Sinn Fein - Towards Zero waste

by Badman Mon Feb 16, 2004 16:29

Should read:

"We will be urging people to believe that we have been doing something about the issue, and since no one will bother reading this work of fiction, just vote for us. We care, we swear."

Before the last election Fine Gael released a similar strategy for "zero waste". Predictably it was a load of nonsense and based on the most outlandish predictions possible. Policy releases of opposition parties nowadays are nothing more than fantasy novels. Along the lines of "Given our predicted rate of 120% economic growth, we will be able to eliminate economic inequality by 2005..."

If you want to know what they are going to do, look at what they have done when given a bit of power (eg Sligo), or even what they have done where they have some influence (eg Daly in Tallaght). If you believe the policy offerings of opposition parties, you would believe that a FG government will bring a socialist environmentalist utopia.

by Janus Mon Feb 16, 2004 16:33

Ummmm, you might be right, it could be the greatest load of horseshite since anything Milton Friedman ever wrote, but would it not be worth waiting to see the actual charter before commenting on it?

Read it, analyse it, then comment on it, and for all I know abuse might be what it deserves, but better to see something before a blanket condemnation.

I think the SF 2002 General Election manifeso didn't add up at all, but I waited until I read it before saying so.

by observer Mon Feb 16, 2004 16:41

who have led thousands of people up the garden path over the bins. You're very quiet over that I notice? At least SF and others are actually honest with their constituents not like these fuckers telling people not to pay and to dump their rubbish on amenity areas, and then coming back and admitting the thing is lost but that at least they put up a fight!!

It's so obvious what the SP tactic has been all along although I think they may have miscalculated on the potential electoral benefits.

Remind anyone of Liverpool in the 80s..... anyone? Seem to remember that was led by a chap called Hatton. Remember him? The people of Liverpool do - the millionaire gangster trotskyite.

by Badman Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:02

The SP, unlike SF, have a very marginal relevance to politics in this country (maybe in 2 constituencies). Who cares if the SP are just as bad as SF? Most people are much more interested in whether SF have anything real to offer and don't have any illusions in the SP, or even know about them.

Janus: I will read the document. I like to get my predictions in in advance. The best proof of a theory is its ability to predict the future. I can give you the next 10 years of SF in a nutshell if you like, without waiting around for them to do it.

by Janus Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:11

Fire away badman, and think about asking Paddy Powers for a wager on this. Though I suspect 'coalition with Fianna Fáil' will be one prediction and so far the extreme left have batted 0 for 2 on that one.

by Joe Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:15

But Janus are you suggesting that SF would not go into coalition with FF under any circumstances.

Right now it would be 'embarrassing' for both parties for different reasons. But if you got a Dail hung in the way that this was the only opition do any of us think it would not happen? It is hard to see ANY issue that it might founder round.

by Aidan - IMC Editorial Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:17

Would the person at Sinn Fein office please get it lodged in their thick skulls that press releases are not news reports.

Someone from Sinn Fein has been posting a deluge of press releases on any matter under the sun, under the "news report" catergory.

by bbf Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:22

I think it is excellent to see that Sinn Fein is to launch a paper on how to deal with the waste problem. I agree with a previous post that often it is prudent to actually read a document before giving a judgement on it.
The SP led by their intrepid opportunist, Mick Murphy, in Tallaght has led the people up the garden path. But all opinion would tend to agree that this tactic has done nothing but backfired on him. The level of support, which he was receiving in the past, is dropping by the day. The South Dublin County council have had to put in a ticket system in order to deal with the amount of people queuing up to pay. Last week as protestors lay in the lobby people stepped over them to get to the window. This gives no pleasure to my self or others as I strongly opposed to these charges. However it is good to see that the people have seen through the Electioneering of the SP. This protest will not bring about an end to these unjust charges. We have seen this in Fingal were it died out to an embarrassing end.
Murphy and his small cohort will go around the doors and say, “Well at least we did something”. Well Sinn Fein will be attempting to do something that will solve the problem and not taking part in stunts and sending people up the garden path and we will be proud to bring that to the doorsteps of the people. SP have never put forward any answer to the following question “HOW WILL THE CURRENT PROTEST BRING ABOUT AND END TO THESE CHARGES?” I would argue that given the power of the county manager that it has no chance of suceeding. People don’t appreciate cosmetic exercises such as the current Murphy led protest. They want real policies that will bring about change. The sp should stop involving themselves in what is pure folly and back policy to get rid of the waste problem in Dublin.

by . Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:29

from all campaigns.

by Badman Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:38

The shinners putting the boot in to the anti-bin tax campaign now that they think it has been defeated. The bin tax campaign was never the property of the SP and it is shameful to see the Shinners attacking what has been a real campaign of working class people on the pretext of running down the SP. The alternative that they offer is boils down to lobbying. I wonder if there really are people in SF nowadays who believe that the problem with waste is really that nobody has put forward a good enough alternative waste management strategy? As if the bin tax was ever about waste management. Do you think the shift in taxation towards the poor was just coincidental, where is the class analysis?

