US Presidential Debate Rules

by redjade Thu Sep 30, 2004 17:55

Top 10 Secrets They Don't Want You to Know About the Debates.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4052162

by poolfeedjunkieinwithdrawalshocker Thu Sep 30, 2004 18:15

Ie networks can only transmit what fox give them as it's live - expect shennanigans

I'd give an even money chance they did pool feed for shannon bush evening arrival too. I mean who else here could the DOFF trust?

by square eyes. - (I've gone & rigged up multiple screens in all the languages & feel like i've got my own oval office Thu Sep 30, 2004 18:19

all the anchormen are wetting themselves.

= this is it, guys, whoever wins tonight is our new president. Now it will be nail-biting at the end, and all your neighbourhood will be cramped in the satelite tv household, just like the old days, everyone pally and some flirtation going down, and don't forget the "irland douze points!"

what they're saying on the US satelites-

the "riser issue" has broken on homeland prime time TV, the Kerry team making it clear that Bush will not be allowed to use risers to make him look taller, the Cheney team are still trying to figure out can they use risers to make Kerry look shorter.
the president is touring victims of huricane Frances in florida, and almost fifty people are dead in Iraq where carbombers have just disrupted today's islamic feast day celebrations in the troubled fledgling democracy.
reports are that democrats are supporting a possible draft bill in Congress, and there is continuing fighting between armed palestinian muslims and better armed Israeli security forces.

what they're saying on the arabic satelites-
great coverage of muslim feast day celebrations at Karmala Iraq, with men dancing in the street, and only a few of those "you've had a better education than most so far, why don't you blow yourself up now and make the family proud" green yas'id banners.

BBC have done an interview with some man who used to help out in the international atomic energy watchdog thing that the UN used to trust with something or other.

The french are for the moment not even mentioning america, focusing on a new avantgarde rock group instead.

the italians just did an scoop interview with a stunning young model who waved at her daddy who just happened to be watching, and no she doesn't have a boyfriend yet, but giggle giggle time for studies and stuff.

by redjade Thu Sep 30, 2004 20:32

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/30/132813/658

by Tom - dyslexics untie Thu Sep 30, 2004 22:50 olearys at oceanfree dot net

If the entire election in 2000 could be fixed, imagine how easy it is to fix a debate (for lack of a better word). 'tis a shame though that the public won't get a chance to witness a real debate on real issues.

I am certain though that we'll at least have more entries for the "Bushisms" list at the end of the night.

Fox News having any role in the feed is a joke. I sent in the following to them recently...hmmm, I wonder why it wasn't aired?

-----

Are you airing these today? Just in case you didn't get it the first time...

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom
To: friends@foxnews.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:15 AM
Subject: Dan Rather than George?



In response to your question: Does Dan Rather owe President Bush an apology; I would say that he does and that the President, in turn, owes the American public, the UN and our allies an apology as well for the same reason.

Remember that there was a very similar situation several months ago prior to our invasion of Iraq. Didn't the President receive erroneous information about the existence of nuclear weapons in Iraq, and subsequently use that information as justification publicly, not only to the people of our country, but to the UN and our allies overseas as the predominant reason to invade? It surprises me that so much coverage has been given to the reporting of some old documents (or perhaps new if they were forged) while there has been so little uproar about the similar mistake that actually caused the men and women of our military service to sacrifice their lives.

If you weigh the consequences of the two mistakes in "intelligence/research reports", it seems to me that the government's is much more costly than that of CBS...

Kind Regards

Tom

by Spieling Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:58

Stop being offensive toward dyslexics. It is a sign of an ignorant person.

by redjade Fri Oct 01, 2004 13:19

Bush Supporters Misread Many of His Foreign Policy Positions
- Kerry Supporters Largely Accurate
- Swing Voters Also Misread Bush, But Not Kerry
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_9_29_04.html

Majorities of Bush supporters incorrectly assumed that Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (84%), and the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the International Criminal Court (66%), the treaty banning land mines (72%), and the Kyoto Treaty on global warming (51%). They were divided between those who knew that Bush favors building a new missile defense system now (44%) and those who incorrectly believe he wishes to do more research until its capabilities are proven (41%). However, majorities were correct that Bush favors increased defense spending (57%) and wants the US, not the UN, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (70%).

Kerry supporters were much more accurate in assessing their candidate’s positions on all these issues. Majorities knew that Kerry favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (90%); the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (77%); the International Criminal Court (59%); the land mines treaty (79%); and the Kyoto Treaty on climate change (74%). They also knew that he favors continuing research on missile defense without deploying a system now (68%), and wants the UN, not the US, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (80%). A plurality of 43% was correct that Kerry favors keeping defense spending the same, with 35% assuming he wants to cut it and 18% to expand it.

by votenader Fri Oct 01, 2004 13:33

The Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) which organises the debtaes is completely controlled by the 2 big capitalist parties and big business.

