What is Truth?

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice Fri Jan 28, 2005 01:44

Kevin

What a considerable amount of revelation in this article.

Roll on the Ethics Audits, the anti-corruption ethos within each person on this Island of Ireland.

I was watching Newsnight tonight......A young person in the audience made a most unusual suggestion. Ken Livingstone spoke of the UK being the only country in Europe not invoking History education to the age of 16. This has quite a shocking outcome for a whole generation of young people.

The young man suggested that rather than focus on History.......Why not the Morals of History.

Now that is a challenge for Governments.


Michelle Clarke

by mmmm Fri Jan 28, 2005 02:05

is a pussycat compared to ronald mc d's irish cousin

by Barry Fri Jan 28, 2005 02:36

Hopefully Colm will be successful in his bail application tomorrow. This mans case was a prime example of trial by tv. The Gardai told the world "this was the guilty man". He was demonised and hounded throughout the media as Public enemy no1.

Now its the guards themselves, FINALLY, wholl have to answer for some of their crimes at least. Over 40 counts of perjury. Colm made no statements admitting responsibility for anything. He should never have been in jail in the first place.

Sickeningly also we have the case of the Dublin Monaghan bombings, where state papers have mysteriously vanished.

Then we have the case of Garda White, and the firearm and ammunition which promptly disappeared from evidence once his legal team demanded they be tested for DNA.

There should be an immediate public enquiry into the extent to which this force not only "co-operates" with British military intelligence, but as to how deeply penetrated it is by them. It seems to me that MI5 essentially control Special Branch in particular, and have done for decades.

As for Sinn Fein, its hard to have any sympathy for their current predicament.

Only a fortnight prior to the Northern Bank robbery Pat Doherty accompanied a BBC Spotlight team in Strabane and the northwest and publicly pointed the finger of blame at "dissident" republicans for a number of major robberies from commercial premises. He claimed the "dogs in the street" knew who was responsible, and demanded to know why the RUC/PSNI werent doing enough to lock them up.

Now they find themselves on the recieving end of the same sort of felon setting, political opportunism they were themselves engaging in only a few weeks ago, it's poetic justice of a kind. Im not jumping on the establishment band wagon, but its their utter hypocricy which is galling.

by Kevin Walsh - Social Justice and Ethics Fri Jan 28, 2005 20:51

This morning, reading the paper, it is ironic that I wrote the article on the Gardai and corruption, last night. A mysterious break-in to a female Garda house. The Garda in question is Gardai Tina Foley, who has yet to give evidence, in relation to the McBrearty affair.

Gardai Foley's evidence is going to be quite bizarre also because she has already told the Gardai Investigation Team for the McBrearty case that she saw a senior Garda officer forging a witness statement.

I ask again what is Truth? Chief Superintendent Denis Fitzpatrick who was always on Crimeline making his nationwide speeches on road traffic and how people ought to behave on the roads. Well, Denis left in a very big hurry before Christmas with his lumpsum and a pension. Fitzpatrick is also involved in the McBrearty affair and will be called back to give evidence, at least hopefully.

What amazes me is Minister McDowell's total silence on this affair given he was then the Attorney General and is now Minister for Justice. In 1993, Superintendent (ex) Kevin Lennon, and ex.. Detective Garda McMahon told Adrienne McGlinchey (a totally unstable person/an Alice in Wonderland type) to carry a lunch box containing bullets and shotgun cartridges across the border into Strabane. Lennon then got credit for Gardai Intelligence, when he phoned the RUC and told them where to locate the bullets and cartridges. I wonder will there be charges brought by the PSNI in relation to these two rogue Gardai? I beg the question are these Gardai out of control in Donegal?

A few months later Sherlock Holmes (Lennon) and Dr. Watson (McMahon) claimed they had found deadly fertiliser capable of being used in IRA bombs - in fact it could not even have been detonated. In 1994, under the instructions of Lennon, a massive Gardai search for bomb making materials, apparently to have been hidden by the IRA in Bridgend, Donegal. This had all been orchestrated by Lennon - Where was the Senior Gardai at Dublin HQ? Where were their fellow boys in blue who had not the courage to stand up and stop this corruption and nonense because surely they had the knowledge to know what was going on within An Gardai Siochana?

I would like to ask Mr. McDowell again - Is the word criminality selective for the chosen few in the Republican movement? To me Criminality in Donegal went on sadly within the Gardai and last nights break-in of Gardai Tina Foley's house scares me to thinking that these rogue Gardai are still out and about.