"Well Sinn Fein will be attempting to do something that will solve the problem and not taking part in stunts and sending people up the garden path and we will be proud to bring that to the doorsteps of the people. "

This boils down to saying that mass community action is juvenile, and the only way to bring about change is to produce better policy documents whereupon the government will presumably cave in to the logic of their arguments. Cloud cuckoo land stuff.

Finally, I have absolutely no time for the SP or their role in the bin tax campaign (which I consider to have been negative on balance) but for SF to pretend now that they had a more realistic strategy to get rid of the tax and that the whole thing was just a stunt for the SP is a disgusting piece of opportunism. Face the facts lads, in most of the city you did nothing to stop the tax and policy documents are about as useful as toilet paper in rolling it back.

by Curious Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:50

Let's see your ten year plan then!

by Whatever Mon Feb 16, 2004 17:52

I Tink that the current orgainser's - not just the SP need to answer is "Will the current campaign defeat these charges?" Many would say no and want to know were we go to from here.
If the answer is No then what do we do?
I would argue that we need to do somthing but what. Maybe Sinn Fein do have the answer. Lets wait and see?

by observer Mon Feb 16, 2004 18:47

Difference between SF and SP is that SF has never attempted to opportunistically highjack issues to make electoral gains. Republicans have been active in Dublin working class communities for generations. The seats they have now have not appeared out of nowhere and the base republican vote has endured over decades of real repression.

SP ought to reflect on the words of an old Miltiant (now ex SP) comrade who once told me as a callow young striker that you had to judge each issue from the point of view of the people directly involved, and not as a minor part of some revolutionary opera. People strike for better pay/conditions/right to join a trade union, not for a Soviet Republic. If some of them become radicalised along the way, that is a bonus but the first duty of their leaders is to win the strike.


The people, including myself and most republicans, who have not paid the charges, want to know how they will be gotten rid of. SF was honest with them and pointed out the balance of power on the Councils and the fact that the power to remove them had been taken away. It was always going to be a difficult one, especially with the lack of support from the unions. SF voted against the charges,campaigned within the unions for action but also opposed some of the tactics of the campaign because they were counter-productive.

by Me Mon Feb 16, 2004 19:02

"It was always going to be a difficult one, especially with the lack of support from the unions. SF voted against the charges,campaigned within the unions for action but also opposed some of the tactics of the campaign because they were counter-productive."

Whatever happened to the days when Militant was a real force within unions. Who is their main organiser now? Time for a change folks - give the job to somebody who might make an impact.

by Onlooker Mon Feb 16, 2004 19:11

"Whatever happened to the days when Militant was a real force within unions. Who is their main organiser now? "

Kevin McLoughlin, he took over after Dermot Connolly "resigned" from the SP General Secretary post.

"Time for a change folks - give the job to somebody who might make an impact."

Sorry, but they are unlikely to invite John Throne back.

by all i can say is . . .. Tue Feb 17, 2004 02:09

Except Gerry writes books of course . . .


WEF rules OK

by pat hare Tue Feb 17, 2004 09:51

I think if you compare the two careers of Adams and Rabbitte you will find a great deal of difference. Rabbitte has never worked a day in his life. He came into politics via the USI and along the way has run for the Senate (with the endorsement of Garrett Fitzgerald) in 1973, joined and helped to destroy the Workers Party, got nice cushy number in ITGWU/SIPTU (which btw he can go back to if/when he manages to fuck up the LP), founded DL for some obscure reason, and has now turned his head of Medusa on the poor old LP.

