Rafah Killings

by iosaf Thu May 20, 2004 18:49

Strawberries are amongst the produce which might carry this barcode which rather are made in Palestinian territory. The Dutch gov, has been pressuring the EU to stop mislabeling of Isreali produce.

Good Luck!

http://barcelona.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/91023

by avi H. Fri May 21, 2004 12:32

you come to a more accurate version of events. For example, it is now generally accepted that there was no massacre in Jenin, as had been originally alleged. In the case of Rafah, it is also clear that the IDF did not deliberately fire to hit the crowd. (Think about it: why would we? How would it be in our interest? We're not stupid.) Warning shots were fire. The crowd, which included children, was ordered by the PA to enter a combat zone; so a very useful question is, why did the PA tell them to do such a suicidally dangerous thing?) The troops carried no riot control equipment, because they were not expecting a riot, only full combat. It would also seem that the road may have already been sown with mines by Hamas.

Here's something else: it has been quite clear for sometime that the PA is aware it can't beat the IDF militarily. Therefore, it's strategy is to focus on information warfare techniques, in the hope of creating international pressure on Israel. These involve disinformation and media manipulation. Qtherwise intelligent people fall for this propaganda every time, apparently because the lies they are being told are consistent with their prejudices.

by Avid Merrion Fri May 21, 2004 13:05

I'm thinking about Shatile and Shabra and how could you?

by john Fri May 21, 2004 13:14

Why would we it would not be in our interest........oh and yea the holocaust never happened.
both have the same moral equivalence. What a shame human beings havent moved on from the cycle of the oppressed becoming the oppressors

by Ali Mc Fri May 21, 2004 13:36

Your country is a human rights pariah and a disgrace.

Israel does target civilians as you well know Avi.

Tom Hurndall, for one, was shot in the head by an Israeli soldier while shielding little kids from live fire.

The idea that Palestinians are somehow "responsible" for the Israelis firing missiles and tank shells at them is exactly the sort of logic used by the Nazis and others to justify their crimes.

As for your outrageous claims that children are being deliberately put at risk, let's not forget that these people have been cooped up without food, water or contact with the outside world for days while you demolish what few material possessions they have.

What is the motivation for cutting off water to 30,000 people in Rafah, and preventing the UNHCR from repairing wells sabotaged by the IDF Avi?

Is it that these 30,000 people will be eventually ethnically cleansed so as to make way for a larger buffer zone for Israel?

With no water, food or electricity they have simply no alternative but to take to the streets, their very survival depends on it.

If Israelis are worried about loosing the propaganda war to the Palestinians they should get the fuck out of Gaza and the West Bank and stop massacring the civilian population.

There would then be no requirement for morons like you to try amateur propaganda hour on Indymedia and other forums!

by avi H. Fri May 21, 2004 14:58

once you put aside the hysteria...

by john Fri May 21, 2004 15:10

There is no hysteria to put aside. Many many non aligned non hysterical people have reported back the situation in the occupied territories. Perhaps you should go there yourself and find out what is going on.The only hysteria going on is the genocidal hysteria of Sharons government. They are the ones creating hysteria in order to justify the slaughter of palestinian people. These are the facts. Dont try and distort what are irrefutable facts. Israel and the USA are making life very cheap right now. We will all regret their murderous actions very soon.
Shalom

by prankster Fri May 21, 2004 15:10

you do a real good job of representing your people. Everybody who replys to your posts seems to respect you no end. Hysteria aside, the Israelis are murdering civilians day in,day out, and you try to justify that. Those who were murdered by the Nazis must be turning in their graves. You and those like Sharon who are responsible for the oppression of the Palestinian people are a digrace and belittle the awful suffering inflicted on your ancestors. It may yet come to pass that the Holocaust and the genocide in Palestine will be noted in history as two of the worst examples of mans inhumanity to man. I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

by Ali Mc Fri May 21, 2004 15:26

Palestinian doctors despair at rising toll of children shot dead by army snipers

As the carnage in Rafah escalates, bullet wounds belie the official Israeli line on killings of young teenagers

Chris McGreal in Rafah
Thursday May 20, 2004
The Guardian

The tiny hole buried under Asma Mughayar's thick black hair, just above her right ear, is an illusion, according to the Israeli army. So is her family's insistance that Asma, 16, and her younger brother Ahmed, were both shot through the head by an Israeli soldier as they fed their pigeons and collected the laundry from the roof of their home in Rafah refugee camp.

But their corpses tell a different story, as do the bodies of other children brought to Rafah's hospital and makeshift mortuaries even before yesterday's carnage, in which Israeli tanks and helicopters fired on a peaceful protest by Palestinians in the camp, killing 10 demonstrators, according to Palestinian paramedics.

