Is Davy Carlin a member of the SWP?

by conor mcadams Mon Mar 01, 2004 01:16

while it is fairly obvious that loyalist groups are very involved in the racist attacks in belfast,to say that racism is only a problem in this section of the community would be misleading and dangerous.even sectarian.unfortunately swastikas and other racist vandalism can be seen around belfast and im sure in the rest of the province no matter what the areas perceived political standpoint.the only way we can attempt to end this madness is by making a concerted effort as one group and putting aside sectarianism.fuck all paramilitarys,fuck all bigots!

by pat c Sat Jan 17, 2004 18:30

"The Labour Party through the TU bureacracy is as linked to the State as any NGO. "

so what? the LP has an active gay section.the revolution isnt going to happen 2moro or even next year. yes, campaigning for gay rights is necessary under capitalism. and labour are doing a better job than any of the revolutionary groups.

just remember, in the ussr, poland, china, cuba, n korea, vietnam, in all of the "workers" states, gays were criminalised and oppressed. sent to prison camps and psychiatric hospitals.

by Well Sat Jan 17, 2004 16:12

Your approach or the traditional one. SWP or non SWP?

by B'fast a Sat Jan 17, 2004 13:05

Most people in the north are aware that the SWP are a different outfit in belfast, mainly due to the local leadership of David Carlin. This has been the case for some time and the latest events would indicate that it will continue. There is no question that Davids honest approach has helped to build the SWP in Belfast into an effective,real and respected something that the swp has not acheived elsewhere.
The real issue here is, is David right in his approach to the UVF and UDA or would the more traditional position of the SWP be right in the current atmosphere of vicious attackes?

by Swivel chair socialist Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:38

I have no doubt that Davy is sincere in wanting to do something positive about racist attacks. I happen to think he is sincerely wrong if he thinks that lobbying loyalism is going to do the trick.

What interests me is, where does the SWP stand on this? We know that the SWP leadership are extremely hot on discipline. And Davy’s public activity would seem to contradict the SWP’s stated policy.

That doesn’t of course mean that he is necessarily in breach of their unstated policy. The SWP often make radical changes in their line without saying so. Take the unions. For years the SWP line was a form of syndicalist dual unionism. On paper it still is. In practice their line has changed 180 degrees over the last few years and they are now so far up the ICTU bureaucracy’s arse they are bumping into the Socialist Party.

The line on loyalism shows the same evolution. When the loyalist parties were emerging in 1995 the SWP adopted a policy of no engagement with loyalism and strongly criticised the Socialist Party and Communist Party for sharing platforms with the PUP. By 1999 the SWP in Belfast was attempting to form a “united front” with the PUP to call for extension of the Abortion Act. This change in policy was never debated or even announced. SWP members in Dublin were kept in the dark about what their comrades in the North were doing.

What I want is for the SWP to state clearly their attitude towards the PUP/UVF – has it changed and, if so, why? As Chekov says, they often come on here to answer criticism. When Des Derwin fired his broadside over the SIPTU elections, Kevin Wingfield responded not once but several times. Wingfield, Simon Basketter, Donal Mac Fhearraigh et al are uncharacteristically absent from this discussion.

The silence of the SWP is the sound of Davy being hung out to dry.

by D Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:56

Chekov you would be surprised at the times when persons state its me when its not , unique style or not, - maybe thats why its done, but I rarely respond to such, but to be honest that fusses me not as to me it does not matter about the armchair hacks critisms. As they say up here water of a ducks back, and to honest most times {although they will not like this} they just amuse me -

Chekov, for those genuine activists - In relation to John's article in relation to myself most of it is factually incorrect due to circumstances that John is unaware of due to his inactivity, as he had done in his abstract article of the firefighter march before.

As for the seasoned activitists they would fully understand, not because of the openness of the Indymedia site whom is viewed and written on by named and by anons, but because of the immediate practicilites and political reality of the immediaite situation, why I have not went into things in great detail.