CPD was founded by the two major parties, the CPD has been co-chaired by the two former DNC and RNC chairmen since its foundation. Nine of eleven CPD directors are prominent Republicans and Democrats. No third-party member is a CPD director.

The debtae last night was a farce. Both candidates have the same fundamental position on Iraq. Kerry stated that he would increase troop numbers in Iraq and 'would hunt down and kill terrorists anywhere in the world'. Ralph Nader is the only major candidate in the election that opposes the war in Iraq and calls for withdrawal of troops yet he was deliberatly excluded from the debate on foreign policy!

by iosaf Fri Oct 01, 2004 13:47

though it is a little too soon for us all to be running around trumpeting the victory of the Lurch over the Wookie, it's something we naturally do living in different time zones.

(to trumpet - verb. can be positive or negative. little Mary trumpeted her maths test results. = little Mary was very proud of herself. or little Mary trumpeted the maths test. = little Mary was most disparaging of the maths test.)

up to you. Maths is one of the word which differs across the time zones. Mathematics may look plural but is singular, just like physics and other clever clogs subjects for the Junior Cert. Our american cousins abbreviate it as "math". Thus little american mary would trumpet her math test result.

It's little differences like that, can go a long way in understanding the way our cousins get things so fist up arse, as the once popular but almost forgotten motto of the Tipperary south riding hand ball team puts it.

But naturally today, serious analysts and half the world's blogosphere are putting the Lurch v. Wookie debate through the mill, teasing those statements for the truth.

And we are no different.

by redjade Fri Oct 01, 2004 14:06

''... one of the notable things in the debate was that President Bush didn't seem to have any really clear idea what his administration's North Korea policy even is''

. . . . .

'' "The A.Q. Khan network has been brought to justice," President Bush said in the debate tonight.

Brought to justice? Really?

The White House went along with a deal in which Khan was immediately pardoned after making a perfunctory apology for spreading nuclear weapons technology all over the globe.

I guess it's really not about law enforcement.''

. . . . .

''Every president gets tucked away into a cocoon to some degree. But President Bush does notoriously few press conferences or serious interviews. His townhall meetings are screened so that only supporters show up. And, of course, he hasn't debated anyone since almost exactly four years ago.

Frankly, I think it showed. It irked him to have to stand there and be criticized and not be able to repeat his talking points without contradiction.''

....

''To put it bluntly, the Bush campaign has created an image of Kerry as a weak and indecisive man, someone that -- whatever you think of President Bush -- just can't be trusted to keep the country safe in these dangerous times.

Often they've made him into an object of contempt.

Whatever else you can say about this debate, though, whatever you think of his policies, I don't think that's how Kerry came off. I think he came off as forceful and direct. And I suspect that most people who were at all genuinely undecided came away from the 90 minutes with that impression.

If President Bush's current lead is built not upon confidence in him or his policies but in a simple belief that Kerry isn't solid enough to be president, then I think this performance could help Kerry a good deal.''

All quotes from Joshua Marshall - excellent political analyst, imho - read his blog at: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com

Above quotes from:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_09_26.php#003542

by redjade Fri Oct 01, 2004 14:28

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/001553.html

by redjade Fri Oct 01, 2004 14:41

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,134152,00.html

by iosaf Fri Oct 01, 2004 15:38

NYC indypendent (their print newspaper) did a pre-debate special on presidential things-

read their thoughts at http://nyc.indymedia.org/feature/display/125154/index.php

you can see the immediate reaction of NYC.imc with a lot of comments at bottom of page at-
http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/125250/index.php

This is also where (if you have real player)
you can watch the debate right there on your own _screen_.

& here are some stats (if you can't be bothered going to NYC imc)

WORDS AVERAGE WORD SIZE
BUSH 6193 words spoken
an average of 5.477 characters long each word.
KERRY 7298 words spoken
an average og 5.438 characters long each word.

[and the comment]
Clearly, Kerry pauses less when he speaks because there was, for the most part, equal time given to both candidates. The difference in word size is negligible, though Bush did use ever so slighty larger words - which is a litte suprising because Kerry is known to be more of an intellectual.

FYI - these stats were generated by taking a transcript of the debate, seperating each persons comments into separate files, then running a Unix command 'wc -w filename' to get the word count, and then 'wc -c' to get the character count.

