Reclaim the Streets Open Meeting

by Seáinín Thu Aug 14, 2003 00:07

Are ye planning on smashing any windows this year?

It's a great way to get your message accross. Smash a window for a better world. Break a window for a better world.

Nice.

by Canteen Kevin Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:01

Little John again you're snapping away with your conservative reactionary agenda. What windows were broken last year and by whom? If you count all demos held in Dublin last year, I doubt if any windows were broken by RTS. (I was tempted to do the PDs head office at the anti-war march but they had a stater on the door - conscious of their popularity). Your window fetish doesn't seem to extend to ordinary window smashing, if 100,000 windows were smashed last year, you can bet almost all were smashed by good old consumers of capitalist intoxicating fluids.

Give your right wing bullshit a break for a better world

by Mr Angry Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:47

Maybe you could ask the little pricks who were spraying graffiti to refrain from doing so

by Badman Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:57

Ask the big pricks who cover every conceivable surface with obnoxious, dishonest, sexist, racist, capitalist advertisements to stop and we'll see about the grafitti.

by Me! Thu Aug 14, 2003 13:36

That rascist advertising is EVERYWHERE!!!

by Badman Thu Aug 14, 2003 14:01

It's the subtle things like the way African skins are always lightened if they are being presented as attractive, hair is straightened, features softened and 'caucasianised'. Sexist advertising creates (or at least seriously amplifies) problems like anorexia and bulimia. Racist advertising brings about phenomena like mercury soap and other disfiguring beauty products.

It is less noticeable here than in most countries as the population is still overwhelming pasty-faced and therefore you scoff in your ignorance. But luckily you have badman to explain the big bad world and all its mysteries for you.

by Spitfire Mk III Thu Aug 14, 2003 14:16

Offensive Ads and how to complain
see item 1) for racist advertising

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Decisions of the Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland June 2002:

1) Budweiser: "The Frogs won last time. Please, not again" - Advertising causing offence

A poster advertisement for Budweiser was the subject of an objection. The poster showed a picture of the World Cup Trophy and a Lizard with the caption "The Frogs won last time. Please, not again". The complaint was that it was offensive and racist to French people.

The advertisers said the campaign featuring frogs and lizards was a long running and popular one. The poster in question used the success of the French football team in the last World Cup as an in-joke between the frogs and lizards. They said they had not received any complaints to date and that the posters were widely acknowledged as being harmless humour and that the use of nicknames was standard practice amongst football fans.

The complaint was however upheld. The ASAI said that ads should respect the dignity of all people and not subject them to ridicule or offensive humour. The term "frogs" was one which was sometimes used in a derogatory manner to describe French people and as such was in contravention of the Code.

2) Carlsberg: Ireland wins World Cup dream - under age drinking

A TV commercial by Carlsberg was the subject of objections. It showed scenes from Irish soccer matches and featured Irish soccer stars Robbie Keane and Jason McAteer. The featured a dream sequence which showed Ireland winning the World Cup. The complaints were that Robbie Keane was under 25 years of age and Jason McAteer would appeal to teenagers.

The advertisers said it had never occurred to them that Robbie Keane's age would be a problem. They viewed the ad as a football sponsorship communication. While the ad stated that Carlsberg was the "Official beer to the Irish team" it did not imply that Irish fans or the Irish team exclusively drink it or that it contributed to player performance in any way. The commercial had no pub scenes or drinking scenes whatsoever. The only involvement of the individual players was in the football scenes. They also pointed out that Jason McAteer was a 30 year old father of one and unlikely to be a person who minors would strongly identify with.

The complaint was partly upheld. The ASAI Code states that anyone depicted in alcohol advertisements should be over 25 and clearly appear to be over 25. The idea is to prevent ads for alcohol from appealing to minors to avoid encouraging underage drinking. The ASAI Committee felt that while it was a sponsorship communication this advertisement went beyond went beyond advertising the sponsorship. They understood that while the advertisers had intended to keep within the Code the fact that Robbie Keane was under 25 meant that the complaint should be partly upheld. The complaint about Jason McAteer's involvement was not upheld.



3) McDonalds: World Cup Red & Yellow Cards Promotion - humorous or offensive
advertising?

Two TV commercials for McDonalds were the subject of complaints. McDonalds were running a World Cup promotion where customers receive a yellow or red card and could win a prize if the team printed on it won the World Cup. In both ads a person receiving one of these cards with the name of one country on it attempted to aid that country by taking action against players from other teams. This included for example setting a dog on English soccer star Rio Ferdinand in one ad or tampering with the brakes of a player's car in another. Complaints included that the ad upset children and were offensive in view of the high number of car accidents in Ireland.

