Politician embarrasses herself in desperate attempt to gather "yoof" vote.

by Denise Fri Jun 11, 2004 16:12

All of you missed the fact that on the back of Ivana's card it says "vote with your eyes open." eg "kiss with your eyes shut, vote with your eyes open"? oh dear, not a very successful campaign card then!!

by no-one in particular Fri May 28, 2004 00:08

Ivana Bacik was a President of Trinity College Dublin (TCD) Students' Union who resigned in disgrace in 1990. Bacik secretly broke the mandate given to her for voting for candidates at a Union of Students in Ireland conference. However, despite 13 TCD reps being mandated to vote for one candidate, that candidate only received 12 votes. An investigation started leading to Bacik's resignation.

Forget her patronising postcards. What about her honesty? And how can someone be acceptable to Labour if they broke trust in this fashion? This is not secret information. It was in all the papers at the time.

by angryliberal - labour youth+others,etc. Thu May 27, 2004 11:39

Ms.Bacik has done legal aid for people accussed of membership of the IRA,has worked hard since becoming a lawyer for the dissolution of the special criminal court and the repeal of the emergency,extended detentions and arbitrary arrests under anti-terrorism legislation.Mary Lou was in Fianna Fail.I think ivana inadvertently has more claims to a republican vote than mary lou,but then i'm only intentionally annoying sinn fein supporters.
I think ivana will get a far bigger chunk of middle class votes and mary lou of working class votes,but good luck sinn fein getting transfers from liberal bacik types,they would vote greens,sp and possibly if particularly bitter,gay mithcell first.
Anyone see mary lou on prime time?Class.
Pub pictures?Who cares.

by Brian O'Flynn Wed May 26, 2004 22:39

Why is the only other person mentioned here Frank Milling? Who has it in for him? What's known abour him (and spare me "he a nazi" stuff) What do we know about him?

by observer Tue May 25, 2004 18:01

Haw haw. Your're so droll.

As I've said before, SF have members who were in lots of different parties: FF, Labour, SDLP, Socialist Party, Communist Party, even the odd FGer.


What's so strange about that? As a party grows so will it's membership, and so will the number of people that will be attracted to it from other parties.

If the SP or any other micro group were recruiting likewise it would be heralded as the dawn of the proletarian revolution.

by Leftie Tue May 25, 2004 17:42

Ivana must have had a goo at this thread:

"A number of candidates who look likely to win seats in the European Parliament have been called upon to declare whether they will take up their positions permanently.

Labour candidate, Ms Ivana Bacik today said the European Parliament cannot be "a half-way house for politicians who want an each-way bet on national or European politics".

Ms Bacik today expressed concern that Mr Mitchell, speaking to The Irish Times today, failed to clearly indicate he would see out a five-year term, if elected to Strasbourg.

"Every Oireachtas member standing for the European Parliament should state their position categorically.

"It's time that established politicians who serve in the Dáil or Seanad come clean and tell voters where they stand on this fundamental issue of political representation.""

by observer Tue May 25, 2004 12:45

Sure that's like saying that Joe Higgins sounds like a FF TF from Kerry! What does it mean? That ML and Bacik have middle class accents? Should they affect north side accents?

I don't think you will find too many FG types from Donnybrook voting for ML, whatever about Bacik and the reason will be political.

by Archivist Tue May 25, 2004 12:44

"you can't escape the fact that ML looks and sounds like she could be a Fine Gaeler from Donnybrook just as much as Ivana does."

More like a FFer from Castleknock. After all she was a party member of their's out there. Didn't get a nomination, you see.

by Badman Tue May 25, 2004 12:37

MLM and IB are obviously going after their own party vote which is a bit different, but not as different as you would make out. The SF vote is concentrated more in Working class areas, the LP is stronger in middle class areas. However, beyond their party vote, they are both going after the "Mary Robinson" vote. In meaningless elections such as European and Presidential elections, the electorate has a tendency to vote for personalities rather than parties. The prefered personalities being young, liberal women and both candidates are definitely going after this vote.

However much you want to harp on about SF's working class credentials, you can't escape the fact that ML looks and sounds like she could be a Fine Gaeler from Donnybrook just as much as Ivana does.

by observer Tue May 25, 2004 10:25

You're not very clued in to the old elections Badman are you?