Adams, meanwhile, whatever you think of his politics, has led a rather more interesting life. From left republican family, actually worked at real jobs!, interned, imprisoned etc, etc, and a tad more genuine than Mr fucking perfect who's idea of politics is to have the crack with Bertie at question time, and try and win over the Irish people through the pages of the SUnday Tribune.

by Paul Carter Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:51

It has been very interesting to watch this battle between Sinn Fein and Mick Murphy et al.
As a member of another political party but also a person with a lot of knowledge of the area I would suggest that the only party who will actually win out of this will be Labour (I am not labour, I am a proud FF supporter). They have kept above it all while their councillors have voted against it.
As for Mick Murphy? Two weeks ago I feel that Sinn Fein and other parties where looking forward to the campaign with trepidation in case somebody mentioned the bins. Now I feel that this is changing. Murphy's led campaign has had little or no support in the community, the queue up at the council each day of people paying tell us that. I feel that Sinn Fein and the other parties will go on the offensive, they will be quite happy to talk about their plans for waste management on the doorstep. They will seek to link Murphy to this ultimately failed project. They are, and will continue to brand the man as an opportunist and I feel that this will be ultimately successful. I see this campaign dying out with-in about a month and then the other parties having about 12 weeks to attack the creditability of Murphy and link him to the similar campaign just before the last election on Motor Insurance for the young under the cover of “JAG.”
Also Sinn Fein has been quite cute in the candidates they have chosen in Tallaght south and central as the new faces. They have Brendan Ferron who has a very strong base in the IT in Tallaght amongst the students, the party feel that he will bring in a lot of people who did not previously vote Sinn Fein. Also in Killnamanagh they have Sean O'Cadhala who has a good record of honest community work in many deprived schools in the area, they will seek to compare this to Murphy’s record. These two are untouched by the whole issue and will run solely on there own records.
Ultimately in this row I actually see the vote of Murphy drop as the party machines role against him. Last week they had apparently 25 canvassers out in Belgard (Sinn Fein) 4 months before the election. I ultimately hope they do not do that well but i cant see it happening.
As for Mick? He is not a bad bloke but unfortunately he backed a looser and now he won’t be allowed to forget it.

by observer Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:11

Interesting analysis. Wouldnt be too concerned about "nice bloke" Mick. That's what happens in the real world. He was not too shy about throwing dirt around and promising people all sorts. Now it's up to others to pick up the pieces. Basically it comes down to responsibility to those you represent. SF are and have been in there for the long haul - 30 years of solid work through all sorts of ups and downs. SP will move on to some other gimmick no doubt.

by Janus Tue Feb 17, 2004 14:43

Can I make two requests here, one that the alleged Paul Carter continue to post, we don't have enough people from FF putting forward their arguments.

And secondly if people could refrain from the mad screaming ranting so beloved of certain groups and engage when people like that do post?

by Janus Tue Feb 17, 2004 14:43

Can I make two requests here, one that the alleged Paul Carter continue to post, we don't have enough people from FF putting forward their arguments.

And secondly if people could refrain from the mad screaming ranting so beloved of certain groups and engage when people like that do post?

by observer Tue Feb 17, 2004 15:38

Has this become the campaign that dare not speak it's name?

by bbf Tue Feb 17, 2004 16:24

Dublin South East Sinn Féin is launching a major campaign against incineration and for a proper waste management strategy for Dublin City. This campaign, which is being supported by party spokespersons on the Environment Arthur Morgan TD and Willie Clarke MLA, will involve protests at the proposed site of an incinerator at Ringsend, lobbying of politicians locally and nationally, ongoing consultation with the local community and a waste management charter which we will be asking people to sign. Speaking at the launch of the waste management charter - Towards Zero Waste, Sinn Féin Representative for Dublin South East Daithí Doolan said:

"There is a real waste management crisis in this country. Landfill sites are overflowing, and illegal dumping is widespread. Instead of a comprehensive and effective waste management system being implemented across the island, we have seen plans for a network of incinerators as the primary response to this crisis. Sinn Féin is campaigning for an all-Ireland strategy to combat waste and pollution, a strategy based on waste reduction, reuse and recycling.

"Unlike the government who feel it necessary to bring in draconian legislation to assist them in their plan to impose hazardous incinerators in our cities and towns. We will consult, engage and respond to peoples needs

"We are calling on elected representatives from all parties, environmental groups, community organisations, rural and agricultural groups and the business sector to sign up to this charter and strengthen the campaign for a long term solution to our waste management crisis.