That is why many of them have not responded as they know at times the brutal reality of trying to deal with a situation like this and how 'real politics' is needed to deal with such a situation..

As I have stated in the months ahead I shall write about the ARN. I believe writting later in relation to this would be understood by those who know the reality of Northern politics but it will not be understood by those whose priority lays in attacks on me or the SWP rather than seeking a way to end the brutal attacks.

In reality non activists and computer hacks can but guess, presume, take snippets from main stream media etc, with that they will in the main be wrong and more importantly it will do nothing to end the attacks.


The ARN is a collective network in which we make collective decisions. Our last meeting consisted of many organisations including 3 or 4 of the smaller politcal parties formally represented, which our immediate priority being to attempt to end the spiral of brutal attacks on the minority ethnic community.

Chekov I have come to an understanding that the more you do that the more you are attacked by those that do little - thats the nature of politics I have become used to..

So for the computer hacks and non activists I let you continue to squabble over me or the swp, for the activists well most of you will already know the facts of the situation as you or your organisations were or are part of our stand.

So while some will play their reality TV {monitor} others will attempt to deal with the reality. So of course there will be those who will rant and rave at this posting but to me their non activist based polemics are to be honest irrelevant, for the political activists though well many of them will understand why one has choosen to detail the ARN not immediately but in the time ahead.

Finally I take this opportunity to let people know that the rally because of various reasons has to be changed to lunchtime on Jan 27th at city hall. See ya there.

PS - those who are posting here in support of me, like myself I suggest we sign out, the activists know the reality of the situation, the non activist have their own reality and their proirities lay elsewhere - let them talk to each other- we though have a rally to build, D. Carlin.

by cafiero's sunbeam Fri Jan 16, 2004 03:09

This is good fun, I can't believe that the SWP would ever be opportunistic.
Even more of a surprise is some socialist democracy hack howling uselessly against the dying of the light and doing fuck all about it.

So take your pick -Join now cos we are against bad things or Comrades we must occupy Liberty hall to make sure the tide does not come in.

by Chekov Thu Jan 15, 2004 22:08

And they do all the time. It is not the anonymity that is important, it is the merit of the question. Anonymity is in many ways annoying, but it is also a poweful way of getting around problems like sexism and racism in that one can't ignore a voice based on who it is coming from. Certainly indymedia has it's problems, but there are no other open forums where one can ask questions of Irish leftist political groups and hope to get an answer.

Sure we have trolls, but much of the trolling probably comes from a small number of idiots who spend all day on the internet - so what, who cares what they say? No reader is going to be influenced by some idiot calling names, but there are often real criticisms as well which are obviously from well-informed and intelligent people. If you don't respond to this type of criticism, you look bad. Groups who simply refuse to respond to any criticism on indymedia aren't above it, they're afraid of it, afraid of the level-playing field and open nature of such forums.

For example, I think that this article is ridiculous and mostly betrays the sectarianism of the author. BUT it would have been easy for Davy to have clarified his position and given us the political reason for the appeal, instead he gave us evasions and a few new very-transparent identities (davy, your writing style is unique - try writing in short single-clause sentences if you are putting on a new identity). He ends up looking just as bad as the author of the original article and the whole thing leaves one with the impression that the SWP have something to hide with regards to their Northern policy. Maybe they don't in reality, but that's what you would think from reading this thread.

by realist Thu Jan 15, 2004 21:16

do you honestly expect and self respecting and identifiable person to come onto this site and answer questions from anonomous people?

by Swivel chair socialist Thu Jan 15, 2004 21:06

So far we have had Davy dodging bullets and a couple of his mates offering implausible and contradictory excuses.

But where is the SWP? They can publicly defend Davy and explain their new policy, or they can say that Davy's approach to the loyalist paramilitaries - which is not a new phenomenon - is contrary to SWP policy. They can't duck this - Davy is one of their members and a highly prominent self-publicising one at that. What Davy says and does reflects directly on the SWP.