Minister McDowell, would you please get off the Obsession with Sinn Fein and run An Gardai Siochana with some accountability and respect for the innocent citizens of Ireland. Thats your job, and that is what tax-payers pay you to do Minister. I wait with deep interest, in the coming months of Detective Sgt. John White's statements in relation to the McBrearty affair. In last Sunday's paper, he said he would knock An Gardai Siochana to its foundations, in the series allegations he will make.

Kevin Walsh

by Dig deeply Sat Jan 29, 2005 18:16

If the whistleblowers are going to expose the wrongs of the gardai, where should they start?
They could start with the McBrearty case, or with the McCarthy shooting. But I believe they should start much further back. Start with the cases of those who allowed themselves to be recruited by British Intelligence in the early seventies, the Badger affair, the Crinion affair, and others. Then the Dublin & Monaghan Bombings - ALL the Dublin bombings not just the ones on 17th May 1974. Then the framing of Nicky Kelly and Branoch, and all the other cases during the whole Heavy Gang period.
That would be a start, I'm sure other people here have a longer and more comprehensive list of all the scandals in which the Gardai were involved.
Incidently, don't forget that the Irish fascist movement in the thirties, the Blueshirts, were formed and led by Eoin O'Duffy who had previously been the head of the Gardai.

by Barry Sat Jan 29, 2005 19:28

People should be aware that this crew is largely trained by, and works extremely closely with MI5.

How many cases have there been of Special Branch men reporting attempts by MI5 to recruit them as agents ? Are we to believe this has never happened / doesnt happen as a matter of routine ?

Who controls them ? It is abundantly clear in whose interests they work. In the case of Dublin Monaghan, and the Seamus Ludlow case, like many others they do not work in the interests of the Irish people.

They were filmed at the unveiling of the memorial to the DM victims photographing them, pointing and glaring at them as if they were subversives. At the commemoration in the pro-Cathedral they were outside jotting down numberplates, taking names and scowling at victims. Now we hear that the states own files into the biggest mass murder in its history have disappeared from their archives. That is a fucking absolute and total disgrace (not to mention a criminal act in itself) and its long passed the time that ordinary Irish people stood up and demanded an end to this sordid group of scum of the earth bastards.

Its not the 1950s any more. The days when a priest, a doctor and a guard were never to be questioned are long over. Its time to show a bit of maturity and demand better than this. Its a fucking disgrace that has gone on too long.

In a number of cases rather than trying to track down the murderers of innocent Irish citizens, they appear to be deliberately covering up for the killers, and actively hampering any investigation into the truth.

That is collusion in the murders of Irish citizens. Lets be very clear on that.

They are a menace to the ordinary people of this country and its time to get rid of them.

by Devil Dog Sat Jan 29, 2005 19:32

Nothing to do with their successes against your buddies in the RIRA then???

by Barry Sat Jan 29, 2005 19:41

As you are well aware, these (mass) murders occured prior to 1998. They are still being actively covered up. Such matters are obviously of little concern to yourself.

by Devil Dog Sat Jan 29, 2005 19:50

I'd be more than happy to see the perpetrators on a gallows...along with those behind La Mon, Miami Showband, Enniskillen or Warrington. I just disagree that the British Govt ordered them....or are you saying M15 organised them without cabinet approval?

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Feb 01, 2005 02:45

But the Gallows, is surely extreme.

The Peace process is about Democracy, that same word that people in Iraq took enormous risks to exercise the right to vote to attain this, only yesterday.

What is happening in Ireland? Is it about greed as distinct from a process of reconciliation.

I listened with interest to Ronit Lentin, Sociology, Trinity and Enda Kenny on Questions and Answers tonight. Their factual approach to civil liberties and their stark realisation of facts made me think - Why discrimination? Why War? Why not overcome issues that 'relate to money...ie robbery' and take account of the killings you mentioned.

Look at the commemoration of Auschwitz - why would we want to perpetuate such discrimination in a sectarian way.....surely, we all must make the effort to see our fellow people as equal. Yes, acknowledge the history of respective groups but let us look at the moral costs and try to establish the Island of Ireland as a peace prototype in the world order of establishing democracy.

I understand that corruption has to be routed out and for this reason I fully support Whistleblowers in their endeavours to be individuals and make the necessary revelations to prompt the rest of us.....TO ACT.

The electorate in Ireland have the capacity to vote ..... there is low turnout at elections and this has distinct disadvantages for democracy. Participation is vital. We need to be fully aware of the Asylum issue, in that we grasp and understand why people are in this country and to facilitate them with work as soon as possible.