The advertisers said that the ads were supposed to portray humorous but over the top scenes where a consumer has to cheer for a country which they would not normally support. The ads were targeted at over-18's and children could not participate in the promotion. They said having regard to the graphic ads for road traffic accidents on television they failed to see how their ads could be viewed as worse then these.

The complaints were not upheld. The Committee noted that the ads were supposed to be humorous and while concerned about their presentation they did not feel that the ads encouraged dangerous practices or would cause widespread offence.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From ASAI site

http://www.asai.ie/selfregulation/how.htm

If you object to a commercial advertisement on TV, radio, internet, posters, brochures, newspapers, magazines, cinema, direct mailings, etc., or to sales promotional material, write to us by letter, fax or e-mail with your full name and address and also stating or giving as far as you can:

a copy of the advertisement, (i.e. press, magazine, etc)


when and where it appeared


the name of the advertiser


in the case of sales promotions, the name of the product and the promoter and copies of labels, leaflets or entry forms


why you consider the advertising to be wrong


whether you are objecting as an individual consumer or as a competitor.


Complaints are investigated free of charge and the identity of individual consumer complaints remains confidential.

Our address is:-

The Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland,
IPC House,
5-39 Shelbourne Road,
Dublin 4.

Phone: (01) 6608766
Fax: (01) 6608113
Email: info@asai.ie

by Cleaver Thu Aug 14, 2003 14:34

I agree with Mr. Angry, spray painting walls promoting the RTS is a stupid idea. If one of the aims of RTS is to improve the urban environment I'm all for it but the graffiti around promoting events that happened almost 2 years ago looks crap.
You can dodge the point by giving out about advertising billboards, why not spray paint over them instead of on walls?

by Cleaver Thu Aug 14, 2003 14:35

I agree with Mr. Angry, spray painting walls promoting the RTS is a stupid idea. If one of the aims of RTS is to improve the urban environment I'm all for it but the graffiti around promoting events that happened almost 2 years ago looks crap.
You can dodge the point by giving out about advertising billboards, why not spray paint over them instead of on walls?

by Subvertise Thu Aug 14, 2003 15:05

as Cleaver rightly says use the billboards and the brains we've been given. Subvertise...

by Objective opinion - none Thu Aug 14, 2003 15:51

I believe it is in the spirit of the 'oraganisation' to do a little spraypainting if only to upset the establishment from which you hope to reclaim the streets from, they are not going to get upset by the sight of you all protesting for a day and stopping traffic. The SWP could do that if they wanted to and their useless beggers.

by Sister Wendy Thu Aug 14, 2003 16:15

http://stencilrevolution.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1187&papass=&sort=1

by Cleaver Thu Aug 14, 2003 16:16

The idea of RTS, I think, is not about upsetting people its about presenting an option, livable urban space without cars or whatever, scrawling your message all over the walls does not add anything, in fact I reckon it goes against what rts should be about.
(I'm not talking about all graffiti just the rubbish stuff thats been up for ages advertising RTS events that are long gone)
If you have to graffiti fair play, but be a bit fucking creative and think of the people who have to look at it every day!

by Badman Thu Aug 14, 2003 16:42

looking at concrete walls every day is so much more fun.

by SWP PEACE BE WITH U ! Thu Aug 14, 2003 17:10

Ray: cut-and-pasted article cut
anyone interested can read it here:
http://www.marxists.de/religion/rose/jesus.htm

by Seáinín Thu Aug 14, 2003 19:14

If an advertisement is offensive, enough complaints will get it removed. Graffiti is ugly, means nothing to anyone except the person who scrawled it and is difficult to remove.

As for the racist skin colour thing, lighten up for fucks sake!

by bernays Fri Aug 15, 2003 00:59

The offensiveness of outdoor media and posters in general is not just their content but their pervasiveness, they are everywhere and the planning laws dont seem too effective at curbing them, the use of any community space for putting forward alternative ideas is not an option, the odd bit of postering or graffitti is the only option left open to a non profit organisation. Its not like the odd rts poster or graffitti causes as much litter or ugliness as election time by the main political parties or the constant clutter in our lives caused by the rest of outdoor advertising. As for seanin your lighten up pun was spectacular, are you a copywriter, because you certainly arent intelligient enough to write something more worthy of out attention. go on spot my typos. bernays indeed.

by simon Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:02

I think Seanin is missing the nature of the offence. I think your speaking to get a reaction before thinking again.

http://adbusters.org

http://www.subvertise.org

http://depts.washington.edu/ccce/polcommcampaigns/CultureJamming.htm

http://www.urbanize.org

i could go on with the links. but these might get your juices going Seanin. ;)

