Preparing for Bush visit

by Anti-war activist Fri Apr 02, 2004 20:59

From what has already been posted it is clear the Anti-War Ireland are organising a demonstration for Shannon airport on the Friday night as Bush arrives, while the IAWM are protesting at the summit on the Saturday (if they can get near it!).

Now, it is clear that what is needed are large numbers and a bit of imagination - and the posting above is going to attract neither. Same old posturing and same old bullshit talk about hoodies etc. If this was published yesterday it would make more sense. You'll definitely attract the attention of the tabloids but you won't be attracting many anti-war activists.

The Anti-War Ireland gig on the Friday evening is where people should be at. Enough big talk: do something! And if you plan 'direct action' then just do it! This shite of telling everybody beforehand what you want to do and then doing sfa is getting old fast.

You've had a year to organise serious direct action and you haven't - why haven't you organised a group to go over the fence at the airport? Now, you see an opportunity to hid in amongst the crowd at a large demo and it's time to talk big again. Pleaazzee!

by Maxdor Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:28

I think he is a great man. I am a huge fan of his. he has done such great things like liberting Iraq and Afghanistan - he will be regarded centuries from now as one of the greatest Aemrican Presidents ever.

I will be out waving the Stars and Stripes to show him that the people of Ireland love America - the land of freedom - that great country which is home to so many of our people.

by Eoin Dubsky Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:21

My experience working in affinity groups has been so helpful *that I would strongly recommend it* to anyone planning an action at Shannon. The Antiwar Ireland working groups are a great idea, but for security and practicality's sake (your own, your action's, and Antiwar Ireland's) it might be best to work with a small "self-help" affinity group.

There must be over 100 people in Ireland now who've participated in nonviolent direct actions with an affinity group (i.e. not directed by a megafone, and not just acting unilaterally either) in Britain or Ireland in the past few years. Another 200 or so at least have participated in nonviolence workshops, where they formed temporary affinity groups and roleplayed direct actions and interactions with police. If only a small fraction of these people would get together in their groups again (or form new ones), brainstorm action ideas, plan, organize, execute etc... Woohoo!

by cryptofascist Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:01

I truly wish I could share your faith and believe that Bush is the saviour of the earth. But I dont believe in Bush, or in the bogeyman he would convince me is out to get me, or in Fairy Godmothers or in defensive military operations half way around the world in someone else's country.

Of all my 'unbeliefs' (Bush, Bogeyman, Fairy Godmother), its interesting to note that only one of them is dangerous. Guess which one.

Not in my name. Not in my country. Not in my time.

by Anon Sat Apr 03, 2004 19:03

If you don't mind me saying, Eoin, this talk of 'affinity groups' has become a bit of a bore as well. Civil disobedience/direct action isn't brain science, and it certainly doesn't require trained active service units. Demythologize and we might find ourselves persuading more people to engage in civil disobedience.

The sort of jargon that includes the term 'affinity group' is simply off-putting for most people. Hundreds and hundreds of Irish people have engaged in some type of civil disobedience (bin charges campaign etc.) over the past few years, and in the right context it will be possible to get more people to act at Shannon. This won't happen if would-be persuaders continue to use jargon and organisational concepts that most people don't give a shite about. The 'affinity group' concept (which is just a bunch of friends looking out for each other) is worthless to those from outside the activist community who haven't the connections or network before attending the demo. And, by the way, I have even less time for 'workshops' - civil disobedience never needed 'workshops' in the past and this trendy American idea is premised on the notion that people need special training to break the law. Well, emm, they don't and never have.

Finally, upsetting as this may be to middle class types (who think a degree and 'proper qualifications' are everything), you don't need 'qualifications' from a 'workshop' to effectively engage in civil disobedience/direct action. You learning by doing in this case, and not from reading books, manuals, or listening to self-appointed experts (who've mostly only read a few books or attended a few 'workshops' themselves).

by Deirdre Clancy - Pit Stop Ploughshares Sat Apr 03, 2004 19:59

Actually Eoin's posting makes many fair points. It is nothing to do with being middle class. I've met plenty of people in affinity groups who are from working-class backgrounds.