We must register with web sites like Irish Civil Liberties and the Irish Penal Reform Trust to ensure government sections like the Departments for Equality Justice and Law Reform are working within the correct parameters.

I personal query the privatisation of clamping (certain areas in D4 are specifically targetted particularly 8.00 a.m. in the morning). I doubt the privatisation of speeding checks - who will be the moral conscience?......This is not a police state.

The mental hospital and its enclosure within prison grounds on the new site in Meath really makes me concerned (given as I would not pass the genetic test either in Hitler's Days or if DNA testing is made compulsory within the next few years). The 'Cullen/Leech' media outside consultancy and the inadequate records is another area that needs monitoring by the public.

It is my own personal belief that Dr. Kelly's suicide can largely be attributed to his humanity. Using the word humanity, I mean that he believed in what he was saying i.e. that there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction. The Tribunal held under Mr. Justice Hutton, inspite of its brevity, to me consolidated my belief that England's decision to join with American invasion breached the Rule of Law. Likewise, I believe that supplying arms, components, expertise and Shannon facilities are in breach also of the Geneva Convention and ought to be dealt with.

On the subject of corruption. There will always be an element e.g. Gardai, Armed Forces, Professions etc. What is vital is to address the issue. Recently the World Bank have carried out research and the findings are startling in regard to the loss of actual profits due to corruption.

There is a website worth looking up. I got the lead in the Phoenix magazine when it stated those involved (Garret Fitzgerald, Minister McDowell and others). The site is simply Transparency Ireland and the interesting part is that it is international and up and running a number of years.....

A thought and quote for Devil Dog......

South Africa opted for the 'Third Way' when they ended with Apartheid.

Desmond Tutu - No Future without Forgiveness
'To those who had commited gross violations of human rights, it offered amnesty in exchange for public disclosure of the truth about their crimes - and to the victims, it gave an unusual opportunity to be heard, as well as hope for reparations........The Commission was deeply rooted in the conviction that our relationship to others is central to our existence as human beings........

This is a book I truly appreciated......more so because I lived in Zimbabwe and saw the 'us and them' there.

Let there Peace, Justice, Equity, Comraderie.....war is only about pain and the futility that goes with it. The Peace Process has stumbled badly this time but there is a decade of good work........We do not have to forget but forgiveness is about peace, tranquility and acceptance.


Michelle Clarke

by Barry Thu Feb 03, 2005 03:50

There will be no peace in this country without a declaration of intent by the British government to cease its occupation of part of this nation.

Criticise true republicans all you want, untill your blue in the face. But it is the British govts occupation of the Irish nation which is at the root of this conflict. It is the dynamic which has always driven republican resistance and will continue to do so. The peace process does not address this, instead it seeks to legitimise British rule in Ireland. As such it is a hindrance to real peace, which is unattainable without the british govt declaring its intent to cease its occupation.

People who support this process will no doubt demand the physical destruction of those republicans who oppose British rule. They will even see their wishes granted, in the short term at least. Resistance WILL be crushed , given the imbalance in the opposing sides it is both evident and inevitable.

However the central, and real republican demand will always remain. A total end to British dominion in Ireland. That has always been the case, and always will be.

As such the situation in Ireland will always be like a room filled with petrol fumes. No matter how quiet it seems it will only take a spark at the right time to ignite it. While Britain maintains its occupation that will ALWAYS be the case. No peace without freedom from British rule.

by Jim McHugh Fri Apr 08, 2005 21:49

Does anybody think that people have the right to a trial by jury.Kevin lennon may in fact be an innocent party in the morris tribunal after all it appears thet he did after all clear the mcbreaty family.why should we accept judge morris' reason after all he did call ms mcglinneny only partially truthful.I find it strange how people in the media cowards call him names such as disgraced when he was put into a tribunal where those who framed the mcbreatys have legal aid and lennon has not.as for frank shortt if any reporter went down to inishown they would only have to ask the dogs on the street ot know his nightclub was full of drugs whilst he charged for ordinary tap water.so why not assume mr justice morris got it wrong and kevin lennon was innocent for he to may be framed just like frankie jnr said in a local paper and it is my opinion that this is very true so can a reporter for once hightlight for once that no jury was used and assume kevin lennon was innocent for evidence does point to him being framed just like sgt white to try and discredit them to protect others senior gardai involved in the mcbreaty affair