Compulsory ID and forced labour in Fallujah

by no comment Thu Dec 09, 2004 22:09

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album28&page=1

by ared dread Thu Dec 09, 2004 23:50

Echoes of Nazi Germany, it's appaling.

by Devil Dog Fri Dec 10, 2004 00:09

The Iraqis are the new Jews and the Marines are SS Einsatzgruppen. After machine gunning a few hundred thousand Iraqis, the Marines are going to build some extermination camps a la Birkenau...then again, herding them into the desert and nuking them might be quicker, no?

Another brilliant piece of insight on indymedia.

by Brian Vernon Fri Dec 10, 2004 00:20

After machine gunning a few hundred thousand Iraqis - 100,000+ Dead Iraqis. Done.

the Marines are going to build some extermination camps a la Birkenau - Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo. Done.

herding them into the desert and nuking them might be quicker - Fallujah. Done.

by kintama Fri Dec 10, 2004 00:57

the dog may be right that deaths in iraq at the hands of the occupiers may not yet equate to the death rate of jews at the hands of the nazis. he is however on a bit of dangerous ground given that a US demographer estimated that an absolute minimum of 158,00 Iraqis died during and in the aftermath of the first Gulf War when he was parading around Iraq with the type of armoury he refers to the odd time.
AT least 75,000 deaths involved women and children so he should perhaps not be so sniffy about the nazis

by Brian Vernon Fri Dec 10, 2004 05:34

They have illegally invaded another country on the pretext of a lie, ridden roughshod over the Geneva Convention. Murdered - not killed 100,000+ civilians and tortured hunderds if not thousands more.

Where is the UN when you need them. Safely tucked up in NYC appartments with high class hookers.

by righteous pragmatist Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:55

The 100,000 figure is absolutely ludicrous.
Iraqi Body Count- one of the most left wing anti-war web sites- only claims 14000 to 16000 civilian dead- of course they include dead insurgents as "civilians."
The figure on the web site is grossly exaggerated.

During the defeat of the insurgency in Fallujah the city was devastated - it needs to be cleaned up and repaired - so the population needs to be organised just like in Florida after the hurricanes.

Comparing the Americans to the Nazi SS is just off the wall psychosis.

In Abu Graib prison under Saddam Hussein's regime male, female and juvenile prisoners arrested on trumped up charges to fulfill quotas under the tender mercies of the guards were sodomized, hanged, electrocuted, dunked in vats of acid, flayed, whipped, burnt, shot and beheaded.
Guards were praised, promoted and rewarded for their brutality.

Under the American regime prisoners arrested for commiting heinous terrorist attacks were abused by a handful of guards who merely stripped them naked, piled them up into buttock mountains, forced them to wear women's underwear or pointed and laughed at their genitals- average fair in upmarket brothels. The guards have been court martialed and sentenced to long prison terms.

There is no comparison at all between both prison regimes or official reactions of government.

by fact Fri Dec 10, 2004 14:45

In a report released in October by the Lancet medical journal, days before the U.S. election that returned President Bush to power, a group of American scientists put civilian deaths at 100,000.

by Ray Fri Dec 10, 2004 15:01

The Iraq Body Count web site counts only those deaths which are reported in two western media sources. As such (and they're quite clear about this) they're producing a baseline figure only.

The study in the Lancet had a different methodology. It was a survey of randomly selected sites in Iraq (they excluded Fallujah from the final count because they felt it was an outlier), where Iraqis were asked about deaths in their immediate families in the pervious years. (A subset of those surveyed were asked for death certs as evidence). The fact that it was a survey, rather than a body by body count, means that the error margin was wide, but the survey method is standard in situations where a full count is impossible (epidemiology, for example).

(If you're not happy with a survey, blame the US government, which is the only group in Iraq capable of doing a more exact count, but which flat out refuses to count civilian deaths)

The Lancet study shows that, in the months since the invasion, there were 98,000 _excess_ civilian deaths. Not 98,000 civilian deaths, but 98,000 _more_ civilian deaths than there would have been if Saddam had remained in power (judging by the civilian death rate in the years immediately before the invasion).

