Second Irish Social Forum

by Eilis - none Fri Aug 27, 2004 19:15

This is typical of Dublin-centric Left in Ireland - for those of us living outside of Dublin, we have to choose between the Irish Social Forum or the European one as they are on consecutive weekends. Many, if not most, people cannot afford to go away two weekends in a row. For those of us with kids (for the women with kids, that is!) the additional costs and hassle of organising childcare make it even more difficult.

by seedot Sat Aug 28, 2004 14:34

Eilis, this has got to be the most pointless post on Indymedia in a while. The Dublin based group organising the Dublin located social forum are criticised for being Dublin-centric - not because of where the social forum is going to be but rather because it is the weekend before another event in London. Well the w/end after that the GG is in Belfast, the w/end before the ISF UCD is not available because there is an Irish Education Forum there, the same w/end as the ISF the SIPTU Regional conference is on in Dublin and my uncles birthday happens right in the middle of the ESF. But does that bastard Ken Livingstone care? No, he's too london - centric.

But the bit that really annoyed me
"For those of us with kids (for the women with kids, that is!) " blah blah childcare. Now this is really annoying - as a man with kids (well child actually) its great that childcare is not an issue since I always just dump my daughter with the lads down the pub when I want to go to something. As long as women appropriate childcare as an issue 1) it will remain, unfairly, a womens issue 2) it will not be solved.

And to top it all off - at the ISF last year childcare was provided... but nobody availed of it. Despite this, a cursory glance at the minutes will see the budget is still being set aside to provide childcare.

This won't help you though - because it will be in Dublin.

And it will clash with the All Ireland football final which happens just two weeks before as many culchies come to the North Inner city when we let them visit Croke Park - cancel all events in October I say, and crush the Dublin mindset.

by Fergal Mon Aug 30, 2004 13:19

How is it that Eilish is free to blather her sexist shite here on Indymedia. As a father, I have a pain in my arse listening to some women going on as if we have no interest or responsibility for our children, as if we never have to arrange childcare or stay at home and miss events that we would otherwise like to attend.
Give us a break, quit whinging, childcare is an issue for all of us.

by Eilis Mon Aug 30, 2004 15:43

Lads, let me have your addresses and I'll give them to the father of my kids so you can lecture him instead of me. He has to be badgered to take them just once or twice a year as I DO take kids needing their father seriously. He is the one who doesn't. He has let them down totally this summer, not even taken them for a weekend - so let's get it clear about how the sexism operates for 90% of women.

As to 'what's wrong with Dublin organising a Dublin Social Forum?' - there's nothing wrong with it, but it is the IRISH Social Forum they are organising i.e. supposed to be for the whole of Ireland.

by Fergal Mon Aug 30, 2004 17:17

Our personal experiences inform and influence all our opinions and positions, what i object to is the fact that you take your own bad experience and then paint all men with the same brush because of it. I'm sure there was no great offence intended, but thats just the point, we now have a culture where casual sexism towards men is endemic - well let me tell you its just as unacceptable as sexism towards women. I have two small kids and i dont want them growing up in a world where they will be labelled as selfish, uncaring, insensitive, violent, incapable of basic domestic chores, lazy, or stupid, just because they are boys - but that is the way things seem to be going, and its not coming from neo-conservatives or right wingers, it seems to be coming from people who think of themselves as progressive and committed to equality!

by Eilis Mon Aug 30, 2004 19:43

OK. I apologise for letting my own frustration come out in my original post and blame men generally rather than one man and/or society for the fact that my kids may as well not have a father. Two of my children are boys. I am trying to bring them up differently, to see women as their equals and housework as somethign that both sexes have to do. As you can imagine, though, it is hard to make them see that childcare is something men do as well as women since they have no experience of anyone but women giving them care [i.e. me, my sisters, mother and friends]

Also, I do not think that there is no difference between sexist attitudes towards men and towards women. For example, a woman I know walked out on her husband leaving him to look after their three children. You'd have thought she killed all three of them by people's reaction. Yet men walk out all the time and it is seen as relatively normal.

Maybe when there are more men like you around, there will be fewer women like me - bitter and pretty anti-man!

by erm - none Tue Aug 31, 2004 19:01

Surely that's the first step. Ask them!
And if it isn't then why not?
That's my tuppence!

http://www.IrishSocialForum.org

by Info finder Fri Sep 17, 2004 19:58

The Irish Social Forum website is way out of date. There is no mention of this and the events section in it refers to last year.

I have also checked the Indymedia events for the dates above and again nothing.

????