew of the Northern Bank robbery. However, the notion that there is potentially a body of electronically-acquired evidence that could be used in courts without compromising the broader intelligence picture is just simple-minded.

Simple-mindedness, on the other hand, seems to be the order of the day when it comes to Northern Ireland. What other term covers a Prime Ministerial apology, replete with that familiar, histrionic sympathy which on Wednesday he took out of the I Share Your Pain drawer? He donned it after dusting it down, and proceeded to deplore the injustice done to the Guildford Four and their families. But of course he neglected to regret or even mention the other, more terrible fate of the Guildford and Woolwich Seven and their families. You haven't, of course, heard of the latter, have you? They were the victims of the IRA bombs. They were Jean Slater (18) Ann Hamilton, (19), John Hunter (17), Paul Craig (22), Richard Dunne (42) and Alan Horsley (20). Gone and well and truly forgotten.

****************************************************
So you see Geraldine, he doesn't need the IT column after all, his "insight" is appreciated else where. And together with the income from his "best of" collection, there really is no reason to offer him space in the Irish Times again.

by R. Isible Sun Feb 13, 2005 17:35

see my quote of part of his "apology" in the comment linked to by the URI below

by C&P Sun Feb 13, 2005 17:28

COLUMNIST John Waters, who has a daughter with singer Sinead O'Connor, is taking legal advice with a view to suing the Irish Times for defamation arising out of the 'mother-of-bastards' article by columnist Kevin Myers.

The development will add to the pressure on Irish Times editor Geraldine Kennedy, who tried to draw a line under the controversy yesterday by publishing an apologia in which she admitted she had twice read the article before deciding to publish it.

Her explanation may serve to only further inflame the issue because, for the first time, Ms Kennedy admitted she took the decision to publish even though she believed the article to be "deeply offensive to children and their mothers" and stigmatised them.

Pointedly, Ms Kennedy did not say the article was deeply offensive to fathers.

In his column, An Irishman's Diary, on Tuesday, Mr Myers referred to the singer, Sinead O'Connor.

He wrote: "The lads who (in Sinead O'Connor's immortal word) are the donors are probably elsewhere, donating away wherever and whenever they can, and usually without having to pay a penny of child support for the results of their generous donations."

Mr Waters, who plays a full role in the upbringing of his and Ms O'Connor's nine-year-old daughter, Roisin, believes this statement grossly defamed him. On legal advice, he refused to comment yesterday. But he is to meet his lawyers this week.

The fathers of Ms O'Connor's other two children may also have a similar case against the Irish Times.

In April 2002, a High Court jury in Dublin awarded Mr Waters €84,000 plus legal

ANALYSIS

costs following a four-daylibel trial over an article in the Sunday Times by gossip columnist, Terry Keane.

Mr Waters sued the newspaper over an article entitled 'Allow me the last word on John Waters' world' in which Ms Keane criticised a speech delivered by Mr Waters before the start of a play in Dublin's Abbey Theatre in June 2000.

Mr Waters claimed that Keane's comments meant that he was a bad father to his daughter Roisin and unsympathetic to her needs. He told the court that the article had seriously damaged his reputation and his legal team argued that the words were published maliciously.

Yesterday, Ms Kennedy said she regretted publishing Mr Myers' column on Tuesday, but still clung to her belief that its publication "may have started the real debate".

In a departure from an editorial on Thursday, which expressed "regret" for publishing the column, Ms Kennedy yesterday said "sorry" - a tacit admission that the editorial did not go far enough.

The crisis is the worst to engulf Ms Kennedy in her two years at the helm of the newspaper. Her admission that she sanctioned the article will raise questions about her judgement, in a week when the newspaper was lambasted for publishing Mr Myers' words, both by the publicand by senior figures on her own newspaper.

A member of the Irish Times Trust, David Begg, said last week that he was shocked by the article and will raise it with the board. Three Irish Times columnists, and several staff, also criticised publication of the column. The offending article was published on Tuesday, after being read twice and approved by Ms Kennedy, despite objections from at least two senior editors, according to sources within the newspaper.

In what critics will say is a further lapse of judgement, Ms Kennedy decided against running an unqualified apology on Thursday, despite protests from some editors.

Instead, she ran an editorial that championed the ethos of the Irish Times in exposing "odious opinions" that could stigmatise children.

The editorial began: "Irish society has changed hugely in recent decades and at a pace that is breathtaking. Much of this change is for the good and has been led by the Irish Times."

Vincent Browne, another Irish Times columnist, has attacked the editorial's opening sentences for a display of "astounding self-regard that will haunt Geraldine Kennedy for the duration of her editorship". The editorial also said that the newspaper "regretted" the offence.

But the editorial was roundly criticised as inadequate by members of the public and by Ms Kennedy's own columnists. Mr Waters described it as "mealy-mouthed".

He also said: "Unless this is addressed adequately, today, then the editor should be removed in my view.

"I'm not calling for the editor to gratuitously resign. I'm saying that unless this is addressed openly and unshirkingly, and that these issues are dealt with, if the Irish Times is to fulfil its function in Irish society and prepared to put this up, then it has to come out and defend it." Mr Waters is understood to be considering whether he should address the controversy in his Irish Times column on Monday.

Ms Kennedy's predecessor, Conor Brady, said: "Kevin Myers should not have used the language he did to describe innocent children and unmarried parents. The Irish Times should not have allowed it through its editing process."

Mr Myers' own sister is an unmarried mother. Asked yesterday, he said he did not know how she would feel about the use of the word bastard, but he did not consider the word is always pejorative.

"As Sinead O'Connor said on the Late Late Show on Friday, she has three lovely bastards," he said.

(C) Independent newspapers.

by , Sat Feb 12, 2005 22:15

You didn't address my point - you think it was ok for our kev to compare pregnant single women to dogs through the use of the word whelping?

Yeah or nae?

You sound like some big snob. So what if i spell a bit different. Since you hate us all around here so much anyway why are you here?

did kevin send you?

They'll have room for you over at politics.ie

by interested - I never rant. Sat Feb 12, 2005 21:31

the Irish Times editorial committee passed a resolution Feb 9th 2005 pledging its commitment to freedom of speech and to the promotion of robust debate and the expression of diversity of opinion.

"However, we consider that the above can be achieved through adherence to the National Union of Journalists' (NUJ) code of conduct and without recourse to gratuitous abuse," it said.