Will a representative of the SWP clarify the party's position?

by LTP Thu Jan 15, 2004 18:34

The Labour Party through the TU bureacracy is as linked to the State as any NGO.
Who did they get to open the new Theatre in Liberty Hall?
Partnership Pat Partnership. Fine Gael have a very progressive stance on LGBT issues. Why not cheerlead for them, while you are at it.

by pat c Thu Jan 15, 2004 18:18

What has that got to do with this thread? Are you annoyed that Labour has an active gay section?

by Anti racist Thu Jan 15, 2004 18:14 Belfast

Actually, NICEM, the MultiCultural Resource Centre, Chinese Welfare Association and all the other ethnic minority organisations are part of the ARN. This probably has a lot to do with the decision to take the attitude it did to the UDA/UVF, a democratic decision with which people who did not agree it - which was most of the socialists at the meeting, mainly independents but including SWP - had to go along. That's democracy, folks. Suppose Davy Carlin could have resigned as chair if he felt very strongly about it but then the people in NICEM etc. did not want a rally but had to go along with THAT when agreed democratically. Maybe if those who criticise ARN were to get involved, they could help swing these arguments. Oh sorry, that would mean having to leave their computers and actually DO something.

by Lily the Pink Thu Jan 15, 2004 18:14

"I think any Socialist would accept that there is a need for Anti Racist groups which are not directly controlled by the State or NGOs which are closely related to the State through funding etc."

Bit like Labours LGBT - eh Pat?

by pat c Thu Jan 15, 2004 18:06

I wonder, because surely this would also question the existence of the various anti racism groups set up by the SP/CWI. I think any Socialist would accept that there is a need for Anti Racist groups which are not directly controlled by the State or NGOs which are closely related to the State through funding etc.

by SP Thu Jan 15, 2004 15:55

why is the ARN in existence when the N.Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities is the umbrella organisation for minority ethnic groups? Has it been set up as a rival to the work of the council?

by Rocking Chair Socialist Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:21

So now we are told by ARN that Davy wants to end Loyalist attacks on non whites. When the Shankill Butchers were busy doing what the UVF does best, the Taigs at the time opposed them, they didn't lobby them as if it was a misunderstanding.

So now, what is the SWP's position on this ?as a previous comments has asked.

by Me Thu Jan 15, 2004 08:52

Sorry walter mitty spotter wrong this time.

by Swivel chair socialist Wed Jan 14, 2004 20:47

The original question was whether or not Davy was a member of the SWP. We all know this is a rhetorical question.

What is interesting is, when Davy "engages" with loyalist paramilitaries (under one of his many hats of course), is he (a) authorised to do this by the SWP leadership or is he (b) just acting off his own bat?

If the answer is (a), then the SWP have obviously changed their policy on loyalism without admitting they have done so. You don't have to go back very far to remember SWPers blasting the Socialist Party for their "engagement" with the PUP. And rightly so.

If the answer is (b), then it would seem that the famously authoritarian leadership of the SWP have given Davy carte blanche to do or say whatever comes into his stream of consciousness. SWPers current and former who have been hauled over the coals for daring to have an opinion might not be amused at this.

Davy's attempts to weasel around the issue are of little interest. It is the SWP leadership who have some explaining to do.

by Walter Mitty spotter Wed Jan 14, 2004 18:43

I thought that Davy said he was finished with this thread? Anti-Racist Network is clearly another of Davy's imagined identities. The writing style always gives him away.

by Anti Racist Network Wed Jan 14, 2004 18:24

The attacks on Davy Carlin on a number of different sections here by the so called left are saddening. I don't know why he keeps trying to talk to some of you but I suppose he wants to stand his ground against the abuse. Just so people know and I do not know why Davy has not said this, maybe he will mention it later on in the articles he says he is to write or has not mentioned it for other reasons. As you know how in many organisations people put out press releases through press officers to respond quickly to events. The press release in question was not even sent out by Davy it was sent out by a press officer who imputed Davys name as we all do if someone is busy. So in fact they where not even Davys words but that's not to say he may not agree with them, I don't know. Again it is sad to see these attacks on a person who is putting him self forward to try and end the loyalist attacks by those who say the are lefties.

by Rcoking Chair Socialist Wed Jan 14, 2004 14:26

It may be a statistical fact the working class in Loyalist areas are most by affected by the 11 plus. No one said other wise, that is not the point. The point is what do you say to these people. That the pimps, racketeers, murderers, drug pushers at whose conference you addressed a fringe meeting etc are useful allies in that fight!!! are you serious?