There are probably NO candidates in Dublin competing less for the same vote than ML and Bacik.

Bacik's vote will be predominantly middle class and southside from constituencies where SF is weak. ML will be hoping to get transfers obviously when Bacik is eliminated on 7 or 8% but is certainly not in competition no more than Arsenal and Portsmouth to win the Premeirship.

by f - sp (pc) Tue May 25, 2004 01:27

Dermot if you are opposed to bin tax why are you campaigning in these elections for a party that is standing on a programme for a 'fairer' bin tax? The Labour Party are in favour of a tag and pay by weight system. This on the Labour literature I recieved in my door today. The tag and pay by weight etc is being used to make it easier for the council to smash resistence to non collection. The bin tax when implemented will be the first step in privitising the service, which will inevitably lead to further environmental problems, a poorer service and an attack on working conditions for the bin men.

Dermot, you're a decent activist, I presume you don't support these policies. I really can't see how you can support fully the Labour Party programme. Could you please outline exactly what you are doing to oppose these rightwing policies that are held by the Labour Party and explain to me why you are backing the Labour Party in opposition to decent working class and anti bin tax activists who are standing in these elections?

by Dermot L - Labour Youth Mon May 24, 2004 18:38

I have read it. And indeed it is far more commendable than a number of the anonymous cowards - some of whom I'd guess would have similar IP addresses to my own.

I admire and respect those involved in the anti-bin tax campaigns across the city. My only regret is that I was too involved in student activism at the time to partake in the various actions.

On most occasions when posts are made under "sp" they are fair and decent. It's the anonymous use of indymedia to bicker that I'd have a problem with.

by The Kidz Mon May 24, 2004 18:35

I am sorry to disappoint Phil and Badman but I am a supporter of the Socialist Party, not that the article had anything much to do with the SP.

I posted the light-hearted article above not for any particularly "political" reason, just because I was handed one of Bacik's cards in the pub and it really pissed me off. The whole thing just dripped with condescension towards young people.

I was just as irritated by Royston Brady's leaflets and the two together tipped me far enough over the edge to have a little rant about it. I really, really hate seeing politicians trying desperately to be "down with the kids".

It makes me cringe and it also makes me want to shout "No! You fucking idiot! Do you have no self-respect at all?" at them.

The point I was making wasn't meant to be taken all that seriously, I just wanted to take a pot shot at that kind of stupidity.

by Badman Mon May 24, 2004 17:51

Follow the link below for an example of the SP's attacks on the LP. As you will see it is more open, more political, more sloganistic and less sophisticated and effective than the above.

Oh don't you just luuuv these elections! It's so exciting to watch the cut and thrust of real politics. It's so dignified and elevated.

by Badman Mon May 24, 2004 17:22

Keen indywatchers will notice a few things about the article that lead to a suspicion that it does not come from the SP.

1. It is very well, even professionally, written.

2. It does not contain any slogans.

3. It is pitched at 'the thinking man in the street'.

4. It is clearly an electorally inspired attack on Ivana.

5. The attack on the grey "Former Stalinist" De Rossa

All of the above lead me to believe that the SF PR department are up to their old tricks. Ivana and Mary Lou have much in common and are going after the same vote. By contrast Joe Higgins's campaign is not in direct competition with Ivana. I'd imagine the SP will be going after the labour party and their history in the bin tax campaign etc, rather than targetting Ivana's personality. For SF, on the other hand, personal attacks on Ivana make a lot of sense.

The puppies are irritating but not sophisticated. They can't mention the LP without slipping into groupspeak "The LP is not a working class party...."

by Phil M - SP (personal cap.) Mon May 24, 2004 17:07

The first and most important is that this article has nothing to do with the Socialist Party. I saw the card and found it repulsive, but it didn't fundamentally change my view of Bacik, a pleasant and well-meaning liberal. This is a jokey thread making a serious point about condescending political adverts and while I mostly agree with it, it isn't that big a deal.