The committee said it wanted to draw staff attention to the NUJ code and to the articles of association of the Irish Times Trust which promoted value of accuracy in reporting and the promotion of tolerance. through the paper's editorial policy.

One of the rules in the NUJ code of conduct states that a journalist

"shall mention a person's age, sex, race, colour, creed, illegitimacy, disability, marital status, or sexual orientation only if this information is strictly relevant".

A journalist shall neither originate nor process material which encourages discrimination, ridicule, prejudice or hatred on any of the above-mentioned grounds, it says.

Myers broke that code.
Geraldine did too.
and they together insulted an awful lot of people of all social and economic backgrounds by the use of an antiquated term and further compounded it with prejudice masquerading as "contrite apologies". The behaviour of an oik and an inept editor who has transformed what was once the primary Irish media organ into a bourgoise rag, which is why it is no longer carried on continental european news-stands.

by not surprised Sat Feb 12, 2005 20:30

What's with the use of a symbol instead of a written name? Are you a fan of Prince?

Well, comma formerly known as.....

"and as for your sorry rant at interested - interested does not reside here"

What the fuck does that mean?

"He compared thru his use of language"

Well thank God the language he used was stitched together a little more skillfully than yours. Are you seriously going to berate Myers for his use of language and then use words like "thru" and "mullah"? Learn how to write before you criticise the writing of others.

As for your point about the number of children born out of "wedlock", it makes no sense whatsoever.

Your obviously learned assessment that every family has a member born out of wedlock is of zero relevance at all here. Your figure of one-third relates to last year, but it hasn't been constant for the last few decades, comma, you "mullah". That's the highest it has ever been. And if you look back at the various years that all adults were born in, you'll see it is much, much smaller. So your revisionist maths are flawed, for one, and irrelevant, for another. He was making a point about the social welfare system, not about the morality of sex before marriage.

I couldn't give a fuck about whether or not Myers has a point. But he is entitled to express it. And the mock outrage perpetrated by the likes of our pet symbol, "comma", typifies the drudge that flows through Indymedia.

I'm still trying to figure out what point it was that you were making, comma. I'm sure there was one in there somewhere, but your writing is so bad that I just can't see it.

Myers expressed an opinion in an opinion column. He offended a huge bunch of people with that opinion. Big fucking deal!

He didn't libel anyone. He just offended people.

Get the fuck over it..

by , Sat Feb 12, 2005 20:02

single mothers to dogs.

'whelping'

That is not decent - it is dehumanising

and as for your sorry rant at interested - interested does not reside here

and as for his opinion being representative - 1/3 approx of kids born in ireland are born out of wedlock

a tiny tiny percentage to teenagers

I'd say that that roughly means that almost every family in The ROI has a member of the family somewhere who is/was born out of wedlock

His opinion is in no way representative

and your comments about lentil eaters etc suggest that you be one ultra-prejudiced mullah yourself

by not surprised Sat Feb 12, 2005 19:20

I was trying to be restrained the first time, but I've had it up to here with you lot of whingeing, moral-high ground occupying fruitcakes.

Stop batting on about a breach of NUJ principles, and show me what principles he breached. All you nutjobs have copies of the NUJ Code of Conduct, don't you! Put it up here and explain how he breached them.

To 'Interested', buy a copy of the paper if you want to read Kennedy's apology. It'll cost less than the price of your visit to the internet cafe to post your sorry little moan. Tell me, how did he breach 'decency'. Is there some sort of code for that? If he offended you, that doesn't mean he breached 'decency', it just means you didn't like what he said. Neither did I, but calling for his head is sheer censorship.

The people who didn't like what he said and are offended can have their voice heard in every other nook or cranny of Irish journalism that Myers doesn't occupy.

99% of the junk posted on this site is 100 times less well researched, 100 times less balanced and 100 times more off-the-wall than anything Myers has ever written. So stop choking on your lentils because he offended you. He has apologised to keep his job. He needs to go no further.

His is an opinion column, where he is supposed to express his opinion. He may have done so clumsily, but he made a mistake by misjudging the 'outcry' and that is it.

We all know that his opinion doesn't differ that much, on the subject of single mothers and benefits, from most of the people in this country.

Stop being so sensitive...

by interested Sat Feb 12, 2005 13:18

1- why Myers is a bastard and Geraldine unsuitable.
2- royal wedding
3- should Gerry get arrested?

It seems to me that there's something for everyone this week. Only thing is the Geraldine explanation of why she sanctioned the Myers column is subscription only. Would someone C&P it please and put it in our comments.

And keep those emails / letters / phone calls going. Those of us further away are still waiting our letters of complaint at the disgusting breach of decency and NUJ principles that resulted from the publication by the Myers column.

Most of the indymedia team, globally, and certainly in ireland, are parents. And most of us aren't married. That includes editors, contributors, tech code writers. Our experience as parents in modern society our hopes and our fears for our offspring are central to our concerns, and their influence on the development of our very broad trans-national alliance of social movements, assemblies and political parties may never be disregarded.

Many of us in Ireland grew up with a certain affection for the Irish Times, and indeed many of us learnt our first lessons of print media reading the Irish Times, that is why we often most respectfully invoke the memory of the late Douglas Gagesby. "you can not make the mistake of giving a minority too much space".

The Irish Times has sadly lost its position as the newspaper of quality and insight in the last years, and increasingly is becoming a publication which is completely out of touch with the views and needs of Ireland's modern parents. the Myers column sanctioned by Geraldine K. insulted countless parents and their young children in this last week. It is beyond doubt, that it is time for the "oik" Myers to leave the IT stable of writers, and it is clear that it is time for Geraldine K to consider the long term effect of her tenure on what was once an esteemed organ.

Mr Myers, you might have apologised to "your readers" but you did not apologise you "our children". Geraldine, you approved these insults, therefore you too, ought run on your pen, and try at long last to behave honourably.