As someone who acted with an 'affinity group', although I didn't call it that at the time, I would say it is vital to do so, and to have dicussions and workshops before an action is very important. My only regret is that I didn't have more of them. Far from mythologising direct action, as 'Anon' suggests, this actually demystifies the process of civil disobedience and arrest, dissolves many common fears, and prepares people effectively. I also found that, through talking to more experienced activists in workshops and informally, and through reading, I was a lot more prepared for the social/professional implications of doing a serious action, of which there are many. If the action you take is serious, you may be censored by some who you thought were friends, and it may also affect your employment prospects and situation. You need to be psychologically prepared for that, and you also need to be very sure of your convictions before you face that sort of censorship too. Preparation is vital for both of these eventualities.

Contrary to 'Anon's' suggestion, not very many people do nonviolent civil disobedience in Ireland compared to other countries. The bin charges and the farmers were about the only examples other than anti-war protestors in the last few years. And compared to England and the States, proportionally the amount of people who did civil disobedience coming up to the war on Iraq was low. I've spoken to many people who are afraid to get arrested, and understandably so. I would have felt similarly myself a few years ago. Often, a workshop with an affinity group reverses that through contact with like-minded people and the contstruction of a proper strategy. I know that this has been my experience. Sometimes, we are talking about a legal process that will take up several years of someone's life, and/or a possible imprisonment that could also take a chunk out of their lives. A process of discernment to see if people feel ready to do this is important, and is only fair to both the individual themselves and anybody else in their life who might be affected by it. Another reason these workshops are important is because people are held accountable to a community (and a community to them) and their motivations are examined and re-examined by themselves and others, which is important especially if it's a serious action.

There are also lots of things that can go wrong on a practical level if you just go and do civil disobedience without any preparation and/or in a unilateral, sudden manner. You can end up isolated during your trial and imprisonment. You can, through lack of preparation, say things during interrogation that would incrimminate you through your ignorance of the law and your lack of a strategy arrived at with a group. So, like anything you do that has serious implications for your life and the lives of those around you, it is just common sense to prepare. Not to do so is the thing that is inadvisable, rather than the other way around.

by Eoin Dubsky Sat Apr 03, 2004 21:47

I didn't mean to be preaching like some "self-appointed expert" -- and I did start by pointing out that my comment was directed "to anyone planning an action at Shannon". My point was that people may find organizing in an affinity group useful if they *aren't* going to wait for either (a) the "self-appointed experts" of the movement to give them the nod to participate in a prescribed mass action, or (b) the chaotic moment when it "just happens" and they find themselves crossing the line. It's just a message directed at people who are already "moving from protest to resistance" at Shannon themselves (there's more jargon for ya!). ;-)

Anon: "The 'affinity group' concept (which is just a bunch of friends looking out for each other) is worthless to those from outside the activist community who haven't the connections or network before attending the demo."

...Well that's what the workshops are for then! Go to a workshop one day, get a feel for who else there might be up for what you're feeling like doing, work together on the issues you need to cover (e.g. nonviolence, fears of assault/arrest/prison, finances, personal issues), etc...
Ah, but you have "even less time for 'workshops' ", because you already know how to break the law and its not hard. Great so, if you know how to break the law, and you don't need any of that other sissy foreign stuff like roleplays and sharing your hopes and fears, you must be as tough as nails, and we'll all be reading about your dramatic solo/mass nonviolent direct action at Shannon in the morning. Good luck! :-D

Finally, you make it sound as if there's something elitist about this affinity group and nonviolence workshop stuff. I've explained here many times before how working in affinity groups keeps the power and knowledge needed for the nonviolent action right where it should be (with those who are doing the action, and later possibly prison time). I don't see how that's elitist.

by Anon Sat Apr 03, 2004 22:45

Good to see a reaction. Firstly, my scepticism regarding 'affinity groups' and their usefulness (or otherwise) was NOT in relation to the type of actions carried out by the Pitstop Ploughshares, Mary Kelly, or other groups, that properly plan(ned) an incursion within the grounds of the airport. In that context, of course it is essential that planning occur and that everybody involved is prepared and ready for the consequences.