If you want to do something useful, you would be better off advising Bacik to avoid trying so crassly to appear to be "down with the kids" and to instead argue for her policies. Certainly doing so would be more likely to help the Bacik campaign than complaining that other people are laughing at her silly stunt.

You wouldn't be whining so bitterly (or blaming the nasty old Socialist Party) if people here had restricted themselves to laughing at Royston Brady's equally crass photographs.

by Dermot L - Labour Youth Mon May 24, 2004 16:51

Ridiculous secterianism on here from the SP, as always. I have many friends from that party, genuinely lovely people, but when on Indymedia its all low digs and immaturity, the dregs of schoolyard politics.

Bacik is a clearly left-wing candidate, she doesn't hide from words like socialist or liberal and has been a thorn in the establishment side for some years through the media. She has consistently opposed deportations, McDowell's referendum, is very much anti-privatisation, involved in the lower case anti-war movement, and in general has been a progressive professor, media commentator and, now, election candidate.

No-one expects the SP or other left wing parties, or anarchists or independents, to come out singing Bacik's praises. That's the very nature of electoral politics. What you might hope of those on the left is to stay away from the personality bickering of right-wing politics and to debate with respect for their peers. I'll gladly discuss the politics of Joe Higgins, RBB and whoever else without resorting to trolling and the politics of the persona. I won't look at one of their electoral tactics and draw conclusions on that sole basis. I won't automatically dismiss a person solely on the basis that they are not in the same party as me. More fool me!!!

by Marcos Mon May 24, 2004 15:58

Public-Private Partnerships are a jargon term for "privatisation". If you think that having public services signed over to profiteers is a good thing, then I suppose there is nothing wrong with them at all.

If you think that public services should be run as services then you are likely to have a different view.

The issue of coalition governments is something of a throwback. The left in the Labour Party, and the left more generally, used to oppose the idea of entering into government with the right wing parties as it would inevitably lead to the Labour Party discrediting itself by becoming the friendly "left" face on business as usual government.

That argument was over a long time ago and the left were defeated. There is no longer a substantial left wing in the Labour Party and the Labour Party's own policies are for business as usual so the issue just doesn't arise.

A more likely context for the subject to come up now is in the Green Party or Sinn Fein. Both parties will have some members who will be opposed to playing the role of mud-guard for the right wing parties. However those members are likely to be isolated and defeated very quickly when the opportunity to be a minority partner in government arises.

by Ray Mon May 24, 2004 15:18

Because the name 'Joe Higgins' has a certain brand-name recognition to it, more than the name 'the Socialist Party'. A lot of people vote for Higgins because they think he's a hard worker, on their side, etc, etc, without knowing much about the policies of the SP. On the other hand, the Labour Party and Fianna Fail are better known, and have more recognition, than Ivana Bacik or Eoin Ryan.
So, it wouldn't make much sense for Labour to run Ivana, for example, and then (if she won) give her seat to somebody else. But it would make a lot of sense for the SP to do that. I'm not saying they will - they won't get the chance - just that it would make sense for them.

by James Gaffney Mon May 24, 2004 15:18

What's wrong with public-private partnerships and coalition governments? Isn't any other decision-making process going to be more undemocratic than these processes, whatever their flaws?

I refuse to make this comment free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the internet and elsewhere.

by Finglas Flyer Mon May 24, 2004 15:18

Our local rag informs us than no less than Brendan O Carroll launched the campaign of Labour hopefull Mary 'The Consultant' Murphy in Finglas. The same Brendan who has launched Proinsias 'Remember Finglas?' De Rossa previous election campaigns. Heres the real joke though: Mary's campaign has staggered badly: She has so few Finglas people working for her that she has to get nice Poverty Industry types and full timers from the Fingal Centre for the Unemployed to work for her. There isn't even an active Labour branch in Finglas and De Rossa is a byword for selling out amongst Finglas people so poor Mary's starting from a low base.

Watch this space to see how Mary's transformation from radical critic of social partnership to Rabbitte groupey pays off or otherwise. Don't be surprised if she's beaten by both SF candidates and maybe even the ex-stickie O Neill.

by Dublin Voter Mon May 24, 2004 14:53

There is a list of replacements of MEPs should the elected MEP resign, die or otherwise be permanently incapacitated. The SP list (and list of all other parties and independents) is available to all voters on the ballot paper. Maybe they're not running another in the Euro election as they intend Joe to take the MEP seat and another person to run for the Dáil seat. I'm sure it's not a big conspiracy! All this is a problem when the Irish system elects individuals and not parties as in other countries.