(please C&P her explanation)

by Nordie Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:29

Who's Kevin Myres?

by Mike Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:25

Kevin Myres was perfectly right to express all these sentiments. We are supposed to live in a land of free speech. He sould be entitled so say as he feels / sees. Why should he have to apologise for this!!

by Nordie Sat Feb 12, 2005 07:55

Alright there. I haven't seen this website in quite some time. I wonder if all the owl hands are still about? Has Noel Coward joined the US army yet and went to Iraq or is he still fighting the forces of evil via the medium of nerd? Anyway, about Myers. I wrote this song in response to one he had wrote one time which went to the tune of Camptown Races and was about the IRA. Now, don't get me wrong, I aint a Provo supporter so before any fool starts crying that I only wrote this in response to Myers' ditty about the IRA because I'm a actually a secret Provo and can't stand Myers or anyone else criticising them, well I have to point out that is a big load of balls. This is only about Myers being a colossal hypocrite and a bloody big arse.

Song for Kevin Myers (What About the IRA?)

Who cheered on the Baghdad scorch?
I did. I did.
Shock and Awe it lit my torch,
Go USA!
Who likes bombs on Arab heads?
I do. I do.
Mothers, children ripped to shreds,
But what about the IRA?

Chorus: I dip my pen in blood red ink,
Filthy words all the way,
I raise a glass as the bodies start to stink,
But what about the IRA?

Who says it’s fab to shoot a prisoner of war?
I do. I do.
Cover that mosque with brains and gore,
But what about the IRA?

Who creamed his pants when Iraqis cracked like eggs?
I did. I did.
Now they have no arms and they have no legs,
But what about the IRA?

Chorus: Now lets all bomb Iran,
Turn life into decay,
Sizzle Arabs in the pan,
But what about the IRA?

Who screamed that Guantanamo residence proves your sin?
I did. I did.
They’re all fucking terrorists by the colour of their skin,
But what about the IRA?

Who whips up fears about the Muslims here?
I do. I do.
Saying they’ll kill our women and ban our beer,
But what about the IRA?

Chorus: Who kicked the gypos into touch?
No caravans round my way,
Filthy beggars want too much,
But what about the IRA?

Who supports the Cheney cause?
I do. I do.
Any lie he tells gets my applause,
But what about the IRA?

Who opposes violence then preaches might?
I do. I do.
Murder’s wrong except when it’s right,
But what about the IRA?

Chorus: I’ve never walked on the knife,
Been on the sidelines all my day,
Avoided war all my life,
Just wrote about the IRA.

by Bernardo O'Higgins Sat Feb 12, 2005 04:34

www. maryellensynon.com is still available for registration.

Myers is an offensive individual, but you can't help wondering if his shtick is part of a sales technique ... I hope no-one signed up on ireland.com. If Kennedy comes out with some freedom of speech crap in the IT on Saturday you'll know it is. He should be fired. So should that other tool John Waters.

by Not surprised Sat Feb 12, 2005 01:21

Myers is a knob, but he has the right to write what he wants under the law in an opinion column, provided he doesn't libel anyone or breach incitement laws, which he clearly didn't do.

So what if he offended half the country. They have more than enough column inches dedicated to defending them. That what a democracy is all about. - saying what you want, within bounds. He didn't break the rules. He has been adequately refuted.

The shite that is peddled on Indymedia day in and day out is no more balanced or properly researched than Myers' bullshit article. His was just written more skillfully than any of you lot could manage.

I hate his opinion, but I love the fact that he is allowed have one, and express it.

The day that journalists stop offending people will be a sad, sad day.

by willie the spear shaker Fri Feb 11, 2005 23:45

Stop scapegoating the poor bastard ....

It's not Myers who should be fired but rather the "Irish" Times that should be disbanded.

After all this is the newspaper of the "white nigger" brigade. Why does it surprise ye that they employ hirelings like Myers ?

by Ali H. Fri Feb 11, 2005 21:21

When it's written by bile spouting worthless parasite like Kevin Myers. This prick should be addressed as bastard from now on given he doesnt take offence at the term of abuse. His so-called apology is as worthless as he is. The only thing even remotely good enough for him would be a set of stocks on dOlier St. where he can beg forgiveness in sackcloth and ashes from those he offended before being summarily fired and sent to live under a bridge for the rest of his miserable worhtless life.

by willie the speak shaker Thu Feb 10, 2005 23:29

Thou, nature, art my goddess; to thy law
My services are bound. Wherefore should I
Stand in the plague of custom, and permit
The curiosity of nations to deprive me,
For that I am some twelve or fourteen moonshines
Lag of a brother? Why bastard? wherefore base?
When my dimensions are as well compact,
My mind as generous, and my shape as true
As honest madam's issue? Why brand they us
With base? with baseness? bastardy? base, base?
Who, in the lusty stealth of nature, take
More composition and fierce quality
Than doth, within a dull, stale, tired bed,
Go to the creating a whole tribe of fops
Got 'tween asleep and wake?--Well then,
Legitimate Edgar, I must have your land:
Our father's love is to the bastard Edmund
As to the legitimate: fine word--legitimate!
Well, my legitimate, if this letter speed,
And my invention thrive, Edmund the base
Shall top the legitimate. I grow; I prosper.--
Now, gods, stand up for bastards!

(From: The Tragedy of King Lear)

by newsforthedeaf Thu Feb 10, 2005 20:53

"I intended to hurt no one, but to cause people to discuss the subject first raised by Ed Walsh last week. It is a serious issue, which has emerged in other societies like ours, most particularly the US, where radical reforms in welfare have been made in order to curb the increase in mother-only families."

- Kevin 'apologising' Myers

What?
"emerged
in other societies like ours...
the US...
where...
radical reforms in welfare...
curb"
What emerged in the mainstream US media?

"The discussion in the mainstream media about welfare and welfare reform has centered on what Newsweek's columnist Joe Klein described as the "sexually irresponsible culture of poverty". The accusation that poverty is the result of the individual failings of single mothers to care for their families has shaped the debates about welfare. The actual lives, let alone ideas, of mothers on welfare have been pushed to the margins of debate unless they legitimize popular stereotypes.

What emerged from the historians of US social policy?

"Historian of social policy, Mimi Abramovitz writes in her book Under Attack, Fighting Back: Women and Welfare in the United States, "the glorification of Anglo-American motherhood, the belief in childrearing as exclusively women's work, the narrow vision of proper single mothers as widows and the identification of worthiness with assimilation [into white-Anglo middle class society] condemned other mothers who did not live up to these ideals as immoral and unworthy of aid."

What emerged from the power constituencies; US business/government?