As for personal attacks. Get a life Davy and re read your own comments on masturbation etc.

You still don't deal with any of the questions posed and appear to incapable of doing so. Not to worry, you yourself don't seem to be too bothered by it all.

by D Wed Jan 14, 2004 14:13

Thanks for the support. You and others like you will get a firm understanding of the situation in the time ahead when I am able to go into it in more detail. Pat C you have a firm understanding of the reality of the situation and of the immediate priorities- ie to end the brutal race hate attacks -similar to the understanding of the 25 organisations within the network and our agreed strategy - whom collectively hold vast on the ground experierence around all aspects of Northern Irish society

It is good though to see 'for the moment at least' that the overt attacks have ceased.

Pat C, I am used to such attacks from the usual suspects on the left which one expects from certain quarters. With much against us including now the personal attacks by some on the left it is good to hear someone prepared to speak out and offer that solidarity.

I know how hard it is at times to speak out or indeed to make tough decisions, but in doing so I always hold the one thought in my head -will it benefit the working class and the most vulnerable? And if that answer is yes I and others will always stand firm and speak out and do what has to be done.

Again thanks for the solidarity at this time , and again a full a/c in the time ahead will be forthcoming . I really must be going, this is my last post on this Davy Carlin

Ps to rocking chair - in relation to the 11plus it is a statistical fact that loyalist working class areas children are the worst effected, you may not like to hear that but thats the reality.

by Rocking Chair Socialist Wed Jan 14, 2004 14:11

Do I want to fight racism? Well, like Gandhi's reply to the question on British civilisation I think it would be good idea. But blinkering people about the reality of the thugs who dominate their neighbourhoods doesn't do that, it perpetuates it. If it is OK to murder taigs, killing a few blacks is only a short step. As I once heard an immigrant at an anti-racist rally say the difference between racists and murderers is one of opportunity. The UDA and UVF and their political counterparts are only gearing up on the non white population now because up until now they have been busy defending their "way of life" by murdering Taigs. That someone thinks they should be appealed to, beggars belief. When they were murdering Taigs socialists opposed them, they didn't lobby them or give them politcal legitimacy.

As for the comment on John McAnulty calling on others to join the armed struggle, me thinks you are mistaken.

by No Friend No Time Wed Jan 14, 2004 14:00

I am no friend or have no time for Davy Carlin, bit of a walter mitty! But John McAnulty! Thats the same John McAnulty who for years supported the arm struggle but didn't have the balls to join it himself. He encouraged others to go out and kill and get killed like a "hurler in the ditch".
Go on John keep lecturing Davy Carlin. I know for a fact that we won't see you around the Village or the Shankill campaigning against racism, according to you and your mates in the USFI all Protestants are racist.

by pat c Wed Jan 14, 2004 13:02

do you want to fight racism or dont you? abusing davy is not going to stop racist attacks.

by Rocking Chair Socialist Wed Jan 14, 2004 13:01

Davy, still no answers on the whole question of you exonerating gangsters. I do not know the reality of ARN so cannot comment though, it is common practice for the SWP to talk of groups like Globalise Resistence etc as independent of them when in fact they are not.

However, even if the ARN is not a front, it still begs the question as to what an SWP member is doing lobbying gangsters.

Pat C's comment about them is beyond belief, the history of the trade union movemnent in the USA and its pragmatic flirtations with the Mafia had disastrous consequences for the labor movement that are sitll being felt to this day.