However, to suggest that this type of preparation is necessary for the upcoming anti-Bush demos puzzles me more than a little. It is true that there has been little civil disobedience around the anti-war movement and that needs to change. If it happens at the Bush demos it will necessarily involve large numbers (or a goodly number) and mostly people who won't have an opportunity to attend 'non-violence workshops' or join 'affinity groups' - and for many such jargon and organisational methods belong to a rarified world. The reality is that if something happens, it will happen - as in the past - by people simply taking action themselves. People do not need to be 'trained' in mass civil disobedience and, to be honest Eoin (while I respect you and where you're coming from), I do believe that a bit of an expert culture has developed around this.

Let me put this in a nutshell: civil disobedience (and I'm NOT talking about specially planned direct actions) does not require special training or affinity groups. Actually, what it really requires is a cultural shift in the anti-war movement and a lessening of respect for the law (immorally employed) allied to a breakdown of people's fear of arrest. However, I believe that shift is partially hindered by people using jargon and fostering an 'expert culture'. And btw Eoin, this is an observation not an insult.

Finally, I'm not sure what is being suggested here anyway. Over the past year we've heard constant clarion calls to direct action and calls for the holding of 'non-violence workshops' and the creation of 'affinity groups'. Where is the product? I see little evidence of any serious intent and in that context this is all just more bluster. (Again, I don't have you in mind Eoin, but, emm, I am not excluding those who posted the above story from my injunction.) If people are serious about a direct action then they should just get on with it...if not, then, for pity's sake, they should fcuk off and leave us alone!

Pax.

by Eoin Dubsky Sun Apr 04, 2004 00:07

I must have misunderstood what "galway grassrooster" was proposing, and that could be what this mix up with Anon is about too. I didn't think that only "anti-Bush demos" were on the cards (forgive me, I'm getting into the lingo here again cause I think that's where we're going wrong).

"Anon" supports the idea of prep (affinity groups, workshops too I guess) before higher-risk actions at Shannon Airport. My post was, as I said earlier, directed at people who are planning to do an action at Shannon. People who can't or won't take the risks involved and will instead do lesser-risk protests ("anti-Bush demos") might find a workshop and affinity group helpful anyway though.

When an "expert culture" -- still always open, accountable and nonviolent -- develops in a struggle, surely that should be welcomed? We're about a million miles from there, but what's wrong with trying to share knowledge and skills with deliberate methods like affinity groups and nonviolence workshops?

by marcus Sun Apr 04, 2004 19:25

i am not very artistic but maybe somebody readiing this is:
an image of bush bending over with bertie kissing his ass bush says "ooh you are good at this" bertie replies"sure didn't i get enough practice in the eighties with charlie haughey"(bush could respond with "who?" if you like). Bertie could also be holding a piece of paper saying "US freedom to kill anybody they like, signed berite"
these could be left on seats in pubs in the evenings so as not to be offensive to children
if somebody thinks they have a good drawing done please put it up on this site and i for one will print a couple up and pass them around

by Adult Sun Apr 04, 2004 19:34

Dont be ridiculous, Marcus. Dont waste the space here with your schoolboy level of humour. If you were capable of drawing a good cartoon yourself you would be welcome to, but you need to be a bit more sophisticated in your ideas.

by Moss Mon Apr 05, 2004 03:01

We need a list of places W is visiting so we can place enormous banners with slogans and images on the gables of houses on the main routes to these places for the worlds media to photograph our voices in 3 foot letters. People all over tyhe country will jump at the opportunity to express their feelings with a little encouragement and organizing.

by galway grassrootser Mon Apr 05, 2004 15:40

Actually, this meeting came out of a previous meeting with several Anti-war Ireland heads. Most of those who attended on Saturday are/will be members of that new network.

The black hoody thing was a joke. Maybe indymedia should provide a workshop on sarcasm for idiot trolls, cos i'm getting sick of having to explain things several times here. (The workshop idea is a joke too, obviously)

We weren't forming a new group, or planning affinity group actions. If you'll read the original post, you'll see we were trying to get the rudimentary stuff in place. Things like publicity, legal support, accomodation, and finance don't just happen, and to the best of my knowledge, Anti-War Ireland have not started preparing any of this stuff for June.