***********************************************

Yes indeed, the Wookie used on average words of 0.039 characters longer than the Lurch. What lessons can we learn from this?
That not only is the presidency decided on telly, but also on a scrabble score which penalises trislyabic combinations.
Grunt- grunt- grunt why even the word president is a long one.

I tried to upload a picture of Nadar but it was too wide. Just coz most people don't know what he looks like. Not like it matters.

by redjade Sat Oct 02, 2004 17:57

"As a result of the American military," President Bush declared last week, "the Taliban is no longer in existence."

It's unclear whether Mr. Bush misspoke, or whether he really is that clueless. But his claim was in keeping with his re-election strategy, demonstrated once again in last night's debate: a president who has done immense damage to America's position in the world hopes to brazen it out by claiming that failure is success.

[....]

Let's talk for a minute about Afghanistan, which administration officials tout as a success story. They rely on the public's ignorance: voters, they believe, don't know that even though the United States promised to provide Afghanistan with both security and aid during its transition to democracy, it broke those promises. It has allowed the country to slide back into warlordism - and allowed the Taliban to make a comeback.

These days, Mr. Bush and other administration officials often talk about the 10.5 million Afghans who have registered to vote in this month's election, citing the figure as proof that democracy is making strides after all. They count on the public not to know, and on reporters not to mention, that the number of people registered considerably exceeds all estimates of the eligible population. What they call evidence of democracy on the march is actually evidence of large-scale electoral fraud

by redjade Sat Oct 02, 2004 19:17

8.3MB Quicktime Video
http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/thedebate.html

by Tom Sat Oct 02, 2004 19:36 olearys at oceanfree dot net

Redjade...

You have your finger on the pulse of the what's going on. I only hope that there is a sufficient number of others, come November, who are as alert to the persuasive propaganda that has been spewed over the last 4 years.

by redjade Sun Oct 03, 2004 15:21

''Its Hard Work'' - Bush
http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/hardwork2.html
1.3 MB Quicktime Video

by redjade Sun Oct 03, 2004 15:41

http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/rewind.html
900K Quicktime Video

by redjade Sun Oct 03, 2004 16:40

http://www.oliverwillis.com/stuff/gopmashup.mov
5.1MB Quicktime

by more words Sun Oct 03, 2004 19:17

Bush

free iraq (14), hard work (13), wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time (13), wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place (12), north korea (10), kim jong il (10), my opponent (9), american people (8), same intelligence (8), prime minister allawi (8), best way (7), free afghanistan (7), world a more peaceful place (7), mixed messages (7), iraqi citizens (6), al qaida (6), weapons of mass destruction (6), dynamics on the ground (6), breach on the agreement (6), end of this year (6), grave threat (6), matter of fact (5), cannot lead (5), grand diversion (5), wrong signals (5)


Kerry

saddam hussein (14), north korea (14), nuclear weapons (10), weapons of mass destruction (9), osama bin (9), united nations (9), war as a last resort (9), american people (8), 90 percent of the casualties (7), nuclear proliferation (7), remedies of the united nations (7), 90 percent of the costs (7), united states of america (7), homeland security (7), mountains of tora bora (6), 10 active duty divisions (6), different set of convictions (6), four years (6), president bush (6), president of south korea (6), strong alliances (6), two years (5), secretary of state (5), tax cut (5), bilateral talks (5)

by redjade Mon Oct 04, 2004 13:08

http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/foxfacts.html
Quicktime Video 1.2MB

by redjade Mon Oct 04, 2004 19:03

Unlike his boss, Vice President Dick Cheney is no squish ball. He's not Ivy League, didn't fool around with Skull and Bones, and didn't depend on his father to set him up in business. When veep candidate John Edwards takes Cheney on in a debate Tuesday night, he'll be in a very different kind of fight from the one John Kerry so easily handled against President Bush last week.

Cheney is the most savvy politician in the Republican Party, a survivor who has guided both Bush presidents, father and son. He is the party's best speaker, with perfect timing, often outperforming Bob Dole. He is gracious, gentlemanly in an old-school way and very personable. While Bush smirks, Cheney 's flat assertions are accompanied by just the hint of a wink. Half the time you can't tell whether he means what he says. Unlike Bush he doesn't "tear up" and sniffle. He's not likely to get caught in a corner blathering on about God. You can't help but like him.

[....]