"The programs that were able to generate support from power constituencies in the reform movement, business or the government, were programs that enforced the notion that public support was a burden on society and not a right of the public. The dichotomous notions of "worthy and "unworthy" mothers developed in the Mother's Pension program will continue throughout the evolution of welfare programs. Worthy women were rewarded with assistance barely above the poverty line, while unworthy mothers in poverty are further punished and made an example of to all of society.


What emerges from foresight?

"This paper aims to reconceptualize welfare, welfare reform and images of welfare mothers so that welfare recipients can continue to move from being objects in this debate to become subjects shaping this debate".

by EXPAT IRISH Thu Feb 10, 2005 18:42

I agree with you, if you actually read the article on travelers above it brilliantly reflects on the sad state of affairs in Ireland. Kevin has the balls to say what most hard working people in Ireland feel. Travellers SHOULD be held responsible legally for their breeches of law they are over indulged.I admire him for that. That does not mean I agree with his every word but he has the right to express his opinion. I met a wonderful Irish Travellor family once who had some beautiful and well cared for children and an immaculate mobile home. They told me that they were themselves disgusted by the behaviour of travellers who treat public and personal property with such disrespect and that they themselves suffered because of this. In his most recent article I think he was wrong to use the term "bastards" for children born into single parent families and it only served to deflect from his article as a whole.

by R. Isible Thu Feb 10, 2005 16:21

He appears to hold up the "welfare reforms" initiated by Clinton in the USA as some sort of model of what ought to be done in order to instill "work discipline" into the next generation of children. I wonder does he have any idea at all of what that sounds like? Especially when it's coupled with such outlandish assesments of "freedom of speech" as in:

"I transgressed the limits of freedom of speech in the tenor of my remarks."

No, you didn't Mr. Myers! You spoke your depraved mind and expressed your detached and inaccurate opinions well within the limits of free speech. Now, you've exposed your faulty evaluation of free speech as well as your complete inability to support your statements about how "other societies" have had "failed experiments" with single-mother families. So, lets have some _facts_ to back up those assertions. I wonder have you been listening to other fact-free pundits?

by jeff Thu Feb 10, 2005 16:19

Myarse, reading his apology, seems to still think that a large number of single parents become so because the Social Welfare system encourages this? Like your average single mother has said to any oul guy ' Hey, I've decided on a career-I'll be a single mother. Then I'll get a steady income from the tax payer, a free flat. It is great. All I have to do is go through nine months of preggers, then eighteen years of child rearing, and thats it. What a bargain!"

The evil state, it has conned loadsa mothers out of ( wait for it) FREEDOM!

(The inside of arses head, of course, is probably decked out in corporate logos, portraits of Ayn Rand and Reagen, and crap trumpet music one hears on Fox News and Pro Bush rallys.)

Fuck his apology. I wish him and Mary Ellen Slimeball would get fucked up in a car wreck, and have to join the queue for Disability. C*nts. And then have single mothers walk past with their buggys laughing at them..

by Davy Carlin - ARN and Street Seen Thu Feb 10, 2005 15:26

From Belfast, many are asking, if he has resigned or if the Irish Times are going to keep him there?

by Pony Merchant Thu Feb 10, 2005 13:18

This is copy and pasted from Irish Times, any similarity to a real "Irishman" is purely coincidental. Todays editorial has a weasely "sorry but" excuse for an apolgy as well.


An Irishman's Diary


Here follows an unconditional apology for my remarks the other day on the issue of unmarried mothers, writes Kevin Myers.

So many readers have been made extremely angry by what I said that it is clearly not merely an issue of political correctness or social conformism. Their feelings are real, passionate and heartfelt, and I bitterly regret clouding an issue of major importance in Irish life by using provocative, ill-thought-out and confrontational language.

I was trying to insult nobody, but trying to discuss the subject of the rising tide of unmarried mothers, with the resultant increase in fatherless families, in an astringent and irreverent way. To take an issue of such sensitivity and present it in challenging language is risky; and in taking such risks, I failed lamentably. Indeed, by unintentionally insulting so many people, I lost both my audience and the argument - leaving me with much to regret and even more to apologise for.

I intended to hurt no one, but to cause people to discuss the subject first raised by Ed Walsh last week. It is a serious issue, which has emerged in other societies like ours, most particularly the US, where radical reforms in welfare have been made in order to curb the increase in mother-only families. In tackling this subject, I deliberately used the word "bastard" because I genuinely feel that the word has no stigma attached to it; and because I feel this with such a passion, I did not allow for other people's sensitivities over it.

Here I was wrong, very wrong. A journalist who wishes to make a controversial case, and who knows he is straying into difficult areas of sensibility, must be careful of people's feelings. I did not take the necessary care, and the outpourings of emotion and anger which have occurred are clear proof of this.

These words are not written at the request of the editor or anyone else, but entirely at my own initiative. This newspaper allows me great latitude to express my opinions, which are often at variance with those of my colleagues, and sometimes with our overall editorial stance.

This is one of the strengths of The Irish Times. We stand not merely for freedom of thought, but for freedom of expression also.

But there are limits to all freedoms, and I transgressed the limits of freedom of speech in the tenor of my remarks. I intended to abuse no one and to insult nobody. For this issue is not about individuals but a serious social phenomenon which must be addressed by the State. We cannot tolerate a situation in which large numbers of young women are drawn into the perils of early and unmarried motherhood by the allure of the apparent protection afforded to them by the State. This "protection" is a trap, in which young woman can spend the rest of their lives, thwarting them of ambition, purpose and any proper individuality away from a chronic State dependence.

This is good for no one, least of all the children, who not merely are raised without the disciplines of work and wage, but also without the presence of a male authority figure in their lives. Other societies have pioneered the mass experiment in fatherless families, and they have found them as way-stations to male delinquency, gang membership and criminality.

Some people have argued that the loss of so many men in two world wars in Europe and the US did not cause the male children of families thus made fatherless to become disruptive. But societies were more stable then, and usually other male figures - uncles, grandfathers, brothers - were there to assert themselves as centres of authority.

We live in different days, when society is more fluid, more dynamic and, for all the wealth that we now enjoy, more uncertain. I believe that families are better off with two parents; and though of course many, many single mothers are splendid and responsible parents, as a social construct we cannot do better than the two-parent family.