So in conclusion, "anti-war activist"(yea right), we're ever-so-fucking-sorry for trying to ensure that there are some support structures in place for what should be one of the biggest protests Ireland has seen in a long time.

by Anti-war activist Mon Apr 05, 2004 21:50

I've seen the email that you're fired out all over the shop where you talk about "causing trouble" at Shannon during the Bush visit and other infantile posturing. Whose agenda is that going to suit? The tabloids and the police, that's who.

So, try and do something about that "sense of humor" you've got, cos to me it sounds more like loose big talk.

The media will be doing their best to make us look like we're planning violence and the last thing that's needed is crap like that email, or stuff about hoodies (bad joke or not).

by gg Tue Apr 06, 2004 13:25

Wow, you mean the one that's repeated above? Well done.

If you could read, you'd notice that there's no mention of causing trouble. You're referring to a postscript which gives a brief history of galway grassroots, and includes a link to an indymedia story about a Top Oil blockade on March 20th, with the words, "here's us causing trouble in Dublin".

A blockade??! Oh shit, that's just serving the agenda of the state right? How dare we attempt direct action?! The comment refers to a previous, peaceful action and has nothing to do with our plans for June

I didn't write that e-mail, I didn't see it till it was out on the list, and yet, somehow, I understood that the hoody comment and the "causing trouble" bit were meant in a light-hearted way. Amazingly, so did EVERYONE else (except you). I know it's strange, but those who came to the meeting didn't even wear black hoodies!!

"The media will be doing their best to make us look like we're planning violence.."

READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE YOU FUCKWIT, IT CLEARLY STATES THE MEETING HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTION PLANNING

by Daren C Tue Apr 06, 2004 17:36

I don't know how Ireland is covering the War, but you all seem BW'd into thinking that were murdering women and children. We are killing the people who are zealots dedicated to killing or converting the world to Islam. If that is what Ireland thinks is murder, then we MURDERED thousands of Germans in WWII,and we murdered Japanese who were demolishing Chinese villages. If that is the definition of murder, then yes, Dubya's a murderer. Ireland would do good to stay on USA's side. I hate to see the country of my ancestors aligning themselves with the French, who have more ties to Irai oil than the US ever did. That's why France protested. They had big-ass contracts with Hussein.

by Northern Eye Tue Apr 06, 2004 18:54

Well, whatever you're calling it when US helicopter gunships are riddling Iraqi neighbourhoods and warplanes are dropping massive bombs in the same neighbourhoods, it dosen't matter to the Iraqi people on the ground who are seeing the actual results of your actions ie: dead children and women killed by a foreign and greedy state, an alien and hated culture come to THEIR towns and villages which shoots down THEIR people on the streets and which is led by the hated Israels best friend GWB. Is this likely to bring more peace to the world or less?

You really do think that Islamic fanatics have a chance anyway of converting the world to Islam anyway? Fuck boy you are thick. Just another stupid far-fetched reason by a ignorant country to play the international cowboy and which only had the effect of creating another million or so would be suicide bombers. I see a month of September 11th's before America learns it lesson.

And anyway the US did murder thousands of Germans and Japanese by droping tons and tons of bombs over civilian areas to terrorise the locals and did murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people with the two atomic bombs over Japan, but fuck me, at least they had reasons for going to war against those two countries which were a threat against the States. Iraq wasn't but by Christ it is now. Just you wait and see how much hate you've released and prepare to reap the whirlwind. Maybe enough attacks against America will bring it out of its stupid age.

by brainwashed by a media i don't listen to? Wed Apr 07, 2004 13:39

Um..yea i think any rational human being would consider those as horrific acts of mass murder.

Think you're the brainwashed one my friend

by Pamela Wed Apr 07, 2004 14:57

Many hours ago I could be said to have been in the vanguard of the 'Bitch against Bush' movement, but Ive changed. I have been convinced by some of the fine right-wing commentators on these pages - Georgie is really rather sweet and heroic.

The lefties just emphasise all the killing, as if that were the most important thing about George Bush? They insist in going-on-and-on about killing his own people in Texas, playfully ending the persistent breathing of some underclass clown or other, before going to the ball game.