Edwards vs. Cheney should be much different. Edwards is not only a shrewd trial lawyer, but a modern populist. His clients are ordinary little people screwed by the system. He speaks for them. In debating Cheney, this smooth-talking Luke Skywalker faces the unrepentant Darth Vader. Edwards doubtless will work at teasing out Cheney's latent meanness, hoping the vice president turns himself into laughable caricature.

by redjade Mon Oct 04, 2004 19:15

There is another fundamental choice in this election. My friends, we are hearing the same things you are hearing. What they did in Florida in 2000, they are in the process of doing in battleground states all across this country this year. Let me make one thing clear: We're not going to stand by and allow African American votes to go uncounted in this election. We're not going to stand by and allow acts of voter suppression.

They are trying to take your vote away because they know what we know -- without you we cannot prevail.

- John Kerry

by redjade Mon Oct 04, 2004 19:22

Florida
The state that started it all in 2000 is no stranger to controversy this election. In July, The Miami Herald revealed that the state issued faulty felon purge lists containing the names of 48,000 people it said were ineligible to vote. Among these were 2,100 who actually were eligible voters. Many of these people were African American Democrats. The list of 48,000 also contained only sixty-one Hispanic names. (Because of Florida's large Cuban population, the Hispanic vote in Florida is predominantly Republican. The Florida African American vote, on the other hand, tends to be heavily Democratic.)

In mid-August, New York Times columnist Bob Herbert revealed that the state was investigating get-out-the-vote drives among blacks in Orlando by sending armed police officers into the homes of citizens who had filed absentee ballots. Most of these citizens were African American, and many were elderly.

. . .

Michigan
Michigan is the state that Jon Greenbaum, director of the Voting Rights Project for the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, mentions as a potential trouble spot. On July 16, the Detroit Free Press quoted John Pappageorge, a Republican state representative from Troy, Michigan, who said, "If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election cycle." Detroit is 83 percent African American. Pappageorge later told the Associated Press that he was not advocating suppression of the black vote but that "you get it [the Detroit vote] down with a good message."

longer article at...
http://www.progressive.org/oct04/cusac1004.html

by Chekov Mon Oct 04, 2004 19:23

"You can't help but like him."

I can't help but shiver when I see the bastard. Cheney is the best argument against atheism that I've ever come across - he's evil.

by redjade Mon Oct 04, 2004 19:26

'People For the American Way' Report

In every national American election since Reconstruction, every election since the Voting Rights Act passed in 1965, voters – particularly African American voters and other minorities – have faced calculated and determined efforts at intimidation and suppression. The bloody days of violence and retribution following the Civil War and Reconstruction are gone. The poll taxes, literacy tests and physical violence of the Jim Crow era have disappeared. Today, more subtle, cynical and creative tactics have taken their place.

[....]

Here are a few examples of recent incidents in which groups of voters have been singled out on the basis of race.

Download the 'People For the American Way' report at
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/dfiles/file_462.pdf

Read more at

by redjade Mon Oct 04, 2004 19:50

How many members of the Bush Administration are needed to change a light bulb?

The Answer is TEN:

1. one to deny that the light bulb needs to be changed,
2. one to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be changed,
3. one to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb,
4. one to tell the nations of the world that they are either for changing the light bulb or for darkness,
5. one to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Haliburton for the new light bulb,
6. one to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor, standing on a step ladder under the banner "e; Lightbulb Change Accomplished,
7. one administration insider to resign and write a book documenting in detail how Bush was literally in the dark,
8. one to viciously smear #7,
9. one surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had a strong light-bulb-changing policy all along,
10. and finally one to confuse Americans about the difference between screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.

by redjade Mon Oct 04, 2004 20:34

Bush mentioned Poland twice in the most recent debate:

- - -
 My opponent says we didn't have any allies in this war. What's he say to Tony Blair? What's he say to Alexander Kwasniewski of Poland? 
[....]
Well, actually, he forgot Poland. And now there's 30 nations involved, standing side by side with our American troops. And I honor their sacrifices. And I don't appreciate it when candidate for president denigrates the contributions of these brave soldiers. 

You cannot lead the world if you do not honor the contributions of those who are with us. He called them coerced and the bribed. That's not how you bring people together.

Our coalition is strong. It will remain strong, so long as I'm the president.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_0930.html
- - -

Which inspired this website http://www.youforgotpoland.com/

Unfortunately for Bush, he will not be able to use Poland in the next debate:

POLAND TO QUIT IRAQ
Polish troops will start to withdraw from Iraq in the New Year and all will be out by the end of 2005, the country's president has promised.   

Poland is the fourth-largest contributor of troops to the coalition in Iraq - with 2,500 - and there is strong opposition at home to the deployment.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13231079,00.html

by http://p214.ezboard.com/bProIsraelforum - http://p214.ezboard.com/bProIsraelforum Mon Oct 04, 2004 23:32

New board For an Informed doiscussion of The Israel-Arab conflict