And this is not just for the good of the children, but for the good of the mother too: the burden of child-rearing is best shared, and not borne on the shoulders of a young woman who drifted into motherhood as a teenager because, for the moment, it seemed an attractive option.

For all the State benefits that a young single mother gets, the penalties are huge, and the price paid is enormous - not least the loss of personal freedom through her twenties, when she might be stranded in a flat, with young children to mind, and no outside support, day in and day out, for year after dreary year.

I wrote my column because of my concern for those who have already been lured into this trap, or are about to be drawn into the career of benefit-dependent single-motherhood. I feel passionately about the predicament that a dysfunctional welfare system is creating, usually for the most vulnerable, unwary and the most helpless in our society. Middle-class girls are seldom so misled.

In my desire to make my point powerfully, I used stupid, offensive language, and I deeply apologise for that. To Irish Times readers who were so offended and appalled at my words, from the bottom of a full and contrite heart, I am very, very sorry.

by Ush Thu Feb 10, 2005 13:14

As one of the so-called bastards that mr myers referred to it is a pity he choose to highlight this problem in such a badly thought out manner.

The fact the mr myers upset a few people is far less damaging to society than a whole generation of children raised by single parents. I don't know what shocked me more, that these comments were allowed to get into print or the level of reaction from the public even by people who hadn't read the article.

Lets hope this doesn't Mr Myers from expressing his opinion in his usual well researched well written manner. I rarely agree with many of his articles but the world would be a lesser place with out people who truely gave their opinion in such and eloquent manner.


I must say I agree with him on his article on travellers (above)

by reader writer candlestick maker Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:12

- is subscription only.

Am I really to be expected to pay 7€ to download his "unconditional apology"?

Would it not be better that the man just resign?

He has breached the NUJ code.
He has insulted countless Irish citizens.

And we are supposed to accept yet another column article (for which he has been paid) as an apology?

Run on your sword (=pen) Mr Myers and stop being a coward, if your readers appreciate you they will buy your "best of" collection. But don't think an apology will do now. You are a veteran oik. Leave the column to another Irishman or Irishwoman. Your time is done.

by Sean Crudden Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:59 087 9739945

There's many a good amateur better than a bad professional. Look at Bobby Jones for example.

by P1 Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:35

It is perverse how a person as unrepresentative as Myarse can get media time and space. It does however reflect the arch-conservative instincts of the ruling class that controls our media. Her's another example from the RTE website this morning:

"Prince Charles to marry Camilla Parker Bowles
10 February 2005 09:28"

Now how on earth can any journalist consider this to be relevant news for an Irish audience?

by Amused Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:31

I would say, no. Many laughed when somebody who wanted to arrest George Bush on his visit to Ireland used the label 'Indymedia journalist' to gain publicity in the corporate media. To say you're a journalist because you post to this web site is like saying you're an electronic engineer because you occasionally change a light bulb. People who post here are not professional journalists or writers, and more often than not that shows in the quality. Those who are professional journalists or writers don't post here in their professional capacity, as it's not a professional forum. I'm not saying that the tabloid media is always any better, but at least there is sub-editing going on in the vast majority of papers, and at least a fair quantity of people working for them know how to use syntax and how to research. Sometimes, the quality here is great, but that happens only once in a while. If you want to be a journalist, you should take your aspirations to another medium, because nobody will take you seriously if you say you're an Indymedia journalist. It's essentially an amateur forum, though a useful one for the activist community and one I am happy to use every so often.

by Noel Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:14

Am I the only one round these parts who thinks Kevin Myers is a wonderful journalist?

by Shane O'Neill - Indy media journalist Thu Feb 10, 2005 00:49 shaneon at indigo dot ie 086-3188-199

On a totally different tack, here's a question for you all.

Can I call myself a journalist if I write for this website - but have no journalistic training?

by Shane O'Neill - Indy media journalist Thu Feb 10, 2005 00:01 shaneon at indigo dot ie 086-3188-199

IN RESPONSE TO PEPE LE PEW:
I am neither left wing nor right wing, I sit on top of the airoplane and take in the breeze from all sides.

Someone calling Bush Satan is clearly non factual, however one could legitimately take an intense dislike to that man for the war like stance he has taken to date, and will continue to take I have no doubt.

One couldn't blame anyone when they say that the respect they once held for the United States of America has no dissapated, and it will take a long time for the respect to be earned again.

by Shane O'Neill - member of public Wed Feb 09, 2005 23:49 shaneon at indigo dot ie 086-3188-199

If I am incorrect about Ms Synon being on contract, then I throw my hands up to everyone and say "I was wrong"

by eeekkkkk Wed Feb 09, 2005 23:33

.

by Barry Wed Feb 09, 2005 23:23

This is because for so long in Irish journalism, one of the main requirements was that you were absolutely opposed to anything remotely approaching republicanism, past or present and that you were a Brit loving gobshite. Thats why so many of our crap journalists are just that. Brit loving gobshites. And thats why they have jobs.

Remember the reburial of Kevin Barry and the forgotten 10 ?

The streets of Dublin thronged with ordinary working class people, many with tears streaming down their faces. And Irelands cream of journalism labelled them all grotesque terrorist scum. What type of journalism was that.

They are some crew, but that tramp Myers has really outdone himself this time. Cherish the children of the nation equally and sack the scumbag.

by pc Wed Feb 09, 2005 22:53

how did it come about that he got his own special section?

by Deirdre Clancy - pit stop ploughshares Wed Feb 09, 2005 22:27

Pundit is actually right. MG said "It is not 'historians' who defend Irving's alleged "Freedom" of Expression", it is holocaust deniers who do so. I have NEVER met a historian who defended Irving. Incidentally this includes Irving himself, as his qualifications are in Engineering, not history."

Actually, MG, you're wrong. Several prominent and respected (but not by me) historians in England have defended David Irving. Among them are military historian Sir John Keegan and Donald Cameron Watt. Both of these testified on Irving's behalf during his libel action against historian Deborah Lipstadt, who is one of his outspoken critics. Keegan spoke of Irving's "all-consuming knowledge" of diverse subjects, amongst other glowing statements on his behalf. Both men defended Irving's right to freedom of speech, using this as their main pretext for testifying on his behalf. It was all rather dubious and appalling, actually, especially as in this instance Irving was questioning Lipstadt's freedom of opinion. You can't have it both ways. Just as the Irish Times can't have it both ways, and be regarded as a model of tolerance and cultural diversity and yet publish Myers hateful rants simultaneously.