Why is no-one on Indymedia asking about Eoin Ryan TD? or what about Ivana Bacik's job? What about Brendan Price? What will Eoin Dubsky do if elected? etc. All the candidates will have to make adjustments to their job situation if they are elected!

by Ray McInerney Mon May 24, 2004 14:38

Will people be voting for personalities or for socialist ideas?

by Confused Mon May 24, 2004 14:31

"The MEP seat (or TD seat!) will more than likely go to someone else."

So why not run someone else?

by Sk8ter Boi Mon May 24, 2004 14:11

Can we expect to see Bacik campaigning around Temple Bar on a skateboard? How about being introduced by a dj at a big nightclub?

by SP member Mon May 24, 2004 14:03

We are running a serious campaign for Joe Higgins in the Euro elections. We're canvassing thousands of houses, we're putting out leaflets into thousands of homes in Dublin (inside and outside local election wards we're standing in), and we also have posters up around Dublin.

If Joe is elected as an MEP he will not 'double job'. The MEP seat (or TD seat!) will more than likely go to someone else. All the candidates for election have jobs! Ivana Bacik is a Professor, Eoin Ryan a TD, Royston Brady a councillor, etc. etc. To say you shouldn't vote for someone 'cause they "have a job" is ridiculous!

Joe Higgins is standing against the privatisation agenda of the EU, standing for a Europe based on working class solidarity and ownership of the economy. Also featuring prominantly in the SP Euro election campaign is the militarisation of the EU and on the main leaflet is a call for people to join the anti-Bush protests later in June. The CWI (the international organisation the SP is affiliated to) is involved in elections throughout the European Union in the coming weeks.

If you stand for a Europe that is run by working class people and not by big business and if you are opposed to War and the US use of Shannon you should vote 1 for Joe Higgins.

by Jim Mon May 24, 2004 14:02

".....think that the best way to give a real fright to the scumbags in Leinster House in this election would be for him to get a very big vote. "

The scumbags in Leinster House probably hope he gets elected. He can't be in two places at one time.
I think it's a bad idea. I'm totally against the dual mandate and think socialists should be be more principled on this than others.

by Martin Mon May 24, 2004 13:55

I can't comment on how seriously or otherwise his party are taking this election, but I can tell you why I will be voting for Joe.

To start with, I like his militantly anti-establishment politics and think that the best way to give a real fright to the scumbags in Leinster House in this election would be for him to get a very big vote.

As well, I admire the man's personal commitment, not taking the full wage, going to prison rather than backing down over the bin tax etc.

That's taking nothing away from McKenna who I have a lot of time for and will probably transfer to. She has been the best of our sitting MEP's by a long way although that's a bit like being the tallest dwarf in the circus.

I don't think Joe is going to win, so the transfers will be important.

by Leftie Mon May 24, 2004 13:09

Let's face it the SP are not running a serious campaign for these euro elections.
Firstly they are running a candidate who already has a job and will hardly be able to give this job his full attention.
Secondly they are only running a token poster campaign and this only in areas where they are running local election candidates.
So why should anybody bother to vote for a candidate who is not really taking this election seriously?
McKenna has done a good job for years and surely is worthy of continued support. Not only that she is anti-war and a leading voice on the nastiness of globalisation.

by Leftie Mon May 24, 2004 13:08

Let's face it the SP are not running a serious campaign for these euro elections.
Firstly they are running a candidate who already has a job and will hardly be able to give this job his full attention.
Secondly they are only running a token poster campaign and this only in areas where they are running local election candidates.
So why should anybody bother to vote for a candidate who is not really taking this election seriously?
McKenna has done a good job for years and surely is worthy of continued support. Not only that she is anti-war and a leading voice on the nastiness of globalisation.

by Martin Sun May 23, 2004 14:36

The reason I'm pissed off with this cringe-inducing bit of marketing from the Bacik campaign is that I had higher expectations of her than of the likes of Royston Brady.