Asking the UDA to clamp down on thugs because their activity is unathorised (something which has yet to be proven) only recognises the UDA as legitimate, something no socialist should be caught dead doing.

by D Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:51

'Their campaigns'? The ARN has around 25 organisations involved with only two SWP members involved with a third member helping out occassionally. The last meeting had at least 12 organisations represented. But still thats probably not good enough for those in the South or like John from the sides that will still shout 'SWP' front.

As for John points as to what the BBC teletext quotes suggest -I will as stated be writting a complete history of the ARN , an activists a/c-so then persons can draw their own conclusions in full, rather than what John does, that is to look to the BBC for an a/c as a non -activist. So Unti then - signing out much to do.

Ps don't forget the Rally jan 27th at 5pm Belfast City hall

by pat c Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:49

It looks as if some people here have forgotten nothing and learned nothing. If I was in Belfast and thought I could best fight racism in loyalist areas by lobbying the PUP and UPRG then I would also do so. This doesnt mean that I have any illusions in loyalism it just means that I am aware that some loyalists particularly in the PUP would be anti racist. Others might act against the racists because it would look good for their image. The UDA might well act against racists because it was unauthorised activity and a challenge to their authority.

Whatever.

The main point is that if Davys activities result in less racist attacks then its worthwhile. One things for sure these attacks on Davy and the SWP are not going to stop a single racist attack.

by Neill Dougan - Community Telegraph Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:36 dougann at hotmail dot com 02890264357

Davy,

I've been looking for a contact number for you as I would like to have a quick word with you for an article in the Community Telegraph re: racist attacks. Can't seem to find your number anywhere so maybe you could email me a contact number to dougann@hotmail.com or phone me on 90264357.

The sooner you could get back to me the better as my deadline is looming.

Many thanks,
Neill Dougan

by Rocking Chair Socialist Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:31

Davy, I presume the charges are political in nature and not criminal, though politically criminal they are.

Exonerating gangsters, was one term used in the original piece and all your replies indicate that you do indeed exonerate gangsters engaged in murder and thuggery. Why else would you go to their conference?

Effectively giving a platform for the attempt by these gangsters to whitewash their image, by making it seem in your appeal that somehow these people are not the thugs, pimps, rackateers and sectarian murderers that we all know so well.

by Badman Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:16

It does strike me as curious that one would appeal to the UDA leadership to deal with the racist attacks. Kind of like appealing to Hitler to get tough with anti-semitism in the Nazi party, I would have thought. It would certainly show a funny analysis if this did indeed reflect SWP policy. There can hardly be a soul in Belfast, no matter how a-political, who doesn't realise that appeals to the UDA leadership are deluded. Still, I don't give much of a shit, since nothing surprises me about the SWP any more, I've long given up trying to find sense in their politics. It seems to have boiled down to rampant and frantic opportunism. If anybody in the PD's would join one of their campaigns, I'm sure we'd start hearing pious sermons about the importance of engaging with the progressive wing of neo-liberalism. If they keep it up they 'll soon be as funny as the Sparts.

by D -SWP Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:02

To John the Vanguard

Charges?

And what is being charged your honour. All questions as far as I can see have been answered. Although please amuse me yet again..

PS, I am not 'claiming' to be the spokesperson of a local anti racist network - as I am in fact a spokesperson and the chairperson of the Anti Racism Network.

John incidently what had or what are Socialist Democracy doing about the attacks, apart from your now regular polemic attacks on those, who are mobilising, standing up and speaking out?

by Rocking Chair Socialist Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:51

Well Davy so you did go to a PUP/UVF conference albeit to speak at a fringe meeting.

Your answer that their supporters will be hard hit on the 11 plus is nonsensical. The supporters of the BNP will would also be hit. If fact take any issue and you will find that even the DUP supporters, Fianna Fail, Tories etc will have a base that will be hard hit. Socialists are supposed to try and break workers away from reactionary and in this case fascistic leadership.