It might be an idea to do your homework before you so confidently go about correcting people's actually correct facts. You may never have met a historian who defended Irving, but that's hardly an indication that none have done so. It's been happening quite publicly for years.

I'm glad to see that Fintan O'Toole is prepared to come out and say he is sickened by the Myers article. He was on 5-7 Live earlier, and said he was embarrassed that the Irish Times had sunk to that level. Still, it's bizarre that the article got by the editors/sub-editors.

by Martin - n-a Wed Feb 09, 2005 21:18

I'm surprised it has taken this long in calling for the head of Meyers!!!!I've always found him to be a pompous twit, totally disengaged from the social and political scene in Ireland.

Also, please dont comment on the state of Irish journalism, its been in a mess for years. Take any newspaper and you'll find glaring journalistic impropriety at work. Who to blame? It strikes me that the majority of newspaper editors in this country are ultra conservative gobshites.

by Pepe Le Pew Wed Feb 09, 2005 20:40

Shane O'Neill - "That right however is forfeited if one expresses something that causes deep offence, is racist in nature or incites hatred of a group of (sic) individual."

Please quantify - What if you incite hatred of a group or individual with National Socialist tendencies?
What if you write an article calling George Bush "Satan" - or is freedom of speech a lefty weapon only?

Have you noticed that Myers' comments have sparked national debate? Most news-reporting radio stations discussed it this morning. Is this not a healthy thing, especially when most people are disagreeing with him. True, what he said in his article, I also found offensive but Im comfortable with knowing that he is wrong and often positive things come out of articles like his one due to backlash. Preventing people from voicing their opinions in print is regressive and repressive, its not like he was at a rally or something and whipping a crowd into a frenzy.
Tell him he is wrong and try to change his mind, but dont censor people who put forward constructive arguments, just counter them.

For the record I completely agree with Shane in regard to Mary Ellen-Synon, and I believe that Myers is a completely out-of-touch West Brit full of self importance who, only for his accent, just about stays above village idiot status.

by eeekkk Wed Feb 09, 2005 20:22

e-mail address above is bogey. The point will get across if you write to this one lettersed@irish-times.ie

by jeff Wed Feb 09, 2005 20:18

I wrote this to the Times today


'Dear Sir,

It is sad to see the Irish Times reduced to the level of a hate mongering tabloid. I am referring to Kevin Myarses write up, or should I say scrawl, labeling unmarried, single mothers in receipt of lone parent allowance, as 'mothers of bastards.'

How slick of this reprobate to look down from his upper class professional lifestyle, and cast judgment on the characters of single mothers. Perhaps he wishes for a return to the Magdalen laundries? Either way, this loser has personally insulted me, because a number of good friends of mine are single mothers.

Just because single mothers are in receipt of state allowance does not mean they are cruising with the jet set, unlike Myarse, who, in my view, has achieved his ill gotten 'career' via hobnobbing, and the sort of perverse luck the universe seems to accord the undeserving.

Meanwhile, there are single mothers just coming out of a life of unfortunate circumstances, trying to get their lives together, and the lone parent allowance helps them.The last thing they need is a so called professional columnist tarring them all with the same brush, and convincing those in better, haughtier circumstances to do likewise.

This is not responsible, and it is not fair. What kind of a culture are their children being born into that encourages them to be called 'bastards', a medieval, outdated and offensive, insulting term.

These days, there is only one use for this term, and it is used to describe pimples like Myarse. Stop putting food on this pond life's table. Oh, and remind him when he is clearing out his desk to wear a brown paper bag over his head in public. Ireland of the past once applauded Myarse's sentiments. These days, bigotry earns disdain. Thus, the paper bag might afford Myarse's corporeal frame some endurance.

Yours in Anger and Disgust,

Geoffrey Dolan'

Of course, I forgot to write, ; Dear Sir/ Madam,

No doubt they'll use that against me to completly disregard the point I was trying to make. Better write an apology to them for not including that piece! Cunts.

by mise Wed Feb 09, 2005 19:40

I do believe the Bastard Law's were done away with some time ago. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is not surprising - it shows the Victorian mindset of a lot of Irish people, and to prove my point...

I recently accompanied my brother, who has a daughter 'born out of wedlock', to the solictors to sort out some legal stuff after the deaths of our parents. The SOLICITOR twice referred to the little girl as a BASTARD in our presence. The meeting didn't last long...

by Reality Check Wed Feb 09, 2005 19:16

Killian,
That is confirmed.
And unlike what the so-called "Indymedia journalist" said above, she was never on a contract.

by Killian Wed Feb 09, 2005 19:14

My understanding is that the Sindo only got rid of Synon when the advertising from the health boards in the jobs section was either pulled or was threatened to be.

can anyone confirm?

by MG Wed Feb 09, 2005 18:37

It is not 'historians' who defend Irving's alleged "Freedom" of Expression", it is holocaust deniers who do so. I have NEVER met a historian who defended Irving. Incidentally this includes Irving himself, as his qualifications are in Engineering, not history.

by lonelystenciller Wed Feb 09, 2005 18:37

.

The Irish Tabloid?

by Pundit Wed Feb 09, 2005 18:28

I know it may seem a bit unrealistic, given that all the liberals in Donnybrook will be defending freedom of expression (in the same way some historians defend David Irving's freedom of expression), but I do think people should try to boycott the Irish Times. It's now clear that it's modelling itself on the Sindo.

Not only does it have scum like Myers and Steyn writing for it, but it also cloaks itself in a veneer of respectability which clearly is no longer valid. It has a couple of good journalists, but one or two good journalists does not a good paper make. The so-called "paper of record" is not recording the opinions of the vast majority of Irish people.

For once, I agree with John Waters - Geraldine Kennedy should resign, effective immediately. Not only does she sanction this gutter journalism, but the quality of the journalism in general has gone seriously down the tubes in the paper. I used to enjoy the weekend magazine, and then it started publishing twee, bimbo-ish pieces, such as open letters to Justin Timberlake by Roisin Ingle (who, incidentally, was on the telly slamming the anti-bin charge campaigners as spongers who just didn't want to pay tax, showing a complete lack of understanding of what the campaign was about ). It also, for some unknown reason, has given a column to Tony Blair's step-mother-in-law, seemingly for no apparent reason. To compound the problem, the paper that still has traces of the anglo-Irish ideology and classism it's supposed to have shed.