And then they will throw more figures out at you of people George killed in Afghanistan, (and more that he ordered killed but they just couldnt get them). They usually follow that up with some 10,000 dead in Iraq, 'human slaughter', 'blood on Bush's hands' and all that crap.

Some might even add in there the Ecuadorian Angel Shingre, assasinated in the days when he was due to testify against Texaco last year. (Here I would have to interject, in George's defence, that he had no direct involvement in that one, though it would certainly have made Pappy proud).

The poor sad lefties, this is what they keep banging on about! And some of them will go so far as to put names and faces to these so called 'human beings' who George has killed!shamelessly pressing our empathy buttons, as if we should conceive of all these thousands as having been real people, in the same sense as you and I are real, living beings, (yeah, give me a break), appropriating to each single, little, human entity the breadth and full dimension of 'being' which we each claim for our own humanity.

But what these sad lefties DONT tell you about, what they never like to point out is - look at all the people he left alive, THAT HE DIDNT KILL!
(yet)

by ucd student Wed Apr 07, 2004 15:07

Pamela you are brain dead, intellectually mis informed and quite unfortunate really

by no you are Wed Apr 07, 2004 15:11

....

by Sarcasm Wed Apr 07, 2004 15:12

Personally I thought that Pamela's sarcasm was rather heavy-handed, but clearly it was too subtle for you UCD Student. Go back to the canteen.

by Daren Carroll Thu Apr 08, 2004 15:10

THe Japs refused to surrender, and rather than risk an invasion of Japan that would cost millions of American AND Japanese lives, Truman decide to subdue them with a bomb. Japan refused to surrender after one, so we let'm have another. As far as Germany goes, I wouldn't endorse that policy today. But in Iraq, the civ casualties have been kept to a minimum compared to other wars, especially Germany. You Euro-wimps have lost all your nerve. You faint at the sight of blood, and you are ever ready to blame the USA for all your problems. War is war, civs WILL die and they have died throughout history.

by Daren Carroll Thu Apr 08, 2004 15:15

I don't worship bush, or think he's the savior of the world or any shit like that. As far as killing those in his home state, they deserve it. He was one of the few governors who was still willing to give the death penalty to murderers. You lefties seem to care more about the guilty then you do about the victims. Reports are coming in from iraq, 400,000 dead under Sadaam's reign. Compared to 10,000, Bush is a saint. If you hate capitalism and freedom so mush, pull your face off its fat tit, and move to Saudi Arabia.

by jeff Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:28

You have converted me. If I was Iraqi ( Eye-Rawk-eh), and my kid sister died in a bomb, I would still welcome the Americans, because editorials in the Sindo, and clever people like you have convinced me that there is so much more, a bigger picture so to speak. If I was Iraqi, I would ignore my human instincts and learn to love westerners with guns.

Especially when my uncle gets shot for driving his taxi about and being in the wrong place at the wrong time, dude.

What I would really love though, is a platoon of Jarheads bursting through my door at five in the morning, and accidently shooting my family members. Sure don't worry about it, lads, sit down and have a cup of tea, sure arn't yiz superior to us, like?

I would also like the fact that my country's industry is to be completly owned by private forgeign companies. I would buy Fox tv, and read Krauthammer, Pipes and tell people that less government and free marketering is great-now you don't vote for your government, a big multinational tells you what to do. Oh, joy!

Thirst for revenge, whats that? I simply must get back now to revamping my Haliburton shares portfolio, and attend a born again Christian meeting, because that is the righteous way, Amen...( George Bush told me that)

Yep, instead of being a normal person that enjoys scratching a Rolls Royce when I see one, damn! I'll learn to love wealth, and success, and learn how to deny the myth of global warming.

Everything you believe is true. G'wan ye boyo!

by Confused Sat May 15, 2004 21:01

Why should George Bush come to Ireland.I would like to find out some good,genuine reasons why he wants to come,besides trying to seal the Irish-American vote

by Vegas Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:37

This has got to be some kind of sick joke ? Since when does liberated = destroyed ? Rember there is NO evidence that either Osama OR Saddam were involved IN ANY WAY with 9/11. I am not a ranting liberal I just say what I see.