The headline figure of 98,000 is not an exact estimate, its the centre of a confidence interval. That means that the number of excess deaths could be lower. But it is just as likely that the number is actually higher. What is _very_ unlikely is the possibility that fewer people died as a result of the invasion than would have died had the invasion not gone ahead.
Follow the link for a more detailed explanation of the survey, and rebuttals of the usual, badly-informed objections.

by Brian Vernon Sat Dec 11, 2004 05:35

Explain this away prag. Open your f*cking eyes soldier!

by eeekkkk Thu Dec 16, 2004 21:07

Must Listen Interview from Journalist just back from 'Embedded in Fallujah'
http://www.wnyc.com/stream/ram.py?file=/lopate/lopate112404a.ra

and this: "Heavy fighting is continuing in Fallujah. While the military claims to be in control of the situation, they are bombing areas of the city again with warplanes.

Sources in and around the city continue to state that the mujahideen are in control of large sections of the city as they’ve somehow managed to get more weapons in the city.

.........

t feels as though nothing is working right here. No gas, not much electricity, don’t drink the water, prices of everything going up. People dying everyday.

“This is the freedom,” as Iraqis say"
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000158.php#more

by bill Fri Dec 17, 2004 08:32

these pics are needed to fully expose the criminal, illegal war of u.s. imperialism for oil, against an innocent people, as innocent as the irish people were in their fully just war for independence of ireland. what is in common with guernica, stalingrad, and falluja is that all those cities were bombed to rubble, and both guernica, and falluja did not have any airforce to defend themselves. open slaughter all the way. well the axis powers looked mighty in the beginning from prescott bush selling them weapons of mass destruction, but the peoples of the world united and made them into bean curd within two decades. look to your artists now and like pablo picasso`s `Guernica` depict this fascist horror to the worlds people and make a picture and art work of down, down, down apartheid wall. artists have been known to turn the tide and these pics are capable of doing just that. workers and artists of the world unite! liberation fighters unite! stop the great satan(six-overkill) as ecological polluter, terrorist number one! dont forget folks, ecologically we can now re-tool the entire industrial revolution to wind, tidal, and solar power which doesnt pollute and the progressive arab peoples now know this. that is why american imperialism is wrong on all ways in this war. it backs corrupt oil addicted dictatorships throughout the region.

by Brian Vernon Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:43

Birth of Despotism
Dec 18, 2004
By Manuel Valenzuela

The rise to power of the Amerikan Nazis, and the subsequent dive into the cesspool of fascism the nation is now experiencing, was assured with the ascension to the White House of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney in November 2000. Through the well-conceived, methodical fraud committed against the American people, the Amerikan Nazis were now free to unleash their devastation upon the world. They were now free to release the demons of war on humanity, destroying innocent human life, tearing flesh apart, devastating environments, endangering freedoms and rights, eviscerating democracy and decimating entire peoples and nations.

Stealing the election through the disenfranchisement, intimidation, manipulation and blatant racism against tens of thousands of Florida blacks, the Amerikan Nazis regained the seat of power and immediately began preparations for their ideologically inspired, pre-ordained world agenda of imperial hegemony, pre-emptive offensive wars, natural resource control, geopolitical military allocation, proxy wars in defense of foreign nations, corporate profit and pillage, American treasure plunder and grip on absolute power.

With the inauguration of George W. Bush in January 2001 an amalgam of corrupt, warmongering, greed-addicted, delusional, unscrupulous and ideological criminals, fascists, religious fundamentalists, profit over people capitalists and Zionist neocons fused to create the most damaging cocktail of immoral human malfeasance since similar vermin rose to power in 1930’s Europe. Thus began the reign of the Amerikan Nazis, indiscriminately escalating the momentum of Earth’s descent into the dark abyss of self-annihilation and helping steer civilization closer towards nuclear midnight .