The Irish Times has gone down the tubes in a big way. It's no longer the refuge of Ireland's intelligenstia it pretends to be (if it ever really was).

by Shane O'Neill - Indy media journalist Wed Feb 09, 2005 18:11 shaneon at indigo dot ie 086-3188-199

Myers- Synon
KEVIN MYERS AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH
I believe that everyone no matter who they are have a right to free and fair expression.

That right however is forfeited if one expresses something that causes deep offence, is racist in nature or incites hatred of a group of individual.

This issue has come to the fore recently due to an article that appeared in the Irish Times.

The article written by Kevin Myers dealt with the issue of unmarried mothers, and their according to Myers, abuse of the state services.

He referred to unmarried mothers as mothers of bastards.

A colleague of Myers, Mary Ellen-Synon took to the airwaves today (Wednesday 9th February) on Liveline (RTE Radio One: 13.45 GMT) openly defended him expressing personal opinion

She further rubbed salt in people’s wounds, by asking callers who spoke to her what their marital statues were.

One caller said she was unmarried and had a daughter, to which Synon said something to the effect of why did she have a baby out of marriage in such a tone of voice, and in a manner of questioning that suggested to those listening that she (Synon) was casting aspersions on not only this caller, but ALL people who are unmarried and have children.
She responded to Synon by detailing that she had lost her marriage due to infertility, and in a new relationship, had conceived.

That Synon asked her her situation and then proceeded to comment in the manner she did, shows her complete and natural railroading into the lives of others without any concern for the feeling of her targets.
It is interesting to note that she refused point blank to answer question about her (Synons) situation.

Lets not forget that Mary Ellen-Synon and the Sunday Independent “Parted Company” over her article written in her weekly column where she said that those with special needs shouldn’t be allowed to partake in the Olympics, because they should not be allowed to pretend to be normal and should not flaunt their imperfections in public.

She did not mention that she came under relenting pressure for an apology to be issued to those offended, or that the reason the Sindo (Sunday Indo) terminated her contract was because of the amount of callers that flooded the lines to talk shows of which Liveline was only one verbalising their extreme anger over the comments that were not checked by any editor or sub-editor to check for any inaccuracies, falsehoods etc.


Shops refused to stock the Sindo for weeks after her article appeared and the callers to Liveline went on and on for days and days, one of the longest items ever to dominate to programme apart from the issue of child sex abuse so bravely raised in a programme called ‘Dear Daughter’ in which Christine Buckley spoke of her ordeals in a state orphanage, and later in ‘States of Fear’ where more people spoke of their traumas.

If I were to refer to Condeleesa Rice, or Chris Eubank as a nigger, this article would be pulled of the internet on the spot.
Why should Myers (My arse) be allowed to write his article and not be censored?
As of now (17:00) the editor of the Irish Times Geraldine Kennedy, nor Myers himself have responded in any way to any of the anger at the comments aired.

Myers and Kennedy, over to you
The e-mail address of the Editor of the Irish Times is editor@irish-times.com

Shane O'Neill
Templeogue
Dublin
Ireland

by Neck breaker Wed Feb 09, 2005 16:14

She went awfully quiet after writing that social darwinist piece on blind people and the special olympics. She completly shut up when someone sent a bomb to her house.

Personally, I hope Myarse does not get a bomb. However, I do hope he gets CJD. Then we'll see how clever he is, how witty, how irasicible. Indeed. He'd love to see himself in the mirror drooling like the nobody he should be. I wish he'd sink back into that slimhole he was spawned from. He is scum.

Definatly a candidate for the Anti Conservative Psychick Warfare Movement. It won't be McDowell I'll be psychickally attacking tonight. It'll be Myarse's potency. Woah, har, har, har, har, har!

by Michael Hennigan Wed Feb 09, 2005 16:09

What is laugable is Mary Ellen Synon, the former mistress of Rupert Pennant-Rea ex-Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, asking a lone parent on Liveline why she decided to have a child as if the said Synon is some model of restraint.

She can claim at least to have been responsible for the Sun's famous headline - The Bonk of England.

As for Myers, he's good at dishing it but not vice versa.

I recall some years ago, Eamon Dunphy on the Last word was on the phone to him to discuss Myers' claim that the writer Francis Stuart was anti-semitic. Myers had previously made a reference to one of Stuart's novels to bolster his case. (Stuart had worked as a teacher in Germany during World War II).

Dunphy asked Myers if he had read the book but Myers wouldn't answer. Myers threatened to hang-up and then proceeded to do it.

The Irish Times should learn that trying to reflect a spectrum of views by providing a platform for siren voices is not balance.

by Reality Check Wed Feb 09, 2005 15:59

Here's Myers having a go at travellers. And there was I thinking he was writing about a group of travellers, who were trying to hold the country to ransom.