By the way I agree that most of the painting is of a poor quality but maybe something like urbanise.org will show how a bit of creativity can go a long way........

by iosaf the ipsiphi - reading and learning. Sat Aug 16, 2003 15:01

for RTS folk in Ireland why not do a stencil/graffiti mural group workshop?
Give the younger inept graffiti dudes and dudettes a standard to aim for! I am rightfully proud of my line "The writing is on the wall leave it there!" but @ times I do get cross, such as the other night when at about three of the morning clock I heard the telltale hsssss of an aerosole spray below my balcony here in graffiti resplendent Barcelona. I looked over and saw two visitors from the USA covering one of the local collectives mural with silver paint preparing a crap tag of "CLA!" whatever that means. Anyway I remostrated with these yankee vistors and brought them on a short tour pointing out that much of the graffiti goes beyond "tagging"(names) and touches on semiotic exchange, contemporary urban culture, subversion of capitalist advertising and indeed that some of the older pieces have been left unpainted for a period of four years, being accepted by "wall owners" as a true expression of their community's hopes and fears....[I'm beginning to go YFG councillor in tone] oh yes hopes and fears, and communal spirit.

Anyway, murals are best done with an idea pre-planned, and in one night with a few artists working together. Name tags are egotist and went out of coolness in Manhatten at least by 92. Stencils are the best, they look good, and get the message accross. The walls are "common urban space" THINK before you use that space.

And I at least think that "etching" of glass is utterly pointless and certainly vandalism, glass windows are made to be transparent, and make your train journey pleasanter. Don't go effing that up.

by democrat Sun Aug 17, 2003 18:40

Who called this meeting? Who gave that person/those people the power to call meetings?

What about people that cannot attend? Can they send proxy votes?

When decisions are made who implements them? And who oversees the implementation of decisions?

by Chekov Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:31

1. Who called this meeting?

Those people who have been involved in organising previous RTS events and who want to organise another one.

2 Who gave that person/those people the power to call meetings?

Themselves. I know it might be a strange concept to some, but people can act on their own responsibility. RTS has no leadership, therefore anybody involved has the power to call meetings. Naturally when meetings are called, it is usual for the person who wants to hold the meeting to contact the people who have been formerly involved to seek their input and although the communication is not perfect, it works sufficently well that there have never been any serious internal recriminations over lack of consultation. Every time that RTS posts a notice for a meeting on indymedia, there are questions of this type, and allegations of secret leaderships from people who have never been involved in RTS. There have never been any such allegations from anybody who has ever been involved, why not come along and find out for yourself?

3 What about people that cannot attend? Can they send proxy votes?

If they have formerly been involved in RTS they can get in touch with somebody who is going to attend and ask them to raise any matters that they might have. RTS effectively works on consensus as there have never been any votes to my knowledge, so proxy votes don't come into play. If they have never been involved and can't attend the meeting, RTS can hardly cater for them. RTS is democratic in that the people who are involved make the decisions and it would be very anti-democratic if they had to follow the decisions of people who have never been involved. In any case this is only the first open meeting to plan for car free day and there will be more meetings in the run up to the day. People can get involved later if they are happy with the plans that have been formulated at previous meetings and want to help out with their implementation. Since there is no formal membership, people who are unhappy with various decisions can (and do) choose not to get involved in particular events.

4 When decisions are made who implements them?

Volunteers. When RTS decides to do something, people volunteer to do various bits of work. If nobody volunteers the plan gets ditched.

5 And who oversees the implementation of decisions?

Everybody involved. In the run up to RTS events there are normally weekly meetings. At these meetings all of those involved assess what has been done and what remains to be done and re-allocate tasks and seek new volunteers if necessary. It actually happens pretty frequently that people fail to fulfill their commitments due to inexperience, over-commitement, or whatever, so much of the work at RTS meetings involves division of tasks.

RTS may have some problems, but a lack of democracy is not one of them. If you ever go to an RTS meeting, you will be amazed at how open and democratic they are. Certainly, with any RTS, there are certain people who put in a lot more work than others, and consequently have a bigger say in practice on what happens on the day, but this is just a factor of how much they put in. It is also notable that these people change with each event so that there has been a constantly changing group of people centrally involved in planning these events, alongside an ever growing number of people who help out in various smaller ways.

So, democrat, I hope that answers your questions. I also hope that you are genuine in your love for democracy, and not some Trotskyist shit-stirrer who cares not a whit for democracy but likes sniping at any group that you can not control. Unfortunately this is where most of the 'democratic' critique of RTS seems to come from.