Brady really does fill his election leaflets with pictures of him heading footballs or having a bit of kickabout. The idea is to portray this publicity hungy gobshite as being in touch with sports fans and young people generally. It's patronising, it's offensive and it makes me hate the little bollocks all the more.

Bacik isn't really left wing enough for me and I was probably going to vote for Joe Higgins anyway, although it's tempting to pretend that I had been going to vote for her but have had a road to Damascus conversion. Joe almost certainly isn't going to get elected though and therefore my second preference would count. Bacik was in the mix for that along with McDonald and McKenna. She's not now.

Somebody said above that Bacik's postcards come straight out of the Royston Brady school, and you know what? They are right. Marketing gibberish pisses me off. And Bacik (or more likely some marketing shithead in her campaign team) has succeeded in doing that too.

by Oh Dear Sun May 23, 2004 14:21

Joe Higgins struggles to pay rent how?

Oh dear, Bacik backer, you fucked up a bit on that one. Joe Higgins, rather famously, accepts only the average industrial wage out of his dail salary. The thinking is that you can't adequately represent people if you are living a life of luxury and wealth. You don't have to agree with everything the man says to see that as an admirable stand to take.

You also don't have to disagree with Bacik to wish she would do the same. And to know that she won't.

by redjade Sun May 23, 2004 14:19

''Redjade, are you seriously advocating a vote for Prof Bacik? There is a more left wing candidate running that is pro-choice, liberal on social questions, AND opposes coalition deals, privatisation, Nice treaty etc. His name is Joe Higgins.''
. . . . .

as I had written before..... ''therefore she passes a litmus test in my book, anyway. (not that I'm making endorsements or anything)''

Personally I do not look for perfection in politicians, their human too - but she has a good passion within her, thats my impression when Ive met her or seen her in activist situations. She often says things that are 'impolitic' and probably maker her Labour handlers cringe. I like that.

I also like Joe H. and, in a different constituancy, I also like Eoin Dubsky (but my opinion doesn't mean much in these elections)

by Bacik backer Sun May 23, 2004 11:17

How nice, one of our resident UCD SPers jumps in. Do you know how we know your style? Two hints. First of all there's the required reference to (Saint) Joe Higgins. Then there's this bit.

"Name of Person, you are wrong. Something blah blah sell out. Do you really think Name of Person that change can come without the presence of the revolution?

Name of Person, you are deluded. In fact it's disgusting. Name of Person get a grip!"

So anyway, let's look at your pearls of wisdom this time.

"She's going to be on a massive wage if elected as a MEP, not exactley in touch with the average working young person that must struggle to pay rent".

And Joe Higgins struggles to pay rent how?????

That's also the incorrect spelling of exactly. Ah, doing your college proud. Maybe if you weren't so bother about "Trinners" you could check your spelling before posting on this thread.

At least Bacik will take her seat, instead of giving it to her partner, like Saint Joe will do if (if!) he gets elected.

by Emmet Stagger Sun May 23, 2004 05:48

Vote For Her Now.

Frankly, so fucking what?

I hope Ivana wins now. Pity about the Labour Party links tho - now THAT'S an embarassment...

by Lina Sun May 23, 2004 01:26

I am intending to vote for Bacik and this pathetic attempt to slag her off certainly would not put me off .

In my opinion she will make a really good MEP , end of story .

yes , so she doesn't scream through a meagphone for a bloody revolution against the capitalist pigs but she does have really decent policies .

I don't drink alcohol , but it seems to me a tad hypocritical of people who do drink to be slagging her off for advertising in pubs . what the fuck are you doing in the pub if you think they are so evil ? fuck off and stop whining , and stop pissing in my garden on the way home from your night out , ok ?


this Bacik slagging seems to me a cynical ploy by certain socialist parties in an attempt to get themselves more votes ( see above post for example ) .
my prediction : she will get elected , the SP candiates won't (thank god ).

by steve Sun May 23, 2004 01:07

scraping bottom barrell.

this is schoolyard scrapping here. This is the kind of low grade political bitching one would, and does, expect in a US presidential campaign. Im not even a big fan of labour but this sounds like a bunch of whining grannies in a hairdresser bemoaning the lack of morals in the youth of today etc..

by Not so Red Redjade Sat May 22, 2004 23:46

Redjade- ok Professor Bacik may be pro-choice and liberal on social questions. But she supports coalition governments, the Nice Treaty, Public-Private Partnerships, etc. etc.