An Irishman's Diary
By Kevin Myers

Why did Dublin City Council erect a concrete barrier at Dunsink? Was it to stop the Canadian Navy from dumping four somewhat-used submarines there? That would have been a good reason. Another reason is that probably their equivalent in scrap is dumped there every year and the council has a right to stop it. Well, what about the Travellers who are resident there? What about them? Most of them are there illegally. No one makes them stay there. If the blocks make life inconvenient for them, they should move on.
Of course, they logically should have done that years ago, because Dunsink Lane has been an "uninhabitable" cesspit for at least a decade. Had the people squatting there not been called "Travellers", and had not their preference for living amid such squalor not been dignified with the word "culture", then their children would have been put into care, and they would have been served with eviction notices, to be followed in short order by the bailiffs.
Dunsink has less to do with concrete blocks than the existence of a system of apartheid which creates a category of people called Travellers who are immune to some of the laws which apply to the rest of the Irish people. Dunsink for years has been a centre of organised theft and diesel-laundering. Many Traveller vehicles are either UK-registered, uninsured or untaxed. Moreover, the State has created laws which impose duties upon local councils towards Travellers which have no equivalent for the larger community. Travellers have been indulged with the creation of a legal status and legal protection, but without a legally binding definition of what a Traveller is - the true hallmark of the fuzzy thinking and unprincipled cowardice with which we have not been facing up to the Traveller issue.
We have created a dependent community within the Irish State which has now become pathologically dysfunctional. Nearly three-quarters of Traveller men are officially unemployed, yet Dublin has imported 30,000 Chinese people in the past five years - not one of whom, I bet, is on the dole.
Bishop Willie Walsh in Killaloe a couple of years ago allowed Travellers to park their caravans on his palace-land - temporarily, or so he thought. Once there, they refused to go, despite his increasingly desperate requests that the lack of toilets had disagreeable consequences for everyone. Finally, he persuaded the families to move - but they went directly into the car-park of the newly opened headquarters of Clare County Council. After a while, they were evicted, and where did they go? Why, back to the poor bishop's lawns.
Some time later, Co Clare opened up a small show estate for travellers, with halting-sites and €300,000 houses. Two families on the bishop's land were offered the new homes and left, but then decided they didn't like their new Traveller-neighbours. Bishop Walsh sought to bring peace between the feuding families, but unavailingly. The newly housed family then abandoned the house they had just been allocated and departed in their caravan. Where to? Back once again to Willie Walsh's gardens, of course.
The crowning moment of Clare's Traveller policy came last year as the county council was preparing to host a reception in Ennis to welcome the Russian competitors in the Special Olympics for mentally handicapped athletes. No sooner had the council gates opened than a convoy of traveller caravans occupied the car-park, and the welcoming reception for these wretchedly unfortunate Russians had to be cancelled.
Travellers' perception of the world has been shaped by a State which does not insist upon their having any concept of duties, and which tolerates every social deviancy which in any other community would be a cause of opprobrium. Traveller life is caste-based, unhealthy, highly alcoholic, illiterate, often violently misogynistic and low-achieving - two-thirds of Traveller children have abandoned all education by the age of 15. Most of all, Travellers are cursed with a life expectancy at least 10 years shorter than that of the rest of the population.
The Irish media have invariably treated stories of Traveller excess - the savage faction fights, the drunkenness, the endless trespasses - with a querulous, hand-wringing timidity. Traveller expectations are thus always about the conduct of others, not of themselves - and these expectations have been ruinously fuelled by the workings of the Equality Agency, which has created the expectation that there is only Traveller victimhood, never traveller liability.
The State has taken upon itself the duty of protecting the Traveller way of life, when it sees no duty to protect any other way of life. Every local council in the land has a legal duty to house homeless citizens, and as citizens, homeless Travellers can avail themselves of that system. But thousands of Travellers prefer to remain on illegal halting sites, or wait their turn for their special Traveller privileges from a State towards which so few of them make any contribution whatsoever.
Travellers remain in squalor because they actually choose to. The escape routes exist: they merely have to avail of them. Economically and socially, the basis of the travelling tradition is over, just as the basis of Irish shipyard and jute traditions are over, just as forty-shilling freeholders are over, just as the feudal system is over.
Only political weak-mindedness and fear of being labelled "racist" causes the State to continue to prop up an obsolete, economically parasitical and personally destructive tradition with grants, special laws or even no laws at all. And what we have got in return for such misdirected and utterly destructive kindness? Why, petrol bombs and gardaí in riot gear at Dunsink.

by Jim Wed Feb 09, 2005 15:58

Because all of us are bastards - does he think that the first Homo Sapiens were married before they mounted eachother.
Any atheists will tell you that since God is dead then all marriages are unconsecrated- "What God has joined let no man pull asunder" - making them unvalid - when your father covers your mother tonight they are in fact fornicating and the offspring of that act of copulation is a bastard.
I'm a bastard, your a bastard, we're all a right shower of bastards!
BASTARDS!

by Media Watcher Wed Feb 09, 2005 15:05

Mary Ellen Synon is on LiveLine at present defending Myers and also saying how fond she is of John Waters.

by hear hear Wed Feb 09, 2005 14:23

so that it can be qouted in the correspondence.
and anyone else got other articles of complaint from him in either the IT or the Sunday Telegraph?
he's horrible, its years and years of being really unhelpful, at home *and abroad* lets end Myers please.

by pat c Wed Feb 09, 2005 14:20

but letters also work. remember the Sindo dropped mary ellen synon after her diatribe against the differently abled. this happened after the sindo got about 1,000 letters of complaint.

by the Fitz - "no child is illegitimate" Wed Feb 09, 2005 14:08

let's all invest a euro in complaint. & write 2 letters asking that he no longer be afforded space in The Irish Times or The Telegraph.

by had enough Wed Feb 09, 2005 13:46

You are right sloppy to say the least and full of the usual misconceptions. A high proportion of lone parents WORK. But I suppose his response will be that the children are growing up without adequate parenting. Lone parents just cannot win.

When are we going to apply some pressure to this fucker? Something stronger than a letter in the IT? Only last month he had a go at travellers. Lets picket the IT.

by Dave Lordan - SWP Wed Feb 09, 2005 13:41

A few comments on Myer's article.

Firstly many people are asking why he was allowed to print it. Myer's is basically PD unmasked and Geraldine Kennedy the Irish Times editor is a PD. Myer's supports the idea of workfare-forcing people on benefit to work in low paide desade end menial jobs and wants to prepare the ground for this ideologically by accusing people on benefit of laziness and dishonesty. Remember Harney's sickening comments about single mother's a few years ago.

The idea that single mother's are scroungers.
This is indeed laughable given the ten's of millions of euro in taxpayer's money given to right-wingers pet companies like RYANAIR.
The billions given away in charity to corporations through our low corporate taxes and tha many tax scams and loop-holes far outweighs the social welfare budget.

If single mother's did go to work, who is going to mind their children? There are no affordable childcare places in Ireland. We need publically funded creches in every community to allow single parents to live decent lives.


Sex education and Reproductive rights. Firstly it should be obvious that Celtic Tiger Ireland, one of the richest societies in the world, would be able to provide a decent life for every child born here, as well as allowing parents to work and pursue careers and education, if only our resources were distributed more equally. A major sex education program including free and freely available contraceptives as well as free legal abortion on demand would also help to give women more choice over how they live their lives. We will not get these rights while the people who Myer's speaks for are running the country.

www.swp.ie

by pat c Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:49

its also sloppy journalism by myers and sloppy research by ed walsh. the 80, 000 people in receipt of lone parents allowance also includes widows, widowers, deserted spouses. the most elementary checking of facts would have revealed this.