Israel disputes the Mughayar family's account: that soldiers shot the children on Tuesday. Hours after their death, Israeli officials blamed the Palestinians, telling reporters that Asma and Ahmed had been killed in a "work accident" - a euphemism for bomb-makers blowing themselves up - or by Palestinian fighters who had left a landmine in the street.

"A preliminary investigation indicates they were killed by a bomb intended to be used against soldiers. It was set outside a building by Palestinians to hit an Israeli vehicle. This is probably what happened," a military spokesman said yesterday.

by Ali Mc Fri May 21, 2004 15:35

when Tom Hurndall was shot.

Eventually even your own Zionist government had to admit he was assassinated by the IDF and decided to prosecute.

Your modus operandi is obviously to deny everything and hope it will all go away.

Dont hold your breath Avi, it won't!

Lying propagandist schmuck!

by eoin Fri May 21, 2004 15:44

There is a big difference between a scapegoat and a perpitrator.

The IDF is obviously guilty of murdering civilians, to say they are scapegoats is to say that those people were killed by someone else and then the IDF was blamed.

is that what you mean to say? that they did not kill those civilians? or were you trying to justify it?

by avi H. Sun May 23, 2004 18:51

why don't you also boycott visiting Palestinians for perpertrating race hate crimes against the Jewish people, such as blowing up discotheques and pizzerias full of Israeli chidren? After all, you should at least be consistent; otherwise you could be fairly accused of just picking on Jews. That would put you in some fairly bad company, historically speaking, wouldn't it?

by Northern Eye Sun May 23, 2004 20:06

Avi, if the Jewish people during WW2 had started blowing Germans up in discos and bars to fight back against a stronger and more murderous monster, we couldn't really have blamed them now, could we? Its not right to target innocents but the Palestinians have to make Israel feel their pain somehow. Whatever Israel gets it brought it all on itself, just like the Nazis brought it all on Germany. The Palestinians are a oppressed people but not broken and they'll use every weapon they can against a Nazi state that stole their land and ruined thewir exsistence. I don't agree with them blowing themselves up on buses but I don't blame them either.

by avi H. Sun May 23, 2004 20:33

it's not right to target innocents.

by avi H. Sun May 23, 2004 20:36

Palestinians have to make Israelis feel pain. Israel has offered them ample other, negotiated ways to solve their problems.

by -rat pack- - forming a generation's prejudices and political opinion. Sun May 23, 2004 21:47

you are losing every screed of European confidence. And you know it.
Allow us three more years of Sharon and this Barbarity, and I assure you the majority of University students the "prospective leaders" of thier society's will not accept the
"Legitmacy of the Israeli State."

Because we are quick accepting the truth that there are so many illegitimate powers in our world. Mr bush for example. Blatently illegitimate.
It's not a hop skip and jump to turn that on you now is it?
If you had apologised for the wanton attack on innocents on the last week, you would have kept in "diplomatic taciturn tongue in check" the rat pack, who now want the legitimacy of your state re-examined.

You Brought It On Yourselves.
Shalom obviously is never going to mean
Saleem.

by Gaillimhed Wed May 26, 2004 10:49

Such is the mentality behind the state of israel:
As always religion fuels the fire of supremacy and self-righteousness. Wouldnt you think the good and long suffering jewish people would know better.?

A friend of Avi's says.....

"killing non-Jewish civilians is compatible with religious laws according to a ruling by Rabbi Dov Lior, Chairman of the Jewish Rabbinical Council, considered among the most learned sages of the Torah.

Lior, like most of the rabbis of the Gush Emunim settler movement, believes that Biblical commandments such as "thou shall not murder" refer only to "Jews" since the Torah was given to Jews, not Gentiles.
Dov Lior is considered a champion rabbi among settlers. In 1994, he strongly supported the murder by an American immigrant settler, Baruch Goldstein, of 29 Palestinian worshippers at the Ibrahimi Mosque.
Lior then issued a religious edict, saying, "a thousand non-Jewish lives are not worth a Jew's fingernail".

Several months after the massacre, Lior told disciples in Kiryat Araba near the occupied West Bank city of Hebron "Jewish blood was redder than non-Jewish blood … and that a Jewish life is preferred by the Lord than a non-Jewish life".

"The law of our Torah is to have mercy on our soldiers and to save them. This is the real moral behind Israel's Torah and we must not feel guilty due to foreign morals,"

So far, the majority of Israeli religious leaders, including the two Grand Rabbis (one representing Western Jews 'Ashkenazim' and the other representing eastern Jews 'Tsfaradim') have refused to condemn or repudiate Lior's views.