"We also fully understand that the causes and consequences of our waste crisis knows no borders or boundaries. So those in Sinn Féin are in the unique position to implement this charter on an all Ireland basis. All our communities are affected by a waste crisis, all our communities will be affected by incineration and it is up to all of us to implement an environmentally sustainable response. And it is with this charter we hope to play our part and we encourage all others to join with us and do the same."ENDS

Towards Zero Waste

A new Zero Waste Strategy that prioritises the reduction, reuse and recycling of waste;
Halting and reversing plans for a network of waste incinerators. These proposed incinerators will endanger human health and the environment and will require a constant stream of waste in order to operate, thus working against real waste reduction;
Legally requiring the main industrial and commercial producers of waste and packaging to reduce waste production in a planned and targeted manner;
A comprehensive strategy for agricultural waste, concentrating on biological treatment of waste in an environmentally friendly and sustainable manner;
Development of a strategy to ensure that packaging is reusable.
Establishing "recycling and reuse" enterprises on a community and commercial basis locally and regionally, providing employment and efficient waste management;
Abolishing local authority refuse charges which penalise the householder. (Household waste accounts only for less than 10 per cent of all solid waste.);
Reversing the privatisation of local authority refuse services.
The establishment of a Waste Agency responsible for the planning, financing and implementation of an all-Ireland waste management strategy, including an island-wide drive to research and establish markets for reclaimed materials;
Legislation to allow government, local authorities and other public bodies to give preference to the procurement of recycled and re-used materials;
The extension of the Plastic Bag Levy, already enacted in the 26 Counties, to the Six Counties;
A major public education programme to promote awareness of waste and resources.

by Leon Tue Feb 17, 2004 16:35

It should be possible to give the link alone.

Sinn Fein implements privatisation in Derry and condemns privatisation in Dublin.

Jean McConville was abducted and murdered by the IRA because she went to the aid of a fatally wounded British soldier outside her front door.

by Badman Tue Feb 17, 2004 17:05

It really amazes me that a literate person could mistake the above comment posted by bbf for sensible ideas. So far, it appears that the "sensible ideas" are just a lot of hot air that labour, or even FG could have written.

I mean all of the statements are along the lines of "we support a comprehensive strategy for addressing this problem" - you don't say. Wow, SF's daring in publically favourng a comprehensive strategy over a "partial unplanned muddle" really makes them stand out from the pack.

by Still Curious Tue Feb 17, 2004 17:10

This time yesterday, you proposed to map out the ten year future of SF.
Both Janus and me are still patiently waiting.

by Janus Tue Feb 17, 2004 17:53

I'm not so sure about that Badman. It proposes to abolish local authority refuse charges, something neither Labour nor FG are committed to, is opposed to privatisation of waste charges, extension of the plastic bag levy to the Six Counties, legislation to require packaging to be done in a manner aimed at reducing waste production.

I would have liked to see some hard figures, especially on the recycle and reuse enterprises being established on a community and commerical basis. This seems to imply a role for the State in setting up such enterprises and one could wonder whether this would be permitted by the EU.

It's a far more positive and comprehensive statement on waste management in Dublin than I have seen from any other party, though that is as much their weakness, as because this Charter is so amazing.

It's not bad, not setting the world on fire good, and a bit vague, but it's not meant to be a policy document I suppose and it's very good compared to the dearth of material from anyone else on the left.

6.5, maybe 7 for effort, out of 10.

by joe o'connor Wed Feb 18, 2004 00:12

now that sinn fein has surrendered their dumps to the brits, perhaps the local councils could use them.
also, if incineration is bad for ringsend ,when was it good for the le mon hotel?

by simon Wed Feb 18, 2004 00:45

a Zero Waste Strategy without mentioning prevention in the waste hierarchy is not worth the (waste) paper its written on.

It may have hoped on the well established schema relating to waste management but Im sorry but the EU and commercial interests are way ahead of you in tackling the waste issue.

Are they aware that there are already incinerators in the country dealing (on a small scale) with hazardous waste. How do they propose dealing with hazardous waste such as hospital wastes?

Recycling isnt some magic fix to waste cycles and requires much infrastructure and careful planning of production processes including reverse logistics etc. What is their relationship with industry like - the people they need to influence? Community recycling projects are an excellent idea but when you get down to the facts of large-scale recycling communities arent too keen on building factories etc.

Maybe instead of fobbing of the standard end-of-pipe solutions I would love to hear their suggestions on dealing with the real causes of waste to see if they have a clue what they are talking about.

it seems that by the time they get round to understanding waste we will be drowning in our own.

p.s. not that any of the other parties have much cop.

/end of rant

by shinner Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:23

well worth while constructive comments JOE.
Wise up would ya!

by bystander Wed Feb 18, 2004 17:18

Nice one Joe.