Conceived through fraud and deceit, developed through secrecy and intimidation, secured in lies and delusions, and birthed by the horrors of 9/11, thereafter cementing a national psychosis in the American mind that has yet to dissipate, the Amerikan Nazis have thrust upon the entirety of the planet a parallel universe not seen in 70 years. Since usurping power, the Amerikan Nazis have created nothing but negative energy, retarding the existing goodness in humankind and exposing the worst in the human condition.

Misery, suffering, death, destruction, economic frailty, violence, mass murder, war crimes, fear, hatred, racism, ignorance, xenophobia, homophobia, division, perpetual war, corruption, exploitation, the bankruptcy of the nation, the pillaging of our treasure, greed, indifference and immorality have flourished since the era of the Amerikan Nazi was birthed......

by redjade Sun Dec 19, 2004 14:08

Ok- what is the typical Iraqi Christmas wishlist (I won't list 'peace', 'security' and 'freedom' - Christmas miracles are exclusive to Charles Dickens), let's see:

1. 20 liters of gasoline
2. A cylinder of gas for cooking
3. Kerosene for the heaters
4. Those expensive blast-proof windows
5. Landmine detectors
6. Running water
7. Thuraya satellite phones (the mobile phone services are really, really bad of late)
8. Portable diesel generators (for the whole family to enjoy!)
9. Coleman rechargeable flashlight with extra batteries (you can never go wrong with a fancy flashlight)
10. Scented candles (it shows you care- but you're also practical)

When Santa delivers please make sure he is wearing a bullet-proof vest and helmet. He should also politely ring the doorbell or knock, as a more subtle entry might bring him face to face with an AK-47.

by Devil Dog Sun Dec 19, 2004 17:05

It's always good to see an IRA supporter in spasms of outrage about civilian deaths, irony is just like goldy and bronzey to the Shinners, isn't it?

And you're right - incarcerating dangerous terrorists is exactly the same as gassing a few million people, you're right to describe Gitmo as "auschwitz", they're exactly the same...then again, the Shinners are wont to compare RUC stations and the Maze to Auschwitz too - doesn't it get a bit old, parading the same outrageous and offensive comparisons all the time?

by kintama Mon Dec 20, 2004 22:43

it is the lack ofoutrage at the deliberate slaughter of civilians that is the mark of FRU/UFF supporters and those who justify military intervention in Iraq on what are now accepted as totally spurious grounds.
arguing that the murder and torture of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan cannot be compared to the scale of both carried out by the Nazis does not take away from the fact that the Dogs old mates are not averse to a spot of torture . the total control exercised by the US means that comparisons between the deaths in Abu Ghraib pre and post Saddam Hussein will probably never be able to be made. the ghost of Menegele hangs over Abu G and unfortunately like him the murderers and torturers are likely to see their days out in freedom in the Americas.

by Brian Vernon Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:49

Members of Skull and Bones include George H. W. Bush and his son George W. Bush, President of the United States, and Senator John Kerry (who ran for the office of President of the United States in the 2004 election). The wealth and success of its members past and present has enabled the establishment of the Russell Trust Association, which holds the society's real estate. It has been alleged that graduating members are given large amounts of money by the society, with conditions attached....

......

Skull and Bones are said within the mysticism community to be a subdivision of a larger society known as the 'Black Lodge', which is diametrically opposed to the Great White Lodge. Some have alleged that the society has ties to the Thule Society, which was involved in the foundation of Nazi Germany, as well as the Vril Society, also a society deeply involved in Nazism.

No link for doggy.

by devil dog Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:55

I wouldn't expect one - that's the great thing about this site, isn't it? You can post pretty much any crackpot statement or accusation you like, short of supporting the extreme right. Now the extreme left, that's another matter.

by kintama Tue Dec 21, 2004 22:44

acceptance at last from the dog that he has for some time now been spouting extreme right wing crackpot statements.
a job in the Bush administration or a crack at a Dail seat for the PDs now beckons.