So what if Professor Bacik is portraying herself as "in touch" with the "youth". The only youth she is in touch with are her undergraduate Trinner students! She's going to be on a massive wage if elected as a MEP, not exactley in touch with the average working young person that must struggle to pay rent, get a house etc etc.

Redjade, are you seriously advocating a vote for Prof Bacik? There is a more left wing candidate running that is pro-choice, liberal on social questions, AND opposes coalition deals, privatisation, Nice treaty etc. His name is Joe Higgins.

by militio Sat May 22, 2004 22:43

Royston Brady? More like Royston Vasey, it's that bloody surreal.

by Observer Sat May 22, 2004 21:38

If you met the gobshite "running" her campaign you'd understand why such a cringe inducing initiative was taken. This sort of shite comes from the Royston Brady school of politics.

by Onlyyoungcareeristsleft Sat May 22, 2004 21:12

Just goes to show you what the Labour Party of today are really like. They have no politics that can attract the support of young people as they are rightfully seen as part of the political establishment. The only young people that are in tha Labour Party now are young careerists that think being in Labour will assist their careers. Just look at Frank Milling, the guys a ardent right winger, supports nazis and tried to ban left wing parties in UCC but he is in Labour.

by militio Sat May 22, 2004 21:03

I'm a left-winger, and I enjoy (love) a few (dozen) pints, so don't please judge this as a self-righteous crusade. However, this is disgusting political behaviour. So Ivana Bacik now believes that instead of attempting to stop the depenancy of young people on drink, she should whore what is essentially a massive problem so that she can gain a few extra votes? Alcoholism is a serious problem, and many young people (incidentally myself included) feel that it is sometimes the only way out of depression and hopelessness. This is essentially (perhaps not meant but that is not the point) an endorsement of club culture in this country, and a use of it to get a few more extra votes. Although I have nothing against clubs and such like per se, I do realise that such culture can be dangerous, as mixed with peer pressure and suchlike it can lead to alcohol binging (and not the governmental definition of "binge" as around 5 pints a night - my definition counts for at least 2.5 times that) and dependancy on alcohol. Perhaps this was not the intention of Bacik, and perhaps she regrets her actions now. But she should be bloody ashamed of herself, either way.

by :-) Sat May 22, 2004 20:55

we will be following the top quality Barcelona home to the 3rd republic coverage of this monarchist wedding with honeymoon shots later on, we are colloborating with the RC family planning people on this.

A vote for Ivana is a vote for Smoochies.

by :-) - professional destroyers of reputation. Sat May 22, 2004 20:05

if the reader go the link they will see a kiss of passion, a public kiss, a display kiss, of young people too canvassing like the svelt athletic Ivana for the support of a generation.

335 hours in your life time.
24 calories every kiss.
Ivana ought trust people more and leave her eyes open.

xxxyz.

by limerick1919 Sat May 22, 2004 19:27

Why don't you scan it and put it up here so we can all judge for ourselves?

by redjade Sat May 22, 2004 16:59

I haven't seen this bit of agitprop either - but i still think she's cool - she has been unwavering in her opposition to the referendum, even when her party was still searching its soul. Being against the referendum and more importantly, pro-immigration and pro-asylum seeker rights is not a vote winner - therefore she passes a litmus test in my book, anyway. (not that I'm making endorsements or anything)

Also, any politician that rides a bike all over town deserves a couple points in the plus column....

by Marky Mark Sat May 22, 2004 16:21

I haven't seen the card yet but I must keep an eye out for one. It sounds fucking hideous. I love the total contempt that Bacik displays for her supposed peers. The only thing young folk are interested in these days is drinking, so who needs to convince them of anything so trivial as what you believe in? Sure they'd only be listening to their hippety hop music and smoking their pcp anyway.

What an unbelievable arsehole.