Your willingness to engage with the leaders of the death squads (not challenging them DAvy but engaging with them, it is different) shows that you do actually need a lesson on the realities of the British State and loyalism etc. If you have no illusions in them, why do you call upon them to deal with those members of their ranks that may be racist. You have answered that, nor did you answer the original question put to you.

by John McAnulty - Socialist democracy Wed Jan 14, 2004 02:39

I really have no interest in arguing with Davy about his leadership of the working class in the fight against racism. I am only interested in one thing. Is he a member of the SWP?

If he is he should say so and his organisation should either hear the charges against him, which I believe are very serious, or publically defend him.

What is evident from the reponses is the total confusion on the left about loyalism, only made possible by the general ignorance and contempt for politics on the left.

by Nadia Tue Jan 13, 2004 23:05

Rocking chairs comments, may be valid 10years ago, but times have moved on, people & situations change.

Rocking chair might not have noticed that some loyalist paramilitaries have been on ceasefire for over a year, the UDA have been on ceasefire for a year and that we entered a new era of peace with the Good friday agreement.

Loyalists may have been manipulated and used by their british overlords in the past, but everyone deserves a second chance. You cannot tar all protestants with the same brush. Those responsible for racist/sectarian attacks are connected to fringe extreme right wing loyalist groups such as the LVF and the more conservative snobby old boy ulster establishment parties such as the DUP&UUP.

Racist attacks have been occuring across the board, sometimes its just bored wee kids, whose parents teach them no better, but sometimes as in the case of the Donegall rd its organised by sinister groups manipulating socially disadvantaged economic groups.

We had a racist incident in a predominantly catholic estate, where a gypsy family from down south, were continually harrassed. The harrassment was mainly from wee kids, putting into practise prejudice overheard from their ignorant turn coat taig SUN reader parents and other snobby neighbours, after the poor harmless gypsy family could take no more and left, the turncoat taig SUN reader family were in turn put out by provies. Which proves that what goes around comes around eventually.

by D. Tue Jan 13, 2004 17:26

Rocking chair I don't think I need lectured about the role of loyalists the British state
etc, but thanks for the educational imput

Why do I think that an organisation that was set up to murder and intimidate Catholics to be any different about blacks, 'I don't'.

I am unsure as to where you got the info as to who invited me to the conference, but you are wrong on that point .

Your point on illusions, in relation to such organisations I hold none.

I am a socialist, yet I spoke at a fringe / open meeting at the PUP conference on the 11Plus, {along with trade unionists and teachers from 'both communities',} and listened to by teachers, parents, trade unionists, community workers from the area, thus giving me a platform to people from a working class loyalist constituency that may not be immediately forthcoming.

The 11 plus is something that effects republican working class areas children and believe it or not even 'those' loyalist working class areas children also, {even moreso in fact}.

Rocking chair, you just don't get it, do you?

by Rocking Chair Socialist Tue Jan 13, 2004 16:35

The answer Davy is yes, all catholics are fair game for the UDA and UVF, or did we just imagine the Shankill Butchers and BIlly Hutchison convicted sectarian murderer who invited you to his conference.

Why would you expect an organisation set up to murder and intimidate Catholics to be any different about blacks?

Davy just doesn't get it. A jack boot is a jack boot.

This is not a personal attack, at least mine is not, whatever about the J McAnulty who I also believe was not engaged in personal attack. Davy belongs to an organisation that describes itlself as socialist and therefore anti-imperialist and he has illusions in the most reactionary pro imperialist organisations in the country, namely the UVF and UDA. This is the point

by Oona deathlist Tue Jan 13, 2004 15:42

Thats not a picture of Davy Carlin its a picture of neo nazi goon/scumbag/smack/crack/sectarian murderer Johnny Adair. Davy Carlin is mixed race, whereas Johnny adair is a purely white gobshite.
We all have our personal opinions of Davy Carlin, hogging the headlines, hijacking SP meetings etc. But he's not that bad apart from being a member of the SWP.

by babsdebrawl Tue Jan 13, 2004 15:29

Why have you got a photo of ugly neo nazi goon/scumbag/smack/crack pusher/sectarian murderer Johnny Adair in your article?. Surely you can't idolise that monster.

by D Tue Jan 13, 2004 14:57

Rocking chair - blacks, chinese catholic, protestant or not - 'no'

Anti drug activists -'ask them'

by Anti drug activist Tue Jan 13, 2004 14:30

What exactly is the position of the 26-co SWP in relation to all of this. Surely RBB or Joe Carolan must have something to say on this. I would imagine they at least recognise the need for some "damage limitation'.

by rocking chair socialist Tue Jan 13, 2004 14:06

Davy failes to answer any questions while he engages in a lot vective against someone for doing what seems to come natural to Davy, masturbation.

Basically, Davy I would like to know in addition to the questions posed here at the begining of the thread, when you next address a PUP/UVF conference will you accept from Billy Hutchison and company that it is ok to attack blacks and chinese etc if they are catholic.

It is just a possible excuse that they will come up with for yet another encroachment on their "British" way of life.

by ? Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:54

used once to often Davy!

by Davy Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:54

John is as abstract as ever. The armchair polemic of a non activist and his almost masturbatory fixation with myself is amusing.
John's polemic this time last year was as abstract, after watching him run up and down the march {falls and shankill march} falling over his laces in an attempt to take pictures of the march, he then attempted to give a polemic on it in which he played absolutely no part {this amusing episode can be read on the Blanket {related link} under the title -West Belfast childhood and the wars}

I have stated since that I will not engage in armchair non activist masturbatory polemics against one self but must state that similiarly in relation to this John again has played absolutely no role what so ever in attempting to combat these attacks, only {as usual} to attempt to critise activists

I will say though for this site that I will be doing a two part piece on the detailed experience of the Anti Racism Network in the months ahead that will give the entire picture of the history of the network, including press releases records of interviews etc. As the spokesperson of a network of twenty five organisations including all the major minority organisations in the North we collectively have a firm understanding of what is going on, and with that have many on the ground strategies to attempt to combat the raise of incidents. With these continual attacks it is the networks members that at times have to deal with the brutal situation on the ground and not from the comfort of an armchair.

John is so abstract and detached from what is going on that he has obvoiusly not even read the numerous statements by the ARN or even the newpapers.

As for who is involved the ARN statements are clear as to loyalist involvement as for myself John don't rely on selected snippets from the British Broadcasting corporation {BBC}Teletext services. Are loyalist involved yes have the ARN stated this yes have I stated this yes.

Revolutionary sects, abstract polemics, armchair critisms and masturbatory poltics are not going to end these attacks. Such detached non activist polemics I have growing accustomed to, but what is important here is the larger picture, as I stated while John can continue his armchair masturbatory polemics, activists on the ground have tasked themselves with various strategies to attempt to combant the attacks. With that we have called for large scale street mobilisation as part of that strategy, with trade unions, working class communites, minortity ethnic organisations and many others. So on that......

I would urge people to actively support the march and rally called by the ARN to begin at the city hall on the 27th on Jan at 5pm. Book transport and lets together take to the streets in a visual stand aganist the racists.

Signing of as an awful lot to do Davy

by Mike Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:15

Well, if as suggested the author knows that Davy Carlin is a member of the SWP. Could the SWP answer one question. is it their opinion that the UVF and UDA are not racist organisations and that only a few bad apples are to blame.

Of course Davy Carlin would have to claim that they are not racist. For years they ran around shouting no platform for racists and now as the article says DAvy gets and speaks on a racist platform, namely the UVF/PUP platform

by Don't be so hasty Mon Jan 12, 2004 20:48

It is clearly a piece of analysis (not one I agree with by the way) that happens to be phrased in the form of a question.

Therefore it shouldn't be deleted - although I suppose that editing it to make the "question" into a statement of fact might be appropriate.

As I would guess the writer of the original piece knows, Davy Carlin is a member of the SWP.

by Spam deleter Mon Jan 12, 2004 20:26

It is a question, not a news report, press release, report of an event or even an opinion as such, and therefore it should be deleted. Delete! Delete! Delete!